No Pension Increase [Archive]

Old-Duffer

14th Apr 2010, 15:45

I feel so proud to be allowed to contribute a further 21p/month towards clearing the National Debt. I have still to work out how long it will be before I've settled the whole £179 billion but then I intend to splash out and buy an ice-cream and to hell with the consequences of my profligacy.

jpboy

14th Apr 2010, 15:47

Former Colleagues,

Be on your guard here.

Without wishing to spread unfounded fear I know from the comments of current civvie workmates that the public sector pension is something they simply cannot get their heads around. No argument of through life loss of earnings compared with pure civvie, comparable careers or that it was the deal when we joined sways them from their fundamental baseline that the current system is unfair and cannot continue.

I predict that a/all political parties will in the near future use senior civil service high earnings pensions as the example of why public sector pensions have to be cut. The review that would follow will include the Armed Forces scheme as, "After all are our brave squaddies any braver than our brave nurses/firefighters etc?", an argument I heard recently. Any review in the current climate will lead to cuts.

There may be some sympathy in principle but as I post several major companies are facing industrial action over management plans to cut pension rights not only to new joiners but to those allready employed on current high cost schemes.

I am no pension lawyer and post to make you aware of the ill feeling from many in the private sector who are having their pensions torn apart.

I say again, be on your guard.

A2QFI

14th Apr 2010, 16:54

I am already drawing 3 state pensions, one on the grounds of age and two from employment. No Government had better think of reducing any pension of mine which I am currently drawing. I shall withold my taxes and get B&B and free TV in one of those nice prisons that surround me in the East Midlands! They can mess about with pensions to come, if they dare to try, but they'd better not try it with pensions already in payment!

jpboy

14th Apr 2010, 17:25

A2QFI,

I believe you can relax in your above averageness. My understanding is that those of us already drawing an Armed Forces pension are safe from any changes.

However, those in employment having signed up with the promise of a stated pension are not exempt from having that pension changed prior to their retirement. There are lots of issues that need to be in place before a scheme can be closed down but it is happening across the private sector. Recent examples include long serving employees having final salary schemes pulled from beneath them (financial sector) and money purchase schemes having their benefits redefined (airline industry). As I said, despite sharing your A2 background, I am not an expert on this merely a very interested participant who is watching his civvie street pension T&Cs being threatened.

The Forces pension would cost a fortune to match in civvie street hence envious eyes being cast. I believe it to be a hard earned right and whilst those serving cannot strike they can lobby their MP's and support The Forces Pension Society (http://www.forpen.org/); no I don't get a penny in case you were wondering!

I honestly believe there is a battle coming that could adversely impact the future financial security of all those currently serving. It is one that is being lost by many of your countrymen in civvie street.

Watch your 6.

endplay

14th Apr 2010, 19:37

Neither my wife nor my eldest son, both employed in the private sector, have had a pay rise in the last 2 years. With the current state of the economy it is hardly surprising that those of us on pensions should have to bear some of the cost of bankers bonuses.

AARON O'DICKYDIDO

14th Apr 2010, 19:39

;)

I feel proud to donate 20p per month from my service pension.

If that is what it takes to bring down the national debt!

Gnd

14th Apr 2010, 19:59

Talk Reaction

14th Apr 2010, 22:13

There are many difficult to swallow changes to come I guess but I reckon our pensions are secure. Why? Because no arm of the services could afford to lose the huge numbers of experienced officers and sncos who would be most affected, ie those who are giving a last few years for pension rights. Equally, I think new entrants in the very near future will see a markedly different pension scheme, with no 'is AFP75 better than 05' type deliberations (for the 6 people to whom that applied).

That said, I guess anythings possible. Dare I say it, we have to trust the government to see the whole picture and not a quick save...... oh :\

Army Mover

15th Apr 2010, 06:20

I'm in receipt of my service pension; but didn't get a cut - why did you guys/girls get one - are they coming to get me? :eek:

Pete268

15th Apr 2010, 06:57

My Service Pension stayed the same as well.

Also my War Disablement Pension increased by 1.5%, but I'm not getting carried away with it as this years rise (bribe) is actually an advance payment of next years increase brought forward by 12 months (a bit of trickery by the Chancellor just before a General Election, not that I'm cynical or anything!!).

Peter

charliegolf

15th Apr 2010, 08:56

I do not get the private sector, all smug when they are screwing the public gaining profits then when they go impotent, they whinge. When the economy picks up will they give us the 25% increases and bonuses they get in the good times??

I bet they forget that part of the deal - stop bitching and sign up if you have the guts!!!!

Gnd: Bus drivers, shop assistants in tesco, labourers in the car and steel works; are all private sector workers. You including them too?

CG

jpboy

15th Apr 2010, 09:02

Gnd

Bit harsh on civvies. The bonuses you are talking about would apply to only a few in the private sector. For a more realistic picture of what is happening type in "pension fund collapse" into google and you'll get a taste of the worries facing the majority of hard working individuals.

Talk Reaction

You remind me of my naive youth and answering questions at Biggin Hill selection with, "I think we just have to trust the Government on this issue", happy days! I agree with your cynicsm. Losing senior officers or saving billions reorganising pensions across the public sector and injecting the economy, what would you chose?

I never thought the Berlin Wall would come down or that communism would collapse in my lifetime much less fighting wars in Afghanistan or the Middle East. The pace of change seems to get ever faster, suppose I'm getting old! That pace of change in the financial sector has accelerated in the last few devestating years for pensions. Public sector lags behind but gets all the changes in one big bucket of happiness.

Keep an eye civvie street for the changes occurring in the pensions market, I hope you will be safe.

c130jbloke

15th Apr 2010, 09:52

If you have not done so, then I would strongly recommend joining Forpen - there is a link at post #7. For 23 quid a year, when the next govt tries to pull the rug on pensions you will be at least be part of a group who will fight tooth and nail to protect your interests.

If nothing else, the membership offers they have, cancel out the annual fee so in some ways its a no brainer :8

Doctor Cruces

15th Apr 2010, 11:46

Haven't heard anyhing at all yet from anyone about either my Service Pension or my War pension. I figure I'll just have to keep guessing.

However, they are already after my future Local Government Pension. I already pay more in and get less out at the end than when I joined it five years ago. The LGPS actualy makes more money per year from investments etc than it pays out in pensions, but we're still unaffordable according to several Tory bigwigs and the daily mail.

Not only that, but it invests billions in UK companys as well, giving jobs and much needed capital that the banks don't seem to want to part with just now.

To, perhaps, ease people's minds, our pension provider has told us that if (when) they totally screw us over (I'm paraphrasing here, of course) under the law they cannot reduce any benefit we have already accrued, that must remain intact. It can only apply to future benefit. So, if one has 20 years of Final Salary Pension schemem membership, they can't take that from you, just modify the future benefit.

Hope that helps.

Doc C

cazatou

15th Apr 2010, 12:29

Doc C

Your #17

I feel that what you should have said is :-

"As the Law stands."

Mr Brown has shown he is not averse to changing the Law to accommodate his whims.

MightyGem

15th Apr 2010, 17:34

Our pension increase is linked to the rate of inflation from the previous September. From Hansard, January this year:
Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what effect the negative level of retail price index inflation in September 2009 will have on the level of armed forces pensions in the next 12 months. [309734]

Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 11 January 2010]: Public service pension upratings are linked by primary legislation to those for additional state pensions, such as the state second pension, and the uprating in April 2010 will take account of the rate of inflation over the year to September 2009. As announced at the pre-Budget report 2008, legislation governing uprating for additional state pensions means that in the event of a negative Retail Price Index (RPI), benefit rates will be protected at least in nominal terms (i.e. not reduced on account of deflation), thereby providing an increase in support in real terms. The RPI change for September 2009 was minus 1.4 per cent., therefore benefits will remain at current levels.

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 19 Jan 2010 (pt 0001) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100119/text/100119w0001.htm)

IIRC the rise last year(2009) was above the inflation rate of April, due to the higher rate the previous Sptember. Swings and roundabouts.

Pete268

15th Apr 2010, 18:28

Doc C,

Re your War Pension, From HoC Hansard for 24th February 2010:

War Pensions (Uprating)

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Kevan Jones): The new rates of war pensions and allowances proposed from April 2010 are set out in the tables below. The annual uprating of war pensions and allowances for 2010 will take place from the week beginning 12 April. To provide additional support to households during the early stages of economic recovery, the 2009 pre-Budget report announced that the Government will bring forward a proportion of the increases expected in April 2011 a year earlier, thereby providing a 1.5 per cent. increase for those benefits normally uprated by RPI.

Gobbledygook meaning 1.5% this April to be then taken out of next years rise.

The actual new War Pension rates are listed here:

http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/publications/va_leaflets/valeaflet9.pdf

Peter

Gnd

16th Apr 2010, 09:08

CG,

If the Bus drivers, shop assistants in tesco, labourers in the car and steel works get big wage increases and bonuses in the good times then moan in the bad then yes!

Remember they can strike to decrease their wages and do not get 6 month jollies with added fireworks - you know where sympathy lies???

charliegolf

16th Apr 2010, 09:57

If the Bus drivers, shop assistants in tesco, labourers in the car and steel works get big wage increases and bonuses in the good times then moan in the bad then yes!

Gnd, perhaps I should have written in bigger crayon: THOSE WORKERS DON'T GET BIG INCREASES, OR BIG BONUSES!. They are not fat cats, so I don't get your drift. They get poor pensions too, by the way.

CG

Bladdered

16th Apr 2010, 12:06

GND, so where are you going to work when you leave?

Well said CG - I left 4 years ago, work for a succesful private sector company but have only had one pay rise in that period (that goes for everyone else in the Company too). If you think its green out here in private sector land - it aint, but at least I have a job at the moment and a pension just in case.

Gnd

16th Apr 2010, 20:07

No work for me, on PA and wife is rich!!! Might work in Wickes just for the staff discount on the paint for my mansion? (under 1 million so no inheritance problem either)

What I actually said was private sector with 25% increases and big bonuses - so - if the what ever occupation you chose to cloud the reply with get the above then - again - yes. If they don't I guess to normal people it stands to reason that they are NOT included in my distain?
Any other clarification? It is those that are in my tight and predictable bracket that seem to moan like union bosses or marginal politicians.

sisemen

19th Apr 2010, 03:02

All this talk of no pensions increase is total rubbish. In April of each year I generally get an increase - and this year was no exception.

So, it's Champagne for everyone.

The increase was a grand total of 1p! And that's a 0.000656 % rise.

Feel tempted to send it back to help UK plc get over its massive debt problems.