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icebox
27th Dec 2001, 20:41
There must be someone out there who can help me.

I went for an Initial Class 1 medical at Gatwick, and unfortunatley failed the colour vision tests, both plates and lantern.
I went for a 2nd opinion and found out that I am slightly green deficient.
I was told, however, that different JAA states offer different colour vision tests apart from the HW lantern test and that I would more than likely pass the advanced colour tests in France.
Two questions immediatley arise;
1. Is this true?
2. Are there any restrictions/limitations of a UK applicant going to another JAA state to have this done?

I know that if I go Stateside I may get a Class 1 unrestricted but I've been told that that would limit me to US airspace only.

The person who tested me at Gatwick told me they maybe getting the colour test equipment that France use and I maybe able to apply again. So what's to stop me from going to France to get the test done there?
This whole colour vision thing is outdated and ludicrous.

Please can anyone help me??

Ps Long live Arthur Pape!!!!
E-mail [email protected]

bosher
30th Dec 2001, 23:29
I too was told that I was green deficient 10 years ago.
I had to instruct for years as I could only get an old class two (JAR class1 restricted) medical

This summer I went to Switzerland and did their colour vision test and passed!!!

I took the letter to Gatwick and dispite failing their Lantern and plates years ago, they issued me with a completly unrestricted Class 1 medical

GOD BLESS JAR!!!!! :) :) :) :)

gijoe
31st Dec 2001, 01:39
Ice,

As I said in my e's, where's there's a will....

Bosher - did the CAA say they would let you train in the UK and issue you with a JAA licence from CAA house?

[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: gijoe ]</p>

bosher
31st Dec 2001, 01:53
YES
They gave me a JAR unrestricted class 1

Which removed all the restrictions on my national licences.
I believe it would also work on a new JAR Licence

Good Luck

The swiss colour test is much easier than the British. I went from colour "unsafe" to 100%

gijoe
31st Dec 2001, 15:22
Bosher - thats great to hear. Have you got any contact details for the Swiss place that you got the test done at ?

email is [email protected]. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I know Ice would be very interested as well.

GiJoe <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

N2334M
29th Jan 2002, 16:46
Hi bosher, what kind of test did you take in Swiss Medical Centre ? Where they able to speak English ?

Did you take a lanterntest or a Anomaloscope test ?

How long did it take to remove the limitations from you JAR medical ?

I would like to contact you by email, could you please provide your email ? Mine is: [email protected]

I would need some details of your situation, because I am in the same boat as you were some time ago...

Thanks a lot if you would answer. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

TAHIDA
29th Jan 2002, 17:46
BOSHER,. .I AM IN EXACTLY THE SAME POSITION AS YOU WERE.. .CAN YOU PLEASE POST THE CONTACT NAME AND ADDRESS IN SWITZERLAND?. .WHICH LANTERN DID YOU PASS?. .WAS IT THE SPECTROLUX?. .HOW MANY COLOURS WERE THERE?

WELL DONE!

TAHIDA

inverted flatspin
29th Jan 2002, 21:22
Icebox the FAA 1st class medical (including the signal light practical test) is in full compliance with ICAO You will not be limited to US airspace. N reg aircraft is the only limitation and there are more N reg aircraft than all the others put together. The JAA's position on this and many other medical issues is way behind current best practice. If all these colour deficient pilots (there are at least 8000 in the US) were unsafe how come they are operating safely all over the world including flying for US airlines into and out of Europe?

Recently in the light of Accident experience or more accuratley lack of accident experience (stretching back to 1934) the FAA dropped the requirement for a waiver or as it was officially called A SODA. Now if you fail all other tests and pass the signal light test you are issued with a letter of evidence stating that you meet the standards. this letter is good for life.

The main issue here is the actual testing. All the plate tests and the lantern tests like the holmes wright and the farnsworth do not actually measure what you are seeing they measure 'how' you are seeing it. The colours presented are not red or green but are carefully arranged to be confused by individuals who are even slightly colour deficient. Based on the ishihara test I am unable to tell the difference between red and green, How then was I able to tell the FAA inspector the correct sequence of colours at a distance of 1500ft? the answer is simple the signal light test actually presented me with red and green and white, the ishihara test uses different shades of complimentary colours and the lantern tests use carefully selected wavelenths that are for instance reddish green and greenish red also the holmes wright lantern when it presents white light presents a greenish white specially to identify Green deficient persons.

In the real world red is red green is green and white is white.

icebox
29th Jan 2002, 22:30
Inverted flatspin,

Thank you for your reply.

The CAA have just received a new piece of colour vision testing equipment - the Beyne Lantern. It is currently being tested. If I can re-apply and take this test I will.

I have spoken to a colour vision specialist who basically said the same as you. The various colour vision tests measure how you are seeing things - which is fundamentally wrong.

I have two questions for you;

1. What are N registered aircraft?

2. If I fail this new test in the UK, what is the best way for a UK citizen to apply for a FAA medical and can you recommend any good flight schools?

Regards. .Ice

inverted flatspin
30th Jan 2002, 03:26
Icebox N-reg aircraft are US registered.

To get your FAA medical is easy. You can look up from the FAA website the address of an FAA approved examiner in your area, I believe Dr Ian Perry is FAA approved in London.

Next step is to go and do your medical.

If you fail the Colour test administered in the doctors office then you will still get the medical, it will however say "not valid for night flight or by color signal control" (this applies to all classes of medical)

The next step is to find an optometrist or optician who has a large battery of colour vision tests try them all and who knows you may pass one of them. Here is a list of tests accepted by the FAA.

--------------------------------------------------. .Pseudoisochromatic plates. (American Optical Company [AOC], 1965 edition; AOC-HRR, 2nd edition; Dvorine, 2nd edition; Ishihara, 14-, 24- or 38-plate editions; or Richmond, 1983 edition, 1 5-plates).

Acceptable substitutes:

Farnsworth Lantern

Keystone Orthoscope.

Keystone Telebinocular.

LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester.

OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester (Model Nos. 2000PM, 2000PAME, and 2000PI).

Titmus Vision Tester.

Titmus 11 Vision Tester (Model Nos. Tll and TIIS).

Titmus 2 Vision Tester Model Nos. T2A and T2S).

Techniques

The test plates to be used for each of the approved pseudoisochromatic tests are: Test Edition Plates . .AOC 1965 1/15 . .AOC-HRR 2nd 1/11 . .Dvorine 2nd 1/15 . .Ishihara 14-plate 1/11 . .Ishihara 24-plate 1/15 . .Ishihara 38-plate 1/21 . .Richmond 1983 1/15

. .The following conditions should be ensured when testing with pseudoisochromatic plates:

The test book should be held 30 inches from the applicant.

Plates should be illuminated by at least 20-foot candles, preferably by a Macbeth Easel Lamp or a Verilux True Color Light (F1 5T8VLX).

Three seconds should be allowed for the applicant to interpret and respond to a given plate.

. .Testing procedures for the Farnsworth Lantern; Keystone; LKC Technologies, Inc.; OPTEC 2000, Titmus, Titmus II, and Titmus 2 Vision Testers accompany the instruments.

The results (normal or abnormal) should be recorded.

DISPOSITION. .An applicant does not meet the color vision standard if testing reveals:

. .All Classes

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the AOC (1965 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.

AOC-HRR (second edition): Any error in test plates 7-11. Because the first 4 plates in the test book are for demonstration only, test plate 7 is actually the eleventh plate in the book. (See instruction booklet).

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of Dvorine pseudoisochromatic plates (second edition, 15 plates).

Six or more errors on plates 1-11 of the concise 14-plate edition of the Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Nine or more errors on plates 1-21 of the 38-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates.

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the Richmond (1983 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.

Farnsworth Lantern test: An average of more than one error per series of nine color pairs in series 2 and 3. (See instruction booklet).

Any errors in the six plates of the Titmus Vision Tester, the Titmus II Vision Tester, the Titmus 2 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester, the Keystone Orthoscope, or Keystone Telebinocular.

LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester: The letter must be correctly identified in at least two of the three presentations of each test condition. (See APT-5 screening chart for FM-related testing in instruction booklet).

Certificate Limitation. .If an applicant fails to meet the color vision standard as interpreted above but is otherwise qualified, the Examiner may issue a medical certificate bearing the limitation:

NOT VALID FOR NIGHT FLYING OR BY COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL.. .--------------------------------------------------

If you pass one of these tests have the eye doctor report this to the FAA.

Then a few weeks later you will recieve an unrestricted medical and a letter of evidence stating that you meet the standards.

If you fail all the above tests then you can ask the FAA for a signal light test. I believe that this can only be done in the US but it can be done at any time during your flight training.

Almost everyone passes this test. .It consists of identifying the sequence of lights flashed at you in random order from a control tower (red, green and white) at 1000' and 1500' distance.

They look like traffic lights.

If you pass then the FAA inspector will take away your old medical with the restriction on it and give you a new one with the letter of evidence on the spot.

. .As for flight schools

I recommend this one, I have dealt with a few over here and this crew really know what they are doing.

<a href="http://www.machines.com/sunrise/" target="_blank">http://www.machines.com/sunrise/</a>

Hope this helps

apruneuk
1st Feb 2002, 17:22
Could Bosher or anyone who has been in touch with him let me know what test he took in Switzerland and where he took it. Cheers, chaps!

N2334M
1st Feb 2002, 21:55
I think that there are a lot of people interested in bosher's experience. I downloaded a list of all Switzerland AMEs from <a href="http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/AME.pdf..." target="_blank">http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/AME.pdf...</a> I just need the name, and I have already his telephone number !!

I have been in touch with Soestesberg Aeromedical Centre (NL, near Amsterdam), and I have been told that they have only Holmes Wright lantern test, as alternative colour vision test.. .This should prove that the whispers of that Medical Centre bankruptcy (heared on this forum)are not real, as I was told I could get an appointment on their site, <a href="http://www.aeromed.nl" target="_blank">www.aeromed.nl</a> !!

Bosher, please tune in pprune and illuminate us, please !! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

nosefirsteverytime
1st Feb 2002, 23:31
A much cheaper test to try is the D15, where you just arrange little black pot things with the colour in the middle in a certain order that make up a spectrum. D15 have 15 pots, D30 has 30, and so on. Much more accurate than an ishyhura, which I failed (and passed the D15!). But, whatever you do while taking the sets, USE THE TIME ALLOWED! Do NOT rush it, and look over the dots two or three times before you are sure! For Irish PPRu Ners, there's a guy in Galway who does it, he's v. good! Highest recommendations! He did his best for me and my eye problems. His offices are above the jewellers straight across the street from the Corbetts Court entrance to Eyre Square shopping centre! forget the name, but trust me, ask for the D15

N2334M
2nd Feb 2002, 07:16
The D15 could be a reliable test compared to Ishihara, the only problem is that it is not JAR Approved !!! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Anybody knows where I can be tested on the Spectrolux lantern test ? I have been told by a Doctor that is a lot easier than Holmes Wright, the only problem is that kind of equipment is DAMN expensive, so very difficoult to find...

Spectrolux is JAR Approved !! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Still waiting for bosher to show up, I am wondering where he is at !!

nosefirsteverytime
2nd Feb 2002, 22:34
WHAT!? <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Reggub, and I thought I was home free.... <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

N2334M
5th Feb 2002, 18:40
Nose Indiana Groond, I did not understand what you were expressing with your last post.

I am setting up an internet site for CVD pilot related subjects, with a forum. I am currently searching a host who can support PERL language, for forum hosting. I don't know much about web pages, anyway I will do my best...

I was wondering who might be interested in partecipating in writing articles about own experiences and anything that might be relevant to cvd pilots subjects.

Bye !

Flyin'Dutch'
5th Feb 2002, 22:37
Any JAA medical is valid in any JAA country.

I think that is about the only benefit that JAR has brought us.

Isn't it?

inverted flatspin
6th Feb 2002, 08:51
Icebox, you might want to try this outfit before you go anywhere, I came across tem while surfing the web and it looks like they have a full battery of tests

<a href="http://www.city.ac.uk/optometry/colour_vision.html" target="_blank">http://www.city.ac.uk/optometry/colour_vision.html</a>

. .Let us know how you get on

icebox
6th Feb 2002, 15:24
To Inverted Flatspin,

Thanks for your message. Can I have your e-mail address?

Mine is [email protected]

Regards

Ice.