What a surprise from EK to UPS

[Intlyogi]

Thought that others should know about EK come to UPS Union and try to come to an agreement about maybe or future furloughs joining EK with conidtions. Flying 4 times over the polar 17 time zones 69 hours! with just 3 crew. All in 10 days without able to commute to a place of relaxation. I understand that UPS union (mangerment) trying to help possible lay offs with condition do not sell us short and EK trying advantage. There are people who will and people wouldn't! Good luck to all at both UPS and EK.

[Bypass ratio]

I cannot understand what you are trying to say? Your grasp at trying to put forward a paragraph that actually make sense is bordering on the rediculous. Try re-writing the entire post again please.

[TowerDog]

He can't be talking about the US cargo airline UPS trying to send furloughed pilots to the sandbox...? :sad:

[springbok449]

Was chatting with a UPS skipper in the bar in NY a few weeks back and he was saying that they were furloughing up to 140+ pilots in the near future and that most of these guys were probably heading the the Middle East...

[411A]

Hmmm, I read recently that the UPS furlough was canceled...sure hope so.

[a747jb]

I can and will confirm this rumor. I have several friends who work at UPS and have flown in and out of Dubai in the past 2 months. They are in serious talks with the Union about possible furloughs (up to 300) as was announced in US media reports. NOTHING has been confirmed yet. There is a pilot in recruiting, not sure who it is, that used to work (or did something with a contractor, this I am not 100 percent sure about) at UPS according to my buddies, and was trying get in contact with the potential furloughs at UPS to hire them here at EK. That is all the information I have, so as to not start any incorrect rumors (as tempting as it is) I will stop there. But yes, EK is actively pursuing UPS potential furloughs to come work here. :bored:

[lpokijuhyt]

Going to EK from UPS would be demoralizing for the UPS pilot. That's like being a star player on Manchester United and then told you are being traded to Portsmouth. :eek:

[fatbus]

more strong union background pilots take alot of heat off everyone else, I say bring them, It will give fleet a new group to traget, there has not been any quick sackings( for no good reason ) of late

[Laker]

Wow this should be fun to watch. UPS FO's are accustomed to making about USD150K+/year for fly 300-600 hours a year. Life at EK will be a shock to say the least.

[MosEisley]

First of all, this is true. I have heard from several friends at UPS who confirmed it. Therefore...

To any UPS pilots reading this....

Don't be fooled. You WILL be miserable at EK. My friends at UPS who know the truth about EK would be happy to enlighten you. (PM me for their contact info). The quality of life and employment at EK is a joke compared to what you are used to. Whatever you do, do NOT sign anything which could jeopardize your number at UPS. Some of you may have flown through Dubai on trips and it seems fun, but the reality of daily life is much different. Hang in there, you won't be furloughed for long and you still have one of the best jobs in commercial aviation.

P.S. before you get their info, you will need to give me yours to ensure that you work for UPS and not EK.

[Wizofoz]

Mos,

That assumes they will have to resign from UPS.

We did the deal with the SAS guys which allowed them to fly here while on LOA from SAS.

[Instant Hooligan]

Just another temporary fix!! At least our rostered flying will decrease.
Lets face it, this once sought after airline has been reduced to attracting only those pilots with no jobs! Says it all really.

[PorkKnuckle]

more strong union background pilots take alot of heat off everyone else

Just like TCED.

this once sort after airline has been reduced to attracting only those pilots with no jobs

"Sought after." Or did you mean, "sort-of sought after"...! It was probably your sub-conscious speaking and a good point too! :ok:

[dundem]

That's like being a star player on Manchester United and then told you are being traded to Portsmouth.




Hold it there buddy- Yellow Card!!! Portsmouth is still in the Premier League (for now) and I'm not sure if they'd appreciate the comparison.:}:}

[fatbus]

WiZ,

they had a letter of resignation from SAS that was issued by the VPFlt ops and were told if you need it use you can come back within 5 years, as far as EK knew they had resigned some guys tried the same thing with AC but EK had already caught on and called AC HR to confirm the resignation

[Wizofoz]

Oh, Thanks FB.

That wasn't as I understood it.

Agreed then, I doubt many will cut ties to UPS to come here.

[MosEisley]

The word is that somebody at UPS will sign a "resignation" letter and let them turn it into EK but not submit it to UPS. I would just caution them against doing anything which could potentially prevent them from getting back to UPS when the time comes.

[MosEisley]

Laker,

I know nobody would give up a number to go to EK. My point is that they shouldn't even sign a bogus resignation letter because it could come back to bite them, and EK isn't worth that risk.

[QCM1]

You're deviating guys...thread was about furloughed pilots looking for a job,not pilots resigning from UPS to join EK...maybe they will feel comfortable to have a job waiting for them...and exchange a "prestigious" career where you're sacked in the end against a job,maybe harder but simply realistic...nobody been sacked for forgetting a hat...when you want to kill your dog you pretend it's sick...

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

QCM1, not sure what you are exactly trying to say, could be the vino. However, even the furloughed pilots have to put in a letter of resignation to join EK. Just ask all the NWA furloughs. Then after that, ask them if they would rather be on the Delta list now after signing the letter of resignation after being furloughed to come to EK.

[luvly jubbly]

Yup. You have to provide EK with written proof that you have actually resigned from your job. Furloughs not accepted!

LJ

[777dawg]

Ok guys, I can't stand it any longer. I personally know guys who were in my new hire (new joiner class for those of you on the east side of the pond) who readily admit to submitting bogus resignation letters to EK in order to join. My neighbor and a classmate from SAS being the poster childre(of course, they could have been lying through their teeth........probably not though since pilots are the paragon of honesty and integrity). My US pilot buddies from United, American, Delta, etc notwithstanding! So if the UPS guys pull a bait and switch with EK so be it! I learned one thing being a dreaded DEC at EK..........keep the TCAS on at all times and look out for the incoming traffic!

My hats off (hope that doesn't get me in trouble with management........oh, I forgot, I don't work for them anymore) to all you guys and gals staying there, I know your pain. I also know many are there because inspite of the negatives they have found a way to be content (as my Kiwi classmates would say), "good on you mate". To all contemplating EK for whatever reasons, fortold is forewarned, listen and be educated. The problems are real, the good things are real, and the risk/reward is real. I suggest you chose wisely!

Peace ya'll..................live it or rest in it!

The DAWG is out.

[halas]

Not all who come to EK have resigned from their previous employ. A group of Air New Zealand FO's were on limited contracts. Are they still around?

halas

[GMC1500]

I flew with a Swede Capt who was downgraded to FO for a year :ouch:, very nearly fired, for some sort of issue with this LOA thing. He thought EK knew about it but they apparently didn't, and when they found out, that was the result. I also flew sim support for him when he was re-qualifying for the left seat.
There is no doubt, you must resign from your previous company to join EK.:=

[mensaboy]

Perhaps my intrepretation of this thread is out of whack, due to the initial obscure post and a couple other subsequent posts, but it seems to me that the issue is not whether the UPS dudes sign a letter of resignation. Rather, that perhaps there might be some kind of 'deal' in the works between the UPS pilots potentially headed for a period of redundancy, their union and our illustrious leadership.

My theory is pure conjecture but consider the following.

-EK is desparate for suitable pilots. Even the poor sods at the recently now-defunct airline in Canada, are not exactly banging at Emirates door to get in. (just what I have heard from the results of the quickly arranged.... 2 days after the airline busted?.... pilot assessment meetings in Toronto)
-UPS probably has some great experienced pilots who are facing (we all hope) a short term layoff period. I'm not sure what types they are flying though, which could destroy my whole theory, but anyhow, wouldn't it seem wise to try to hire these guys even for a short fixed period of time, with full agreement between all parties on the terms, in order to fill the massive void that Emirates is struggling to fill?
-Emirates cannot put enough pilot 'bums in the seats' to properly staff this operation for the next 1 to 2 years. Yes a mutually agreed upon deal with a particular union would be a stop gap measure but it could work.

Damn, if I was management and had put myself in this position, I would make every effort and throw out the past requirement for signed resignation letters, if it bought me some time.

It would be more cost effective for EK to promise the world to these guys, hope some of them stay and continue the operation as opposed to parking aircraft and having to explain to His Highness, why events have unfolded in this manner. Perhaps I am a bit cynical of late and my hypothesis is totally crazy so feel free to pick holes in my argument.

It would be another sad day for airline pilots around the world if indeed these types of deals are being considered by management and pilots. It would be an even sadder day for EK pilots if indeed Emirates got away with this period of incredibly mismanagement.

[zk-dxb]

The 'requirement' to be in possession of a Letter of Resignation is 'writ in water' - as opposed to 'chiselled in stone'. There are a number of Air NZ pilots working here who are on Leave Without Pay from Air NZ, with the full knowledge and active involvement of both EK & NZ Management. Air NZ had a temporary surplus and EK had a (temporary?) shortage of pilots. The only proviso placed on these pilots was that they must resign from Air NZ to be eligible for Command at EK. What Mensaboy worries might be contemplated has, in fact, already occurred. If there is sufficient incentive, I am sure management will do it again.

[Wizofoz]

I've also met at least one American pilot who was on furlough, but had worked for another company before coming to Emirates.

As he was able to supply a letter of resignation from THAT company, EK was satisfied.

Mensa,

Why would it be a "sad day" if the company found a solution to the horlicks they've made of crew numbers and actually managed to get us flying sustainable hours?

[411A]

Why would it be a "sad day" if the company found a solution to the horlicks they've made of crew numbers and actually managed to get us flying sustainable hours?

From some of the postings here, I thought it would be rather obvious....not so much to complain about.:}

[mensaboy]

Unfortunately the arrival of temps won't get us back to flying a sustainable level of hours. It will only mean that the operation will continue without a hitch and therefore no accountability from management. The 90+ hours without OT is here to stay and EK will only employ enough pilots, utilizing whatever pool they can attract, to match those numbers.

Aiming Point summed it up pretty good.

[cadidalhopper]

Wow this should be fun to watch. UPS FO's are accustomed to making about USD150K+/year for fly 300-600 hours a year. Life at EK will be a shock to say the least.

That is exactly what their union is negotiating for them at EK. Don't think they will be brought in at the same rate as the rest of the EK pilots.

[Wizofoz]

cadida,

Then I would be pretty confident they won't be coming!

There have been rumours of new joiners and recent leavers beening put on higher rates. All have proven to be untrue.

I would suggest it will be a case of take it or leave it.

[littlejet]

What are your negotiating positions if you are going to be furloughed?
The Union rep. must be a Trump type dude!