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widgeon
11th Apr 2010, 15:46
Saw a pic today of the new EC145 that shows something mounted just below the rear clamshell doors. Hard to tell from the picture what it is but it looks to be gimbal mounted , is it the FLIR would not seem to be a ideal location. Anyone know what is is ?
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Acrobat/PANewsApril2010.pdf

SilsoeSid
11th Apr 2010, 16:17
Perhaps these will help, thanks to UK Emergency Aviation - Police Helicopter Gallery - G-DCPB (http://www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk/G-DCPB.htm)


http://www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk/user/cimage/G-DCPB-001.jpg

http://www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk/user/cimage/G-DCPB-003.jpg

http://www.ukemergencyaviation.co.uk/user/cimage/G-DCPB-004.jpg


p.s. It takes longer to log into PPrune and post, than to google it :ugh:

(yes, it's quiet here :p )

notar
11th Apr 2010, 16:33
Seems they have already lost a bit!;)

RotaryWingB2
11th Apr 2010, 17:12
He's correct, it is the nightsun.

southerncanuck
11th Apr 2010, 17:57
widgeon, that is our ec-145 stepmount, with the spectrolab xp on the rear hardpoint, flir starsafire on the fwd hardpoint. we are supplying EC UK with both the 135 and 145 steps for the UK police forces
cal

widgeon
11th Apr 2010, 20:11
Thanks ,looked at the web site Illumination Systems Searchlights Product Detail (http://ils.spectrolab.com/pr_detail.asp?wp=pr_ss_nightsun.asp&pd=1)

Must be the XP version , I know they were working on this back in 2001 nice to see it finally made it to market.

Coconutty
11th Apr 2010, 20:30
Yes - It IS the Nitesun XP :ok:

From the PAN article mentioned :
" ..... due to its increased load carrying capacity...."

Anyone know exactly how much the increased load carrying capacity is with their new EC145 - in it's current configuration, over the previous aircraft ( BK117 ) :confused:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/Coconutty.jpg

Rigga
11th Apr 2010, 20:44
The NiteSun seems to be mounted on the rear end of the Step - not behind the clamshell doors.

Moved due to the Met's experience? It would be interesting to see where the cameras fit.

Hughes500
11th Apr 2010, 20:56
EC145 ! Looks like my council tax will be going up as D & C try and keep up with The Met !

B.U.D.G.I.E
12th Apr 2010, 08:51
It would be interesting to see where the cameras fit.

so whats the big black ball shaped thing at the front then:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

bolkow
12th Apr 2010, 09:10
I notice they have not included the nose radome for radar that the Met has on all three of their examples.

Pan Euro
12th Apr 2010, 11:01
Following the Police mini tender for the 6 (now7) EC 135 aircraft the Meeker mount was selected as being the answer to problems previously experienced with the Mac Pod. The sucess of this has led to that now being the product of choice offered by EC UK for both the 135 and the 145 in the police role, and guess what ? it works !:D

212man
12th Apr 2010, 14:05
It would be interesting to see where the cameras fit.

so whats the big black ball shaped thing at the front then

You couldn't write this stuff!

MightyGem
12th Apr 2010, 16:27
I notice they have not included the nose radome for radar that the Met has on all three of their examples.
Maybe they don't have weather radar?

Madbob
12th Apr 2010, 16:53
Note the right skid mod to accomodate the NiteSun and compare it with the standard ski tip on the other side.

I wonder if this is an approved CAA/JAA mod and whether trials have been carried out to test them during an autorotation/run-on landing? Just an observation, anyone know the answer?

MB

SilsoeSid
12th Apr 2010, 17:41
I wonder if this is an approved CAA/JAA mod and whether trials have been carried out to test them during an autorotation/run-on landing? Just an observation, anyone know the answer?

Of course no one in the CAA would have thought to ask the question, 'If it's a police helicopter we are CoA-ing, where are the Nitesun and Camera?' :ugh:

Again, something that could easily be overlooked as the 'test pilot' climbs into the aircraft from the stbd side, having not done a walkround or w/b check! :rolleyes:


May I refer to 212mans earlier comment, You couldn't write this stuff!

Rigga
12th Apr 2010, 19:45
I apparently made a bit of a bum question - but the photos didnt appear on the screen when I first saw this thread, just a link to a poor picture.

So, apart from no radar, the D&C 145 also doesn't have Hoist and Roping Beam attachments or the USL hook and mirrors, or Loudspeakers but it has the Wire Cutters (for which the Met didnt buy the blades). What a wonderful amount of standardisation the police forces have? I wonder if NVG is still installed. I don't see in these pics any aerials for digital downloading?

The Wire Cutter Modified Skids are supposed to avoid trapping Cables/Wires under the Fuselage and so need to have that very high front profile to guide cables away - I guess this camera mount is supposed to fill that gap (but I somehow doubt it!)

I am quite surprised that the CAA/EASA were persuaded to allow this variance from the STC. Is there a smooth talker somewhere at ECUK or D&C? Will it take a Wire Strike to reinstate the correct front end?

southerncanuck
12th Apr 2010, 20:00
rigga, whether using our step mount or the EC bolster step, one has to remove the lower wirestrike deflectors (pixie boots) to allow the camera to be installed. if you have one payload fwd, then the lower wirestrike remains installed on the opposite. many operators have removed the lower wirestrike deflectors on both sides as a common install is camera and light on the forward end. which is the case for all EC bolster step installs. our stepmount has the advantage of a rear hardpoint, hence the XP located at the aft location.
so no, its not a variance of the stc
cal

Ian Corrigible
12th Apr 2010, 20:48
Cal beat me to the chase, but the EC145 operated by Suffolk County PD in NY also lacks the skid-mounted wirestrike protectors:

http://www.helis.com/h/ec145_n3pd.jpg (http://www.metroaviation.com/photos/4dfc86.jpg)

I/C

Rigga
12th Apr 2010, 21:08
Guys,

Thanks for the quick answers and explanations and the nice Metro Aviation photo. They all put my mind at rest. I was not aware of partial installations of Wire Cutter Mods.

SC - I believe 'yours' is the better step assy.

Rigga

southerncanuck
12th Apr 2010, 21:10
ian, thats is correct for suffolk, both deflectors are removed, as they have left and right payloads up front.
also ALL ec-135 and 145 with either our stepmount, or the EC bolster step have the deflectors removed when payloads / sensors are carried, standard procedure.
cal

Thud_and_Blunder
14th Apr 2010, 20:39
Hughes500,

If you read the blurb that came through last month from the County Council, you'll see that our police precept is the single biggest increase in our local taxes - up 4.9% from last year. I could comment on the VFM we get from the Middlemoor fliers, but as I work for a competitor it would be unseemly. Appropriate, perhaps, but unseemly.

J.A.F.O.
14th Apr 2010, 20:48
Cal

Damn fine kit it is, too. Thank you.

Hughes500
14th Apr 2010, 21:48
T and B
well D and C seem to want to compete with the Met. Why does D and C require a 145 when everyone else has a 135 or 920 ?
Would love to know how much time the heli spends over built up areas rather than over non congested, seeing we have only 3 major connubations in the area

jeepys
15th Apr 2010, 07:22
Hughes500,

madness is it not. D & C are hardly the harsh crime counties in the UK.

Has your council tax gone up to fund this?

As you say surely a 135/902 is more than sufficient but hey, who are we to comment. We just pay for it!

Looking forward to seeing all the extra capabilities of the 145.

They may well be selling it as a great 'paramilitary' machine ideal for fast roping, SQUAT teams etc which areas like Dartmoor really need!!!

Thomas coupling
15th Apr 2010, 07:37
D and C need an EC145 as much as the military needed the E101 Merlin. A great idea in somebody's head but not much practical use when something already available can do it for less (EC135). D and C have never and will never find the need for this stretched white van, but it looks good amongst its neighbouring police forces!
The met have fallen for the sales hype too. EC145's are incapable of delivering much of what was exepcted from this redesigned BK117.
The CAA will never allow rapid roping firing from a civvy helo or winching men in black out over the river on a moonless night - against the rules old boy.....and didn't we all know that before they were bought:=

Aerodynamik
15th Apr 2010, 09:13
The met have fallen for the sales hype too. EC145's are incapable of delivering much of what was exepcted from this redesigned BK117.
The CAA will never allow rapid roping firing from a civvy helo or winching men in black out over the river on a moonless night - against the rules old boy.....and didn't we all know that before they were bought

TC, is that so? ........Watch this space. I fear you may soon have egg on your face, old boy.

B.U.D.G.I.E
15th Apr 2010, 16:43
or just takin the p**s

I don't see in these pics any aerials for digital downloading?

so whats the great big white thing on the left skid then....


your correct...you can't write this stuff....

MightyGem
15th Apr 2010, 19:00
Don't worry Rigga. It's not that obvious in the pictures. On the third one, if you look under the belly on the farside, you can just see the white of the down link antenna.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MightyGem/DownlinkAntenna.jpg

Hughes500
15th Apr 2010, 19:00
Well the BK they used to have usually fell short on hours flown, so was used as a taxi so the budget wasnt cut or so a little bird was overheard saying.
The biggest joke is the heli is kept at one end of the force area. Anyone with half a brain could work out that it should be based in the midddle which also happens to be the biggest centre of population:ugh::ugh::ugh:. No wonder the Govt wants to cut police spending !!! Curious to know how many other forces use night vision goggles ? Are they really that necessary ?

Rigga
15th Apr 2010, 21:01
Cheers MG - I'll get specsavers onto the job!

southerncanuck
18th Apr 2010, 15:07
jafo, thanks for the kudos.

also we have payload arms specific to downlink pods. we have customers using the rear hardpoint for pods, either for transmitting long range or in HD. the suffolk 135 has the omni "stick" attached / strapped to the stepmount.
cal

REGLER
19th Apr 2010, 21:38
Nothing is perfect and that goes for the EC145 too... but I would not write-off a significant range of secondary roles for this type quite so soon. In fact the waiting might be over.

Thomas coupling
21st Apr 2010, 09:01
Can I ask for an honest response to this question all you end user 145 drivers:

Assuming you lift at MAUM for a job (or thereabouts), how long would you have to wait assuming normal fuel usage until you could hover:
(a) into wind.
(b) out of wind.

Thanks in advance.

BanksyM
1st Sep 2011, 14:35
The Right Skid is Standard. The left one has the Wire Cutter Mod. The winkle picker on the end of the skid is meant to push power cables under the skids. The Right was fitted but got in the way of the Flir.