Concerned Fat Bloke

[Flat Erik]

I am 30 years old, 5ft 7 but 105 KGs/ 16.5 stone.
I have always been a big, solid bloke, but I seem never to keep the weight under control, always fluctuating by up to 15 Kgs.

I consider myself to be quite fit and enjoy running, swimming, etc etc, but I cannot reduce my weight and keep it off.

In this job it is difficult to have a settled routine and I am very concerned about the long term impiications of obesity.

The GP has not been able to suggest anything constructive, so any advice would be most welcome.

Cheers Fat Erik

[simon chitty]

Body building with weights does miracles. Check with your nearest Gymn instructor. It has worked with my mates - it should with you.

[foghorn]

Erik,

I used to be in a similar position - I am 6'2" and peaked at 16.5 stone about six years ago - I was fit, active and strong and fairly well built muscles-wise (I was really into rowing), but I had difficulty with my weight - I was actually quite fat.

What I found was that in my case my obesity was more closely linked with diet than exercise, and my weight was actually a symptom of my heavy exercise:

Firstly, I had a decent muscle build which always increases your weight.

Secondly, I had convinced myself that because I exercised so regularly I could eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted in whatever amounts I wanted with complete impunity. I would regularly eat large portions of junk food, and also eat late night burgers, kebabs and curries after normal meals. I was also getting thorugh several pints of milk and whole packets of biscuits in a day, lunches consisting of cornish pasties and four or five rounds of sandwiches, not forgetting the chocolates, crisps and beer etc. etc. etc. (I was a student). My diet was horrendous and must have easily amounted to double the calories an average person needs.

After that things got better but I still resolutely stuck around the 15 stone mark and was, if not properly fat, a little porky.

Over the last few years I have learned to control things: I have learned that I cannot get away with eating the way I used to. I am now practically a fishy-vegetarian, I try to avoid bread, baked things, fried things, meat, dairy products sweet stuff and all manner of ready-prepared food. Notice that there are no hard and fast rules here - I just 'try to avoid' these things. This makes things easier because it's not really a 'diet' as such.

I bought a slow cooker, I just throw in fresh vegetables, various flavour sauces (some bought in, some I make myself) in a morning and when I get home it's cooked. I will sometimes add beans, fish or Quorn to it when I get home for variety - I have boiled or baked potatoes, pasta or rice with it and eat as much as fills me up. Dessert and snacks are fresh fruit. Lunch is anything other than sandwiches: cold pasta or rice salads with tuna, jacket potatoes done in the microwave with cottage cheese or baked beans - there really is a great variety. If there is a low-fat item in a particular range of food, I will buy it. I now weigh in at 13.8 stone and I do hardly any exercise, not enough really (but that's another problem!)

I am quite happy with things because it really takes no effort (I still eat the odd curry and drink plenty of beer but my day-to-day diet means that it is not a problem). Avoiding take-aways saves me a bob or two as well.

I started eating like this a couple of years ago and within a few months people had noticed the difference. I haven't put the weight back on - I've peaked at about 14 stone after hols and that's gone within a few weeks without really trying.

Hope this helps - it works for me.
foggy

[ 20 July 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[Bobby Guzzler]

Erik

Don't listen to ****a or whatever his name is - weights don't work! They'll turn the cheese pie into muscle, and then when you are older it will go back into stilton again.

My advice, get in that swimming pool, like you said you do, and swim harder. Don't just breaststroke up and down put some welly into it. It is all well and good that people say do CV exercises, but these exercises do work for weight loss!

If you have a salad / fruity diet that should help too! I am currently ending my sporty life for flying, so no doubt I'll be asking you for advice soon when I balloon up! :confused:

[simon chitty]

Erik,
"Foghorns" article is excellent and it covers the types of food required to keep your weight under control.

But I must stand by my original post, in addition to proper food intake - body building (dissimilar from weight lifting) will give you the greatest weight loss in a defined period.

A number of authors can verify that this technique works. E.g. author "Bill Phillips" in his book "Body for Life"

And don't be put off by popular myths, Fat cannot change its state into protein (muscle) or vice versa.

[Turbofan]

OK, I'll add my 2 cents, although I've got about $100 to add if you want it...

Firstly, Bobby Guzzler, you could not be more wrong!!! I do understand that your heart's in the right place, but for staying lean long term, you need to add muscle - i.e. bodybuilding. (More muscle = increased metabolic rate = less fat as it's used as fuel for the higher metabolism) You don't have to get massive (and realistically only the select dedicated few ever do), but it's best to be a bit bigger/muscular rather than smaller. If you do all cardio/aerobics, you'll lose a lot of fat but the muclse will go with it - you'll end up with a podgy gut, flat chest, triceps that "flap" when you wave, and girlie little stick legs, etc... and none of us want that.

And if anyone thinks I'm wrong then you're either genetically gifted or just a friggen' idiot. Sorry to be blunt, but I've worked in the fitness industry before and the number of falacies and myths that so-called professionals dish out just makes me want to vomit!
Ok, I've vented, please excuse that...

OK Erik, the guys who've put forward the name [b]Bill Phillips.

Having said all that, Bill Phillips does great things for the beginner, but that's about it. In recent years he's turned into a money-hungry pussy of an individual, and turned away from the more, let's say, hardcore bodybuilding folk.
I also agree with the others that it's your diet that's probably the major problem.

OK, I've rambled enough. I could go on for years, but if you want any more info just post it here or email me.

Cheers,
Turbofan

[Flat Erik]

Thanks for all the good advice folks. It seems that a complete change of lifestyle and diet are in order.
I have in the past managed to eat a lower fat diet, and combine it with a varied exercise routine, including weights (light weight, many reps). This resulted in gradual weight loss, but as soon as I relaxed the routine, the weight would creep back on. This cannot be good for long term health, so it looks like a permanent change is needed.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts.

Safe flyin' ;)

[Turbofan]

By the time you start getting good results you won't want to change back.

And perhaps, if you feel you need to drop a lot of fat, go on a carb restricted diet rather than fat restricted. And keep in mind that diet is 50% of the equation.

Again, if you want more info/help just yell...

Turbofan

P.S. I'm no absolute guru mind, I just know a fair bit simply from intense study and personal experimentation. Cheers.

[cirrus driver]

Hullo CFB,

As a physician who is also stocky and in a sedentary occupation I can assure you that a life-style change is the only way.

Weight bearing exercise ( walking,jogging) is the best for energy expenditure and aerobic fitness.
This coupled with a low fat diet and limited alcohol will ensure weight loss.

Go to http://www.gutbusters.com.au.
Subscribe to the programme, and do exactly what it says and you will lose weight and keep it off.

A low fat diet and exercise are the keys.
I have no connection to the above organisation but I do know its highly respected founder Dr Gary Egger.
Let us know how you go.

Cirrus ;)

[scanscanscan]

It was my observation that as an airline pilot as I aged my metabolic rate slowed but at a greater rate than my friends in a more normal job.
I noticed many job related factors conspire against my pilot weight and fitness.
I spent 26years in the Arabian Gulf and I can assure you night flying and Gulf temperatures combined with permanent jet lag do not inspire you to exercise or watch your diet even if by a massive effort you can obtain the healthy ingredients.
Airline food was a massive challenge, it was full of fat, always available during the 12 hour days and nights and operational stress and frustrations seemed to encourage bing eating.
24 hour stopovers in a dump hotel in a rotten third world country confined for your safety in a hotel room with readily available room service and depressing repetitive TV like BBC World Service
and CNN did not help a healthy diet or life style.
The advice to change your life style to me ment,... change your job location and change of your airline and... a huge loss of income!
And I liked income rich over slim poor.
My company doctor was not worried about my weight as my BP was luckily good, and he had plenty of much worse cases of weight gain on the Gulf to New York Airbus fleet with 15 hour flight to and from with 24hour stop overs. I sadly observed young Arab pilots become very old men in a year on this basically morally criminal life style diet.
My advice to Erick if he must continue as a pilot and in addition to the expert advice above is,... to really watch and restrict your diet on hotel and airline food and exercise "firstly" with walking, swimming, and youga stretching exercises, and a good massarge once a week, and if possible only drink water on the aircraft and avoid eating 4 hours before sleeping, and exercise during this period.
That is to prepare Ericks fitness for the fitness courses recommended by the other guys.
Most fitness instructors in my experience are not aware of how totally unfit airline pilots over 35 years old have become,if they have simply been flying for 15 years,and living the airline life they are only just "warm body" status.
Befor a proper fitness programme is started I would suggest you have a proper indepth blood analaysis, and cholestrol check as I donot think it wise you start a proper progressive exercise programme if your hydraulic system is stuffed full of the wrong fluid type.
I made it flying through to 60 and 22000.00 hours. Since retirement and atlast the "change of lifestyle", the weight has poured off and I look at life now with a new interest, befor if the fire bell was silent I was basically not interested.
I basically slept and slept and slept for the first three months of retirement and hopefully cleared some of the 25years of jet lag.
I used Pritickin diet advice,5bx exercises modifeid for knees bent, and Bruce Toulloughs book Natural Fitness a walking programme. I still have good knees and hip joints as I never ran as I had one leg longer than the other and it hurt and injured me to run, however I never met an injured non competitive walker, but plenty of f....d runners who ran badly and when grossly overweight.
Godd luck to you Erick its good you have recognised the problem the medical section fails to offer you preventive medical advise about.
One other bit of advice, I found most long haul jet pilots were irregular and most in my day had hemerriods at age 43 plus.
I recommend two Shredded Wheat with skimmed milk, fruit, each day and as much out of the pilot seat time as you can safely fit in.

[Flat Erik]

Thanks again folks.
I've just woken up at 1 pm after a 2 night flights. Guess what?.......No I really don't fancy getting out for some fresh air and exercise, and that "passenger" breakfast and coffee at 4am is still having all of it's fat, cholesterol and other impurities squeezed into my system.

Actually I'm fairly new to this type of flying and so therefore I am trying to begin with good habits; plenty of water and trying not to eat strange food at strange times.... I think I must try harder!!

As has become apparent from the other posts and the websites mentioned, a healthy diet and lifestyle change seems to be the key. I've bought a "low fat" cookbook, and have reviewed what is is in the larder. I think to make rash, abrupt changes in the way I eat would result in short term weight loss, so, easy does it. As for exercise, I've always been cardiovascularly fit, but finding an stimulating activity to keep my interest has been a problem, so I'm trying to find a suitable goal to aim for. Fortunately I live near the mountains so hill walking seems to be a good idea. In the meantime, 20 mins jogging 3 times a week keeps things ticking over. As a couple of you have suggested, I've begun swimming again, but with more effort, mind you I feel sorry for the other pool users, as the "supertanker" wake engulfs them! :D
That's it for today, I'm off to the hills.
Cheers everyone
Fat Erik ;)

[scanscanscan]

Erik if you are going to run or jog I suggest you ask Turbofan about the correct training pulse rate for you, and how you should monitor it during your run or jog, as we would hate to lose you if you foolishly push yourself too hard and have a heart attack. You will of course get achs and pains if you run while too heavy and your joints could suffer at 55y plus.
Remember this is a new lifestyle change for the long term and a very long journey, there is no rush, it is the steady movement in the right direction that is the target.Compound health fitness, a slow burn process.
A mountain is climbed step by step and certainly getting fit is best done by avoiding injury, strains etc, if you over punish your body you will, as a non athlete generally give up the programme, as do I am told around 80% of the newbees at the mass gyms.This is generally commercially cost effective for the gym.You are a pilot and gym membership is rarely cost effective for you if you are away 20/25 days a month.
Remember high speed and high weights generally cause your will to fail and you to give up,if you pick up a bad injury you could forever have that weak spot, so slowly slowly was advice that helped me.
Establish an email link with me as I have more info and direct help to offer you if you wish, I can provide cheap healthy R/R breaks for crew members on an individual or couple basis at my 2 acre Norfolk country property which includes a small gym,Tredex, indoor swimming pool, and monitored calorie meals intakes, and walks, in nearly as stress free enviroment as I can make it.
My wife and I do this not to make money but because I feel strongly that most modern long haul pilot life styles suck and she knows it from a wifes view point.
There is I feel a need for advce and help to 35year old plus pilots comeing to terms with the facts that health and fitness actually fade with age if you do not try and help your body combat this as long as possible. Weight overload is something the body doesnot like if it must beready at 4.00am for that tough approach or emergency or even the long bag drag through the terminals to the transport which is rarely there to the hotel with no beds for 3 hours.
So slowly does it, it took 12years to get fat and the body will not give it up in a few weeks of starve or frantic exercise, in fact it will protest and hurt you, remember you are nolonger 17 years old and not as young as you think you are!
I have out lived two doctors who told me that one!!

[Flat Erik]

Hi Scanning Man!!

E. mail F [email protected]

Cheers

[gingernut]

WOW! you lot shouldn't be wasting time flying aircraft..there's a whole world of obesity out there that needs your advice.

But seriously...nothing much to add. Change in the long term lifestyle will be the key. Examine the fat/sugar content on the "per 100gms" part of the label before you jam the stuff in your mouth. Try and fill up on the fruit (there won't be much room for anything else). Also, remember to have the odd treat. There is no such thing as a "bad food," rather a "bad diet."

Finally, go for the cardiovascular stuff. If its making you warm, and your panting, your doing ok.

Good luck.

[Turbofan]

Hi all, glad to see there's so many happy to help here!

OK Erik, you've got all this good info, let me try to give it some form of structure.

- Start off doing cardio. 3-5 times a week should do it. Rather than give a target heart rate, what I'll teach you is the talk-test. The talk-test is exercising to a point where you can say high to someone, but are working/exercising too hard to have a conversation - and that's the intensity you'll want to work up to. When you've finished the cardio don't eat for an hour, but don't leave it longer!

- I get the impression that you're very overweight. If that's the case, then all you really need do at this point is cut back on your calorie intake. I'd go so far as to say that you could eat much of the same stuff, just eat half as much. It's a fact that your stomach will shrink under such conditions (and expand if you over-eat), so soon you won't feel as hungry. Keep in mind also, that the exercise will cause your body to want more food. Resist this, just not so much that you starve yourself. In general terms, lower the amount of fat and carbs you take in (hard in todays world) and increase the protein. Go into some health food stores a look at meal replacement powders - they taste good and a FULL of great nutrients. If they're body-building related then even better! That's where you get 'da good stuff!' (And legal of course.)

- Soon enough you'll get to a point where you've lost a lot of weight. And that time you need to transition into a combination of weights and cardio. The weight training is purely to add and maintain muscle, the bonuses being:

* Increased metabolism,
* Lower long term fat levels,
* Better joints,
* Less chance of Osteoperosis(SP?),
* Improved hormone levels,
* Stronger immune system,
* You look better...

And there's so many more! You'll find when you get rather lean that you can let your diet go slack, as the weight training will cause the muscles to suck up the bullk of the nutrients... but I won't go into too much detail with that. Oh, and as mentioned previously, have some cheat meals, it's no great drama.

So just remember in the beginning the main thing is to cut the calories back. It'd possibly be helpful for you to give us your
height and weight. And like the others have rightly mentioned, go get a blood test, make sure your heart and colesterol is in good order, etc...

OK, that's all from me for now.
Keep positive my friend.

Turbofan

[Flat Erik]

Hullo again Turbofan,

My height is 1m76 weight 103 Kgs. This equals a BMI of 33.25,e.g obese.
Mind you I have a build like a Hooker.....to those of you not into rugby, that doesn't mean big knockers, long hair and an itchy crotch; I'm just a sturdy bloke!

As you suggest, I'm already into the C.V workouts, but maybe not as energetic as you suggest. I have also reduced the amount I eat and that Low Fat cookbook has some great recipes in it.

It's going to take ages, but at least I've started.
Cheers for now,
The fat one :D

[Turbofan]

Great stuff Erik.
Just work up to the intensity I recommended.
Give it a year and you'll have made a dramatic improvement! Just keep in mind that the other hidden ingredient (most people fail on this part) is consistency. Every little bit counts!

Turbofan

[Turbofan]

Just some things I meant to post previously...

Hey, it seems you're down 2kg already...! Cool! (Just noticed you posted your stats on your message that started the thread.)

Go to www.bodyforlife.com (http://www.bodyforlife.com) and look for a documentry called Body of Work. I really do highly recommend this for people just starting a physique transformation program. Erik, do yourself a favour and get yourself a copy!!!

I think this was perhaps posted earlier - go to your local newsagency and get a copy of a magazine called Muscle Media. It's excellent for beginners! Again, do yourself a favour and go get a copy!!!

Turbofan

[Turbofan]

DAMN FLOOD CONTROL!!!
I just lost a massive post... [stamps food HARD]

OK Erik, in short.
Get a copy of these things:

- Body Of Work. It's a documentary and is well worth the effort of getting it! Try here to get a copy : www.bodyforlife.com (http://www.bodyforlife.com)

- Muscle Media. A magazine you should be able to get anywhere that's perfect for beginners and intermediates. Highly recommended.

Do yourself a BIG favour and grab these few things, they'll make the world of difference in the long run.

Turbofan

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: Turbofan ]

[mcpilot]

All pilots should take my wifes advice:
Do a ten day detox at the beginning of the month followed by as much fresh veg (raw or lightly steamed) fresh fruit as you need to stave off the pangs; 2-3 litres of pure water (no other drinks, yes, booze, tea, and coffe), mineral and vitamin supplements, for the rest of the month.
Repeat this each month until you reach the weight you want then you can wean yourself slowly back onto the good things - in moderation of course - but continue the supplements and water intake. Or, try the Hay diet as a way to continue for the rest of each month instead.
You will end up with stabilised blood sugar and lower cholesterol plus lower blood pressure - that's if you've been keeping up the exercise - and generally feeling about ten years younger.

[lostinBRU]

Erik, many good things said, especially by Turbofan....just adding my tuppence worth.

I don't think we're too dissimilar. I'm "stocky" 1.75m 84kg guy. I do consider myself very fit in comparison to Joe average and still play a high club standard of squash and rugby.

However, the bad news is that it's not rocket science, it's just 'kin hard work!!! I've just turned forty and I can feel the metabolism slowing down....so it's getting harder to stand still!!!

Please ignore the bull@@@t that goes with this territory. Toxins, detox, flushing....all crap ways of saying what you already know.......crap in + sedentary life =fat knacker. Aerobic stuff + healthy diet is the ONLY sensible, sustainable way to get the body you want.

Speaking in practical terms, here's how I combine flying and exercise.

1. Try and keep some gym kit in your nitestop kit....takes no room at all.

2. If they have a gym, don't flop when you get to your room....if you're meeting in 30 -40 min for a beer/meal then get our a@se down to the gym. If you can get just 15/20 min on the running/rowing machine you'll be amazed at the results. I guarantee that you'll feel "energised" as a result and you will probably eat/drink much less than otherwise.

3. If they don't have a gym or want to save some time...no problem. Use your own bodyweight in your room. Pressups, situps, dips all have variations which mean that you can do a weights session without weights! For biceps/triceps I use my flight case. Keep the exercise going with short rest periods and you get an aerobic benefit too.

4. Like most "stocky guys, I find the aerobic work purgatory! I relieve the boredom factor by switching exercises between rowing and running. Incidentally, the Concept 11 rowing machine is the one piece of equipment I wouldn't be without. The problem I have is misjudging the pace. Result, not working hard enough or the opposite and fading early. I find working with a heart pace monitor to be of great benefit. It allows you to work in a region which is of benefit...and stay there. It just puts a number on the "breath" test referred to earlier. I think you would be surprised that you can get into that beneficial zone a lot easier than you thought. So, in short, these devices can help the beginner as well as the expert.

5. To a certain extent, ignore the weight/height charts. I suffered/suffer from ignorant docs telling me my BM index is going towards obese. My advice is use your mirror. Stand infront of a full length mirror in your skids. Jump up and down. See what wobbles. Nuff said.

In summary, staying healthy and fit is bl@@dy hard work in our world.....it requires effort.....but everything worth having is the same isn't it?

Geting there is one thing, maintaining it is the killer. You have to find the combination of diet/exercise you can live with for the foreseeable future, so be realistic when you start.
As an example, at my leanest, meanest fittest, I've never been lighter than 80kg. With two/three sessions a week, I can maintain a still fit/healthy 84kg.

Best of luck....it's worth it! :cool:

[Flat Erik]

Thanks for the advice.

Sorry Mcpilot, I've tried your method before. I found it bloody hard,depressing work, but the weight did come off. However within a couple of weeks all my effort was wasted as I'd gone back to my old weight. I reckon that most of the weight loss was in the form of water.

LostinBRU,
Very good advice, especially about the Concept rowing machines. During my last fitness binge, I'd heard that the junior record on the concept machine over 2000 metres was just under 8 mins, so I set that as my goal. In a few weeks I was able to row the 2000 metres in 7 mins 50 secs. I certainly could not hold a conversation whilst doing that Turbofan! Alas I've slipped since then but I am working on the CV fitness again. Like yourelf LostinBRU, the doctors come out with all sorts of nonsense about BMI, indeed one said if I was in the RAF I'd be expected to be 63kgs! I haven't been that weight since I was 13 years old. It is what you look like and feel like that counts, and at present I look and feel like a lump of lard. Anyway, as they say "Rome wasn't built in a day" so I'm off for some exercise.

Cheers
;)

[Si]

Are you all pilots and do you get the time to exercise, i would have thought that being sat on an a/c all day and eating all those inflight meals of which incidentally have about the equivalent calories and fat of a Big Mac and fries, that you wouldn't have time to eat right and exercise.

[Turbofan]

Hey Si,

Yes, I'm a pilot. But I don't cross timezones like it seems most of the guys on this thread do. Having said that I still often work the same hours these guys do, and always make a point of getting to the gym before getting into bed... so to speak.

It's a way of life for me now. You get to a point (relatively soon in fact) where you just get a craving to lift some weights and trash your body if you haven't done it for a little while. :)

As with everything it does get easier as you incorporate it into life. It becomes a habit. As despite what some people say, I think it gets easier once you reach that 'groove'. You can miss a workout, have a few bad meals, 'cos your body's in "Healthy / I wanna look good" mode.

Turbofan

[BIG MISTER]

Ok Gents

Your a few months down the line now .... Hows it going ????

;0)

[hovepilot]

Hey guys that is an interesting one which I have enjoyed reading!

Here's my story.

May 2001 - Age 50, 185lbs, W 36" bp 158/105
May 2002 - Age 51, 159lbs, W 32" bp 130/85

In May 2001 I had a medical and my blood pressure was slightly high at 158/105.

The Doctor advised that I should lose half a stone of weight and that should get my bp back to normal.

Well, for twenty years my weight has increased a pound or two each year in spite of my permanent struggle not to eat cakes and junk food and wanting to "look good" etc.

The shock of being told I had raised blood pressure made me sort myself out.

I starting doing aerobic excercise. (I prefer the cross-trainer at the gym and rowing machine for say 45 mins two or three times a week) I also controlled my food intake by basically banning cakes and confectionery and snacks between meals.

I lost half a stone in eight weeks and my blood pressure came down to 135/95 - more or less OK.

After that eight weeks I had got into a new lifestyle with excercise and eating so I just continued my progress. It was rather easy and satisfying. I lost a further half stone by the end of 2001 i.e. 7 months after the start of this regime. .....and then it all stopped and not a further pound would come off!

However, and this is the interesting bit - last March (2002) I decided to take some supervision from a personal trainer at my gym. I now do proper excercises and weightlifting in association with aerobics. Easily and quickly the pounds half starting coming off and I am somehow able to eat a lot more food, included the odd Big Mac and fries and I am starting to see my target of 11 stone painlessly and satisfyingly within reach.

It seems TURBOFAN is quite right, although I have only read this thread today I have basically being taking his advice.

I feel so fit - more so than twenty years ago - and I stress I was cronically overweight even though not obese. I walk miles without effort. I feel horny too!

[blueball]

The "Atkins Diet" worked for me. Buy the book "Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution". They have a website to, search for it. You need to exercise, but on this diet you can eat a lot of good stuff and the weight rolls off. Just try it.