Fake Brevet's

[WASALOADIE]

I've just been trawling through ebay and noticed a load of fake brevets that are for sale from a couple of jokers, the include;

D - Driver item no 220561551749
WAG - Wireless air gunner (remote control?)
RAG - Rear Air Gunner
FAG - Foreward Air Gunner
RAF(without the queens crown) - WSop
AW - Air Warfare operator
HC - Helicopter Crew

One claims to be an ex RAF WO

[Whenurhappy]

WAG was a genuine WWII category for dual-trained NCO Aircrew (my wife's great uncle was a WAG on Vildebeests of 100 Sqn, taking on the Japanese Zeros); HC is/was an RNZAF category for Helicopter Crewman. Not sure of the others...

[BEagle]

Surely it was WOP/AG, not 'WAG'? The brevet being 'AG'?

Would anyone really buy a 'FAG' brevet..:uhoh:

[Dengue_Dude]

I sent a question to someone selling a RAG brevet on eBay to confirm they'd answer. The question was:

Dear bestmessdress,

I was not aware that rear gunners had been issued a separate
brevet, in fact I cannot find any reference to RAG on any RAF
brevet authorised by the War Department or MoD. My father was
an Air Gunner from 1931 to 1945. So what actually is the
provenance of these brevets?



This is the reply:

Unfortunately I am no RAF expert my friend other than what is given to us on the contracts from the MOD direct from which we are forced to work from .

If unsure its always best not to buy in my mind sir but I can assure you we have in the four months we have sold these sold litterally hundreds!!

regards


So the answer to the question is 'yes', lots of people know no better. The people selling them are a different matter - 'shower of ****' springs to mind.

[circle kay]

When the WSO / WSOp thing was started they seriously considered the WSOp version not having a crown; perhaps this is one of the first test batch?

[WASALOADIE]

the one I sent a message to said he had sold thousands. But a "driver" brevet? come on! I know we refer to pilots as "drivers airframes" but this is taking the joke too far!

Its true the Air Gunners wore AG brevets and could interchange between positions.

They're making them up and naive people are buying them.

[longer ron]

WAG was an RCAF badge (W op/AG) introduced 1941/2...for some reason the badge was not popular with the RAF hierarchy...therefore the holders loved it !!
link to canadian museum shop - just scroll down

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=11&ved=0CAgQFjAAOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comoxairforcemuseum.ca%2FMuseumStore%2F patches.html&rct=j&q=RCAF+WAG+photo&ei=z6C3S7yMC5X54gbxy5HfDg&usg=AFQjCNHoYhvfusJuysgCABm7ZRLdvpStrw

This is a link to a photo with SGT Jessome (WAG) at back right,you can just about make out the badge !

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=59&ved=0CB8QFjAIODI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcaf434squadron.com%2Fair-crew-photos%2F434-aircrew-photos-now-total%2F1719422&rct=j&q=RCAF+WAG+photo&ei=A6K3S4v0MILx4gaZjeTFDg&usg=AFQjCNEcrmToTL_FWfGARxX9ovNrhdN_4Q

I have also seen pics of aircrew wearing a WAG badge without Crown/RCAF so did any other countries also briefly use it ??

[longer ron]

Would anyone really buy a 'FAG' brevet..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif

Give us a kiss and i'll tell you !! :eek: :ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

My dad was a WOP/AG and just had the AG badge, after they decided the flying bullet was going to be replaced.

(I've still got his flying bullet, a bit battered but there again it's pretty old, he was a gunner on Vincents originally, then eventually Blenheims).

[Diablo Rouge]

Searching eBay for brevets is as sad as an imposter wearing, or a wide boy selling if you ask me. Unless your a walt, for then it is essential surfing. I have a flying badge awarded that I am unable to wear due to(orders) jointery camouflage despite the Senior Management wearing theirs (on desert dp) whilst on their flying visits to the sand pit. Normally it would not bother me an iota, but it helps street cred with foreigners when talking aviation matters whilst wearing an aviators badge.

[WASALOADIE]

I happened to come across these brevets whilst looking for something else. I'm certainly not a walt having worn a LM brevet for 30+ yrs.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Don't you just hate it when people show no respect for these items. Particularly, AG, WOP and others. There have been hundreds of heroes who wore them and they were as much of a mans life in the RAF as any medal is.

I have a set of wings properly mounted which were worn by Chas Finn-Kelcey of 30 Sdn - a truly good friend. My grandson who knew Chas as well has promised that he will always take care of them. Good enough for me.

[Diablo Rouge]

Somebody give me a hand!Quick!!I went fishing and I think I've caught a whale....

[Dengue_Dude]

Searching eBay for brevets is as sad as an imposter wearing, or a wide boy selling if you ask me. Unless your a walt, for then it is essential surfing.

Well Diablo, you've no idea WHY people look for brevets online and I wasn't aware anyone did ask you.

My dad was aircrew for over 12 years including the whole of WWII, and I was aircrew from 1973 and stopped flying last year, including on Ops. I reckon that entitles me to look at what the hell I like - including brevets.

Not that it's any of your business but I was researching my dad's transition from brass flying bullet to brevet, the rise in rank from LAC Air Gunner to Sgt Air Gunner etc etc. There are a myriad of possible reasons.

If you're that insecure about your brevet wearing, you should have been around when the woolly pulley (or what ever spelling) was introduced and a lot of navigators (in particular) kicked off because originally there were no brevets sewn on them. You'd have fitted in just fine.

Back to the point - there are low-lifes out there conning people out of hard earned money at a time when most people are far more aware of our Armed Forces and many of them being in harms way.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were not UK born, because looking at the BBC reports it's fair to say that much of the conning being done is by 'visitors' (doubtless I'll be slagged for being racist now) who've settled within these shores.

[Rigga]

...and it wasn't WOP - it was WOp.

[Dengue_Dude]

...and it wasn't WOP - it was WOp.

That's probably why he stuck to the AG bit as he was going up through Italy at the time . . .

[taxydual]

Wasaloadie

What happened to the move to have a CM (Crewman) brevet instead of the LM (Loadmaster) brevet for SH and SAR(H) rearcrew?

Oh, ignore the 'caught a whale' remark earlier. I'm sure you've lost weight since those days 'dahn sarf'. :ok:

TD (your ex-opsy)

[longer ron]

just to finish off about the 'WAG' badge
Here is a ww2 pic of Mike Winton RCAF wearing his WAG badge

Michael in RCAF uniform on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://flickr.com/photos/mando_gal/2492696433/in/set-72157600213288362/)

[14greens]

top tip!!!

dont buy one then

[Tankertrashnav]

As someone who has been dealing in militaria for over 30 years, I would advise anyone considering purchasing military badges on ebay to exercise extreme caution. Concerning brevets, as well as the non-existent aircrew categories mentioned above, there are many apparently genuine brevets and wings on sale which are not what they purport to be. For example, a genuine WW2 period pair of RAF pilot's wings could fetch anything from £25 - £50, yet a modern tailor's copy can be bought wholesale for around £2. Many of these appear on ebay purporting to be originals, in fact I would go as far as saying that at least 50% of military badges offered on ebay are modern copies.

I would advise anyone wanting to buy genuine old wings or brevets to seek out a reliable dealer who is willing to give you a written guarantee that you are buying a genuine item. In the case of you buying a dud online, forget the idea that ebay might help you gain recompense - they are not interested. By the way, I'm not drumming up trade - I've got no wings or brevets for sale, the only one Ive got is still sewn onto my No 1!

[Dengue_Dude]

Thanks Tankertrashnav.

I've got some that were on my flying suits, but I gave my No1 uniform to Doncaster Aviation Museum!

Good advice that.

[Wiretensioner]

Taxydual

For the 1982 Tiger Meet hosted by 230 Sqn at Gutersloh all the crewman had name patches with CM brevets on them. Everytime I got new name badges I stuck with the CM brevet theme even on SAR. My last one is on the back of my helmet today here in the civvy SAR world. Once a crewman always a crewman!

Wiretensioner:cool:

[taxydual]

Thanks for that, WT. Wasaloadie PM'ed me with the 'official' word why the CM brevet wasn't introduced.

I suppose the LM brevet covers a multitude of sins. And, boy, weren't some of the CM sinners! :ok:

[WASALOADIE]

Some guys got QM Brevets and unpicked the stitching to make it read CM. Some of us were LM's who later became CM. I tend to have my manufactured brevets as either, depends upon my mood at the time. I recently had a No1 and was mortified when they put a WSop brevet on it instead of the LM brevet I had provided, so un-picked it and sewed a LM brevet on in its place.

[Lightning Mate]

Some of us were LM's who later became CM. I tend to have my manufactured brevets as either, depends upon my mood at the time. I recently had a No1 and was mortified when they put a WSop brevet on it instead of the LM brevet I had provided, so un-picked it and sewed a LM brevet on in its place.

So there are lots of LMs around...........

LM