EK Weekly update

[haveago]

Profits are good but take an extra blanket or pillow to CRC expect a meeting with Chief Pilot!

[woodja51]

Yeah that line was a bit unneccesary and child like.

And now we are taxying too fast as well... is the limit not 30 in a straight line and ten in a turn... or faster if back tracking.?? Not sure but dragging the brakes to keep the speed down surely wears the brakes more than just letting the beast find its own natural speed?

In a previous life I was told that if you had any accident taxying you were at fault... so not sure that speed has anything to do with the level of sh#t you are in if you run into something!

Maybe I will take my own sleeping bag - but thats right.... I forgot not allowed to carry a bag for it....back pack pack or what ever..including staying in PJs up in the flight deck...

One of the guys a while ago used to fly around with his hat on ... for a joke...of course...

W

[bidabon]

"there are those pilots who have legitimately questioned us in the Recurrent Training Wash-up meetings regarding any management decisions on improvements to pay or annual bonus this year. At this point it would be very premature for us to speculate on either"

So please guys, continue to save fuel because we in management have very very deep pockets, and only when they get full you can may be receive a couple of peanuts if you say plizzzzz !!!
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Wizofoz]

Woodja,

I agree about the Blankets!!

Nicking a matress from a vacent FC cabing makes both the seat and the CRC much more bearable during a West-Coast flight. If we can't take one, how about provinding us with one?

As to Taxi speed, if ELOM is showing atrend towards somthing unsafe, telling us and asking we keep on eye on it is exactley how it should work, rather than pulling people, making up more rules etc. etc. so I actually think that was fair enough.

Starry eyed optimist here, but AT LEAST the last two updates have included the "T" word, Thank you!! Flyinbg are arses off, it is a baby step in the right direction to get some tiny bit of appreciation rather than another corporate bolocking!!

[Dirigible]

When are we to be rid of this idiot? His thanks followed in the next paragraph by a threat just highlights his insincerity. I am surprised that we didn't have another plagiarised summary of the state of the world airline industry followed by a note as to how lucky we are to have a job. Be gone, please..you have long overstayed your welcome, now you are just irritating.

[palm]

I can't stand this anymore, a "thank you" followed by " Tea and Bisc with your chief pilot"

Be prepare for some more sh...in a few days guys:ugh:

:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[CAVnotOK]

A few days? I doubt it will take that long.

Cav

[kiwi]

We have an authorised proceedure for mitigating the huge fatigue involved in this job, called controlled crew rest. But how dare you expect to have pillows to enable you to take this mitigation if the flight is full!!
We should have two pillows and blankets provided on the flight deck for this procedure so that controlled crew rest can be adequately utilised regardless of whether the flight is full or empty.
Surely the GCAA approval of variations must have taken into consideration the use of this proceedure to allow these extremes of duty times for two crew operations!
I've always thought that it must look dreadful to any passengers who observe the flight attendants taking an armful of pillows and blankets to the flight deck. I am sure they'd be mortified to think that the crew are sleeping up the front! Best to avoid this by having these items on the flight deck before passengers board the aircraft, imho.

[Old King Coal]

Wrt In-Flight Rest, is this of any value?


Title - Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations

Description - Final Report - “Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations”

The quality of rest regarding rest location / rest facilities for flight crew and cabin crew (re. EU OPS 1.1115 para 1.1 and 1.2).

Various adjustments will be required if the rest facilities do not meet the standards of a ‘good quality’ bunk (footnote to Q11...... The bunk facility should be completely separated from cockpit and passenger compartment and should be adequately insulated and situated to minimize random and aircraft noise and light. It should contain one or two horizontal sleeping surfaces of adequate size. Preferably, it also has a comfortable seat, climate and humidity control. It is assumed that the requirements for rest facilities will be covered under a separate document after conducting comparative studies of different bunk arrangements (e.g. advisory circular).

From studies that have investigated the extent to which aircrew are able to rest and recuperate in seating accommodation, it has been concluded that rest in a ‘normal’ business class seat separated from the passengers is 75% effective compared with bunk rest, and rest in a flight deck seat that meets certain minimal standards is 33% effective [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
These factors should therefore be applied to those for bunk sleep so that, for example, the 75% increase, applied to bunk sleep, is reduced to 0.75 x 0.75 = 56% and 0.75 x 0.33 = 25% respectively.
No data have been collected from aircrew resting in normal economy seating, and it is not recommended that any increase in maximum FDP be allowed in that case (until studies are carried out on this).

To summarize, the recommended extensions to the unaugmented FDP, based on the quality of accommodation described below, expressed as a percentage of the rest period available to a single crew member, are as follows [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007]. The percentages have been suitably rounded for ease of application.

Recommended extensions to the unaugmented FDP, as a percentage of the rest period:

- Acclimatised: 75% (Bunk) / 60% (Business Seat) / 25% Flight Deck or other Seat / no extension (Economy Seat).
- Unacclimatised: 50% (Bunk) / 40% (Business Seat) / 20% Flight Deck or other Seat / no Extension (Economy Seat).

The seating arrangement must meet certain minimum specifications for these extensions to be justified.
A business seat should be a seat reclining to at least 40 degrees back angle to the vertical, outside the cockpit and separated from the passengers and cabin illumination by at least a dark curtain. The seat should offer sufficient leg and foot support and should have sufficient pitch and width to rest comfortably [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
A flight deck / other seat should be a seat in the cockpit or in the passenger cabin reclining to at least 40 degrees from the vertical and providing sufficient leg and foot support [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007; Nicholson AN & Stone BM, 1987].
No data are available of comparative studies of seating arrangements; more detailed requirements may await the results of future comparative studies.

The recommendations above are based on studies in cockpit crew. No data are available about the relation between seating accommodation and sleep in cabin crew. Although it is assumed that physiological characteristics and needs of cabin crew are similar to those of cockpit crew, their work and augmentation schedules differ considerably from those of cockpit crew. Therefore, it is recommended to conduct studies of the above-mentioned issues in cabin crew in order to define specific requirements.



The full report is available at: http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/doc/research/FTL Study Final Report.pdf (http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/doc/research/FTL%20Study%20Final%20Report.pdf)

[lowstandard]

What a knob! Hey, heres a customer service tip for you Edward...Those nice FC passengers who pay a fortune towards our salaries would really appreciate a dining choice before they fall asleep in their comfy suites.

Whoever the cheap t#@t is who decided to cut corners on catering for a few bucks should personally explain to those FC passengers why they can only have one bun and one meal selection for the whole flight.

Dont trip on your knee pads on the way out the door!

[airbus757]

These guys just don't get it. If the pilots are resting better during a long haul flight the odds of an incident costing millions of dollars decrease. If a pillow and/or duvet helps a pilot sleep better on a 15 hour sector then the company should provide it for him.

When these guys heard that we might be taking the pillows from empty pax seats, they should have insisted that extra be put on board for us. The cost can't be that much. Instead they turn it on us, insist we are doing things wrong, and if caught will be getting a trip to see the Chief Pilot.

We are just trying to get some sleep. Put some extra pillows, blankets, and duvets on board for the pilots. The life you save may be your own.

7

[chuckunu]

MAN this is fun to watch. as a newer Airline you people do have a bunch of government style fools running the p[lace. filled with rules on top of rules and NO one to fix issues , just make more rules.. I am sorry for you guys, and Girls. zMost newer Airlines take decades to get this Mucked up with layers of incompetent Management. record time it seems to have happened there

[Harutamagan]

Isn't the first two letters of E.M.I.R.A.T.E.S. stands for " ENGLISH MANAGED"? others can put up the rest:}

[MosEisley]

So my previous was removed, I'll soften it a bit...

English Management Is Rejecting All The Expat Suggestions

Is that one OK EGGW?:) (I'll admit, the last one was harsh)

[harry the cod]

Sorry, did I miss something?

I thought Sheik Ahmed was Emirati. Didn't realise he had aquired a British Passport. Mind you, half of India have so why shoudn't he!

Harry

ps We could always get the Aussies in but judging by PP's effort at running the training department for several pathetic years, I think the English are better placed......just!

[mini cooper]

English Managed Indian Run Arab............T E S
forgot the rest sorry! :ok:

[ratpoison]

Taking Expat Salaries :{

[wayne_krr]

Wee Peter's from unzud.

[rakedwings]

For those that wanna know Emirates stands for 'English managed Indian run and Tim, Ed, Steely'.:}

[harry the cod]

Wayne

You're quite right.........apologies for insulting the Aussies!

[NO LAND 3]

Ah, but to be fair: just because the company is enlightened enough to allow "controlled rest" (not all companies do) on the flight deck does not mean there has ever been a policy or obligation to provide bedding! If there happen to be spare pillows etc during the cruise I'll happily take advantage, however the point of the comment on the weekly report was that a few pilots are demanding these items as a matter of right, potentially leaving premium passengers without something they've paid for. It's all how you approach it and some of us are our own worst enemies. Regarding the CRC - you'd be hard pressed to make a valid safety argument for dragging extra bedding down to it; whats provided is adequate and meets all the US regs and advisories. Though its location doesn't.
On the other hand the point was poorly made - threats just alienate the audience.

[kiwi]

There is an approved proceedure here (regardless of what other companies have or have not approved!) and items should be provided to enable the rest to be of a good quality.
We operate on two crew operation annex flights of such long duration that this facility is necessary to keep the operation safe.
I agree that there should be no requirement to take the passenger items. There should be a set provided on the flight deck! It only means putting two extra items when the aircraft is serviced by the cleaners.

[mensaboy]

The purpose of controlled rest is to allow pilots to be fit and rested for the more demanding phases of a flight. Requesting a pillow and blanket to help achieve that goal, is not even in the realm of being demanding!

If allegedly a 'few' pilots have demanded these items in an improper manner, then why should the company punish the majority, because of the improper actions of the few? In my 1500+ sectors at this airline, I have never witnessed my colleague demand something to the detriment of ANY passenger. The rationalization for this latest policy is complete and utter BS, yet once again some of us have fallen for the deception.

The net result of this insane policy is yet another lowering of flight safety standards based on the demands of an 'all too powerful' cabin services department.

And NO, never in the history of this airline, has a Premium Cabin pax gone without ANYTHING... because the pilots were snuggled up in caviar-encrusted duvets, soundly sleeping in comfort.

This latest dictate from the ever-wise and intelligent Edward, is yet another example of exactly what is wrong with this airline. Flt Ops has exceptionally poor leadership! Somehow and somewhere in the history of this airline, the other departments have realized that their lives would be so much easier if Flt Ops hired or promoted ineffectual individuals. Without a doubt, they have achieved their goal.

AAR (if he didn't despise pilots so much),TCAS for sure and even ED (if he had any concept of leadership or anything resembling a back-bone), SHOULD have told Cabin Services to grow up! If Cabin Services has a heartache with pilots trying to mitigate fatigue, then the simple solution is to upload extra pillows and blankets on certain flights! What is that.... 2 pillows, 2 blankets at a combined weight of.... 2kgs?????

As for the CRC, why do pilots sometimes take an extra pillow or blanket for their rest? BECAUSE IT BETTER ENABLES THEM TO ACHIEVE PROPER REST!!! Isn't that supposed to be the objective of in-flight rest? Damn, its not like we are requesting silk sleeping garments, hypo-allergenic pillows or even humidifiers that work!

Obviously Emirates has achieved its goal of lowering our expectations so far that some of us are actually trying to rationalize any and all, mandates.
Yeah... we are our own worst enemies!

[airbus757]

I take a duvet from first if there is one available. Believe it or not. the odds of me sleeping go up when I have that duvet. I will keep taking that duvet IF one is available and don't care if it means a trip to the Chief Pilots office. I am drawing the line here.

Just look at the effort the company has put in regarding unstable approaches. If only they would 10% of that effort to reduce overall pilot fatigue and tiredness. EK would be a safer airline, there is no doubt. Come on guys in management wake up. You may not like the pilots, but if one of us has another serious incident, the whole airline pays. You must take a positive interest in our wellbeing.

7

[palm]

Same same, I do the same, do you really think I will put PAX in danger for not having a proper rest, If it is avlb I always take one. F...the FCI, I ll be very happy to discuss about it with the chief.

Peoples from the TOP, don't forget you might have your wife and kids on my flight, so think about SAFETY and pilots well beeing first.....:ugh:

[Watchdog]

FCI?.....what FCI?

A note in the 'weekly news' is not going to make me lose any sleep over it. (yep, pun intended :O )

Fair enough not to rip one from a pax who's stumped up heaps of cash, but otherwise, well I'd look forward to meeting the CP for the first time!

[InnocentBystander]

I now always delete that stupid email unread. Makes for a happier life. :)