Geoff Hoon.................

[tarantonight]

.........................and his forgetfulness. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Discuss.

TN

[VinRouge]

Karma. Aint it a beautiful thing?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Not real Karma tho as the thieving pikey cnut gets to walk away with a pension the size of Bournemouth and no doubt the sort of loyalty he has just shown is just what big business will be queueing up to court :mad:

[jindabyne]

Pond life, at the highest level. What do his children think of him.

[Sootakin]

A corrupt, self-serving grey suit who paradoxically presided over the funding and direction of many thousands of real people who exhibit all the qualities he appears (in the media at least) to lack: charisma, bravery, grit, integrity, honesty and pureness of purpose. The question is: will Dr Fox do a better job than GH and his successors?

[Herod]

The rot lies further up the tree than GH. How many Defence Ministers have you guys had in the last ten years or so? Symptomatic of what the present government thinks of its armed forces.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Not for nothing is he known as 'Buff' Hoon.

His performance this morning on BBC Radio Fours' 'Today' program was shameless and utterly cringeworthy.

In fact, it was a useful illustration (and Hoon dimwittedly played his part) of what a shameless bunch of tw@ts our politicians are.

What will it take for proper service to be resumed?:hmm:

[chiglet]

ISTR that from my time in the RAF, that if more than 5 peeps gather to "discuss" something, it could be classed as mutiny.......or is that an urban myth? :confused:
Otherwise, sign me up for the revolution

[AllTrimDoubt]

Laugh? I nearly.....!!!! He had it coming. Not fit to hold the post over so many who excelled in the qualities he lacked. Let's have his pension too.

[Wyler]

wasted 20 minutes of my life briefing this guy in the Falklands in 2000.

Complete and utter Knob.

[Gainesy]

His performance this morning on BBC Radio Fours' 'Today' program was shameless and utterly cringeworthy.

Agreed. however some Daily Hate Mail Hack called Peter Osborne has just described said schoolboy grovel as "the act of a Gentleman in apology" or words to that effect.

Having heard him, the pompous prick was only sorry he got set up.

Another point, shouldn't Knacker of the Yard be looking at this latest bunch of scum for trying to obtain financial gain unlawfully? I'm sure that there is a specific offence to cover this shower of ****es.

[FantomZorbin]

trying to obtain financial gain unlawfully

Absolutely Gainesy, and in the case of at least one "by deception" of his own admission!!

[MrBernoulli]

Having heard him, the pompous prick was only sorry he got set up.
Spot on, Gainsey. It is a form of words much practised by the current crop politicians.

Folks need to read/listen to Buff's words gain, very carefully - at no point does he actually apologise for his dishonesty. He is only sorry for having been caught doing it, and is embarrassed at that the details being made public. I repeat, he is not apologising for being dishonest. Pathetic, spineless wimp ..... but that seems to be the type attracted to the House Of Commons now. It is a great, big iniquitous cavern full of two-faced, cheating, thieving chimps whose major intent is to rob the tax-payer blind by playing the system, generate a massive pension which they themselves set and vote for, and to then conduct shady deals once their 'time' is over.

And the UK still thinks it has a democracy? :rolleyes:


Wyler,

I recall his visit to the Falklands, and I may have been involved in getting him to the South American mainland at the conclusion of that visit. :ok:

[R SCANDAL]

Mr B,
We must have been in MPA at the same time, because I launched in Albert to rescue you in Montevideo - spoilers, slats knackered? Anyway, had the misfortune to meet him at the XV 179 repatriation. Self-serving, arrogant, deceitful, shoe-staring, disinterested, 24 carat, ocean going prick of a bloke. I would rather be stuck in a lift with Bin Laden that this chodder.
I hope he does porridge and that they put him in a wing with even uglier blokes than himself - that way, in the showers he'll look like Marilyn Monroe.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Self-serving, arrogant, deceitful, shoe-staring, disinterested, 24 carat, ocean going prick of a bloke.
What is it with you youngsters? Always sitting on the fence.
Having listened this morning to our glorious leader's "pledges" I think your colourful description could, or maybe should, be expanded to include the whole sorry mob posing as Government.
OK, back to my fence now.:*

[MrBernoulli]

R SCANDAL,

It might have been a double hydraulic system failure on start-up (fluid pissing all over the place ...... allegedly). But we must be talking about a different event, because Buff went to Santiago, Chile (definitely!) which is where the aircraft shat itself all over the pan.

[Lancelot37]

Maybe he should change his name to Buffoon, in fact the Government should.

[BEagle]

MrB - that wasn't the memorable incident when JC was the navigator, was it?

JC (SF Herk peeps probably know this) had an 'individual' nature which probably wouldn't have identified him as a 'VIP' crewmember.....:uhoh:

One day, they have to take BuffHoon somewhere. He bounds on board, then sticks his face onto the flight deck. JC is in typically 'relaxed' form, slouched sideways across the nav's seat with his feet resting on the jump seat.

Buff glares at him and splutters "Don't make any effort, will you?"
JC looks up in a surprise and announces "Well, since you put it like that, no I won't!"
At which point Buff stomps off the flight deck and the captain has his head in his hands....
"Who the f*** was that wa**er?", asks JC of the rest of the crew, who are all pi$$ing themselves with laughter.

Clearly not up on his MP-recce, was JC. B£oody amusing chap, though - is he still in the mob?

I always thought BuffHoon was the spitting image of a minor childrens' comedian by the name of Freddy 'Parrot Face' Davis:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/FB-1.jpg

[Thelma Viaduct]

Where's the surprise???

All politicians are thieves & liars, that's why they are politicians.

[SRENNAPS]

All politicians are thieves & liars, that's why they are politicians.

So why do our lords and masters (and I am talking about Sqn Ldr and above) suck up to them when they are in power!!!

Sorry, but when the man (JH) visted us twice on deloyed ops, any potential trouble maker was left off the parade and the hierarchy stated he was doing a wonderful job.:ugh::ugh:

wasted 20 minutes of my life briefing this guy in the Falklands in 2000.

Complete and utter Knob.


I take it you told him so!

[MrBernoulli]

BEagle,

JC might have been on that trip, allegedly! I couldn't possibly confirm or deny anything! :E

And no, JC is no longer in the Mob. He works for a flight-checking company now. Met him in a Burford curry house some months back, where he was staying having spent the day flight-checking the Brize navaids. Still in fine form with the patter, too, lol!

[Gainesy]

ISTR a bit of a kerfuffle at Akr in about 1971 when a bunch of tropps were grabbed ad lib and lined up to meet Arnold Wislam who was in transit eastwards; a Cpl from 56 refused to shake his hand or speak to him. No action taken (or possible?) I believe.

[Whenurhappy]

SRENNAPS stated:

"So why do our lords and masters (and I am talking about Sqn Ldr and above) suck up to them when they are in power!!!"
I think, Sg SRENNAPS, you have answered your question. It's about power.

Whether we like it or not, we are behoven to be nice to our 'democratically elected and accountable' politicians because the Department of State (MOD) and the forces assembled under it are under 'transparent democrtic control'. There is no option but to be nice to politicians - ultimately they authorise our budget. In recent years I have attended a number of events around the Whitehall village for the MOD and the RAF in particular. Some MPs have been engaging, interested, genuinely concerned about us; others clearly couldn't give a sh!t and were more interested in the whereabouts of the vol-au-vents and the free fizzy.

Meeting politicians (of any persuasion, except Sinn Fein, perhaps!) is an opportunity to sell our wares, get our corporate message across, develop engagment opportunities and generally raise the role of the Service(s) in the eyes of people who are primarily interested in remaining re-elected, and in the majority of cases, have few dealings with us.. Clearly, if we were rude and hostile to them, the Services would suffer. There are, however, two points:


When we engage with politicians, this is an opportunity to raise concerns we have outside the filtered stovepipes of the SofS's office.
Just because 'senior officers' (not exclusively by the way) appear to 'suck up' to politicians, that doesn't mean they like them!
WP

[UL730]

"So why do our lords and masters (and I am talking about Sqn Ldr and above) suck up to them when they are in power!!!"

Doesn't seem to work that well :eek:

Generals told to travel 2nd class - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7078834.ece)

[BEagle]

Whilst being by no means in awe of the multi-starred ones, some of whom are charmless back-stabbing thrusters with only their own interests at heart, I think this latest announcement is quite ridiculous.

Privileges should be commensurate with status. Once upon a time anyone over the rank of Sqn Ldr travelling on duty by train went First Class. Then that became subject to the whim of the budget-holder, so was no longer an entitlement. ADCs and PSOs used to receive the same allowances as their 'man' if away on duty - then that stopped. Even a humble Plt Off used to get a cup of tea in the morning in the Officers' Mess until that was stopped.

Flag, General and Air Officers bloody well should travel First Class if travelling by train on duty. Period.

There should be some 'perks' to go with a senior position. Take 'staff cars'. The boss of a frontline squadron being entitled to nothing more than a Mini, for heaven's sake. That was back in the 90s - I imagine he gets a pushbike these days as that would be appropriate for the sandaholic 'Strength through Joy' RAF of today. Even the Stn Cdr would only have some heap of junk like a Cavalier. A well-polished Cavalier, that is, with a little flag. The Stn Cdr should have at least an Audi A6 or equivalent.

It's clear that the despicable nuLabor are intent on their socialist Utopia where all animals are equal. Except, of course, for those nuLabor MPs who are more equal than others and whose noses are firmly in the trough. When they're not hiring themselves for financial gain like some Picadilly whore.

Let's hope they're out on their ears after May 6!

[Dengue_Dude]

Wow, BEagle, I knew the day would come . . .

I agree with you. Now I'm going to sit down and let my pulse rate get back to normal and recover my composure.

Well said.

[forget]

Meet the idiot who dreamt this up. Disgraceful.

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | People | Ministers | Under Secretary of State for Defence and Minister for Veterans (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/People/Ministers/UndersecretaryOfStateForDefenceAndMinisterForVeterans.htm)

[DC10RealMan]

I could just imagine the scene if some of the senior officers of the past such as ACM Sir Arthur Harris, the wartime head of Bomber Command who were renowned for their "robust" views were told that they could not have their staff car and driver, or were told that they had to travel second class. I would imagine that the meeting would be very short!

[SRENNAPS]

Whenurhappy

Many thanks for your excellent reply to my post. I have to admit I agree with everything you have written. As an ex, “so called old wise SNCO”, I did understand the politics involved and how one had to conduct themselves in front of visiting VIPs, especially politicians.

But it still used to annoy me...........:)

By the way I also knew and still know many, many senior officers that I have total respect for. They were/are true leaders and inspirers of all who worked for them. Some of them are in very senior positions now and I know they don’t “suck up”. But, they also get slagged off by some of the faceless people here on this forum.....and that does annoy me. :*

Kind regards

[I'm Off!]

Met GH at a reception at Hampton Court palace a number of years ago, when he was Defence Secretary. Complete c**k - a more arrogant and knowledgeless wan**r you could not meet.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Hoon was always one of the very worst to have to listen to because he'd clearly been programmed to be the ultimate in impenetrable, glassy eyed, on message talking heads, with about as much utility as a talking filing cabinet..
A true apparatchik, he would drone out the party line in tones that just made you want to reach for the remote. He knew he was a complete phoney, we knew it and he knew we knew it.. However, he was a Minister of the Crown, on a minister's pay (and pension) and he was in the driving seat and couldn't give a monkey's.
Now though? A discredited cardboard figure but his hide is so thick that he won't give a toss. People like him need nailing.
sv

[Royalistflyer]

My experience of briefing politicians - ministers and the PM - no matter what party - no matter how nice the man was - they were so damnably easy to wind up and point in a direction. If you were unscrupulous enough, you could tell them almost anything. With a little careful forethought you could usually get what you wanted.

[tarantonight]

Thanks for response one and all. I will strike him off my Christmas Card list.

TN.

[Collapsar]

I rather like the moniker that the ArRSe community have given, to quote Norman Stanley Fletcher, this charmless nerk. Over there he is referred to as TCH, an entirely appropriate nickname I believe.

TCH - ARRSEpedia (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/TCH)

[Herc-u-lease]

not too long ago we had a good Ainsworth thread which also highlighted his shortcomings.

In our opinion, who is the worst? although Ainsworth may seem inept (the lack of being able to pronounce an aitch drops him way down on my list) at least he hasn't been dishonest (or not caught yet).

so who's worse, Hoon or Ainsworth?

[Lyneham Lad]

I rather like the moniker that the ArRSe community have given, to quote Norman Stanley Fletcher, this charmless nerk. Over there he is referred to as TCH, an entirely appropriate nickname I believe.

TCH - ARRSEpedia

Just clicked on the link - should not have been taking a swig of coffee at the same time - now need a new keyboard...

:D

[Jig Peter]

Thanks for the warning, Lyneham Lad - saved my AZERTY from a drenching ...
Easterly Greetings to all

:ok::ok::ok:

[PhamousPhotographer]

TCH - ARRSEpedia
If you trawl round the Iraq/Stan threads you’ll find TCB as well. Funny that – always thought his initials were ACLB!! Allegedly, the last CGS used the former versions too!! Wonder why?

[hanoijane]

Dear Mods,

As this is your playground you're quite at liberty to allow any game you please, but to delete my post(s) simply because i questioned the relevance of wasting time, energy and intellect on demonizing an individual and making various unsubstantiated allegations about his performance - which may or may not be true, I couldn't care less - smacks of gross stupidity.

Read your own rules. These paper tigers, and the comments they've made here, clearly belong in Jet Blast. I read this section for informed comment on military aviation and military aviators. I don't read it to hear tales about politicians.

Bur perhaps I'm in a minority of one?

[Finningley Boy]

On the face of it, Geoff Hoon has got to be the worst Defence Secretary, when compared to R. Ainsworth given the recent revelations about "idiot for hire" services. But more so, this is the Defence Secretary who presided over the decimation of the country's frontline forces by handing the Defence Budget to the Treasury, at the time in the hands of Mr G. Brown.:ugh:

This is the man who left Defence matters in a far more diminished state than need have been the case.:ouch:

FB

[cazatou]

hanoijane

Re your #39.

It is difficult to see how a thread could adequately discuss the attributes of "Buff" Hoon without some indication of "gross stupidity". The best that could be said of him was that he was an improvement on "Sleepy Fred".

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

hanoijane
If you don't like the thread or the comments, don't read it....it's not compulsory1
This just happens to be a military thread and many here have been affected by the incompetance of Hoon (and most other socialist ministers) and this is the right place for the military and those associated with it to sound off their opinions.:=

[hanoijane]

I'll comment wherever I see fit, ROG, but thanks for the heads-up re: your perspective on open forums :)

Boys and girls, trying to suggest - as you seem to be doing - that incompetent (or is it incontinent?) politicians are responsible for your woes is to avoid looking at your own contribution to your current situation. A cynic might suggest you are your own worst enemies in this regard. For example, bitching about the loss of first-class travel for senior officers as your country slowly disintegrates around your ears doesn't strike me as being a particularly smart move.

We all get the politicians we deserve. None of us are immune from the whims of these fellows, it's just that some politicians accidentally make smart choices. Which is why we seem to be choosing rather nice flying machines and you.. well... you know what your guys are buying :)

Oh, and thanks mods. I apologise for my ill-chosen remark about your actions being grossly stupid. Events would suggest that you're actually quite tolerant..

[JamesA]

Many thanks for the pointer of the abreviation.
As we would say in the trade 'His wife has two - and he is one of them.'

[cazatou]

hanoijane

Please enlighten me - exactly what nice new aeroplanes are the Vietnamese buying?

[hanoijane]

But... but... I thought you were discussing politicians?

Well, you can never be sure until you see them sitting on the concrete, but it's been widely reported we're getting some shiny SU30MK's in the next year or so. I know the airframes aren't as important as the fiddly bits that come with them, but as we're getting on well with our Russian chums at the moment we may get some white toys to hang on the pylons.

Personally, I think we're in danger of fussing about events too far from the homeland (does that sound familiar?). The good thing about the '21's is that they limit your range and direction of interest, if you get my drift...

[cazatou]

hanoijane

Discussing Politicians? - certainly not!!!

We were merely commenting on the less than endearing foibles which affected their ability to do the job that they were paid to do.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

I read this section for informed comment on military aviation and military aviators. I don't read it to hear tales about politicians.Your words hanoijane and so I repeat that if you don't like what you read then don't read it.
I'll comment wherever I see fit, ROG, but thanks for the heads-up re: your perspective on open forumsomment here I don't believe I said you couldn't comment but if English is not your first language I could understand that you may be confused.
The thread concerns an ex Minister of Defence (or whtever he was called) and the individuals most affected by his "decisions" are to be found on this Military aircraft forum and not on Jet Blast.
Whilst I don't agree with you, it's good to see you joining the debate.:ok:

[BEagle]

Some years ago, we led one of those dog and pony show things for a visiting (shadow?) defence minister, Lord Soames. 3 tankers, plus lots of receivers..

My crew had been allocated a VC10K2 which, as was often the case back then, had a restricted fuel load. So, as a small change to the plan, we asked whether the K3 would give us our extra fuel as soon as we coasted out; this could then be observed by Soames in the C1K from echelon.

The K3 crew readily agreed, but the reply from the shiny crew was a bit non-operational: "Aaah, we're just serving luncheon, so we would rather you waited until later....."

:hmm:

"Well, we'll change lead after the corridor, and if the K3 trails at coast out, we'll prod asap. If Bunter can get his snout out of the trough in time, you can watch - otherwise hold clear!", we replied.

"Aaah - you will be pleased to know that His Lordship is no longer on headset", the shiny crew sniffily replied.....:\

Ooops....:ooh:

[Descend to What Height?!?]

At an Air Show displaced from it's usual home to an airfield in Eastern England in 2000, said Buffhoon was doing the tours of "his" aircraft. In a beige linen suite. Not best suited for clambering around HMs finest!

As we were guiding him around our aircraft, we "accidentally" managed to stop to point out an interesting bit of kit, with the Minister possitioned just under a hydraulic leak. Oops! :ok::eek::ok:

Accidents do happen!

Although the boss was none too happy when he found out.

[PhamousPhotographer]

"Aaah - you will be pleased to know that His Lordship is no longer on headset" Belongs in SHFNI Stories, but fits this thread too. The Right Rev’d TVB (Top Vicar Bloke) and his entourage were on board Walter during a VIP transit down among the Violets. On the pre-flight brief, the crew had noticed a large ornate gemstone on one of the Vicar’s pinkies. Bored, and forgetting that everyone was on live pax headsets, the captain confided his innermost thoughts to the nav, “Hasn’t the Vicar got a huge ring? Wonder if he’d let me see it? Rightoh, Bend over Vicar.”:\

Silence reigned for the rest of the trip, followed by howls of laughter when the guests departed.:D

[NutLoose]

Posted elsewhere, but I found it humorous

A US army platoon was marching north of Fallujah when they came upon an
Iraqi insurgent, badly injured and unconscious on the left-hand side of
The road.

On the right-hand side was a British soldier in a similar, but less
Serious state. The Brit was conscious and alert. As first aid was given
To both men, the platoon leader asked the injured soldier what had
Happened.

The soldier reported: "I was recce-ing the highway here when suddenly,
Coming towards me from the south was a heavily-armed insurgent. We saw
Each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.

"I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein was a miserable, lowlife scumbag
Who'd got what he deserved. The insurgent yelled back that Gordon Brown
Is a fat, useless, lying, one-eyed porridge wog. And furthermore, Lord
Mandelson is a pillow-biting gay bastard!

"So I said that Osama Bin Laden dresses and ponces about like a frigid,
Hatchet-faced lesbian.

"He retaliated by shouting that so does Harriet Harman.

"And, there we were - in the middle of the road - shaking hands, when a
f**king bus hit us.


Totally off topic, but hey it does some up Gordon Brown quite well ;)