fire fighting helicopter

[JOURNIOO4]

Flocks we are going to upgrade our aerial firefighting fleet, I need your advice concerning the type of helicopter using belly tank (medium helicopter)

Best regards

[Gordy]

Really need a bit more information to help you, here are just a few questions to get you started:

What fuel types?

Do you want to rappel?

Do you need multi-capability?

What size?

How much money do you have?

New or used?

With crews or without?

What sort of elevations would they need to operate at?

[JOURNIOO4]

Thank you for fast reply
fuel / jb1
with rappelling & multi capability
Medium helicopter
Brand new
very hot climate

[aegir]

Hi,
what do you mean with "medium"? what are the max external dimensions?

if you PM me your e-mail I could send you all the information you need.

[Gordy]

I guess he means standard sizing

Type-I (Heavy) - Skycrane / S-61 / 214ST
Type-II (Medium) - Bell 205
Type-III (Light) - Jetranger / Md-500

Helicopter Classification per USFS:

Type I, Heavy: 700 gal water, 16 seats including the pilot, allowable payload 5000 lbs. (e.g.: Boeing-234, S-64, AS-332, Vertol-107)

Type II, Medium: 300 gal water, 10 seats including the pilot, allowable payload 2500 lbs. (e.g.: Bell-212, Bell-205, BK-117, S-58)

Type III, Light: 100 gal water, 5 seats including the pilot, allowable payload 1200 lbs. (e.g.: Bell-206B-III, 206L, Lama, MD-500, AS-350)

Type IV: 75 gal water, 3 seats including the pilot, allowable payload 600 lbs. (e.g.: Bell-47, Hiller-12E)

In the medium category, we operate a Huey, (restricted) and a Bell 212 which can be fitted with a tank, and has rappel brackets. It comes down to personal choice I guess...

[aegir]

in Italy we operate almost only the Eurocopter Ecureuil (B3) and one EC135.
But if you need information on other helicopters, I can send you an e-mail.

[zlocko2002]

for firefighting take Mi-8mtv-1 or Ka-32. excellent hot climate capabilities, ruged construction, multi purpose...

[9Aplus]

Or Ka32A11BC with IFEX.....and bambi bucket.
YouTube - Ifex 3000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dklFwnoHfU)

3dklFwnoHfU

on video demo of small system 2x18 l pulse useful up to 50 m distance
and 300 l total fluid on AS350 B2
Ka32 can cary 3-4000 l of fluid and pulse guns are 2x25 useful up
to 75 m distance also in night VFR conditions....

[mickjoebill]

Is the pulse suitable for putting water through an ozzie bush tree canopy to a extinguish small fire below?

Thermal cameras are very good at identifying lighting strike hot spots before they become big enough to be pinpointed by smoke.

Could the combination of this pulse and a thermal camera on an recce aircraft be a good combination to nail the little buggers before they become a major event?

Have experienced the water cannon on the Skycrane many years ago.



Mickjoebill

[9Aplus]

Pulse cycle performs opening of over pressure valve on approx 25 bar pressure,
resulting in 100 micron atomization of water droplets. Speed on exit is approx.
400 km/h.
Small 1 liter hand system is capable to break auto glass or door made of wood.
Big system 25 liter canon can break average tower 6 mm glass from approx.
25 m distance. Each canon is capable to repeat pulse in 4 sec interval, therefore
in twin system each pulse goes on 2 sec interval.

So answer is YES, only question is from what distance/high, infrared camera is
first option to helicopter system, otherwise operator have poor chances for
accurate aiming right bellow helicopter....

100 liter of water from pulse system have same effect like 1000 lit from bambi
bucket or fix-wing fire bomber with pin point precision and possible use in night
VFR conditions. 4000 lit on Ka32 means 160 pulses in 25 liter system equal
in effect to 29 attacks on fire by CL415 fire bomber !!!!!

Image of breaking of bus glass with 1 lit handy pulse system
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/d9aplus/safety/Schmidt_129.jpg

[Gordy]

I am guessing the OP is not interested in urban systems...I suspect he is interested in the wild land fire environment.

[darrenphughes]

I am guessing the OP is not interested in urban systems...I suspect he is interested in the wild land fire environment.


I think these boys have a small case of Squirrel ADHD kinda like Dug the dog!!!

PnD113N4hBU

Damn Squirrels.:}

[9Aplus]

Gordy that urban was just for illustration, how water droplets
are preforming on glass on trees & leafs are even better....
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/d9aplus/safety/Heli-2-1.jpg
tOQGFElvBes&NR

[zlocko2002]

is it (2x25l) biggest they have? if 350b2 uses 2x15l i belive ka-32 could use something bigger than 2x25l...or it could be mounted on smaller-cheaper helicopter. what helicopters are you using for firefighting in lybia

[9Aplus]

2 x 25 lit is max size now, upgrade to bigger may be possible but for sure
need extra development time. Pulse of bigger volume have impact on
airframe too.
It may be better to use second standard 2 x 25 lit canon stacked (4 together)
One pulse per second is nice capability.....3000 liters of major water fluid can
be used than within 120 sec also combined with foam agent too....

See bellow demo of SAFIRE foam used in aviation fire.....
Rhg6YYtoAzA&NR