Bankstown Airport Meter parking

[Mail-man]

Rumour has it that BAL (Bankstown airport limited) are going to impose meter parking around bankstown airport.

As far as i can see GA training in BK already has one foot in the grave.

With impending pilot shortages and training in the toilet, how many more obstacles can be imposed on GA before there is some sort of gov't intervention.

[YPJT]

I wouldn't put anything past BAL but I wonder how they will go recovering unpaid fines? The WA dept of infrastrucure recently found itself in very hot water indeed passing on registered vehicle owner details to private companies.

[smiling monkey]

How much does BAL currently charge for landing charges (say for a C172) and aircraft parking?

[Arnold E]

With impending pilot shortages and training
You cant be serious??

[KittyKatKaper]

Two seperate entities, two seperate invoices.

BAL (or whatever they call themselves this week) charge (light) aircraft parking at about $13 per tonne per day, the discount for payment in advance is not worth the loss of cash-on-hand plus the loss of bank interest.

ASA charge around $15 per full stop movement.

[Mail-man]

With regards to pilot shortage and training in the toilet, theyre just personal observations of the decline in flight schools, aircraft movements and cpl's being issued to australian students.

[Peter Fanelli]

Flying training must be falling off if the schools are trotting out the pilot shortage ruse again.

[K3nnyboy]

I think BAL is trying to kick out some flying school so that they could make room for Regional carriers such as REX??

Surely they'd be running low on $$, cos they've been doing alot of construction work around right??

by the way, as far as I know, did one of the flying school close down recently at YSBK??

[LeadSled]

I think BAL is trying to kick out some flying school so that they could make room for Regional carriers such as REX??Folks,
With the recently announced 6000% (yes, 6000, that's not a typo) increase on the GA apron at Mascot, anything is possible. The new rate (if the Minister and ACCC sit on their blots) will be a minimum of $35 per 15 minutes. Rex are screaming like mad. The GA apron is not subject to the price restrictions at the terminals ---- but 6000% should get somebody's attention??? ---- paying the same for a small GA aircraft and an A380???

If SACL get away with this, imagine the try-on we will see from BAL.

No more light/night freight at Mascot, the GA apron is one of the areas where a shopping development has already been knocked back.

Tootle pip!!

[nick2007]

I heard a similar rumour about parking limitations at Bankstown airport a couple of years back, thankfully nothing became of it. There are always rumours about BAL, and there are lots of suspicious folk at BK.

Mind you, it should go nicely with the 10km/h speed limit on Airport Ave. :rolleyes:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Leadsled, Dick seems to listen to your advice. Convince him to take up this argument with the government..Parking space is far more important than airspace changes. GA needs room to do business. GA needs to be treated the same as any mode of transport. Convince Dick, aprons and runways are PUBLIC ROADS. AND not just any public road but a National Highway.

The Feds didn't think this through. It was one thing to sell off the leases, it was another to give control over the movement areas of those leases. Ask the local council how hard it would be to close one of the streets on the public side of the fence because you want to build a shopping mall.

Dick could actually win this! I would rather remember him for saving the aerodromes rather than the huge mess he is creating in airspace reform.

Cummon Dick, howaboutit:ok:

[LeadSled]

With impending pilot shortages and training
You can't be serious??

Well, Arnold, the Government thinks so, hence pilots being on the 457 visa lists, and the number of sponsored pilots coming into Australia on said 457 visa.

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Philippines, Japan, Zimbabwe and South Africa nationals have relatively recently come into Australia. Obviously, this is federal Government's answer to training and experience problems in flying training in Australia.

Actually, it is not much different to what is going on with skilled labor in WA and Queensland generally, where foreign nationals on a 457 are preferred, for the several obvious reasons.

We might have quite a few unemployed CPLs around, whether they are employable or not is another issue altogether.

Tootle pip!!

[K3nnyboy]

YUP~~~they made me go-around (drove-around) in my car for no particular reasons on the weekend. Sooner or later we're gonna have to get Clearance from 119.9 to transit through Tower Road~~~:suspect:

[GoNorth]

Anyone else notice the lack of "road work" on the link road despite it being closed for "road work", good one BAL, nicely done there

If you're talking about Tower Rd then the "closed for road works" no longer exits as BAL have decided to close it permanently!

[K3nnyboy]

is it because they're extending RWY Centre?

[Ultralights]

no, quite simply its cheaper to close the road than to maintain it.

[KittyKatKaper]

Somehow with BAL, It would not surprise me if that had been the plan all along.
Another day, another day of increased charges, another day of reduced services

[Horatio Leafblower]

Folks,
With the recently announced 6000% (yes, 6000, that's not a typo) increase on the GA apron at Mascot, anything is possible. The new rate (if the Minister and ACCC sit on their blots) will be a minimum of $35 per 15 minutes.

Leadsled

I am a regular user of DOM5. I have checked the SACL website and their pricing options but can't see any such notification.

Can you point me to a document so I can put it in the right hands?

Ta.

[goin'flyin]

Horatio - check your work email - copy of the letter has been sent to that.

Cheers.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Thanks GF.

Holy crap :eek:

So parking a Baron at DOM5 from 8am to 4pm = 8 hours x 4 x 38.50 = $1380 in parking.

When the airports were privatised the Howard Govt justified it by calling it "competition".

Nothing like handing your mates a monopoly business, eh? :rolleyes: :mad:

[K3nnyboy]

I gotta give Howard credit for being such a sucessful businessman, thx for stuffing up the industry.... :ok:

[ciscodiscocisco]

firstable BAL charging for parking is a joke apparently we have to pay everytime we park the cars next to our maintenance hanger along tower road, im just waiting for BAL to do that and they will see war!!!!!!.

Second if you are a private owner and want free parking outside in the paddock just pretend its in for maintenance and cover both the rego on the tail or under the wing with paper either newspaper or sticky tape.

[max1]

If SACL get away with this, imagine the try-on we will see from BAL.
Is Max Moore-Wilton still 'running' SACL?

[das Uber Soldat]

so if this comes into effect what do the bank runners do when they have to park their cars from 6am to 8pm?

[kimwestt]

The bloke that passes for a manager of BAL, and in particular the Tower Road fiasco was, the week before last, asked (in public) when he was going to reopen Tower Road. With absolute, and typical arrogant disregard for the questioner, and anybody else, the reply was "Quote -"When I am good and ready, and not before." End of quote. If he spoke to someone like that in a pub, he would have had his lights put out. Come to think of it .............:mad:

[walschaert valve]

In the newsletter today, users will be expected to pay for their car parking, permanent and casual.

Nothing more than a money grab by BAL.

[kimwestt]

Really - The scenario might well be thus -
"Dear Minister,
Although the requirement is to operate and maintain Bankstown Airport as an Aviation facility, there are now insufficient Aviation businesses on the Airport to continue to justify maintaining this facility as an Airport. We, the owners, would request that any caveat over the facility requiring the continuance of that facility, as an aviation based facility, be removed, and thus allow us (the owners) to redevelop the facility as a business park."
Note:-
The closure of Tower Road, allegedly permanently, must give some indication of the intentions of the owners. ie Stuff the aviation operators, we, the owners will make the rules. Too bad that most of the tenants can't afford the rent increases!!!!

[Flying Kites]

The viewing area at Tower Rd where folks take their kids to already has NO STOPPING signs all over the shop, although I've yet to hear of anyone being told to move on or worse still, fined.


Looks like the KFC carpark is going to get abit full!

[Worrals in the wilds]

YOU ARE AN AIRPORT you idiots, not property developers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are a few Airport 'owners' across the country that need to be reminded of this, preferably by the real owners of the airports, namely the Crown as per the Airports Act 1996. I'm sure it will happen one day. :ugh:

Only when the last runway has been developed
Will you realise townhouses / light industrial cannot be landed on.

(Shameless bastardization of the Cree Native American 'money cannot be eaten' philosophy)

[sprocket check]

I think it must be said that in the minds of the government and vast majority of Australian population aviation is no longer the essential service to the community it once was.

Definitely true for GA, I'd say.

[K3nnyboy]

I think sooner or later there's gonna be some sort of actions taken by all of us or those who are affected in a way or two at least.....

BAL just need to wake the :mad: up!!! They're gonna kill YSBK and possibly the industry~~~:ugh:

[sprocket check]

I think sooner or later there's gonna be some sort of actions taken by all of us or those who are affected in a way or two at least.....

I doubt it. The economic reality for operators won't allow for a stoppage, they will go under if pilots do another stop work. Much more likely to happen is BK closing down than the industry coming together for a common cause. Primarily because it doesn't have a leader with a strong enough hand with a clear vision to unite it and/or control the various factions and interests.

If BK doesn't go to RPT and freight only it will close down. That will most likely be the ultimatum to the government by BAL-let us do this or we have no other option. All the rest will go to Goulburn or somewhere else or disappear. It is clear that there is no room for an airport like BK in Sydney without RPT to make REAL money for MacBank.

Just my hypothesis, only 'cause I can 'cause it's PPRUNE after all:}

sc

btw BAL are VERY awake, make no mistake...

[dhavillandpilot]

If BK doesn't go to RPT and freight only it will close down. That will most likely be the ultimatum to the government by BAL-let us do this or we have no other option. All the rest will go to Goulburn or somewhere else or disappear. It is clear that there is no room for an airport like BK in Sydney without RPT to make REAL money for MacBank.

WRONG BANK TRY COMMONWEALTH BANK WITH TOLL.

[sprocket check]

BAL is owned by:

JF Infrastructure, Colonial First State and Westscheme, as far as I care to search.

JF Infrastructure is
50% Leighton
50% Mirvac

Colonial First State is indeed CommBank, it seems MacBank sold all their airport stock off to CommBank since last time I looked

Westscheme is a superannuation fund

An interesting article on how CFS views airports:
Money management (http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/Article/Infrastructure-Turbulence-creates-opportunity-in-airports/504956.aspx)

All of the above want to make money out of it. One way or another. None I am sure care about GA. Whatever will make more money. At the end of the day, they all ARE property developers.

[Stikybeke]

This is getting worse by the day... the following is from the April 2010 Metroflyer newsletter (accessible from the BAL website). The word is at Eddy's that this is going to happen as of 01 July 2010. What little that is left of YSBK will now surely commence to completely disappear...on another note, I saw just ONE aircraft (a C206) parked on the grass near where Aerospace used to be today....just ONE.

This whole arrangement is nothing short of disgusting and seems to fly in complete contrast and conflict to what is purported in their supposed "Master plan 2010". KimWestt is right. In fact you're all correct. It's a disgrace.
:(

Parking at Sydney Metro Airport Bankstown

Bankstown Airport Limited will be introducing parking controls on Sydney Metro Airport Bankstown from mid 2010 onwards.

These controls will provide areas for staff and visitor parking and ensure that emergency access ways are free from parked cars. Part of these parking controls will be the introduction of Pay for Parking, requiring all users of the Airport to either purchase a parking permit or pay for casual parking.

The initial roll out of ’pay for parking’ will occur on the northern side of the airport prior to extending airport wide and is expected to be in place later in 2010.

Over the next few months we will be talking to tenants and airport users about their parking requirements and the proposed parking changes on our Airport.

[Scion]

I do not know but this may be symptomatic of a deeper problem with BAL. When a business is about to go under there is usually a period of increased activity to acheive a cash flow by whatever means. BAL will have lost the rent from Boeing as they move out and that will be a considerable sum.

As this is a rumour website, it would appear Mr Ellis is retiring soon and he is the designer of many of the BAL initiatives to extort monies from the tennants.

Recently there was the debacle of the school to be built at the airport and there have been a series of silliness over the past years with modified "Masterplans" and other such things.

Next we may wait for receivers to be "in discussion"!!!

[das Uber Soldat]

*raises glass*

Cheers, here is to BAL going bankupt, the sooner the better. @$!@ed if im going to pay for a parking permit, ill park on the street and walk down.

Pathetic.

[C82R]

There is a strong suggestion that the same is going to happen at AF and AAC has brought in the consultants .

[Jenna Talia]

I wonder if Camden is next?

JT

[Cactusjack]

The Gold Coast Meter Maids have just had their services terminated. Perhaps if they did the rounds at Bankstown Airport the airport the impact of the charges would be 'less painful' ?

[FokkerInYour12]

Superglue or resin coated coins in the meters will make them think twice.

[Ultralights]

i have spent 3 days trying to secure a permanent spot at YSBK, being passed off to so many different department its not funny, i the end, the lady at property department just told me to park anywhere i want...... :ugh:

[Scion]

BAL are now collecting data on movements to move to a movement charge on the airport rather than a day charge. or will it be on top of a day charge?

I really don't know but that could affect the flying schools a lot.

It does seem that they are frantically trying to get their cash flow improved as they seem to have reached a limit with their rental increases.

The question needs to be asked "how solvent are they?"

[Ideal Line]

Noticed some machinery on the link road on the way in today, so what's the story? Are the fixing it or just looking busy??

It is very expensive to have machinery sitting around doing nothing. I would suggest they are actually doing something.

[goin'flyin]

All the machinery is for the works on RWY C.

Amazing how Tower/Link road was fine for so long, then as soon as the bus company moved onto the airport the road started to fall apart. I wonder how much money the bus company has put towards the repair costs for Tower/Link Road which they have destroyed. :ugh::ugh:

[GADRIVR]

So....... apparently BAL or it's parent company/ies was put into recievership yesterday. Interesting times:D

[FokkerInYour12]

BAC Airports Pty Limited has two wholly owned subsidiaries:
Bankstown Airport Limited
Camden Airport Limited

BAC Airports Pty Ltd documents at ASIC:
ASIC Free Company Name Search (http://www2.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=105_905_655&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

Bankstown Airport Limited:
ASIC Free Company Name Search (http://www2.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=083_058_637&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

No mention here yet of any administration but it is a document they have to submit to ASIC in a reasonable timely manner.

[Crescent]

Tower Rd is never reopening in accordance with the BAL 2010 Masterplan on the BAL website - it will disappear under RWY C lengthening, and the deliberate division of the airport into southern and northern precincts. Expect the southern side tenants to be moved to the northern side, and the southern side to become non-aviation tenancies. There are the rental returns..... and the need to win their court action. The Rwy extension is there to accomodate the likes of the E-Jets to provide an increase in RPT traffic. It's all there in the public domain, straight from the BAL master plan.

[sprocket check]

What's your source GADRIVR?

Anyone seen this?

Sydney Metro Airport (http://www.bankstownairport.com.au/Press_Office/Press_Releases/Press_Releases_2010/Sydney_Metro_Airport_Bankstown_New_Home_For_KISS.aspx)

[sprocket check]

And now it seems the chap who sold off the airports....

Mr Colin Grove will replace the company's current Chief Executive Officer, Mr Kim Ellis, who after 9 years, will be leaving the company in June 2010.

The Chairman and Board of BAC Airports have thanked Kim for his leadership and commitment to developing the company and the airports over the past nine years.

Colin has held various senior positions within the aviation industry over an 18 year time span. Up until 2008, Colin held the position of General Manager Property Development and Commercial Trading at the privatized Sydney Airport Corporation Ltd and was a member of Sydney Airports Executive Management Team. Prior to this, Colin was the National Manager Leasing for the Federal Airports Corporation with responsibility for leasing and property development at the Corporations original 20 Airports.

After leaving Sydney Airport, Colin has been engaged as an adviser to some of Australia’s largest property owners, transport operators and a number Government organizations, with a most recent appointment as the Director of Property Acquisitions and Commercial Redevelopment for the Sydney Metro Rail project.

Prior to his aviation career, Colin was employed in senior management roles at the then Richard Ellis Real Estate in Sydney and also for a number of major property developers.

Colin will commence his appointment on 15 June and will be assisted with his transition by Kim Ellis who will finish on Wednesday 30 June.

[Scion]

Schadenfreude, and all of that but it does raise an interesting implication.

If an AOC holder goes into administration CASA takes quite a dim view, and rightly so, of their ability to keep funds up to their safety requirements.

Will CASA then take action to observe or even withdraw their approval to operate an aerodrome?

To be evan handed in their operation it would seem that they must or this will be a precedent in the future when small companies are in difficulty.

Then the bag of worms is really opened and the Government must take some action over the debacle of the sale of all the airports.

[Up-into-the-air]

I hear BAL is now in some financial trouble with liquidators called into a subsidiary.

Perhaps the CHEP proposal at the western end of the runways should be talked about and it's effect on wind on landing and takeoff, much less than physical infringement of the strips - height and splay. See the BAL web site for details and write to the Minister.

[Joker 10]

I wouldn't worry too much, seems the investment company is close to Liquidation, watch this space for some meaningful and interesting fallout.

[SawThe Light]

How many noticed the small news item in the aviation section of Friday's Australian newspaper which read:

"There were few tears at Bankstown Airport this week after aviation tenants received news that a dispute had sparked the collapse of a $300 million Bankstown Airport Corporation development company. The collapse comes as Bankstown identities Ray Clamback and Aminta Hennessy have organised an event in support of flying training schools at the airport on June 20."

[polair911]

sounds like a C & H has done a fair bit of damage to BKL....If that's the only way to keep GA going, then good work to all !!! :ok:

[Scion]

It seems that the investment company is DAVCO which is owned by some other companys.

I find it difficult to understand the relationships between them all and the full implications to the operations at BK.

If BAL are part owners of this company are they responsible for it's debts and when they refinance their operations will this have an effect on those willing to lend to them?

In other words is there a danger of them being insolvent as well and is the retirement of Mr Ellis a symptom of a sinking ship?

[Biggles_in_Oz]

One of the early signs of an outfit in trouble is when they start asking for money earlier.
From Sydney Metro Airports (BAL) latest price changes ... the term for accounts will be come 21 days effective the July 2010 accounts ...

[FokkerInYour12]

In general, shareholders of a company are not responsible for its debts.

However, if the company trades whilst being insolvent then the directors of the company are liable for paying creditors accounts, ATO for PAYG and GST taxes.

If the company is a subsidiary of a holding company, then the parent holding company is liable for the debts if it didn't prevent the subsidiary trading whilst insolvent.

[Scion]

Thanks Fokkerinyour12 for that explanation.

I wouldnt think that they traded whilst insolvent though somewhere it was quoted that they had debts of 50 odd million to eliminate.

However I would guess that most of these companies would have borrowed a lot to set themselves up so I guess when the next round of refinancing occurs then there may be a crunch depending on the overall financial situation.

My speculation is that anyone providing goods and services to BAL should really keep this all in mind.