What the??? $99 for 10 minute Engrish exam!?!?!?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Do I understand correctly that once I pass all seven parts of the ATPL exam (which are all written in English as far as I am aware) I still have to pay $99.00 for a ten minute exam? If I'm going to fork out that much money to talk to somebody I'm going to want some sort of chaise lounge or other comfy couch and a bit of psychotherapy.

Do the other "service providers" charge the same incredible amount for TEN MINUTES?

FRQ CB

PS I suppose that I can't complain too much as I don't really want to stick around for more than ten minutes.

[beat ups are fun]

all seven parts of the ATPL exam (which are all written in English as far as I am aware)

Yeah I was blown away when I had to pay to find out that I can speak english too. If you can find a CFI at a school that trains overseas students they usually have the training to sign you off, and most don't charge like wounded bulls.

[Pinky the pilot]

A $99 fee just to talk to someone for ten minutes?:confused:

Struth!! I suspect that even the better class of a certain group of 'Ladies' would'nt even charge that much for just a chat.:hmm:

Glad I got the ATPL exams (all two of them at the time) done and out of the way back in '92.:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Same here Pinky, just another reason the profession has become as popular as a pork chop at a Jewish Christening!

CASA, you're a bunch of D!ckhe@ds!!! :D

[Howard Hughes]

Qué?:E

And some more words to meet the minimum number!

[blumoon]

And you don't even talk to a 'REAL' person... I had a recorded message voicemail type phone test when i did mine through ASL. :{

Unfortunately i didn't know about CFI's being able to sign it off :}

oh well it's another 'tick in the box'

[PLovett]

Got mine done when I did my last instrument rating renewal.

I asked the ATO if he also had the necessary to do the certificate and as we had been talking for about 30 minutes he just handed the form to me and told me to fill it in.

Very decent chap who didn't charge me for that part of the proceedings. :ok:

Couple of months later and copious amounts of paper with appropriate signatures I had my ATPL. :cool:

[ozblackbox]

Yep, took me 10min as well and $99.

Finished my ATP's last year as well and as if that isn't an English test in itself.

You fly in Australian airspace and you speak English and you have to listen to a French ATC who later becomes a pilot (role reversal), an Asian pilot and some pilot that sounds like he's from Upper Uzbekistan.

Nonetheless, having spent the $99, I still hear pilots out there that don't understand ATC or ATC don't understand them.

[scavenger]

Not everyone flying in oz is a level 6 expert speaker. There are levels 1 - 6 and you only need level 4 or higher to obtain a licence.

The advantage of level 6 is that you never need to take another test (unless they change the rules again). Level 4 requires a test every 3 years and level 5 every 6 years.

$99 bucks is too much for the service you get. I charge 50 for the level 6 but 0 if its part of a licence test. i think this is pretty standard.

The ability to conduct level 6 assessments has nothing to do with being a cfi, its completely different to the cfi english assessment for a sudent licence.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

pork chop at a Jewish Christening

Jewish Christening? :)

Damn. I thought I was about to learn that I misread the requirements. I reckon I'll check with the ATO at my next IR renewal.

FRQ CB

[Pinky the pilot]

Jewish Christening?

Oy Vey!!:eek:
I wondered about that too!:hmm:
Wedding or Bar Mitzvah would suffice.
And I'm not even Jewish already!

Quite seriously, is this fair dinkum? Any person sitting the ATPL has to shell out 99 'shekels' for an (expletive deleted) English aural test, even if he/she is an Aussie citizen?:rolleyes:

The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.:mad::mad:

[PLovett]

Actually Pinky, it gets worse. :sad:

You might be aware that all ATC types have an ICAO licence to sort out the flying bits of metal. They are also required to have a certificate that they can speak English. However, should they be so silly as to also have a pilots licence then their ICAO certificate for being an ATC type who can speak English is not acceptable to CASA for their pilots licence. :ugh:

[Aerlik]

Word of warning, there's a certain ATO in and around Jandakot who is/was charging hundreds for the same exam.

[Wally Mk2]

Agreed shear madness, (Plovett that astounds me!!!!) Someone is responsible for dreaming up that rubbish! But the question has to be asked why? Why now? I reckon it's because up until recent times pilots using the airwaves where mostly Caucasian speaking Engrishmen/shilers. Now we have the airwaves full of not so good speaking Engrish foreign students hence after some level of complaint (from us Good Engrish speaking pilots/ATC'ers) the boffins have done something about it for good or bad, shame it ain't working too good though I'd like a buck for ever R/T exchange I have overheard that I struggle to understand what they are saying. EG: Aerial work over an aid, me takes me hat off to the ATC'ers who have excellent verbal filters in their bag of ATC tricks!:ok:
I know we have to have fees etc it's all about total cost recovery (the only transport industry that's not subsidized) but man some common sense wouldn't go astray here!!!

What next? A charge for not sitting upright in yr pilots seat?:sad:

Wmk2

[Pinky the pilot]

Although he has had an ATPL for quite a few years now, I'd love to sit in on someone trying to give Chimbu Chuckles an Engrish aural test.:E

He would most likely start swearing at the examiner in Tok Pisin.:cool:
And then describe the ancestry of the clown who mandated these tests in English that would probably blister the ears of anyone within earshot.

Come to think on it; I could name quite a number of ex PNG types who could do the above.:hmm:

[frigatebird]

In some countries, that is all that gets results at the time.. - but you get marked for pay-back later..!

[skysook]

I just noticed this thread and would like people to know the choice they have when they to, come accross this most ridiculous hoop to jump through.

You have two choices in order to obtain your level 6 english proficiency certificate...

Go to your local flying school and hire an ATO to conduct the exam. This will cost you $150 and it will waste 1 hour of yours and the ATO's time.

OR

You can go to the ASL exam center and conduct the exam on a phone. It will take less than 10 minutes and you will be $99 worse off.

The choice may be obvious but here's my word of warning...

ASL will make it difficult for you to book a session (since they only conduct the exams on one day the week). Once you complete the exam you then have to wait another week to get the result. But wait! Here's the worst bit...They will charge you $55 to actually see the result on their website! STING!

I Hope this helps you make a decision on where you want to waste your time and how much of your hard earned dollars you want to throw out!

[zlin77]

Did the ASL exam in January at The Archerfield testing facility, was able to access the result online a few days later for no additional fees, CASA charged the usual $25.00 to re-issue a new licence with the English qualification.

[maverick22]

Just looked it up recently as I too was shocked to find out it's a requirement for upgrading a licence.

CAO 40.0

7 English language proficiency requirements
7.1 For regulation 5.09, a person who applies to CASA, on the commencement of this Order, for a flight crew licence must provide to CASA evidence that he or she has at least an English language proficiency level 4 before the licence can be issued.
7.2 For regulation 5.09, the holder of a flight crew licence issued before 5 March 2008 who, on the commencement of this Order, applies for the issue of a new type of flight crew licence must demonstrate that he or she has an English language proficiency of at least level 4 before the new type of licence can be issued.
7.3 The holder of a flight crew licence who has demonstrated to CASA that he or she meets the requirements of a level of English proficiency may apply to CASA for the level of English proficiency to be entered on his or her licence.
7.4 The holder of a flight crew licence who performs international operations
must have English language proficiency of at least level 4.

Note The proficiency level must be entered on the licence before commencement of international operations.

Just another hoop to jump through :(

[Stikybeke]

If you want to hear a good example of english proficiency....just ring CASA and ask to speak to someone that can provide you advice as to how to apply for a Special Certificate of Airworthiness....you won't be dissapointed!!!!!

I can understand the rationale behind this i.e. weeding out some who perhaps don't have the dialectual proficiency due to recent relocation from another country to operate in our skies but really....if you were born here, you went to school here and you passed all of your english exams here and you have been working here all of your working life, wouldn't that perhaps give an indication of your ability to speak and understand the language....maybe they just need a few boxes to tick as part of the licence issuing process instead of going down this ridiculous road....

Stiky
:ugh:

[maverick22]

My sentiments exactly Stiky.

I posed the question to CASA why, after 8 years of holding a CPL and being born and bred and educated in Australia, I now need to prove I can speak the English language proficiently? Their reply went along the lines it's an ICAO requirement and it's out of their hands. Also, the test is for aviation english, not standard english :confused:. So the flight radio telephone licence isn't worth the piece of paper it's wriiten on!

:ugh:

[Stikybeke]

Thanks Mav,

How foolish of me to not even think of that...I just refreshed my memory from the AIP Gen 3.4 - 15 (4.10.0 - Numerals)....here's a few aviation gems quoted direct from the AIP that'll confirm why we have to do this test:
1 - Wun
2 - Too
3 - Tree
4 - FOWer
5 - Fife
7 - SEV en
8 - Ait
9 - Niner
Decimal - DAY SEE MAL
Hundred - HUN dred
Thousand - TOU SAND

If you're looking for me I'll be in front of the mirror practisin my elocutshun..

Stiky
:ugh:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

My favourite is Q - Kay Bek

FRQ CB

[FOCX]

Question without notice:

Would CASA accept a Lvl 6 from another regulator for your Australian ATPL?

[Neptunus Rex]

If it's any consolation, back in the Old Dart all the Poms have to do it as well. What's more, they don't all achieve Level 6.

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/school.gif

[scavenger]

FOCX

Your overseas assessment will be accepted if it is endorsed on a flight crew licence issued by an ICAO contracting state that has complied with the applicable ICAO SARP.

You may want to check here (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90118#q03)