CTC or OAA?!

[lele1704]

Hi everyone,
I am an italian guy who just passed through both the assessments and now has to decide which course to start.
I actually have the opinion that CTC is probably the best academy here in europe,and its Wings cadet program is basically the only one who guarantees you a job at the end of the course.
I just would like to know where to you stand on this.Any suggestions or advices are very welcome.

Regards

Emanuele

[redsnail]

I would spend a few hours reading these pages.

CTC does not guarantee you a job at the end of your course. At best you'll have to fork out over the odds money for a type rating and then you'll be "employed" for 6 months at pittance wages and then turfed out onto the street again.

There is unlikely to be any significant hiring of low houred pilots until 2012 or 2013 at best. The company I work for isn't looking at any hiring of any one until 2013-2014.

My personal opinion, if you are going to have to borrow a significant portion of the training fee, go modular and time to finish your IR during 2012.

If however, you can do the course debt free, then you're in a very fortunate position.

[pilotho]

Do you really think there is such a thing as a guaranteed job? Look at the industry from another angle if you do.

You're going to get loads of comments about you shouldn't train etc. there are loads of threads that starts like this one and ends with people saying you shouldn't train.

My opinion is that there is never a decent time to train, there are always going to be something happening which would affect employment as a pilot. The most important thing is to see which school would be best to train you to be a decent pilot. That's not just being able to fly the aircraft but actually being able to be a decent "airline pilot". You have to remember that today's airline pilots aren't hands on pilots anymore, remembering rules & regulations and being able to program is much more important I think.

Look beyond the big 2 I think. See how many students there are to instructors. Are the planes well maintained? Don't just look at the one they show on an open day, it's bound to be spotless. Also remember that all flying schools would have problems such as tech issues or instructors being ill but ask the students if they are accommodated reasonably quickly.

That's my advice and I am sure a lot of others can contribute.

In bocca al lupo! I think I got that right...

[lele1704]

Thanks for replying.
I was told that since the wings program started,from 2004 to 2008 they placed 100% of the cadets.However,things now are different due to the recession,so there is a waiting list at the moment.Anyway i suppose there will be a sort of contract that i will be supposed to sign which should state that you get a job when the course is finished.
Is there someone who finished the cadet course and is actually working?I would really like hearing something from someone who actually was a wings cadet.

(Thanks for the "in bocca al lupo",it was correct :) I have to say "crepi" ahah)

Regards

[lele1704]

That was just a guess.I mean...How can they say it is a sponsored program?what defines sponsored?I don't believe they can so easily lye to people...
That's why I would like to have a chat with someone who is actually in CTC so he can explain these things to me.

Regards

[RichardH]

It's called "marketing" when translated means sales bull****.
The world, not just aviation is full of it.
In whatever you do make sure you do your own RESEARCH and ask some very difficult and direct questions to any "marketing" spin.

Some rules:-
1. The last pilot shortage was in 1940.
2. There is no such thing as a guaranteed job (even if you did get sponsored).
3. If you are being asked to put money in up front then it is NOT a sponsorship. An "assisted placement" at best.
4. Statistics tell the truth 49% of the time.
5. Caveat emptor (buyer beware).

[lele1704]

I totally understand that...
What is hard to believe is that there are no ctc cadets complaining about anything?!I was there in Dibden,I had the chance to speak with few people on the course and none of them told me anything bad...
I guess they are not well informed as you are...
I spent already 3 hrs looking in others posts here and well,it seems to me that my dream is slowly vanishing...
It's hard to believe that this cadet program is bull****...why other cadets don't say a thing?Is any CTC cadet out there that could spend few minutes writing me something please?
Well...i have all the summer to think very well on this,as the wings course i'm interested in starts in august...

Any other suggestions are welcome!


Regards

[lele1704]

Are you an ex wing cadet john?how do you know those things?

Regards

[beachbum88]

simple save your money and go to neither. Instead look at the modular independent schools, pay half the price and get the same license and you still get the same result. unemployment. sorry to be negative but i find the prices both schools charge ludicrous considering you dont get a job guarantee at the end. Ive meet lots of ctc cadets and they are all in bloody holding pools for years to come. if you have the near 90k the integrated want go modular spend 45k and then maybe spend the rest on a type rating but not untill you have a job.

at the end of the day its up to you but the money in my eyes that OAA and CTC ask for is ludicrous is the most either school can offer at the moment is the possibility of maybe being but in a holding pool with an airline somewhere in the world.

At least with modular you get all the licenses along the way and pay a damn site less.

As i said up to you but consider your options wisely especially if your taking a loan for it.

[UAV689]

What is hard to believe is that there are no ctc cadets complaining about anything?!I was there in Dibden,I had the chance to speak with few people on the course and none of them told me anything bad...

Probably for a number of reasons -

1 - if they get caught bad mouthing CTC and it gets back to the bosses they are going to get a harder time of it, and probably not recomended for future job interviews for being a trouble maker. No one wants to rock the boat.

2 - Probably a lot of them have not paid for the course out of their own money, bank of dad. So they dont think what if they dont get a job, of course they will get a job, they always get what they want...(ok probably a bit generalist that point!)

3 - keeping their head in the sand, wont admit they are up the creek with a 70k loan.

Stay clear of these schemes, in the good times they get people jobs, but so do the modular schools. Save the cash.

[student88]

..but OAA is an 'elite flying school' according to The Sun? :}

Twins are set to soar together | The Sun |News (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2671982/Twins-are-set-to-soar-together.html)

[The African Dude]

John:
All the cadets attending the open day should have been absolutely honest with their feedback, and told attendees that there was absolutely no chance of anyone getting a job (by any normal definition of the word) any time soon. There are still people from the late CP30s/ early CP40s who have not got permanent positions. They must be up to about CP70 (at least by now). So that's 30 courses, with a conservative average of 10 per course, still to be placed.

I just can't understand this. In 6 months we've moved about 80 positions up the holding pool, and it's not through cadets finding jobs elsewhere. I was about 140ish when I jumped in. Trust me, it's not in my interests to be misleading anyone, least of all myself, so don't expect me to lie in order to defend CTC.

You speak with the conviction of somebody who is rock solid in belief of their facts. A good reminder not to believe everything everybody tells you! (Feel free to apply that to my own input if you choose).

For what it's worth, UAV, very few of those on the course with me were funded by their parents, although I guess that might have changed recently with the new secured-financing arrangements through BBVA.

Cheers,
AD.

[R T Jones]

"Oliver and Tobias — the sons of former Premiership footballer Chris Morris — say they hope to be flying for an airline before their 20th birthday in April."

I Like this :)

That story was written in October 2009, I wonder where they are now?

Also to echo The African Dude, the holdpool has been reduced by 80 this year. That is an impressive number given the economic climate. Yes, were not going onto ideal contracts but it's the best of a bad bunch at the moment.

[student88]

Integrated is *so* last year darling.

This summer is all about bankruptcy.

This autumn fashions include modular and a healthier bank balance.

[The African Dude]

40 permanent contracts with easyJet this year to CTC cadets suggests that your 'facts' are incomplete. There being considerably (150) less in the holding pool than you are categorically rock solid sure of suggests the same.

Alright - we all want a permanent contract straight out of training. I didn't get that even as an engineering graduate, not at first. Contract work is becoming the norm. Times have changed and in the current climate this deal is as good as it gets for newly-qualified pilots right now.

So where do we go from here? It's a good thing indeed to point these facts out to prospective applicants. It is also not wrong to say that, when you look at the state of the industry, CTC is doing very well. People are in bankruptcy all over the place, not just in the airline industry. Life is hard. Those are the facts.

[The African Dude]

John, PM me and I'll send you the information I have.

Cheers,
AD

[Bombs Away]

What if you had saved enough money to do it debt free and have enough for a type rating at the end, would you go for OAA or CTC then??

[UAV689]

neither - go modular, and use the change to put a deposit down on a house.

End of the day your getting the same product (Blue book) for a lot more money. whats the point - we are all going to be unemployed low time pilots! Save the dosh.

[student88]

Exactly right UAV, I'd also rather give the custom to a smaller flight school that needs the business.

[Mintflavour]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Like john been through the system.
Finished training early 2007
Got a placement 2008
Lost placement late 2008
Been in the holding pool ever since watching fresh cadets going under me to jump in the RHS for 6 months, and most joining me in the hold pool after that.
Some will get lucky but many won't at the moment.

Beware all of the cadets Ive spoken to had +100K loans by the time they finished before they had to pay for a TR.

Great training facility without a doubt, But look beyond the glossy cover before deciding.

Mint

[Rj111]

I bet you could get a nice second hand IFR equipped C182 for under 90k.

*salivates*

[antes56]

I really appreciate all the things you write down on ths thread about CTC or OAA,but I think are not only the things lele1704 would like to know.
From his post,he would know how are these 2 school, the pros and cons of its....and so do I, because I would like to start the integrated ATPL and I was thinking about these 2 (more the OAA...).

thanks to everyone who can help us to take a decision giving us his experience..:ok::ok: