Broon makes a boo boo

[taxydual]

The Glorious Leader has been telling porkies!

BBC News - Brown admits mistake on defence spending evidence (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8572372.stm)

[air pig]

Only just discovered that bit !

[cornish-stormrider]

So the oone eyed nostril miner says that the UOR's were always met.

The point that they should have been in the equipment prior to start seems to have slipped him by then.

muppet.

[glad rag]

Get him back in front of the chilcot inquiry and keel haul the lying ****!

[foldingwings]

Not surprised, I would not believe a word that came out of his lying mouth on any subject on any day! Son of the Manse! Maybe by birth but not by the way he conducts his life day to day!

[Not_a_boffin]

More to the point, while he wibbles about increases in cash terms, the actual question needs to be "was it enough to fight two wars, well above the force levels and durations in the planning assumptions, without starving all non-Herrick/Telic deployed forces and equipment programmes of funds and training"?

[grandfer]

They always say liars have to have good memories,the Broon one has obviously just remembered.What I can't think is why he's taken so long remembering seeing he's such a good liar ?
:mad::mad:

[vecvechookattack]

The point that they should have been in the equipment prior to start seems to have slipped him by then.

Whats the point in that? It wouldn't be a UOR then, would it?

[minigundiplomat]

Vec,

is that a waahh, or are you really a grade A monkey spanker?

[vecvechookattack]

How could it be a UOR if we already had it in service? Remember which budget UOR's come from and what purpose they provide.

[minigundiplomat]

I think the general thrust is that if we were properly equipped from the outset, we wouldnt need to go throwing in UOR's when its already too late.

Not sure a debate over the definition of UOR's was what Cornish was looking for. But hey, thanks anyway.

[vecvechookattack]

Totally understood but my point was that UOR's are good things. They don't come out of the MOD budget and they are a cheap and quick method of obtaining equipment that is needed in a particular theatre. We cannot afford to equip ourselves with all the kit we need for every theatre and every eventuality and so UOR's provide a very useful tool for getting us the right kit quickly.

[air pig]

Hey Vec

Unfortunately, the civil serpents in the Treasury want the money spent on UORs back, look on it as a bankers loan without interest, but still has to come out of the MoD budget. In other words a cut in defence spending or sell off the equipment purchased under UOR

[minigundiplomat]

UOR's are good things


Agree. But perhaps lessons regarding kit identified in Iraq circa 2003, shouldnt still be issues in Afg in 2010?

Take IEDs and other methods assymetric warfare. It was a no brainer that successful ef tactics from Iraq would eventually migrate to afg. Yet people were still dying in snatch landrovers in 2008/9. That should have been sorted straight away, and not just on a UOR. If it takes seven years, I would question the use of the term 'urgent'.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

"The urgent operational requirements that were asked for by our forces were always met."

My bold.

A classic case of being economical with the truth. He failed to mention the six month moratorium on submissions to the IAB. Don't ask, don't get.

[Low Flier]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01598/1803-MATT-web_1598922a.gif

[chippy63]

His comment is in any case disingenuous, if not downright deceitful.

He talked about defence spending being above inflation, but that is the general rate of inflation. It seems pretty clear that defence sector inflation was well above that. Thus, once cash for the shiny toys had been taken out of the equation, there was actually less to spend on other stuff.

Plus, he said that "in one or two years blah blah". The Beeb showed that 4 years had below inflation spending growth.

:ugh:

[teeteringhead]

Well if the Beeb - once referred to in 2002 as the Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation by a very senior officer - are attacking the Government over Defence then Broon must really be on the skids.....:ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

This is old news now but salient to the current “debate”; http://www.defencemanagement.com/feature_story.asp?id=11327 (http://www.defencemanagement.com/feature_story.asp?id=11327) It was already the case that stores/equipment introduced through UORs had to be supported in service from the core Budget. The consequences of that are particularly evident to the Navy.

I think Brown the Humourless had 2 choices; miraculously cure himself of selective amnesia or directly call Kevin Tebbit and ACM Stirrup liars.

[chippy63]

Teeteringhead:
Yes, maybe I should have said "Even the BBC...

[Grumpy106]

What I can't understand is why the Opposition parties haven't made more capital from this. Brown either lied to Chilcot (highly probable) or didn't know what the facts were (inexcusable for a PM). Either way he should have been hauled over the coals by Cameron, but all he got was 'that's the first time I've heard him retract or apologise' - he LIED for goodness sake, the :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Guzlin Adnams]

Apologise?
Take your pick, liar or incompetant......for my money he's both.
I don't understand why the other parties aren't slaughtering McCyclops. Of course it could be that they don't want to highlight the defence budget too much because they've got plans to plunder it also.
No official apology to the Chilcott enquiry though is beyond the pale. The man's not fit to govern.

[CrabInCab]

Apologies if posted before but for your collective amusement:

Linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMi776jah1w)

:}

[vecvechookattack]

It is very likely that the reluctance to attack the PM is due to the Conservative party plans to cut defence. George Osborne has been often quoted saying that the Typhoon / CVS and A400M projects will all be on the Tory hit list. The Tory party are not in a position to criticise the governments spending on defence.

However, GB should go back to the Chilcott enquiry and explain what happened and why he was "confused" with the figures.... If not for our sake but for the sake of those who didn't come home.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Completely agree with vecvechookattack.
Sadly this is not the first time Mr Brown has made a "boo boo", and it does beg the question as to who should govern next if defence spending alone is the criteria.
Personally I would have anyone in preference to the present bunch of muppets and would just hope that "they" would save a lot of money by withdrawing immediately from the stupidity that is Afghanistan. Even if they don't I believe life in UK would be better than that provided by the failed socialist dreamers of the labour party.
Meanwhile I'll go back to my fence to sit down.

[grandfer]

The trouble with most of our MPs at the moment is they talk so much BS, truth & lies all blend into one & I think most of the time they don't know the difference .

:mad::mad:

[robin]

..How do you know when a politician is lying?

Answer: his lips are moving :ok:

[Geehovah]

This may prove that the Party Line may be strong but the truth will always come out.

We all know that whilst UORs have been met the core programme is in shambles and has been for years. The key question is do we need an air superiority fighter, a carier battle group and land vehicles that can survive a conflict. Of course we do. Forget the inter service squabbles. We've been under funded during two concurrent crises.

[Geehovah]

Whats the point in that? It wouldn't be a UOR then, would it?

Who needs a flare dispenser?

[cornish-stormrider]

Thanks G, and others.

The point is we should have all this damn stuff anyway.

[grimfixer]

Totally understood but my point was that UOR's are good things. They don't come out of the MOD budget and they are a cheap and quick method of obtaining equipment that is needed in a particular theatre. We cannot afford to equip ourselves with all the kit we need for every theatre and every eventuality and so UOR's provide a very useful tool for getting us the right kit quickly.

VVHA, your point about the UOR process fails to recognise the underlying deficiencies in materiel and orbat whilst also missing the fact that a UOR does not provide for future support etc as it will not be part of the core. As MGD highlighted the "lessons learnt" from our earlier experiences obviously didn't apply to UOR's either.

Sadly MoD has had to use the UOR option just to try and get kit which would should have been normally procured but would not have been signed off.

[EODFelix]

Not forgetting that if the capability procerured via the UOR process was in the EP but not yet obtained the Treasury will argue that the UOR is simply a planned capability brought forward and therefore they will not fund it out of the CPF/Reserve

[Exnomad]

In far off days the standard used to be that "misleading parliament" was invariably a resigning matter . Not a word in the press or from Cameron on this.

[Compressorstall]

Doesn't the problem go deeper than this really? We have a leadership who has become used to not asking for anything that might harm the flagship programmes (which were mostly procured to fight big state-on-state wars) and then relying on the UOR process to get them out of the dwang. If you then mix in a Government that has been on the whole uninterested by the dedicated bunch they know as the Armed Forces who have had little voice until now. There have been some success stories in the procurement process, but these pages are full of stories of the turkeys. Our procurement process has never been that agile due to the perceived need to safeguard British Industry, often at the cost of capability. We have criticised our US bretheren, but, for instance, they have re-capitalised their helicopters (buying 500+ UH60Ms for the cost of our Wildcat programme) and rushed in lots of MRAPs whilst we were still driving round in LR Snatches and wondering why so many of our troops were being killed and injured. So the Government is guilty, but guilty of ignorance and niaivety whilst the military has been complacent and afraid to ask for fear of losing bigger programmes. We have some really great people (shown by the latest operational honours awards), but how well are we serving these men and women at all levels?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Deploying UH60Ms on the back of a DD/FF or in a war load LPH would certainly have entertainment value.

[sycamore]

Gordo has had enough, but before the election decides to do a morale boosting tour of Yorkshire,of all places,`Ee ,yup,lad t`PM`s cummin a see us`.
A suitably suited `Sir Humphrey` is sent North to York,to gee up the locals,and go to the NRM(National Rail Museum),to get some local down-to-earth help,visible encouragement to the local populus. To this end the Cabinet would like a `steam-engine` named after the `Glorious Leader` in honour of his multifarious accomplishments (tax,no defence money, giveaways to all the scumbags etc,etc).
The NRM Chief Engineer says,`Well,yes ,we can name an engine after the PM,but they are only freight /tank/shunters,not really apporopriate for a PM.`
` What about that big green one,number 4472,can we name it? ` says the Suit..
` Well, `says the chief of the NRM,it has been known that engines have been re-named after famous Chief Engineers/,Company Directors,and even Dwight D Eisenhower,so I think we can possibly accede to your request`.
` I hope it will not cost a lot,as this will be tax-payer funded,out of the Public Purse,and ,as you know,Labour spends wisely`,says The Suit..
`In that case ` says the boss of NRM,we will be as `cheap as chips` as t`saying goes in t` es parts, we`ll just paint out `t`F`, and job`s done,Lad``..

For those who don`t geddit .4472 `Flying Scotsman` LNER..

[Tallsar]

How could you even joke about the possibility of renaming one of the most glorious (and honest!) of Gresley's (and the nation's) engineering achievements.... our present prime minister isn't fit to walk in such men's shadows never mind understand the rationale that created them, or help graffiti their masterpieces....on second thoughts if it would encourage him to hurtle back to Edinburgh at over 100mph forever and leave a vacancy tomorrow I could cope with it for a few days s'pose! Problem is the vacancy ain't gonna be filled by anyone better as far as I can see.....:ugh::{

[November4]

As Chippy63 said


Plus, he said that "in one or two years blah blah". The Beeb showed that 4 years had below inflation spending growth.

So he couldn't even be straight in his appology...that's twice he has "misled" over the same item

[racedo]

Wot another one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!