search and rescue at sea..

[tempesta]

anyone with the proper technique to launch rafts ?

[Double Zero]

I may be qualified for this one, being used to aircraft ( light a/c to fast jets ) and a yachtie, but the phrase ' launch rafts ' worries me a bit as fast jets tend to do it for you, other aircraft apart from light stuff will have someone ( hopefully still conscious if you've ditched, but with a/c of any size it's pot luck ) to sort it out.

If launching a raft from a boat, the absolutely golden rule is ' never get into a raft until you have to step up into it '. This is a slightly exagerated saying, as if at all possible you want to be SURE whatever you're boarding the raft from is really sinking - but if you do go into the raft, it's best to be as dry as possible.

This ' only if you step-up into it ' idea is extremely valid for boats, and became especially drummed into yachties after the 1979 Fastnet Disaster, when people very understandably terrified & exhausted took to liferafts which were then torn apart, while some of the abandoned yachts were recovered intact later.

With an aircraft ditching, it is of course usually a very different story.

To ' launch ' a liferaft, it will be in a hard fibreglass cannister, or a soft nylon valise.

Either way the idea is, it's on a line one must keep hold of ( join hands with someone else, DON'T secure it to the sinking aircraft whatever ) a sharp tug on this ' painter ' line should cause the thing to inflate.

Pull it as close as you can, without endangering it being snagged on submerging surfaces, and if at all possible get into it dry.

Things to take with you if you can are torches, hand-held radio's, mirrors for signalling, canned fruit, sleeping bags / blankets or any warm clothes, first aid kits, buckets and above all else FRESH WATER.

Be careful of flares, A, don't burn yourself so aim downwind at 45 degrees, B don't shoot down a SAR helo !

Apart from radio's, all the above should be in small amounts in the raft's own supplies, and unless in a remote area help will already be on the way.

Make very sure the raft is inflated OUTSIDE the aircraft, same goes for lifejackets, which may have a manual toggle to pull at the lower right side ( usually ) or oral tube to blow into at the upper left - if one needs to deflate a lifejacket, take the secured cap from the oral tube and you'll see there's an extension moulded in opposite the strap; insert that into the tube to open the pressure valve.

Liferaft survival training, if not available through military channels, is available on day courses in swimming pools all around the UK, held by the Royal Yachting Association ( R.Y.A. ).

Good idea to do the training, quite fun too, hope you never need it for real !

DZ

[Capt Pit Bull]

I sense much rage within this one.

[Rossian]

.....KF. Take a look at where tempesta is from. Is he likely to have the "immersion suit which the RAF has given you"??

The guy asked a question. Double zero tried to answer it from past experience to the best of his ability. Don't get too clench-jawed about it, implying that you know so much better.

What is YOUR answer to the OP's question?

The Ancient Mariner

[Airborne Aircrew]

Either way the idea is, it's on a line one must keep hold of ( join hands with someone else, DON'T secure it to the sinking aircraft whatever ) a sharp tug on this ' painter ' line should cause the thing to inflate.

IIRC, the painter on multi-person life rafts used on helicopters and transport fixed wing breaks away from the life raft before the raft is dragged under water if it is tied off to the distressed "vehicle".

Disclaimer: While I can't think why they would change it - that information is 20 years old.

[anotherthing]

A_A your info is still correct - the painter line has to be self severing under a certain amount of load.

However, Maybe D-Z was talking about hand launched life rafts on yachts etc that are stowed away during normal operations and deployed manually, instead of deck stored/mounted life rafts that have hydrostatic releases etc?

In which case it would be a folly to attach the hand deployed raft to the vessel - the line used may not be suitable. Holding onto it to maintain contact would, in this instance, be sensible

[Double Zero]

Well, KF and others in the DZ fan club...

Thanks to those who understood what I was trying to say.

Was quite used to the contents & operation of Martin Baker kit, partly through photographing all the bits & pieces in great detail including the BOI for Taylor Scott's GR5 accident & general info' for designers, Test Pilots etc, partly from flying ( G-Hawk ) and I am happy to say never put it to the test.

I wouldn't expect to find tinned peaches ( I was suggesting one grabs such things if available ) - not in a fast jet usually.

At Dunsfold Pilot's Clothing / Safety Equipment bay, the rather experienced chap who ran it, Harry Flood, had made a wall display of all the contents of the PSP, partly for interest to the many visitors, partly to remind the pilots.

Obviously this included water pouches, edible candles ( interesting question as to what to do with it ), etc & 2 small yellow discs; almost every time visitors saw these, they took them to be ' suicide pills '... in fact they were of course ear defenders, so if wishing to end it all may have had limited effect !

As to tying the raft painter onto the aircraft / boat, yes they are supposed to sever under load but there have been reported nasty incidents of them going straight down with the sinking thing, so current thinking is to hand-hold the line, while letting it go prematurely would be a Bad Thing.

Hydrostatic releases are an expensive option on private boats, but mandatory on passenger carrying vessels; unless carried in wing bays like some WWII aircraft ( Hellcat, some bombers etc ) I can't see how such a release could be fitted on an internally carried raft.

I knew a research HS125 - test-bed for Blue Vixen - which carried a heavy W.C, in open view of everyone and useless weight, just by the main crew door.

An avionics chap had just been on the sea survival course, and in my and others' view quite rightly refused to fly in it until the loo was replaced by a liferaft.

However, possibly he did not state his cause in the right way, he could come over as stroppy, while a quiet word with the right pilot may have worked wonders...the aircraft stayed as it was & he left for greener pastures, but I always thought he had a good point, and even if I was in that aircraft, ditched, and the loo somehow floated, I wouldn't want to be the no.1 SAR pinup pic' for decades, hanging onto the loo in mid Lyme Bay !

As for sleeping bags, yes they do get soggy but are better than nothing; space blankets are easily available & cheap, but I know of no ( now light ) aircraft which carry them, and as far as I can tell mine is the only boat in our club to have them - K.F, I presume you have one or two stowed ?

[Phalconphixer]

...and be prepared for the Guard police to scream "You're on Guard" when you try to raise attention via your SARBE beacon or other emergency radio...

[Pontius Navigator]

At Dunsfold Pilot's Clothing / Safety Equipment bay, the rather experienced chap who ran it, Harry Flood, had made a wall display of all the contents of the PSP, partly for interest to the many visitors, partly to remind the pilots.

This was pretty standard in an SE Section as aircrew rarely saw the contents of the pack unless they went ot the bay.

edible candles ( interesting question as to what to do with it ),

In the absence of matches and anything else for pyromanics you could eat them. With a candle and ignition, cut into sections, you could heat a small amount of water or start a fire.

As to tying the raft painter onto the aircraft / boat, yes they are supposed to sever under load but there have been reported nasty incidentsof them going straight down with the sinking thing,

Been there done that. Double ring life raft lost one chamber. Makes for a real sloppy ride.

I knew a research HS125 - test-bed for Blue Vixen - which carried a heavy W.C, in open view of everyone and useless weight, just by the main crew door.

Standard fit for all DH125-100 ie the Dominie. Liferaft was stowed aft of the stbd overwing exit.

space blankets are easily available & cheap, but I know of no ( now light ) aircraft which carry them,

Carried one in my flying suit pocket, practically no space at all and for 50p! Miss PN was on exercise with it, guy got wet and into shock in the Brecons. Lots of faffing around then she pulls blanket out of pocket like genie out of bottle :)

[Double Zero]

Pontious,

I agree with all you're saying, except that particular 125 ( don't know which model, but early; the instrument panel was rather sadly on E-Bay recently ) !

So either the chap was ill-informed, I'd have thought a short reply could sort that, or more likely the aircraft carrying the kit was heavy & draggy - along with all the internal test kit for the Blue Vixen, radar, radome & simulated FRS2 ( as then ) controls in the right hand seat, it was the only 125 I knew of to carry an aquisition AIM9-L - though not AMRAAM...

[RumPunch]

.............and of course the Nimrod MR2/R1. Does anyone know if the MRA4 has a liferaft in the wing root too ?

BGG

100% deffo No :)

Riggers all over have a huge sigh of relief

[Double Zero]

We can all think of an R1 happening when rafts were very welcome !

Are the planners now going with the ' odds are against it ' theory - despite it being proven possible - to save a tiny bit of hassle & money, and rather like ejection seat manufacturers, can reply with " we've never had any complaints " ?!

[Pontius Navigator]

Certain thread drift here but:

After prolonged exposure in open dinghies and slow resuce times the RAF introduced covered dinghies and then the 'massive' MS26 with auto inflating covers doors etc.

Merchant vesels also have these 'proper' covered dinghies that will protect from the elements and I guess contain a sufficiency of supplies.

Going in the other direction civil aviation now uses the inflated escape chutes with no cover, no real shape, and no equipment, as dinghies. For those unlucky enough to find a place on an escape chute the diagram shows a circle of people holding hands.

Now is this a tacit acknowledgement that the risk of ditching is low, and the possibility of survival even lower, so only a sop need be provided to give the uninformed a comfort blanket?

[Mmmmnice]

I seem to recall the SCSR way of doing it from some sort of launch doing max chat, was too heave it over the back end, followed by the intended occupants who would warm up nicely spending the rest of the morning trying to get into the thing! I do remember having my arm almost pulled off when they conned me into going off the boat whilst holding onto the MS10!

[Double Zero]

I might be a tad upset if I survived a ditching in an airliner then had to tread water with a ' Catch 22 ' style voucher for a free next flight !

To be honest I didn't know airliners do use the escape slides, but it had occured to me; after all if such an aircraft goes down, help should be on the way pretty sharply.

I might feel differently if I was actually doing it, in a cold / rough sea...There would undoubtedly be people killed who'd survived the original event.

Space blankets would make a lot of difference.

Fast jet 1 man dinghys have a canopy of course, but the last time I saw ( 1993 ) it had to be manually erected, which always struck me as a bit penny-pinching considering the surrounding kit, God knows what the MOD paid for the rafts anyway, and the likelyhood of injury of one degree or another on ejection.

Yachtie rafts, which I understand from another thread are carried by light aircraft cross-channel, have auto - erecting canopies, the good ones - double the £500 price of the simplest - have a rainwater catching device & thermally insulated double floor, near essential for long times adrift, but I would think not for an aircraft ditching / ejection.

Commercial rafts are a minimum capacity of 4-persons, ( there's a market waiting for a 2-person raft ); a snag if less than 4 occupants, as the weight is required to prevent the thing flipping in high wind & waves.

The aforementioned RYA courses include capsize righting practice, and modern rafts have handles to help with this, but I as an experienced dinghy racing sailor, used to being caught under sails underwater and righting boats, would still find it a challenge.

Take your average airline / probably ill trained transport passenger and try righting a raft at night in rough seas, good luck !

Note the precautions oil rig workers take; lots of training & immersion suits.

The best tip I picked up was, if going down ( not that, aircraft, though thinking about it - may apply universally ! ) - put a hand out towards the escape hatch, as if spinning in then underwater in the dark etc it can be very disorientating.