Airspace Restrictions Presidential Visit

[criticalmass]

With a possible visit in late March of POTUS, does anyone have any rumours about airspace restrictions around Sydney and Canberra?

Apparently an email (using a Police letterhead) has been circulating to the effect there will be changes to the airspace in a 100 nm radius of Sydney and Canberra, but no other details. Email also gives dates for briefings for pilots, but the whole thing is very sketchy on detail (perhaps wise) and to my jaundiced eyes the email looked almost like a scam. Assuming the POTUS visit goes ahead, are we in for another APEC fiasco?

Anyone heard anything more concrete?

[Dog One]

All airspace will be classified E outside of radar coverage, because thats the American way!!!!!

[PA39]

:\ Ask The Chasers For A Special Clearance !!

[Peter Fanelli]

I believe he might be canceling his trip and will instead send the TOTUS (teleprompter of the united states) so that a local stand in can still deliver his drivel.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

I got my copy of that email at about 7:30pm Friday night.
It says there is to be a briefing in Canberra at 5:30pm Monday and one in Bankstown at 6:30pm Tuesday.

I liked the bit about ATCOs in the exhortation PILOTS, AIRSPACE USERS AND AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ATTEND

The quoted link http://www.defence.gov.au/POTUS didn't work for me on monday morning.

[criticalmass]

The link didn't work for me either. I smell something fishy about this. What scam can someone pull by gathering a bunch of pilots into one place with little noticer and less detail?

If, on the other hand, the Canberra briefing happens, and some Ppruners attend it, would they oblige by posting on this thread a precis of what is planned?

Actually, I am hoping for a cancellation of this. Hopefully, POTUS will somewhat preoccupied with events in CONUS.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Criticalmass - POTUS? CONUS? you read too many Tom Clancy novels :ok:










...come to think of it, maybe I do too :ooh:

[aussie027]

In the US a visit by POTUS would see a restricted area of 30nm radius around whatever airport Airforce 1 was parked at.

Access was severely restricted with, (from my fading memory), IFR RPT and maybe Charter traffic being allowed into surrounding airports within the zone all other traffic being excluded.

In an area like the LA or San Francisco Basin this would affect usually a dozen airports with usually 3 being major airline hub airports.
Very inconvenient and costly for many ,many, people.:ugh::mad:

[Tinstaafl]

Got that right. I'm based in Florida and everytime the bigwig pops in anywhere it causes nothing but mayhem & irritation while he's in the region. The cost must be huge in crapped-on-from-a-great-height interruption. The no-fly ring isn't just around where US-One is parked - it follows el presidente everywhere he goes.

[Peter Fanelli]

In the US a visit by POTUS would see a restricted area of 30nm radius around whatever airport Airforce 1 was parked at.


The restriction is centered on the president, not the aircraft. It follows him even if he travels by road.
Right royal pain in the arse it is.

[tail wheel]

ABC News is reporting that President Obama has cancelled his visit to Australia.

[Jabawocky]

Best post you have made so far Tail Wheel :ok:

Jaba.....(the ex-ppruner) :sad:

[tail wheel]

That is odd! :confused:

ABC radio news around mid day yesterday announced Obama had cancelled his visit due to committments in the USA.

Sky News this morning is still talking of his coming visit?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Sydney Morning Herald also referring to his visit as "upcoming" or "imminent", although I too heard on the ABC that it was postponed :confused:

[tail wheel]

Sky News clarified this morning. Obama will arrive Thursday next week (March 25) - a delay of two days.

All Federal politicians will be recalled on Friday (March 26) so Obama can address the Parliament in Canberra.

[Jabawocky]

Bugger!!!

And here I was thinking you were the bearer of great news TW.

I feel for those who are in his trevl path......

[tail wheel]

I feel for the Aussie tax payers who are funding what must be the most expensive speech in Australia's history. I wonder what astounding gems of advice we will receive from a President with one of the lowest personal approval ratings in US history? I don't think the Australian Prime Minister needs any advice on running down our economy; he's doing very well on his own.

[Jabawocky]

Seems Mr KRudd has a similar downward trend in approval as well......:ok:

Birds of a feather............

[Lodown]

Supposedly Obama is delaying his trip in order to get a national healthcare system approved in the USA. He's still a few votes short at this time and has been working on it since coming to office. Busting a gut trying to get it passed.

Procedures may have changed in recent years, but there used to be a 2.5 mile radius prohibited area centred on the president. If AF1 was parked and the president was somewhere else, then the prohibited area was with the president. The motorcade travels on a freeway and all on ramps and off ramps are closed ahead of the motorcade and opened up again when the motorcade is clear. There were four (?) presidents who didn't make it to the end of their terms because of outside interference, and several attempts on others in between. Understandably, the Secret Service is a little edgy.

Yeah! 1000!

[Brian Abraham]

I wonder what astounding gems of advice we will receive from a President
With all due respect TW, he may be out here to get advice on how to run an economy. In debt to the tune of $12.5 trillion, and then there's the Wall St socialist crowd with hands out and looking for support. Actually expect to see him busking on darling Harbour, or up Kings Cross with the hat out. ;)

[tail wheel]

With all due respect TW, he may be out here to get advice on how to run an economy.

Then all I can say is "God help America!"

:} :}

Recent history confirms there is a certain inevitability about the future of any country or state administration which practices debt financing.

HERE (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) is a very interesting - and eye opening - web site.

But I digress. I'll go and thread ban myself for thread drift! :p

[criticalmass]

OK, so it looks like he is coming on March 25th after all. Now, do we have anything known about airspace restrictions within, say, 100nm of Sydney and Canberra during the visit? Are we going to have a repeat of the APEC shutdown, or is it conceivably even worse than APEC's restrictions?

Any reliable information would be appreciated because like many others I will not be able to get to the Bankstown briefing Tuesday 16th March, and as yet I have seen nothing from AirServices or CASA. ARN-holders ought to be getting something and soon, I would think.

If there are going to be airspace shutdowns or restrictions then those organisations better get it all in one sock and start telling pilots what the h*ll is going on.

[CaptainMidnight]

The airspace regulator is CASA's Office of Airspace Regulation ....... ask them what is going on.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Contact the Office of Airspace Regulation (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90472)

[CaptainMidnight]

Further:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/sup/s10-h15.pdf

[boofhead]

The Pres carries an area of 2832 sq miles around with him that is unavailable to GA airplanes without a flight plan and clearance. He regularly shuts down aviation whenever he travels, and costs many operators a lot of money. For example he shut down the entire island during his last holiday at Martha's Vineyard so far as the local operators were concerned, causing them to lose their entire annual income (they work mostly in the tourist season, which is when they were shut down).
What does it say about his courage (or lack of same) if he feels safe only if he has such a massive bubble of airspace around him? How paranoid must he be if he can imagine a Cessna 150 could ever be a threat?
What is wrong with us that we let him get away with this abbrogation of our rights? Where is our courage to tell the authorities, US or Aus, to cut this crap out?
And do you really think that the RAAF will shoot down Uncle Fred and Wilma when they inadvertently fly their Piper Tripacer into the prohibited airspace?
It all costs us, in freedoms and in money. Never mind, so long as it does not affect me directly, right? Give it up a little at a time and then find out, too late, that we have lost it all.

[criticalmass]

At last!
Two temporary restricted areas, centred on the Canberra DME, one of 11nm radius (R903) and one of 45nm radius (R904). For the flying I will be doing during the visit, that's all I need to know. Basically, just stay 46nm or more away from Canberra.

[tail wheel]

Obama's Australian trip is now postponed until at least June.

[Peter Fanelli]

How much money do you suppose was spent by the OZ taxpayer preparing for this.
Next time he calls wanting to visit you should tell him you won't be home that day.

[Bunyan Wingnut]

Ok, the visit is postponed, but we can expect a visit later in the year and more airspace restrictions.

I can understand the need for Presidential security, but I am puzzled by RAAF promulgating such a large 45nm radius restricted area, well beyond the CTA boundaries, from 0-FL280, excluding not just Canberra but also Goulburn, and so close to Cooma, Moruya and Tumut. Given the relative velocities of the FA-18 fighters that were flying yesterday over Canberra, compared to balloons, gliders and GA craft in or around the zone... What risk management logic led to 45nm, vice 42 (the ultimate answer to the ultimate question), or 40, 33, whatever? What flight paths and risk scenarios? I know, security precludes disclosure...

Today's Canberra Times published substantial pushback from the Balloons Aloft operator in the Canberra Times about "unfair" restrictions - front page, under a graphic of a balloon with SKY BAN, NO HOT AIR BALLOONS, NO PLANES (including models), NO PARACHUTES, NO GLIDERS, NO ULTRALIGHTS on the side, story titled Anger on Obama's no-fly zone.

[boofhead]

Foot in the door. When the pollies see how much fun it is to bring aviation to a grinding halt they will want to do it too. The VP gets half the area the Pres gets, and some of the other US congressmen get similar "protection" as a result of whining for it. What will you do when the GG and the PM, and State Premiers want the same ability to show their importance? If you don't stop it now you will be in the same position as in the US where pilots who simply wander into a TFR by mistake or who are not aware it even exists (some are promulgated with a couple of hour's notice) face being forced to land, imprisonment, loss of licence, loss of employment etc.
And for what? Safety for the person "protected"? Imagine the danger from a light airplane to a person on the ground. Almost nil. There is no threat, it is all about abuse of power, nothing more or less. These are people who we put into power to serve our interests, not their own. It is our airspace, not theirs.
There is obviously a need to segregate various airplane operations, hence Class A, B, C etc. But a restricted area denies access and flying in it without permission is a serious offence. There should be good reasons for mandating a restricted area and the visit of a politician should not be one of those.
The Queen has purple airways, but that is only for the time she is in her airplane. Once she is on the ground she is treated the same as all of us, but watch the crap fly when the US Pres visits. Not only the TFR, which will exist all the time he is on the ground, but police cavalcades, snipers and all sorts of restrictions on our freedoms. The US population might have turned into a bunch of terrified wimps but I am ashamed to see that Australians are going the same way.
Let them get away with this and I promise you it will never stop growing.

[ftrplt]

I can understand the need for Presidential security, but I am puzzled by RAAF promulgating such a large 45nm radius restricted area,

what makes you think RAAF had any say in what form the restrictions would take?

[YPJT]

What an absolute crock. Everytime we get some US leader visiting Australia the rest us suffer.

Osama and his mates must be sitting in their cave somewhere in the Hindu Kush laughing their beards off at us and saying we don't even have to do anything anymore to put the infidels into a panic.

Oh and Kev 07 - don't forget to salute :ugh: