Modular Path - Advice

[Kaedyn]

Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum, so just wanted to say HELLO. I've been reading thread after thread here and its been extreamly helpful.

The reason I'm here is basically because I have decided to pack up my boring banking job to do something I should have done a long time ago. You have probably heard all that 'I've wanted to become a pilot since I was two' stuff before so I'll spare you that.

I have decided to go the modular route to get my ATPL (that the final goal), the reason behind this route instead on the integrated is that im 27 and I cant ask my parent for the cash because I just find it wrong at my age and I want them to retire also getting a loan and being in debt £70k ummmm no thank you. The other reason is I want to take in steps to see that I can actually do it, if I can't I know I tried and also I have not thrown money away.

Anyway my question, its basic and probably asked a few times (but i can't find it in the search function), to become an Airline Pilot what are the actual modules one needs to do. So far I have:

PPL
Flight Experience course (extra hours)
ATPL Theoritical
Multi Engine
Instrument reading
CPL
MMCAnything i'm missing out?

Also would be useful where you guys did each of your modules. Basically to see the type of experience people gained eg: all in the UK or some in UK and some in the US. What where you thoughts on this method cost wise and experience wise.

Thanks guys

[AlphaMale]

PPL
Flight Experience / Hour Building to 100hrs PIC/150hrs TT
ATPL GS
Multi Engine Piston (MEP)
Multi Engine Instrument Rating (ME-IR)
Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL)
Multi Crew Co-operation (MCC)You can do it that way (as above), you can do your ATPL GS before or after your hour building, or at the same time. But you'll need the 100hrs PIC and 150hrs TT before starting your CPL.

You can also do your CPL before your ME-IR. I think it's safe to say that most people do the CPL before the ME-IR.

There is the advantage of doing your ME-IR before your CPL in that you can do a 55hr ME-IR course followed by a 15hr CPL course (70hrs total) or you can do a 25hr CPL course followed by a 50hr ME-IR course (75hrs total).

Good luck

[Kaedyn]

Thanks mate. I'm glad I got the courses right, did not wnat to seem a f**l on the forum.

Where did you do your trining if you don't mind me asking.

[XX621]

I'm halfway down the route you are about to embark upon, although I have kept my "boring banking job" in order to finance it. Actually, its not that boring...but it's ultimately on the ground and not in the air ;-)

Good on you for doing your homework. Do as much as you can. The journey is not for the unprepared!

There are lot's of different ways to get from one point to the next within the licensing framework, and it is there where this forum is a goldmine.

PM if I can be of any help at all.

[AlphaMale]

Swansea (Top instructors, good location and never had a problem with the aircraft going tech).

Didn't have much choice where I am. 3 schools within 50 miles of where I live (Cambrian / Aeros / B-F-C). Cardiff closed a while back :rolleyes:

You have more choice, so do some research and get the PPL done this summer. Just don't leave your exams till last minute ... start revising air law now!

[XX621]

There is the advantage of doing your ME-IR before your CPL in that you can do a 55hr ME-IR course followed by a 15hr CPL course (70hrs total) or you can do a 25hr CPL course followed by a 50hr ME-IR course (75hrs total).

Good luck

So many different ways to cut it...for example, I have been advised by many to do the CPL on SEP (single engine piston), then do the ME/IR much later when the industry "picks up". Just one example of the zillion different aspects of this journey which requires careful thought and, homework.

As I'm sure you've read already, having a CPL/IR with 200hrs right now is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.:( In addition, you'll have to continue to spend serious money to keep it all current).

On the other hand, if you're not qualified you definately won't get a job flying anything anywhere...:ok:

[AlphaMale]

I second the above. There is SE-CPL or ME-CPL, There is SE-IR or ME-IR (You'll need this for the airlines).

It might be worth reading http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/335548-growing-evidence-upturn-upon-us.html before you spend too much or give up your day job.

Also the sticky's at the top of this area. Some people become flying instructors after the CPL but before the ME-IR, or after the ME-IR in order to get a 'flying job' but there are no jobs out there for instructors, airline, bizjets, freight, bush pilot etc :(

[Kaedyn]

Alphamale:

I had a good read of that thread. Quite disturbing but not all bad news. I used to work in the equity/market research at Barclays Capital and in my last two months I basically research the airline industry non stop (not much was going on at work) I even made graphs, lol.

If I had completed everything now then I would worry, but I dont see myself completing till late 2011 to be honest, will get a part time job to help cover the costs but nothing to serious as im basically got my savings (the one good thing about banking)

Again thanks for all the info.

XX621 - where have you done most of your modules?

[Kaedyn]

Yes it would, but the life is awful! Working 12-15 hour days usually 6 times a week, in a room with no windows and surrounded by back stabber and liars, it was just too much to handle. I would never have any time to do anything. My daily routine for 5 years was: wake up a 5:30am get to the office for 7am, work till 8pm or later, go home sleep and do it all over again!!! Money is not everything, and to be honest being mentally drained doing something you just dont like anymore so early in your career is a bad sign.

This is the main reason why I want to take the modular steps. If it fall apart and I realise that I'm chasing a dream which in unrealistic I can always go back into banking. The one good thing about it was the money, so financing is not really an issue, the partime suggextion was just something to keep me active while do the ATPL course.

[MrBrightside]

PPL
Flight Experience / Hour Building to 100hrs PIC/150hrs TT
ATPL GS
Multi Engine Piston (MEP)
Multi Engine Instrument Rating (ME-IR)
Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL)
Multi Crew Co-operation (MCC)Don't forget the night rating.

MB

[CraigyD]

Modular is certainly the way to go. I went to the states and got an FAA PPL last year in 4 weeks (stayed another 4 as my company went into administration when I was away :rolleyes:) at the cost of £8k which included all training and solo flight for the licence (44hrs) and about 20 or so hours P1 after, flights to LA and back, accomodation, food, pocket money and a long weekend trip to San Francisco. Had a great time and made some great friends.

Working as cabin crew now saving as I study for ATPLs, hope to finish these next April. Im flying as and when I can at the moment, funds and weather permitted. Then heading back to the USA to have an adventure and finish hour building, maybe flying around the whole of the States. This will be about £4-5k or so. Im interested in having a good time, which of course, you should as after all thats why we all fly.....

I'll then hit the CPL part time in the summer and use the remainder of holiday to get it done (hopes :}). The following year or year after, the ME-IR (hoping EASA will be kind to us in 2012 and give credit for the JAA licenses (sure they will, won't they?!)). Once done, I'll head to the African bush for some real flying.

Im saving £1k a month. Ok, I live at home, pay little rent and have no major outgoings which helps but using the situation to my advantage. If I need to save for longer, I will. Im in no rush. I do not want any debt and I believe it can be done.

Do take your time, enjoy yourself. Flying is not all about having epaulets on your shoulders (Having seen a recent advert from an FTO boiled my blood. Only thing in the shot was a shoulder with three bar epaulets. No planes, not even a wispy cloud.)

Happy flying and good luck

Craigyd

[The Old Fat One]

Yes it would, but the life is awful! Working 12-15 hour days usually 6 times a week, in a room with no windows and surrounded by back stabber and liars, it was just too much to handle. I would never have any time to do anything. My daily routine for 5 years was: wake up a 5:30am get to the office for 7am, work till 8pm or later, go home sleep and do it all over again!!! Money is not everything, and to be honest being mentally drained doing something you just dont like anymore so early in your career is a bad sign.

Ah ha.....

The innocence of youth. What you describe is not a problem with the banking industry; it's a problem of modern life and how you translate/prioritise it. I can assure you there plenty of back stabbers and liars in all industries, including avaition. I suspect that both banking and avaition suffer from an abundance of over-inflated egos as well. As for terms and conditions - well read on my friend there is no shortage of information all over this web site on what is happening to terms and conditions throughout commercail avaition.

Just a suggestion (it's your life)...

Use your growing experience to carve yourself a more comfortable niche in your current industry. Dial down any expectation of the luxury yacht and four porsches in the garage and instead invest in quality of life - health, relaxation. In other words, dial down the pressure cooker. Make flying your hobby and escape (but approach it professionally). In due course, invest in an owner's syndicate and fly when you want.

In other word's, before you jump out the frying pan, make sure you can clear the fire.

[ba038]

Just curious where did you do your degree and in what subject?....seemingly that i have a plan just like you.Im wanting to get into IB,work like crazy and save up for my beloved dream. Currently doing investment and financial risk management at CASS business school.



I would of PM you but didn’t allow me.

[Permafrost_ATPL]

You sure you don't want to consider integrated? Don't get me wrong, Modular is a great way to do it especially if you want to train as you work. But if money is not a problem, integrated will be quicker. I quit my boring job 5 years ago (at 34) and did Modular, but then I already had SEP PPL and IR. Was lucky to finish my MCC at the peak of hiring! If you want my advice, stay in the city for one more year, do some SEP flying for fun to see if you really like it, then quit and do Integrated. Graduate in 2013 and in there should be jobs out there...

P

[Permafrost_ATPL]

I forgot one thing: where's my money you bastard?
;)

Good luck

[zlocko2002]

if you want to keep cost down I suggest to take single engine IR (35h FNPT II and 15h SEP), after that MEP(6h), ten ME IR (3h FNPT II, 2h MEP), you will have much less ME hours which are expensive.
All of my friends did that...

[Kaedyn]

The Old Fat One: I think you have it all wrong. It has nothing to do with my age and what I expect from it. I've been working there for 5 years, I'm not in a graduate position or a junior analyst, I'm a senior associate therefore I know how it works. I could see where my life was going and it was being dictated 100% by my career, I could almost predict what happened next in my life by looking at my bosses. I'm was on a fast track route, to be honest i am unbelievably good at what I do, however to be in my position you sacrifice a hell of a lot and its just going to get worse. In other words I know what I'm doing and your little speech is great advice for a graduate but not for someone in my position.

Maybe I'm having a quarter life crisis and need a break from work, I have no doubt that after a few months of soul searching, getting into the banking industry for me will be easy, but is it something I want to get into.

BA038: I graduated from Imperial in 2003 and got straight into Barclays through their graduate scheme. Thees schemes are great for development with in the firm, if you prove yourself, ie: work your butt off, take no holidays, and get involved in at least 3 projects at a go. You will be selected for a fast track route, which will basically give you a better choice on your career path. If you want to get rich quick any position in the sell side or front office will do, but its extremely risky as in job security.

Permafrost: The reason I have not taken the integrated route is basically taking things step by step is more appealing to me.

Thanks guys for all your help and advice.

[Chief Brody]

Am a big advocate of the moddie route - did it that way myself.

However, appreciate that a number of carriers like the neatness of the intergrated route - i.e. your whole training history on a single sheet of paper and the ability to pick up the phone call the head of training and find out what you were like from day one and how you progressed.

If you go down the mod route, when you pick your flight school for the CPL, IR etc ensure that they give recommendations to modulites - some don't. A good way to find this out is to attend a flight training provider convention - usually held at one of the big hotels near Heathrow from time to time.

I started my PPL (Biggin Hill - Civilair - now bankrupt) in winter 2002 whilst at uni, night rating with Cabair, did the ATPL exams via a distance learning course with Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry, did the CPL, IR, MCC in Jerez. Flew as a safety pilot for about 6 months in the midlands before joining flybe where I stayed for about 2 years (lots of fun, good company), am now with BA on the bus.

PM if needed.

All the best, keep blue side up and good luck to all.

Brody.

[The Old Fat One]

Kaedyn,

Whatever your age and whatever your career profile thus far, in aviation terms you're a novice (wanabee is the preferred term on this forum, but I don't like it so I don't use it). I've been in aviation 33 years (6 more than you've been alive) and I've also suceeded in IT and I am currently associated with a retail company. I have heard all these industries slagged off many hundreds of times and for the same reasons. My only advice to you is not expect a better quality of working life in aviation that you have now, because you may well be in for shock.

On a more practical note (and you may have done this already so I apologise if I am telling you to suck eggs) don't make any career decisions until you have completed at least 2-3 hours of trial flying (preferably 5 hours) and checked that you are medically fit for aviation.

[dawsonj1]

Can anybody tell me if it is neccesary to still log cross country time after CPL licence has been issued? If so, for what requirement?

Cheers, James.

[ricky81 sti]

KAEDYN

I'm doing the exact same thing as you're planning to do only i'm continuing to work (self employed so i can get away a bit). I had always planned to go integrated but with the down turn in the past few years i thought being ATPL'd up 2011/2012 and no debt would be the smarter move. I have almost my PPL finished and from there plan to do my night and IMC. I'll then head to the states for a couple of weeks and see about some hour building.

Before i even took my first lesson tho i went to gatwick to get my class 1 medical, i was sure i was going to pass it but no point spending thousands before you're told you've passed!!

[ba038]

Kaedyn,

I would like pm you something could you please enable it.

[Kaedyn]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Looks like the general consensus on this forum (this thread and others) is that becoming a pilot is really not a great idea. Especially if you have skills that your already good at, one might aswel improve those and keep the flying as a hobby.

To be honest hearing it from some professionals is very useful. Maybe going back into finance isnt that bad of an idea after having a break from it all.

Thanks again.

[AlphaMale]

Kaedyn, it seems you've been told the same as me.

From speaking to ex-airline (and current) pilots at various airfields there are ex-pilots saying "It's not what is was" and experienced current pilots can't wait to retire and can't see why anybody would blow £100k or more to join the queue to 'possibly' get a job (there is no guarantee).

At least half of the pilots I have spoken to have said concentrate on my IT and excel in it. Earn good money (enough to buy a share in a plane or a small permit aircraft) and fly it when I want and where I want. 9-5 means I'll see my kids grow up and spend my weekends with friends and family.

I must say, with so many pilots giving me this advice would I be ignorant to ignore it?

A senior java / C++ / C# / .Net / developer can earn £50k pa which isn't half of what a Captain can earn LH with a flag carrier airline but the risks are much less. Consider spending £50k on modular training to fATPL, £25k on a Type Rating and then an additional amount on line training only to start on a wage of £22k pa.

At 35 I'll like to have 2 kids (I know the other half does), be married and settled with a good quality of life. With the industry the way it is at the moment I really can't see the light at the end of the tunnel :(