Emirates 380 landing from tail camera [Archive]

Flight Detent

10th Mar 2010, 01:58

Nowhere near as good as "The belly of the beast" on youtube.

Not only was it not an A380 as titled in the video, but it was a B747, and a -200 at that, what a great video.

It's a daytime video, taken from the NLG looking aft. Starts at pushback, right up to gear retraction, then restarts at gear extension.
They were smart enough during the approach to lower the nose gear with the alternate system first, and then with the video running, to lower the main gear, looks great!

Take a look, it's really interesting.

Cheers...FD...:ok:

18-Wheeler

10th Mar 2010, 02:08

On that A380 video - To me it looks like a dangerously short under-shoot and they barely made the end of the runway.
It's a bit hard to see in the video but if you look at the PAPI it seems to show on-slope .... the problem being that the camera is on the top of the tail and that means something like twenty metres off the ground as the wheels touch (It's about 25m on the ground when level, I'm allowing for strut extension and pitch angle)
Since the wheels would normally go over the threshold at around 50' then it means that they must have touched down very close to the end of the runway, if not before.

Transition Layer

10th Mar 2010, 03:04

Where's A380-800 driver when you need him for a full explanation!

And Flight Detent, in that video you're referring to, the mention of the A380 is merely pointing out the Air France 380 in the background that they pass whilst taxying out at JNB at the start of the video. Awesome vid though!!! :ok:

Capn Bloggs

10th Mar 2010, 03:13

2/25ths of a second before touchdown; threshold lights visible under the trailing edge:

http://i521.photobucket.com/albums/w334/capnbloggs/touchdown.jpg

Tail's 4-whites on the PAPI, so cockpit would have been a bit below that, but they would have been using the ILS GS for reference?

Led Zep

10th Mar 2010, 03:41

Why is someone using a video camera during landing?:=I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Pax know better than us these days.:rolleyes:

blueloo

10th Mar 2010, 04:44

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Pax know better than us these days.

Depends on the airline.

QF classifies the various electronic items in to categories based on potential impact to flight and nav instruments.

Pretty sure video cameras, digital cameras and a few others (essentially any non transmitting device) can be used at all times (a bit like the old film cameras).

[The only other considerations are high speed projectiles (from a hard short landing perhaps)moving around the cabin - but realistically there's bucket loads of that which is non -electronic carried into the cabin every day]

YPJT

10th Mar 2010, 05:30

Pretty sure video cameras, digital cameras and a few others (essentially any non transmitting device) can be used at all times (a bit like the old film cameras). Maybe on Emirates. On Qantas even your own noise cancelling headphones have to be turned off at TOD.

ol-mate

10th Mar 2010, 06:09

Maybe there's a delay between when the video captures the picture to when it displays on the screen.

18-Wheeler

10th Mar 2010, 06:24

Maybe there's a delay between when the video captures the picture to when it displays on the screen.

Sure.
That's more likely than the PAPI being badly miss-aligned, thus causing the aeroplane to touch down so early.

PyroTek

10th Mar 2010, 06:29

Maybe having an electrical device on during landing screwed with the aircraft's systems :}:}

:ok:Pyro

Capt Fathom

10th Mar 2010, 06:32

Maybe there's a delay between when the video captures the picture to when it displays on the screen.

Yes, a three month delay! But it still landed short! :E

Ultralights

10th Mar 2010, 06:44

wow, those youtube comments are funny :ok:

blueloo

10th Mar 2010, 06:57

YPJT - video cameras allowed at QF, noise cancelling headphones - not.

As for QANTAS this is straight out of the book:

Group 1 PED (Portable Electronic Devices)
PEDs of the following kinds may be used at any time, except when special operational restrictions are applied by the Captain:
• Electronic watches, GPS, electric shavers, video and still cameras, pocket calculators and other devices powered by micro-cell batteries and solar cells.

Unfortunately your example of noise cancelling headphones is in the Group 2 PEDs.

Group 2: Devices permitted for use inflight once the Seat Belt sign is extinguished after takeoff, until top of descent
PEDs including:
• Personal computers, PDAs, electronic games, music devices such as AM/FM receivers, Compact Disk, Mini Disk and MP3 players, one-way pagers and passenger supplied noise cancelling headsets.

Of course the list goes on and covers other categories too.

As I said this is for QF - and maybe they follow a standard which emirates use too. Or maybe nobody saw him - frankly chances of electronic interference are pretty remote so other than being a potential missile (fairly remote too) maybe some common sense prevailed and they let him use it.

Anyway that is all a side issue. Would you have loved to be at the holding point to see that - either wow thats impressivly bad or holy dog poo its about to crash!)

Its kind of lucky that 16 R as a bit of a mini displaced threshold (i assume its stopway or somethingerother )

Slippery Richard

10th Mar 2010, 07:17

Experienced the same thing landing at Heathrow last year, was watching the screen and we appeared to touchdown on the piano keys, however, kept watching and the deployment of the spoilers gave away the landing point....right where it should have been. You can just see the deployment of the spoilers in this vid too well after the actual touchdown, so I guess there is a delay of a few seconds, just my 2 cents worth:)

Jabawocky

10th Mar 2010, 07:38

And this one is more fun too........Until the fun police get ya!

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_4TRSYhrEJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_4TRSYhrEJE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

18-Wheeler

10th Mar 2010, 08:55

Damn good video, Jabawocky - It brings back memories of the last decade or so and also makes me wish I'd videoed more of what I did.

Capn Bloggs

10th Mar 2010, 22:33

was watching the screen and we appeared to touchdown on the piano keys, however, kept watching and the deployment of the spoilers gave away the landing point....
I think the landing point is reasonably obvious - when the camera is almost dropped because of the ker-runch! :eek:

Trent 972

10th Mar 2010, 22:56

Slippery Dick, The deployment of the spoilers don't give away as much as you may think.
Ground Spoiler extension occurs after thrust lever retard and 1 landing gear compressed (nose gear included) spoilers 1&2 extend to 10 degrees and spoilers 3 - 8 to 15 degrees at a rate of 5 degrees per second. After 3 main gears are on ground spoilers 1&2 extend to 35 degrees and spoilers 3 - 8 extend to 50 degrees at a rate of 17 degrees/ sec. Ailerons also move to 25 degrees up. I doubt you would notice the initial deployment on the fin camera.

Capt Kremin

12th Mar 2010, 07:51

Another one. Even shorter!:eek:

lpZvRea4S_8

KING PIN

12th Mar 2010, 08:13

OUCH that landing was real short ... DAMN

the pax must have had a scare

Jabawocky

12th Mar 2010, 11:58

Holy COW

Now what does A380-800 have to say about that one? Or was this one you?:}

Fragnasty

12th Mar 2010, 12:20

Holy smokes Batman - this is incredible!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these video images show aircraft landing on a runway, slowing down, and then exiting the runway on a taxiway!!! No doubt they end up at an airbridge a few minutes later, and the passengers get off. There are no crashes, no deaths, and everyone makes it to their destination as planned.

This is SHOCKING STUFF!!!!!

Wait until the media get their hands on it.....

Choice bro'!

Capn Bloggs

12th Mar 2010, 12:22

these video images show aircraft landing on a runway
Doesn't look like it. :cool:

an3_bolt

12th Mar 2010, 20:05

Holy smokes Batman - this is incredible!!

I believe it is!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these video images show aircraft landing on a runway

Short of the runway. Is the 34L LLZ still working?:eek:

Jabawocky

12th Mar 2010, 20:40

OK, Question from a bugsmasher to the big boys.

If I touch down a bit short at YCAB, apart from me caring about the condition of the surface, not too many folk care two hoots, but when these EK A380's keep doing it in Sydney, at what point does somebody care?.....i.e. CASA or the operator themselves.

Just like the LST light issue, unless its been pulled already the data is most likely long gone. Is it hand flying gone wrong or airbus automagics turned to "merde" ?

J:confused:

PS...not wanting an EK bash, the first one was sort of funny, but that last one is starting to push the envelope a bit too far.

18-Wheeler

12th Mar 2010, 22:21

As a comparison, are there any normal daylight landings we can see? If they all seem to touch down at the same point then we're probably getting excited about nothing - though they really do look rather short.

Capn Bloggs

12th Mar 2010, 22:37

There are some A380 landing videos at other places and the piano keys have well and truly gone past the wing before touchdown...

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I see there is no attempt to kick off the draft before touchdown; is this an A380 SOP?

Trent 972

12th Mar 2010, 23:04

A380 FCTM.

In strong crosswind conditions, the aircraft may land with a residual drift of 5 degrees maximum.
:uhoh:
18 wheeler. The video is live and accurate. What you see, is what they got. Scary stuff. How can this not be a great concern to CASA and the travelling public. They are landing A380's before the runway. What is the load bearing capacity of the tarmac in the undershoot area?

Horatio Leafblower

12th Mar 2010, 23:42

Hey Kant - have you seen "Belly of the Beast" on Youtube by the same guy?

He is very, very good :ok:

training wheels

12th Mar 2010, 23:49

In the airbus, doesn't the aircraft tell you when to retard the throttles and flare? So, can you blame the aircraft for all these short landings? :p

ABX

13th Mar 2010, 01:41

That Belly of the beast video is great stuff. That guy also has a heap of other worth while videos posted - The FE's Lament, posted above is another good one. I might waste an hour watching all of his vids.

Looks like being a freight dog has some advantages...

Thanks for the links.

DrMatt

13th Mar 2010, 02:06

It's inevitable that there'll be *some* delay before video frames make it to the seat-back displays, probably much greater than the delay pilots see on their MFDs. I don't know much about the A380 entertainment system but the feed may well go via a hard drive on the central server, and the in-seat part of the entertainment system probably buffers some frames ahead of time as well. Even a barely perceptible half-second delay is 120 feet at 140 knots. I don't think it's fair to critique these landings as "short" without having more information about the display lag or having other evidence as to the touchdown point.

P.S. The Belly of the Beast video is awesome, thanks for sharing.

18-Wheeler

13th Mar 2010, 02:07

18 wheeler. The video is live and accurate. What you see, is what they got. Scary stuff. How can this not be a great concern to CASA and the travelling public.

Thanks - That's my point - instead of jumping to conclusions, now we know what a more normal landing looks like and so can confirm that the ones in the other two videos are landing very short.
Dangerous stuff!

DrMatt

13th Mar 2010, 02:25

now we know what a more normal landing looks like and so can confirm that the ones in the other two videos are landing very short.

That or this one is on the long side. :) Obviously a smoother landing, but used more runway, usual trade-off. I still don't think we can conclude that the others landed before the threshold or dangerously close to it.

Keg

13th Mar 2010, 03:12

I still don't think we can conclude that the others landed before the threshold or dangerously close to it.

Most of the A380 drivers on Qrewroom reckon that they've banged it on well short. The spoiler deployment by the 1000' markers was one of the give aways apparently. They take a while to come up on the A380- as the latter video of the A380 landing in Dubai tend to show.

Led Zep

13th Mar 2010, 03:59

If you can work out at what airport and runway these landings happened at, next time someone flies in you'd probably be able to spot some big, fat, black A380 "elevenses" on the undershoot if they plonked it in short. :8

Capt Kremin

13th Mar 2010, 05:26

Both of them are on 16R at Sydney. And both, as we can compare the daylight video, are very, very short.

Back Seat Driver

13th Mar 2010, 06:58

A380-800 driver - as you say there may be more to the story
BUT there are no excuses short of 3 engines out, for an A380 to land before the runway threshold.

I16

13th Mar 2010, 11:44

BSD have you been in a 380 and if so which end.

PLovett

13th Mar 2010, 12:04

Isn't the Dubai landing long? :confused:

I know the camera is in the tail giving a false impression of the landing but the touchdown lights appear to have almost passed beneath the leading edge of the wing. This must make it well beyond the usual touch-down point. :suspect:

18-Wheeler

13th Mar 2010, 12:29

Isn't the Dubai landing long?

Yeah it looks long to me as well. If they're anything like a 747 you plan to touchdown on the 1500' markers.
I was always nervous about landing short in the big jet ....

Peter Fanelli

13th Mar 2010, 13:46

It's inevitable that there'll be *some* delay before video frames make it to the seat-back displays, probably much greater than the delay pilots see on their MFDs. I don't know much about the A380 entertainment system but the feed may well go via a hard drive on the central server, and the in-seat part of the entertainment system probably buffers some frames ahead of time as well. Even a barely perceptible half-second delay is 120 feet at 140 knots. I don't think it's fair to critique these landings as "short" without having more information about the display lag or having other evidence as to the touchdown point. I was tending to critique the landings by the very loud crash sound and the cameras going out of control. A380 apologists.....sheesh

training wheels

13th Mar 2010, 20:26

speaking of hard A380 landings, anyone still remember this one?

-yi9C8NE3Ek

Back Seat Driver

13th Mar 2010, 21:32

I16- Yes, I get a window at the 'blunt' end, which in the A380, is at the front of the aircraft. Some people might call it an ugly looking aircraft, and they wouldn't be wrong, but it is magnificent to fly. :ok:

I16

14th Mar 2010, 08:02

BSD .. cheers :O

dogcharlietree

14th Mar 2010, 22:21

Thanks jaba for the F/E's lament.
Ah, the way aviation USED to be. :ok:

Back Seat Driver

14th Mar 2010, 23:31

DrMatt I still don't think we can conclude that the others landed before the threshold or dangerously close to it.
Ref the 2nd A380 video.
Allowing for 'lowish' landing weight of 340 tonnes Vref+5 = 134 knots (226ft/sec.)
4 -5 seconds for spoiler deployment.
Autobrake deceleration rates of 'LO' @ 4knots/sec or 'MED' @ 5knots/sec. Therefore average speed in that 4 second period is 125 knots (211ft/sec) (any HW would decrease the G/S)
The video shows the spoilers extended before the aircraft reaches the 1000ft touchdown zone marking.
You do the maths.

Taildragger67

15th Mar 2010, 05:41

KantGrowHair,

yeah its awesome as!

The suspense is killing me. As "awesome as" what?!

Back Seat Driver

18th Mar 2010, 06:03