Brevet Question.

[Dan Winterland]

When I was a kid, by best friend's dad was a Fighter Controller, but had started his RAF career as a radar operator in Blenheims and then Beaufighters, and was technically one of 'the few' having flown in the Battle of Britain. I remember seeing him in uniform with a brevet and an impressive array of medals.

Does anyone know what brevets the radar operators wore?

[longer ron]

The short answer is 'RO' (Radio Observer)
but I believe in very early days of AI radar some operators had no brevet and some may have been ex air gunners who re trained,presumably they carried on wearing the gunner badge as long as possible.
Later in the war the 'RO' badge was replaced by the Navigator 'N' badge
Link to RO brevet pic...just scroll down the page

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rafweb.org%2FBadges3A.htm&rct=j&q=raf+radio+observer+badge&ei=50KTS--sA6eI0wTxnu3qDA&usg=AFQjCNHrGn7WIcbamrGrSiNEWrTbmv5UyA
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[longer ron]

Some recollections by EG White,he qualified as an RO in march '42 and was awarded the RO brevet.
Just a quick scroll through does not reveal when he changed to being a 'Nav'...unless I missed it of course

htttp://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=10&ved=0CDAQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nightfighternavigator.com%2F&rct=j&q=raf+navigator+radio&ei=RkeTS6_4MIS80gTH4t3rDA&usg=AFQjCNG11GhUg9LnWWG0p2fiQM4sjBjP5g (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=10&ved=0CDAQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nightfighternavigator.com%2F&rct=j&q=raf+navigator+radio&ei=RkeTS6_4MIS80gTH4t3rDA&usg=AFQjCNG11GhUg9LnWWG0p2fiQM4sjBjP5g)

In the book 'Night Flyer' by Lewis Brandon he describes doing a 3 week course at Prestwick - total flying time 5.5 hrs...he was posted direct to 141 sqn - missing out OTU entirely.
After 1 month probation he was promoted to sgt and given his RO brevet (sept 1941).
Later when the RAF went on the offensive,Lewis Brandon had to become a 'proper' navigator but was never given any further training so picked up experience 'on the job' with some help from his sqn nav officer...quite an interesting story.

[JW411]

The RO brevet was resurrected in the 1960s for some NCO rear-seaters in the Javelin. I knew two of them. They both ended up remustering as pilots.

[Dan Winterland]

Many thanks. As he was a Squadron leader in 1968, I suspect then he wore the N brevet.

[longer ron]

Hi Dan
Yes the original RO brevet was replaced in april 1942 by the 'N' brevet,but I doubt that all RO's changed over straight away,so I did not mention any date for that.
But I would imagine that they would all have been navs by late '42

rgds LR

[clunckdriver]

Many of the early radar operators fllew as airman with no aircrew badge or flying pay whatsoever, it was only when the King visited 604 sqdn and made a point of asking how could RAF aircrew such as John Phillipson, , who was John Cuninghams R.O for his first two confirmed kills not be awarded both Sgt rank and some kind of aircrew wing! There is the story about LAC Bernard Cannon, who without any aircrew status was awarded a DFM, when asked by an MP { or as we called them in the RCAF APs, or two thirds of an APE}as to who said he could wear such an award, simply answered "The King said I could!" Its my understanding that AVM Leigh Mallory objected to R/Os being awarded wings, wouldnt suprise me if this was the case.

[Dan Winterland]

As with all information required in one's life, all I had to do was google. From www.aviationcollectables.co.uk


Squadron Leader John Anderson

Anderson joined the RAF on June 6 1940 and having learnt about airborne radar he was posted to 604 Squadron without ever having flown. He flew operationally with 604, firstly in Blenheims and then Beaufighters, until December 1940, when he did another radar course. In January 1941 Anderson was posted to a radar station in Scotland before attending No 1 Radio School at Cranwell in May, as an instructor, initially as a Corporal but became a Sergeant in March 1942. Anderson volunteered for pilot training and was accepted in September 1942. In 1943 he was deputy controller at a small radar station on the Yorkshire coast. In September 1943 Anderson began his pilot training but with inevitable delays awaiting courses, he had still not qualified when training was terminated in April 1945. Commissioned from Warrant Officer in June 1955, Anderson retired from the RAF on January 31 1973.

http://www.aviationcollectables.co.uk/photographs/spsf04t.jpg

[Nav Rad]

I agree with the RO brevet being worn by the odd 'back seater' in Javelins. When I was training to become a Navigator at RAF Thorney Island in 1961 one of my instructors, I still know the name, was an RO on Javelins. It was I believe in those times meaning Radar Operator. They didn't do all the complete navigation training that we did. He eventually went on to Valiants, as I did, this time as a Navigator Plotter with a 'N' brevet.

[longer ron]

Yes the RO badge was reused briefly post war,but not for long,I cannot remember exactly but it was not used for much longer than a couple of years,presumably most were retrained as navs.
But not to be confused with the wartime RO badge !!

[Dave Ridyard]

Bernard was a friend of the family,, My mother called him Uncle,, I had the privilege to meet him on many occasion, he was wounded later on in the war and lost a leg due to those wounds after gangrene set in,
The story I was told is that the aircraft was hit and he was wounded but still managed to navigate back,

A lovely man, very humble, he never really spoke of the war, it was my mother that used to tell me the accounts,