FTA (qld)

[Dnav31]

G'day Guys,

Anyone know how FTA (qld) are travelling? Been into AF a couple of times over the last month or so, and doesn't seem to be to much activity?

[VH-FTS]

I keep hearing a rumour that doesn't sound too good for them. There was a thread floating around here somewhere about how they are going.

[Flying Bear]

Let no-one make the mistake that FTA is the same company that HM left behind - any credibility it had unfortunately died with him.

The current owner - a QANTAS Captain known elsewhere here as PB - loves to talk it up about his QANTAS connections but can only offer pipe dreams and the same old rhetoric that flying schools have become notorious for...

I understand that he has driven away many domestic students (not to mention heaps of staff...) and is waiting for some mega-Chinese contract to fall from the sky.

Latest Aviation Trader has the old FTA fleet for sale (HM's estate) - maybe PB couldn't pay the cross-hire bills for those aircraft??

Oh, by the way - don't fall for the trap of paying for a whole course in advance - the money's better in your pocket and you should pay as you go for any training lest the training provider goes belly up (seen it before at YBAF). In PB's case, if you shake hands with the guy make sure you count your fingers afterwards!

Try elsewhere.

[Cirronimbus]

I have contacted FTA and other flying schools at YBAF and elsewhere in SE Qld and FTA was one of the few that bothered to respond with quotes and info etc. Not suggesting that this makes them a good school but at least they bothered to reply. Perhaps they were desperate for my business? I wonder why it is that some schools (and other aviation businesses) just don't bother to respond to emails and phone messages? Already gone broke and closed down; lack professionalism, or just too busy?

How does a person just starting out in flying training know if a school is a good thing or not? I'm happy to travel to undertake the particular courses I need to do but I'd hate to make all the arrangements, pack up and spend a small fortune only to get there and find out the school is going belly up or they are going to treat me like just another "sausage" at their factory.

Any suggestions please?

Thanks,

Cn

[Aerohooligan]

Cirronimbus. Do not do it. There's plenty of better places to train in SE QLD...ok, there's fewer every week it seems, but you still have other options. Redcliffe Aero Club if you can manage the commute, or Air Gold Coast in the other direction. Sad fact is Brisbane is not the place to train.

[Zoomy]

Sad fact is that most schools at AF are not managed well, if at all. Perhaps the Aero club is, but aero clubs usely have a board of people with their finger on the pulse.
My advice, for what it may be worth: they are all after your money, make no mistake about that, its called cash flow. The concern you have is what you are getting for your money.

So your first port of call is the old journals or flying magazines if you like. Get to know the jargon by reading a little first. Perhaps you know someone in the business already. Go and talk to the private, ( as opposed to run by the training organisation), pilot supply shops, buy your study guides, they will know what you need or what you could start having a read of before you start, they will also provide a valuable insight into the airfield flight schools.

Take all advice, including mine with a grain of salt, ie start getting a feel and your own opinion of the industry.:ok:

[The_Pharoah]

hey mate

try Gil Layts...its old but thats where I"m going. :ok: Give Steve (CFI) a call.

Good luck.

[Torquatus]

Even better, walk into a few places and have a chat. It shouldn't take long at AF if you've got a Saturday morning free or a couple of hours on a weekday. You'll get a far better feel for what each operator can offer than some words on the internet, though a trawl through some of the training threads here will give you some ideas for questions to ask (and don't be afraid to ask questions, you are the customer here!)

My advice: if it sounds too good to be true ... it is! :ok:

[flyawaydavid]

Im training at Gil Layts,
It is fantastic!!

[ravan]

Since this is a rumour network........

Rumour has it that the Tax Office has a "wind up" notice on FTA.

Probably not surprising given the shameful way that the current owner has been running the place since he bought it.

Good luck to the boys and girls that will be affected in the mess that is sure to follow.

[smoka21]

Go to Gil Layt's. Apart from the aeroclub he is the longest standing there.

Most of the old guys on the field worked for him at some stage or another.

As previously mentioned, the place is old, (basically a time capsule), but nothing in the basics has changed. At Gil Layt's you are not paying for a song and dance, you are paying to be taught how to fly aeroplanes. Gil has done this very well, for a very long time.

Oh and as far as track record with airlines etc, just because they dont crow about it and put pictures on their walls, doesn't mean they haven't produced the airline product. The success stories from Gils are enormous, the boys are everywhere, none of them espousing their greatness, just quietly going about their business in the professional, discerning way they were shown how to when they learned to fly at Gil Layts.

Its humble, but it is by far the best.

[Flying Bear]

If that's true, what a shame and here we go again...

Staff not getting paid entitlements (super, etc)...

Creditors not getting settled...

Fantastic - not! :ugh:

[davidclarke]

Does This "wind up" notice have a credible source. Or just more FTA bashing? When was this wind up notice issued?

[VH-FTS]

You mean this?

ASIC Free Company Name Search (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=127_588_701&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

[bizzybody]

Does This "wind up" notice have a credible source. Or just more FTA bashing? When was this wind up notice issued?

:D SNAP!!!!

[davidclarke]

Cheers VH-FTS;)

[blueloo]

is this the bloke who got a bit tipsy on a flight and demanded to see the tech log as he tried smashing the flight deck door down on a QF jet?

[Capt Fathom]

The wind up applies to a specific company, not a particular operation.

So it all depends on what that company owns as to whether it will affect the flying ops.

Some companies continue to operate under 'new' ownership!

Doesn't inspire confidence when searching for a school!

[davidclarke]

Liquidation? They are obviously still open for buisness so no one has lost any money yet. Still a worry though.:confused:

[Flying Bear]

A dead set dirtbag, that PB...

I know that he owes heaps of people money - staff entitlements, aircraft owners, etc...

I daresay that he will escape the "wreckage" of FTA quite well and the thing that sucks is how he will no doubt continue to enjoy the cushy QANTAS job knowing that he has shafted plenty of other people. I'm sure that he will continue to drive his BMW and not have to personally pay anything to anyone.

I guess my question is - although it is probably none of QANTAS's business, how would they feel about this behaviour of one of their Captains in the general public??

I was always brought up to believe that Captains are senior Company representatives and therefore their behaviour reflects publicly on the Company. Surely QANTAS would not be a fan of this type of thing?

I wonder if he will laugh about the dramas he has caused, ripping off everyone from students, staff and other creditors when he is flying his QANTAS Airbus....

[Zoomy]

So is this the start of the end for YBAF. I mean look at all the schools, pretty quite don't you think! While everyone is having a go at PB, and some may have valid cases, I wouldn't know, have a look at the airport owner and his goons. Strong growth there. Also Sydney airport report, for all the money they are making they sure as hell don't pass on their profit to the airlines and yet without them no passenger would be present to spend money.

All airport owners pull your heads in.:ok:

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Had a look on the ASIC entry for FTA;

Looks like the 'winding up' action has been dismissed.

[Dnav31]

I agree with you flying bear. He is not fit to breathe the air we do. Qantas would be embarrassed, you would think, or hope, if they knew how he was conducting himself outside of his work hours while at the same time promoting himself as a Qantas Captain. Shame on you PB. Is this how you expect your " Airline Cadets" imported from overseas to behave and to conduct themselves? Not to mention the staff who you employ and shaft on a daily basis. You have destroyed the FTA name. It will all catch up with this man and it won't be pretty. It has been brought to my attention that perhaps FTA is not in liquidation, but an application was put forward to do so. None the less, it only looks like his time is running out. Creditors and staff have had enough. :ok:

Do they not remember the trip back form asia, when a certain Captain, associated with FTA tried to get through the big bad door!

[Dnav31]

Rich- Fine -Green,

Apparently he pulled a nother rabbit out, and got an extension..... At the end of the day, he is not destroying a company, he is destroying a name the Humphrey spent many years building to a reputable business. I hope he copes what is owed......:suspect:

[Capt Fathom]

Haven't you changed your tune Dnav31 !!

From your original post #1 as to what was happening at FTA?, to sinking the boot right in with those last couple of statements!

I can understand people who are directly affected being peed-off!

But wishing misfortune on others is a not the way to go!

Rooster one day, feather duster the next!

[atminimums]

Good riddance I say. FTA is done and dusted, and has been for a loooong time. H did well and was a great bloke - but lately, far too many students have been lost in the woodwork within that place.

I feel sorry for them. I fear that this is the beginning (or middle) of the end of GA training at YBAF. :suspect:

mins

[Zoomy]

I fear that this is the beginning (or middle) of the end of GA training at YBAF. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif




Mate I think Sunland are trying to get the International market, they have FTA's ex marketting guy and I believe selling the exact same speel. Not sure how they will go. Any thoughts?

[atminimums]

Mate I think Sunland are trying to get the International market, they have FTA's ex marketting guy and I believe selling the exact same speel. Not sure how they will go. Any thoughts?

Hard to say. I know they are going for a 'new image' though, but I just can't see any school at YBAF putting up solid competition against the operators out of sydney and melbourne gaaps for too much longer.

What will be very interesting is seeing the outcomes (short and medium term) that come about after the transition to class d...

[The_Pharoah]

Quote: " I fear that this is the beginning (or middle) of the end of GA training at YBAF"

noooooooooooooooooooooo :eek:

Bris is Australia's third biggest (and fastest growing) city. We simply can't let flying schools die at YBAF. Redcliffe/Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast are simply too far away for Bris residents.

If FTA dies, surely some other training org will rise out of the ashes (hopefully someone with ethics, management skills and solid cashflow) and continue. I live two suburbs from YBAF and hear/see the training a/c every day so there's definitely a demand.

[Ando1Bar]

Why is there the view GA training at YBAF is dying? Sunland, RQAC and AAA are all still going strong and Flight One is growing. Not sure about Gil's future but they taxi past a few times a day.

[LeadSled]

----- out of sydney and melbourne gaaps for too much longer.

Folks,
Not a lot left at YSBK, Aerospace gone, SFT gone, Basair sort of going elsewhere, several others struggling, and BAL hardly helpful and encouraging.
Tootle pip!!

[dghob]

One of the more enjoyable aspects of my job in recent years has been to enjoy my lunchtime sandwich at YBAF where I can watch the GA & training comings & goings as well as being there for the odd exciting moments such as when war birds are (were) about or the DC4 might make an appearance (like in the movie made out there some years ago).

I was out there a couple of times recently in the middle of a weekday after a few months away and the place seemed deserted each time. There were 1 or 2 aircraft in the circuit but that was it. Even the aircraft parking area in front of the old terminal was empty. There wasn't one FTA aircraft active that I could see (in the airport vicinity) and I did wonder about that.

I'd personally hate to see it close, but you'd have to wonder what the future holds for Archerfield. Will the number of remaining businesses be enough to justify its continued existence and what would be needed to keep it going? I agree that the alternatives are a long way away for Brisbane flight students but if things don't turn around soon there may be no option.

I love Archerfield and I hope it and its users have worthwhile futures but it's a worry at the moment.

[vigi-one]

So i take it the FTA is still trading? I saw SQNLDR PB's name in the Amberley Flying School minutes is he still CFI and Boss of the Air Cadets?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Why is there the view GA training at YBAF is dying?

Dunno, but it's been around for awhile now, at least a decade. Maybe the AAC should do some positive marketing, rather than giving everyone the impression the whole airfield will be sold off for industrial development and McTownhouses (including flood-proof canoe) as soon as the legislation allows. The individual schools do their best, but there is always a sense of Impending Doom at Archer's Field.

Maybe it's a Brisbane thing :sad:
They shut it down
They closed it down
They shut it down
They pulled it down.
Go-Betweens, "Streets of Your Town"

[Numbers Up]

In the Australian the last 2 weeks has been a tender notice for flight training for the Griffith Uni course. I thought AAA had a long term agreement in place. Could shake things up in the future!

[Ando1Bar]

As planned, the agreement is due to expire end of this year. GU have gone to market, which is only natural. Not really relevant to the FTA thread though.

[Zoomy]

From what I can see AAA do a fantastic job. GU should stick with them. Can't speak for FTA, but I believe that AAA are the only ones capable of providing the necessary requirements for a structured uni course. All others are only dreaming.:zzz:

[atminimums]

From what I can see AAA do a fantastic job. GU should stick with them. Can't speak for FTA, but I believe that AAA are the only ones capable of providing the necessary requirements for a structured uni course. All others are only dreaming.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sleep.gif

Zoomy,

I would have to completely agree. However, every school in the SE that is even remotely capable of providing similar training would be putting in an application for the griffith training tender. Although, I can assume that FTA won't be... :cool:

[j3pipercub]

Unless things have changed markedly, the Uni course and the flying are completely separate. Why you need to do it at an 'Airline Academy' is beyond me...

[Rich-Fine-Green]

J3PC:

I believe you are correct.

As long as the course and the flying is separate - No University in Australia can really 'force' a student to fly with a particular organisation.

Only If the University has it's own flight school and the flight training is fully integrated with their course.

[atminimums]

j3PC and Rich Fine Green,

You are both correct. No Griffith student is forced to fly at AAA, or any particular fliying school. However, all students that opt to have their training covered by HECS HELP are required to fly at a particular flight training organisation, dictated by the University (at the moment, that school is AAA).

For those other students that are paying privately for their training, the choice is theirs (150hr, 200 hr etc..)

mins

[davidclarke]

Just a suggestion but wouldn't it be more benificial for Griffith Uni to open the tender up to mutiple flying schools. This would give students the choice to choose the product that suits them best. (remember its the students money). Also it would provide competition between flying schools making the students flying more affordable. At the moment AAA seems to be able to name their price in relation to Griffith students.

And as Far as the continuous FTA bashing goes. Remember we are all in this together. Some of the derogatory comments directed towards FTA and individuals are over the top and immature. We sit here post silly insignificant posts and we expect people to take General Aviation seriously. We are not helping the continued fight to keep GA airports open and flying avaliable to everyone with this kind of attitude. :sad:

Come on guys and girls. Lets be positive. :O

[Zoomy]

David Clarke,

You will find that if you open up the tender to all flying schools the standard of the potential airline cadet will drop. Quite often these smaller flight schools are exactly that, small, they have inadequate facilities to cater for one on one, never mind 20 cadets. The instructors that work there are often under paid and maintainence issues take a long time to get rectified, therefore delaying a students progress. In fact once these smaller schools got a taste of the money, due to multiple cadets, the cost of flying would go up because they would then start to over capatalise their inadequate facilities. The smaller schools have never budgeted for expansion, fleet upgrades or copy paper for that matter, therefore over the last 20 years thay have become severely old fashioned. They have been content to take money and not inject back into the industry, they have therefore ruined GA.

I remember when RQAC had the fore sight to inject money and make change to suit the industry. The changes started 20 years ago. They continue to evolve and put back into the industry. The smaller schools could change, but it won't be over night and thier attitudes toward the industry need to change.

[j3pipercub]

Geez Zoomy, windup or do you work for them?

j3

[Jabawocky]

I see a lot of FTA aircraft are to be sold at auction by Kim Rolph Smith on 24/6/10 at YBAF.

[rioncentu]

Yeah Jaba I saw that full page add in today's Trader. Doesn't look pretty when they hock off a whole fleet like that.

Unfortunately it seems to happen with unfortunate regularity.

[TBM-Legend]

FTA [as it is now] never owned the fleet. HM's estate does and time to collect for the family...

[Jabawocky]

Apparently they are old FTA aircraft....not those of the current operators.......

This is a rumour site after all :ooh:

So if you want a cheap clapt out old Cessna here is your chance!

The Partly navia looks about the best deal :eek:

J

[TBM-Legend]

With so many 'experts' on how to run a business on here I would think that here is an ideal opportunity for PPRUNE Flight Academy! Pony up with a few of your own bucks, take a chance and make some big $$$$. From the comments often posted here the existing owners can't so step this way....:ok::ok::ok:

[bizzybody]

Hi TBM it's funny cause I've said that a few times before

[vigi-one]

Whose aircraft are they using now then?