An incident or not?

[mercurydancer]

Please bear with me as I need some sound advice and this is not a wind-up.

For reasons I can't go into as they are to do with a possible court case, something unusual happened today with a police helicopter which was above the scene of what I cannot go into........The reason why the helo was there was legitimate but I had some concerns.

It was dusk and the helo had no navigation lights whatsoever showing. Nothing. No red or green or rotating light. I could barely make out the silhouette. This was for approximately 10 minutes and the aircraft departed for its base still not showing any lights.

It was close (about 2nm) from an approach to a small airport ( its base) but the helo was well under the descent slope, at probably 500 feet.

Is this permitted under any circumstances? It is probable that infra red was used. The searchlight was not used.

If this is an incident what should I do about it? CAA to be notified?

I would appreciate sensible and pragmatic answers.

MD

[PENKO]

Next time you encounter an incident like this, flash your headlights twice.

[jeepys]

Why, did you almost bump into him?

[manfromuncle]

Maybe it was an incident, maybe not. Complain to the CAA, the police, anyone one you want. You will not get anywhere. Unless a police helicopter crashes into someone, your complaint will get filed in the bin. "Essential to a police operation", "security alert", "ongoing major investigation", etc.

[Whirlygig]

If this is an incident what should I do about it?Why do you feel the need to do anything? Was the helicopter hindering your covert operation? And if you couldn't see the silhouette, how do you know it was the Police helicopter rather than say, a military helicopter or somebody about to fail their night qualification?

Cheers

Whirls

[spinwing]

Mmmm ...

I doubt that this would be classed as an 'incident' in an aviation sense.

It may well be an incident in a police tactical sense.

I doubt you will fault the aircrew ... it may be there was a requirement for them to not show 'lights' and their actions may well be allowed for by their approved operations manual.

My advice .... leave this alone .... smells of a 'fishing expedition!

Cheers :=

[SilsoeSid]

I think what you are fishing after is;

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf
Sect 2 page 24

As this wasn't at night, nav lights need not be displayed and the anti col could well have been u/s.

As for operating under the descent slope, this happens even at large airfields.

I suspect the only 'incident' was the one the Police were dealing with that I suspect you simply want to know more about. Why not call them?

[spinwing]

Mmmm ...

A bit of 'light ' reading then ........


Excuse the pun ...... ;)

[pasptoo]

Got to agree with Whirlygig and Spinwing,

Why do you feel the need to report this, incident or not? Was it night flying or not? Perhaps they had a day VFR clearance and had to return within the 10 mins you state.

Weren't our boys in blue conducting a nice clean up mission keeping you safe in bed at night or do you have something to hide????

If you are trying to complain perhaps because of noise, you appear to be within 2 miles of an airport, they tend to be noisy places.

Perhaps they had a lighting failure when airborne and only noticed as it got dark?

Not enough info to make a call. I'd be quite happy for the police to be above my house catching bad guys lights on or off.

pasptoo

[oscardog177]

From what you have 'not ' said, I take you or one of your friends was caught doing something by the police helicopter and you are looking for a way to have the helicopters footage thrown out on a 'technicality'.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

Rob

[cptjim]

There was a similar post to this not long ago, I think involving a Met EC 145. Maybe firearms were involved and the air unit saw fit to turn off the lights to avoid being a target.

[Miles Gustaph]

"For reasons I can't go into as they are to do with a possible court case" ...great, another "possible" scum-bag goes free because someone wants to lynch a pilot because they "had some concerns".

The "sound advice" is don't talk about such things on a public web-site... if you cause the collapse of a trial involving the CPS they may well decide to prosecute you!

[griffothefog]

It's official..... The UK has gone mad :{

[Gordy]

giffothefrog

It's official..... The UK has gone mad

Come on over this side of the pond----We cannot spell for ****, and ruined your language, but what the hell....:):)

[spinwing]

Mmmmm .....

.... It's official..... The UK has gone mad

YOU said that was the case ages ago ... and was the reason you beat a tactical retreat to the Oman .... :D



:p

[Non-PC Plod]

Mercury,

Dont know what your gripe is, but you can safely assume that the police aircraft was not doing whatever it was doing for the purpose of winding you up. They have a job to do, they are doing it as professionally as they can. If it was dusk, it wasnt night (sunset + 30 mins). Even if it was night, perhaps they were concentrating on catching bad guys, and forgot to put their nav lights on for 5 mins or so. Big deal! They can do without verbal sniping, as well as real sniping!

[SgtBilko]

I think Mr Mercury should have declared an interest.......

in a post elsewhere on PPRuNe 2/10/2008 he said...... "OK I am outed as a Health and Safety Executive investigator".

no problem with you or your job, Mr Mercury, but I find your "tactics" to say the least underhand.

[Fly_For_Fun]

You obviously don’t have to be very bright to investigate for the HSE.

Manfromuncle
You will not get anywhere. Unless a police helicopter crashes into someone, your complaint will get filed in the bin.
Do you not like the police very much?

[griffothefog]

spinwing,

Maybe it's me that's officially gone mad, but I like this place :eek:

I knowe itts defunutly ficked up me shpelling in langoage skulls (thanks for the invite Gordy, but 2 years of spraying cotton in Mississippi was plenty) :ok:

[manfromuncle]

I have no problem with the police, I just know you won't get anywhere complaining to them. Just like complaining to the military.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....


......Maybe it's me that's officially gone mad,

Perhaps ... BUT ... its more likely ADA was the cause of that not the UK :p



;)

[Hedge36]

"I have no problem with the police, I just know you won't get anywhere complaining to them. Just like complaining to the military."

Still begs the question: how is it that a position light blackout inconvenienced Joe Public enough to warrant a complaint?

[TheGreatUnwashed]

Mercury,

Okay, it was me, I forgot to put 10 bob in the meter before going flying and the electricity ran out!

TGU

[Coconutty]

Nav / Position lights are designed to be seen when it IS dark, by pilots of other aircraft.
The lights are designed to be seen from certain angles, and also so that they can NOT be seen from other angles -
to help other pilots determine the orientation and direction of the aircraft.

AFAIK they are NOT designed to be seen specifically by H & S Rep's. :rolleyes:

You haven't said where you were during this "incident", but if, for example, you were on the ground
directly undrneath, then I doubt you would have been able to see any of the Nav / Position lights,
or the Anti-Coll light, so would not be able to tell if they were switched on ( whether they needed to be or not ).

If you were further away you might be able to see them, but then how would you have been able
to determine so precisely where the aircraft was operating :confused:

There is also the question of NVG compatible lighting - fitted as standard to the latest Police Spec. EC135's.

Geenral concensus - Leave it :=

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/Coconutty.jpg