Avoid joining Emirates.

[puff m'call]

To all of the Pilots out there thinking about joining Emirates.

Please don't. That's what I want to say to all of you. What you read here on PPRune is true, all of it.

If you have a job in your home country and you're not about to be made redundant then stay where you are! It's not the right time to come to Emirates or Dubai. (If there is a right time)

What they aren't telling you at the road shows is that you have no rights, no contract and the management rule by 'fear and intimidation'. Remember what happened to the First Officer under training on the Manchester flight? Screw up and you're out!!! it's simple, and you get no support, even during training.

Yes you sign a contract for sure but all that amounts to is a bond for xxx$ and nothing else.

We have a shortage of pilots and we have to cancel flights because we don't have the crews to operate them, then and only then will our conditions here improve, they will have to up the package, to attract quality Pilots.
Everything here from management (UAE style), flying hours per month, days off, crew rest on ULR flights and two pilots operating max hours at night is appalling.

From Clark down to Stealey they are all doing their best to destroy all goodwill that has been built up over the years, and as long as people help them out by working days off and other favours then nothing will change. All they want is "bums on seats" and they don't care who.

So all I want to say is read these treads very carefully, i'll say it again, it's true what you read about Dubai and about Emirates.

Only join if you are desperate, and don't say you've not been told.

[sheikmyarse]

Guys

as Puff says ..don't.
Before doing something stupid send me a PM. I will tell you my name and my desert stories and then you will know what is Emirates about.
Unless you are really really desperate stay away!

[ManaAdaSystem]

I thank you both for these innovative and groundbreaking posts!

Mods, it's high time you start to tidy up the ME forum. 10+ EK front page threads with the same cr@p over and over again.
How about a; "Don't come, you have been warned, EK edition" thread where you can collect all the whining about EK.
Then a QR, EY, GF, etc, edition as well.

Maybe we should have a discussion about what we want the ME forum to be?

[nolimitholdem]

And while we're at it, let's have a thread dedicated to the people who complain about the people complaining. You could call it the "if you don't like it, leave" thread. Since you're into innovative and groundbreaking comments.

The fact that the front posts tend to be dominated by negative comments about Emirates is perhaps because the climate at the company lately tends to be dominated by negative, repressive changes. If you have some good news feel free to spread the sunshine. Standing by.

If you don't like it, perhaps don't read it? It's not like you couldn't guess what the topic was from the title.

[Chandler Bing]

EY thread already exists.... and it's full of the same don't join posts , slightly a less amount coz it's been fewer years old.....
Please ManaAdaSystem, go back to your desk/office, whatever you call it, and let people warn about dangers of going to ME, whatever the carrier is, there is no difference in management style....fear
Contract ain't worth the paper it's written on
No right
No life
No future

[Kapitanleutnant]

I've been a reader only here and have to say something finally. I would highly advise against any of you out there considering Emirates.... just don't do it!!! Plain and simple. If you are not starving, there is a better course in another profession.

This place has turned to absolute rubbish.

You've seen how many posts are on this forum of how bad it is at EK.
Take it all on advise from those who know.

Stay away from here...... far away!

K

[ManaAdaSystem]

If you don't like it, leave. That should apply to nearly all EK drivers in here, don't you think?

[nolimitholdem]

*yawn*

What were you saying about innovative and groundbreaking comments?

I swear, the only thing more boring than people complaining, are the people who complain about them...yes, yes, there there, we're all trying to leave, don't worry...lol

[ByeByeDubai]

ManaAdaSystem:

Why should the mods "tidy up the ME forum"? Is "tidy" where posts you do not like are deleted? This is purely freedom of speech and your calls to subdue it are entirely contrary to what Pprune is about.

The repetitive gripes about EK simply show that things are not all well in the opinion of many who choose to express themselves in the same forum you express yourself. If their claims were unfounded, their noise would die down not rise in volume. That is the nature of expression. Freedom of speech takes care of itself. What is false dies. What is true grows.

If 10000 posts all said exactly the same thing, it would be repetitive certainly but also make a strong point. Isnt that the background to any backlash? The growing volume and agitation shows all is not well. Others must be allowed to judge not only on the points made but how often, how strongly and by how many.

Regarding your "if you dont like it leave" attitude: This is uneducated in the extreme. If you cannot see the issue as more complex than your naive solution, then you have a lot to learn about the world, life and people. I can only assume that you are either from a repressive regime or are a repressor yourself.

Grow up. Let others say their peace. If you have contrary opinions or arguments that show the claims of others to be untrue then express them. You too can benefit from the freedom. If many vocally support your stance then once again freedom of speech will win the day.

If attempts to muzzle others is your only retort then I conclude you have nothing useful to say

[ManaAdaSystem]

There is a difference between giving factual information in one or two different threads, and starting a new thread stating the same information over and over again. Not to mention starting one to complain about pajamas-use or @sslicking in EK. Those threads should be binned, they have nothing to do with freedom of speech. It's just garbage.

All this talk about being overworked? To me it seems like you have way to much spare time, time you spend here complaining about anything and everything. It's coordinated effort by EK pilots to turn away new joiners so you can force an improvement in T & C's.

[NZ X man]

"Forum" 1. the public square of an ancient Roman city where business was done and courts and public assemblies were held. 2. an assembly for the discussion of questions of public interest. 3. law court. 4. tribunal

"Middle East" region from the eastern Mediterranean to India

"aviation" flying in airplanes; the art or science of navigating aircraft.

" air line" 1. system of transportation of people and things on aircraft. 2. business that transports people or things by aircraft. 3. route of aircraft. 4. a straight line

Thordike . Barnhart, dictionary

Cheers ,:}Good Luck

[puff m'call]

ManaAdaSystem

The same would of course apply to you...if you don't like it don't read it. :ugh:

My thread was for people thinking of coming here, not it would seem for you.

It matters not how many threads of similar information are posted here, we are free to say what ever we wish and what we feel. These posts are for the benefit of other people who don't know whats going on in this airline.

[Edge On]

It's coordinated effort by EK pilots to turn away new joiners so you can force an improvement in T & C's

ManaAdaSystem, obviously you're missing the point here. As most of the posts you complain about make abundantly clear, pilots at EK have lost any sense of fair consideration by the company execs with their apparent scant regard for T and C's and there is no form of recourse... hence, the outflow of criticism in this forum. People will find a way to vent. Fix the problem and the symptoms will go away.

BTW, this is my first post on pprune after observing for 3 years while working at EK. I'm a patient sort but the current situation is getting to me as well. It's time to say something. :ugh:

[MosEisley]

Hey Mana,

What the hell do you care if people complain? It is their right as it is yours to not like it but I have to wonder, what is your agenda in discouraging negative threads or comments? What if the pilots goal was as you say, to improve T&Cs, what business is it of yours and what harm would it do you if that were the case? It makes me think you may be some typical management stooge or suck up. This is a pilot forum. IF you are indeed management, start your own board where you can spout off all you want about how great you think things are at EK and in the industry in general. I doubt anyone would read it, but knock yourself out. I for one appreciate the honest and real experiences that pilots are talking about because you certainly won't get that from a dog and pony road show. So, Mana, I would like to request that you respectfully pi$$ off.

[sheikmyarse]

Notwithstanding the fact that any profession involving responsabilities would require a higher level of morality, in certain environment, the ones with the lower level of it tend to prevail cause they are able to think only of their own personal advantage, lke beasts. If in nature the fittest survives, in the jungle of an unregulated and absurd capitalistic system , the one with the more evident lack of human desirable qualities like honesty, integrity, empathy, understanding and solidarity will.
In democratic and secular society this does leads to widespread corruption and other undesirable effect, but is somehow mitigated by a legal system, while in a place like Dubai where morality and legality are just screamed to the masses three times a day to prevent their rebellion to the objective situation of slavery they live in, this is far more true and dangerous.
So before thinking of joining Emirates consider that
1) UAE is a federation of dictatorships resisting democratic reforms using a non existent culture as an excuse.
2)you will not have any rights
3)your life will be in the hands of some asslcking idiots trying to make as much money as he can pleasing his local superior.. and run.
4) you and your family may find your self in serious trouble for any stupid reasons and you will be guilty until proven innocent
5) to prove your self innocent if someone think your guilty will be impossible
6) nobody will help you

Don't trade you freedom and rights for a few bucks. Just think of the ME as an absurd commistion of middle age and modernity. It is in fact year 1400 and somethign according to the islamic calendar and that is where they stand on the civil and human rights .Add an insatiable greed in the equation and you have the full picture.
They will get what they deserve sooner or later and actually it is already happening. Stay away!!!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Well NZ X Man said it: "discussion of questions of public interest."

@sslicking?

So 5000-10000 Dirhams extra pr month will take care of DXB traffic, will make the Arabs go away, give you 50 hrs/month rosters, give the right to wear the pajamas when and where you so choose, turn UAE into a Democracy, and all those who have failed the upgrade will now breeze through?
I'm not saying all is well at EK, but I will say that you are not as unique as you seem to think you are. You all know it, that's why most of you don't have the cohones to bail out. Maybe all the good guys left, and only the monkeys are left?
So tell me, what will it take to make your lives complete again?
It's not like whining EK drivers are a new breed of pilots. You were here complaining even in the "good old" days.

[ernestkgann]

You've got the answers mate, take the job, no amount of discussion here is going to make any difference to you.

[nolimitholdem]

lol

Ah ManaAdaSystem...such breast-beating...cohones? Who are these "you all" that you refer to? Do you even work for Emirates? If you do, then you are one of "us", except perhaps more in denial...if you do not, why do you care what is posted or said? Who has the sad life, that they need to voluntarily be offended? As far as I know, the FOM does not yet mandate reading PPrune. (Probably an FCI being drafted as we speak.)

I still await your positive news and sunshine, to refute even a word of what has been said.

Dear god can you be more obvious of your slant than your comment about a coordinated effort by EK pilots? Would that it were that sophisticated! What splendid "monkeys" we truly would be! hahahah Like all good EK managers you speak out of both sides of your mouth...which is it, are we whiners, or plotters? You can't have it both ways, my little man.

Please, back to your desk. I'm sure there's a dirham to be saved somewhere.

[Alconguin Crusader]

Mana A S

You never answered the question addressed earlier; are you an oppressor or from an oppressed country. Either way that explains your lack of the concept of freedom of speech. I come from the land of the free and love freedom of speech. Even if I don't agree with what the person is saying at least I know where he/she stands and we can talk about it. That concept as we all know is sorely lacking at EK.
Let Freedom (of Speech) Reign!

[captplaystation]

The sad thing is , all this good advice will fall on deaf ears. The same deaf ears who join Ryanair after reading ALL the threads, and then say "how could we know it would be like this", or are, even now, shelling out large wads of cash to subsidise Easy Jet for the "dream" :rolleyes: to play airline pilot for (maybe) 6 mths.
These bright young things are exactly the cannon fodder that will wing its way to you, no matter what good advice you offer.

Ostriches can fly ! ! :ugh:

[Instant Hooligan]

Rumour has it that recruitment have said the negative info on here is making it difficult for them to get people. Well it may come as a shock, it ain't pprune making it difficult it's the deceit, lies and dishonesty of the management within ek that's making it difficult.
Keep up the good work boys.

[Pitch Up Authority]

How many pilots outside the UK know about PPRUNE ?

Would it not be better to write to the various Pilot Unions and ask them to provide the web address in their Union magazine?

This way EK will only get those guys that are really motivated and loyal.

[Trader]

Any pilot anywhere looking at leaving their home likely comes onto pprune!

[davidibiza]

By the way, the proper word is "cojones"....:)

[jackbauer]

Any pilot anywhere looking at leaving their home likely comes onto pprune!
But only an idiot would base his/her decision to move on what they read here. PPrune (ME forum) has lost it's effectiveness as a useful resource for pilots. Too many unbalanced and over excited views from people who have other motives. Much better to do the ground work elsewhere and make an informed decision. It would be a shame to miss out on a job that you might really need or enjoy just because of an opinion voiced here.

[cerbus]

At the same time one can not discount what is being said here. There is a lot of negativity but that negativity is generated by managment not pprune.
When the pilots say their contract is shreaded that is true. It is also negative but the management decieded to shreed our contract not us. So if we as EK pilots tell the world what management has done to our contract does that make us negeative or just a mouthpiece of freedom of speech?

[a345xxx]

Freedom of the press! Everyone should be entitled to their opinion! If you don't like it you don't have to read it. :)

[freddi16]

How many pilots resigned from ek since january 2010?

[LHR Rain]

The company will not tell us. Usually they publish the list every month but according to the TRE,I they have not published the list in quite awhile. Remember the only news in the middle east and especially at EK is good news or the news that they feel fit to say. This is not information that management thought we as pilots should have.

[Maurice Chavez]

Wonder how they are going this explain this during their 10th of March road show in SA.....

Friday, February 5, 2010
Alexandra Johanna
A friend of mine has just had an incredible thing happen to her, it's almost like fiction. I'll explain it via an e-mail that I sent to George Hook today...



Hi George,

Greetings from a cold and snowy Toronto. Regarding my tweet about an Irish citizen in a spot of bother in South Africa, here’s the story:

My wife and I used to live in Dubai, my wife used to fly for Emirates, we still have quite a few friends there who are flying for them, one being an Irish girl (her name is Liz). Liz has had a history of stomach problems, ulcers etc... before Christmas she went to the Emirates clinic in Dubai (they are so large that they have their own hospitals and clinics for their staff) complaining of stomach pains and general tiredness etc. She went back to them for test results a couple of weeks ago but the clinic had lost her results, so in the interim the Doctor decided to up her ulcer medication.

On the 21st of Jan, Liz was on an overnight Johannesburg stop, she had severe stomach aches during the night - it turns out that they weren't cramps, they were labour contractions. She self delivered a premature baby girl in the hotel room and with the assistance of the staff was able to get the baby breathing and get to a private hospital. Liz did not know she was pregnant. I believe that staff in Emirates welfare department back in Dubai were initially being very good to Liz & baby but as of a few days ago (George – here’s the real kicker) her contract has been terminated and her health insurance revoked, She's now alone in JNB stuck with USD$86k medical bill (the hospital need payments up front for the next three months worth of care for baby Alexandra) along with accommodation costs, food etc... why, you ask did they terminate her employment and revoke her insurance? Because she is unmarried. She has worked for them for seven years and they have left her stranded in JNB.

Emirates have also told her to vacate the hotel she is staying in and she now has to find alternative accommodation for the next 5 months (baby Alexandra will be in hospital for three and it will be another two months afterwards that she can travel back to Ireland)

Liz has told me that the staff in the hotel she’s in (and soon has to leave) have been superb and even had a baby shower for her in her hotel room. I have written to one of the Vice Presidents of HR in Emirates who I know and explained the situation to him as I suspect it wasn’t escalated that high up the ranks. He has said they will investigate it.

If there is a silver lining, it’s that Liz is lucky that she didn’t give birth whilst in Dubai as she would have been jailed as it’s against the law to have a baby out of wedlock.

The unfortunate part is that she’s now stuck in JNB for the next five months. There is a facebook group called ‘Alexandra Johanna’ where there are details of an account that any donations can be made to help Liz and baby out. Her family and friends have managed to raise a good amount of the medical fees but we’re still many thousands of dollars/euros away from what the hospital are asking.

Anyhow George, that’s the story. I hope it’s of interest to you. If you need more info including mine or Liz (in SA's) tel number, please let me know.

[sheikmyarse]

In the animal reign the fittest prevails.
Ek is an extreme example of the absurd mechanism that unregulated capitalism has created in mankind, the survival of the bastards!
It is not the individual with desirable human qualities like empathy, solidarity,altruism, integrity, morality prevailing but exactly the opposite.
In a democratic and secular environment this is somehow mitigateted by a legal system.
In a religious dictatorship like in Dubai this is taken to the limit.
Morality and integrity are just screamed from the minarets to provoke fear and prevent any attempt of emancipation from the enslaved and disinherited working masses ,while immorality, servility, greed are the desirable charaterictics for the people chosed to manage them.
In this perspective the goal of this "manager" becomes only to ammass the biggest amount of money taking advantage of the situation and of the large unaccountability they have, and run.
Would you like to be managed by greedy, immoral, servilist anaccountable managers? This is what is going to happen if you join EK. May be you are a lucky chap but sooner or later you will have some kind of problems.
You will be on your own, always guilty and if you will stand for your rights they will mobb you to death!! Moreover unfortunately many Cpts in EK are part of this "managing class" they will spy on you, report you, pretending they are your friends, to please their superior and to safeguard their salary and benefits. Think about the italian idiot that reported the guy that gave the sandwiches to the driver? How can you be like that?
Anybody thinking of joining EK and needing insights you can PM me. I have some interesting stories for you.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

I worked for a unionized '1st world' outfit 20 years ago. Similar thing happened to a cabin crew down route at the time. Gave birth during layover. She was fired the same day. Nobody, not even the union believed that the pregnancy was unknown to her. She had to settle her own medical bills as well. Doesn't make EK a charity ... but who in the industry is?

[coffindodger]

It seems that help may be on the way for this lady.
Sassypilotswife might be own to something here.

http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=5545333&posted=1#post5545333

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Jeez. sheikibumms ... really! I also have interesting stories about the Vatican, the NZ brewers union and the Austrian sailors-in-nun's clothing fetish group...But you probably shouldn't be posting after having a couple...

[Desert Driver]

I have been with EK for over 12 years and joined with great expectations, I have enjoyed some good times but it has gone too far now. I am off as soon as I can get my family out of here. It will take at least 6 months for me to get my ducks in a row but I am away as I am fed up with the deception.

[wakbaralwaker]

You couldn't make this stuff up. The very same and much much worse is going on down the road in QR. The message is simple, no matter how desperate you are for a job, for your own sake hold out and try to get something away from this region.:eek:

Wakbar

[Imperator1300]

Surely the ME has to be taken in the right spirit?

A good place to spend a couple of years, get some experience, maybe save some money, and then go home. Don't plan to spend your whole life there and don't take it too seriously.

Well, that's the way it used to be :)

[Marooned]

Times have changed.

EK once billed itself, maybe perhaps even prided itself on a long term career option.

The pilots used to be the best advert for a career here. Now the effect of many, many detrimental changes and p**s poor management at all levels have driven a once good job into the ground.

[NEWYEAR]

The fact, no broker is dealing with Emirates, isn´t it?:cool:

[freddi16]

I've Heard Rumors That They Want To Delete The Bidding System,is True?

[old747man]

what happened to the snooty recruitment team ....who are sending emails all over the world to the pilots ...rather begging them to join......6 yrs ago pilots were lining up to join and now emirates is knocking doors to come and join....?

[freddi16]

Anyone know how many new courses (330 or 777) are scheduled for march?

[The Zohan]

where its acceptable to have single mothers with multi colored children

...and I'm so proud of it! Because in my society a woman is worth more than a camel, you :mad:

look at how the free world has become.

...can you pls enlighten me? Thanks

tz

[Nightfire]

Well, the thing is that fascist opinions from immature people like "wet v2" brought this girl into very deep trouble now. The double-morale of some primitive hypocrites who value one life more than another.

However, she knew that very well in advance. It was she and her "boyfriend" (if you want to call him that) who caused the pregnancy and brought this situation upon her. Sorry, but the virgin-mary-story that she didn't know what had happened is just ridiculous and I don't believe a word of it. Thank god the baby is alright!
The question is: why did she not seek proper medical advice earlier on??? Could she not have taken some leave, gone home to Ireland, and seen a proper doctor there, for example?
By ignoring the facts - and that's all that it was - she risked the life of the child and herself.

I too agree that it's not the responsibility of Emirates Airways now to bail her out.

[InnocentBystander]

I too agree that it's not the responsibility of Emirates Airways now to bail her out.

Because maybe it's the right thing to do?

Following your logic, then the EK Capt. who crashed with his motorbike in the desert and got a bunch of operations and was off medical leave for three years should've had to pay for it himself too, no? Since it was clearly his fault and he could've known better, right? :ugh:

Have some compassion man...

[Nightfire]

Have some compassion man...

Oh, I do. I feel very sorry for her, believe me. But what has happened to her was not an accident (and by the way, if an insurance would specifically exclude motorbike-accidents in it's contract, then same would apply to this captain).

We all, and this unfortunate girl too, know what happens to unmarried pregnant girls.
So perhaps Emirates may decide to be charitable in her case (which is not very likely), but basically that's what it comes down to now.
It's not just my logic, it's the law.

[Nightfire]

and made their society a step closer to one like the UK, and Ireland where its acceptable to have single mothers with multi colored children, all being paid for by the tax payer.

That IS a fascist, racist and a plain stupid remark. I generally agree to your point that the girl and her ex-boyfriend brought her into that terrible situation, and not Emirates.
That's not what I'm criticising about your post.
I also don't want to discuss the hypocritical laws.
But this remark which you have made here shows what a kind of person you are. Did it ever occur to you that the father of that child might as well be a Local, and if so, this guy is now enjoying his social benefits at home and doesn't have the least bit of remorse or responsibility about what he has done?

all being paid for by the tax payer.

Yeah, our society takes care of its citizens. Any problem with that? Maybe we should rather stone them to death, for being "immoral" or what? I wonder just who exactly around here benefits most from his government's generosity.

And you say I am hiding behind the "fascist banner"? Man, you better just keep your mouth shut.

Okay, and now you tell us all what we can do if we don't like it here. :rolleyes:

[McGreaser]

.........now how the hell did we end up here ? Discussing pregnancy and EK Capt's :} from what l gather. Anybody feel free to put us in the loop or is it thread creep ?

[Nightfire]

I don't know either.
The thread started up as yet another boring old "don't join..." thread.
Might as well close it. I'm outta here.

[EGGW]

Can we get back to the thread subject please, as is normal the thread has taken a diversion.

EGGW

[ratpoison]

Hahaha, from a topic of reasons not to join an airline and ending up with accusations of racism, fascists, UK tax payer handing out benefits to multicoloured kids and pregnant Irish gals, aviation is just a f###ing hoot.:D

[astronaute]

"That IS a fascist, racist and a plain stupid remark"

Telling the true is, now , being a Fascist and a Racist ? And why not being a Nazi ???

Take a break mate !:hmm: