A warning to those who make libelous and defamatory posts.

[Long Bay Mauler]

This is on the West Australian site today.

Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued (http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cyber-poisonpenner-hunted-down-and-sued-20100225-p4bw.html)

It looks like some people should carefully choose their wording in future.:ouch:

[Howard Hughes]

You haven't read the terms and conditions very closely have you? There is no 'anonymity' on an internet forum!;)

[PLovett]

The answer is simple. Even if you disagree with someone or their view, be respectful in your disagreement. You only debase yourself when you descend to personal vilification.

[Ixixly]

"Oh noes, someone said something mean about me and my company on the interwebz, well since I have no real way of contradicting what he has said in a logical and well worded manner i'll just have to hire someone to find him so I can sue him!!" :ok:

Oh, and the above paragraph has nothing to do with any real or fictitious characters whom may or may not be alive and appear heavily in a recent news article mentioned in the above posts. Just incase someone decides to come hunt me down and sue me too!!

[Capn Bloggs]

Drat. I just got sucked in to visiting www. Dick Smith Flyer! :{

While I was there (don't tell anyone) I liked this bit:

and don’t let the 1%er’s get you down.

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle a little bit black? ;)

[Frank Arouet]

Oh, and the above paragraph has nothing to do with any real or fictitious characters whom may or may not be alive and appear heavily in a recent news article mentioned in the above posts. Just incase someone decides to come hunt me down and sue me too!!

Then why write it in the first place?

[onetrack]

There is no difference, under legal definitions - of posting a defamatory and slanderous attack on a person or company, on a website or forum - as there is in doing the same, in any other form of public dissemination - be it newspaper or magazine, or even word of mouth.

The laws of defamation and slander are quite clear and unambiguous. If you broadcast statements to the public, that are patently untrue, be prepared to be sued.

If you're expressing a robust opinion, you have the benefit of the law of "free speech".
Just ensure that your robust opinion is precisely that, and that it does not include malicious statements, and repeated, untruthful, assertions - that can be construed in a court of law, as seriously affecting the good public standing, and good public opinion of - or is to the financial detriment of - that person or company.

There are plenty of Rottweiler lawyers out there, prepared to make a name for themselves, by scoring lawsuits from financially well-heeled individuals and corporate bodies - who are prepared to spend substantial monies, to protect their good name and public image.

[Howabout]

Agree Bloggs,

And, I do not think that this is the end of the world as we know it. Personal vilification should not be on the agenda, and Dick was quite right to pursue a previous apology; but loopy ideas (E over D in the terminal environment with RPT) are fair game.

In reference to the above, I suggest you have a read of the Avalon Post Implementation Report by CASA itself, then read the Aeronautical Studies done by consultants, but (apparently) endorsed by CASA, on Alice and Launy. Tell me if you see some inconsistencies. They're on the CASA website. It's worth a little effort and I was gob-smacked by the inclusion of Justice Gibbs' reference as to what constitutes negligence in the Alice aeronautical study.

To put that in context, look up the 2008 CASA aeronautical study when Avalon airspace was still CTAF/Class G. Then look for the reference about Class C vs Class D.

I'll leave it there. Have a read.

As an RPT operator living in the lap of luxury (in one of the best places on the planet), you have plenty of time!

[Capn Bloggs]

Thanks Howa. I've put Gibb's quote on the KTA/BME Tower thread:

http://www.pprune.org/5534542-post217.html

[AerocatS2A]

Posting on the internet is pretty simple, don't say anything you wouldn't want your name associated with, no matter how anonymous you may think you are. :ok:

[tail wheel]

It looks like Bug-a-lugs beat me to it. I was about to again post a warning on PPRuNe about libelous and defamatory posts, when I found this thread.

Every day or so a Dunnunda Mod removes a thread, removes one or more posts, or edits posts due to libelous, defamatory or malicious posts and comments.

The frustrating and annoying part is that the PPRuNe user's post which was modified or removed to protect PPRuNe and that user from the risk of litigation, then sees fit to send abusive PMs and emails to the Mods! :ugh:

For those who blatantly and repetitiously post vexatious and malicious comments and libelous or defamatory posts, I recommend you read the following news article published in The Age newspaper today:

Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued

TONY WRIGHT February 25, 2010

LEGAL counsel Martin Bennett has a short message for those who allow themselves to attack reputations over the internet, imagining they are safe under the cloak of anonymity. ''You can be hunted down and found,'' he said yesterday.

Mr Bennett has done just that for a Perth client, winning $30,000 in damages and costs, an apology, and undertakings from a Colac man that he won't post any more defamatory comments.

The hunt for the man's true identity proved the stuff of private detective novels updated into the age of blogs.

It is, Mr Bennett said, one of a very few such actions in Australia against the author of anonymous postings on an internet forum. He predicts it is the tip of a legal iceberg.

''There has been an increasing proliferation of internet chat sites where people feel free to hide their identities and make defamatory comments about companies and their executives and directors,'' he said in a statement released after the case in the Supreme Court of Western Australia was resolved.

The action against Graeme Gladman began after highly uncomplimentary comments appeared last November under pseudonyms on the HotCopper website, a stockmarket forum.

The postings related to technology security company Datamotion Asia Pacific Ltd and its Perth-based chairman and managing director, Ronald Moir. One posting appeared under the pseudonym of ''witch''.

Datamotion and Mr Moir hired Mr Bennett to launch defamation proceedings. But first Mr Bennett had to track down ''witch''. He asked HotCopper to reveal the identity of the person registered under that pseudonym, plus two others under different pseudonyms, but HotCopper refused.

Mr Bennett then took court action, forcing HotCopper to turn over its files. ''Unfortunately, the registered membership name appeared to be false,'' he said. ''It turned out to be attached to an escort service in Geelong.''

But Mr Bennett was not prepared to concede the trail was cold. He told The Age he did not wish to reveal the details of his next detective steps, but the upshot was a defamation action against Mr Gladman alleging that, as a result of his postings, Datamotion and Mr Moir had been ''brought into hatred, contempt and ridicule and thereby suffered damage''.

It was resolved last week, with Mr Gladman agreeing to pay damages totalling $20,000, taxed legal costs of $10,000, and to provide apologies and undertakings not to publish further defamatory postings.

Mr Bennett has launched two more cases. Both are pending before the WA Supreme Court.

Users may be anonymous to other users on PPRuNe but the fact is, you are not and never were anonymous and untraceable on PPRuNe or any other internet web site. All web sites you visit record or have the capacity to record your IP address. A simple application to an appropriate Court and your ISP will realease all your account details - as some PPRuNe users have already discovered! Don't ever think a Hotmail or Yahoo email address will guarantee your anonymity - from the simple tools PPRuNe Mods have available we can usually trace your IP almost to your location. We've even had mentally challenged users posting defamatory comments about their employers, from their work computer terminals!! :=

I have just removed a thread from the GA Forum which identified a medical practitioner and inferred he was professionally incompetant. I don't think that doctor - or his legal Counsel - would have too many problems justifying an action for defamation! It would not be the first time a PPRuNe user has had to pay for a moment of thoughtless indiscretion!

PLovett makes a very appropriate and accurate comment:
Even if you disagree with someone or their view, be respectful in your disagreement. You only debase yourself when you descend to personal vilification.

And AerocatS2A:
Posting on the internet is pretty simple, don't say anything you wouldn't want your name associated with, no matter how anonymous you may think you are.

And a consideration to those whose threads or posts are removed or edited then send absuive PMs and Emails to the Moderators:


Our actions in Moderating or editing a thread are always in the best interests of PPRuNe or more often, in the best interests of the PPRuNe user involved. Whether in your jaundiced opinion you agree or not is not our concern.

The days of ignoring vitreolic messages to Mods or our explaining our action are over.

If you make libelous, defamatory or malicious posts or comments you run the risk of having your PPRuNe access rights removed.

If you then send abusive PMs or emails to Mods, we guarantee your access will be removed.


I am happy to say it is a pleasure to Moderate this forum for over ten years as 99% of users always post within the rules.

This warning is specifically for that 1% of PPRuNe users who repetitiously create problems for all of us!

[Jabawocky]

Sorry Tailly...........back in my box! :oh:

[tail wheel]

Yes Jaba. We're watching you and your cohorts! :E

Bug-a-lugs. I sent you a PM confirming how "anonymous" you are! :}

[Howard Hughes]

Jaba and cohorts almost have enough members for their own forum! Perhaps called... 'ALL Things RV' (for those that love them and those that pretend not to)!;)

[tail wheel]

I have received a copy letter sent on behalf of CASA, to an individual in respect to comments that individual made.

This letter may indicate a change in CASA attitude to criticism?

The Prime Minister is also promising new legislation regarding material posted on the internet.

Think before you post. If in doubt, send the proposed post to me first.

[Rabbitwear]

Dont have to worry about been sued by defaming AIPA, every time an abusive post comes up its either deleted or thread closed. Guess ill need a new handle after this post. Common Qantas moderators give me a lifetime ban so I cant get sued , please.:D

[Capn Bloggs]

Jaba and cohorts almost have enough members for their own forum! Perhaps called... 'ALL Things RV'
What about "Bugsmashers United"? :}

[Jabawocky]

Good idea Bloggs....and you know you want to join us! :ok:

In your bugsmasher smasher!:uhoh:

Long time no speak...how are ya up there!

J:ok:

[tail wheel]

Common Qantas moderators give me a lifetime ban so I cant get sued , please

:ugh: :ugh:

No PPRuNe Moderator is employed by any airline in the Qantas Group or is a member of AIPA.

But we do get very tired of every Qantas/Jetstar flight delay, mishandled baggage, aircraft defect or Qantas executive f@rt being posted on D&G News as the latest and greatest calamity which will cause the demise of Qantas!

Whilst Qantas or Virgin have never to my knowledge over the past decade, contacted PPRuNe to "influence" posts or seek user details, that is not to say that many posts on PPRuNe, naming Qantas and Virgin executives, staff etc, may not have provided adequate cause for legal recourse.

:mad:

[Capn Bloggs]

Jaba,
Long time no speak...how are ya up there!
Enjoying my remaining Class G time at KTA and BME! :} And waiting with trepidation for Tailwheel to put me back in my box.;)

[Worrals in the wilds]

tail wheel,
Does PPruNe get many requests / nasty lawyer letters demanding a poster's identity? Does the site get many 'take it down or we'll sue' requests?

[compressor stall]

Macair. M@cair.

Interesting - the word Macair is no longer substituted for asterices...

[tail wheel]

Worrals. Not sure internationally. I am advised of some instances but I guess there may be quite a few over time?

Had a few over the years in Dunnunda. SOP: Review the post; edit or remove the post or thread if necessary; never reply to the threat. We don't buckle under to a threat unless the post or thread is clearly untrue, libelous, defamatory or malicious. Conversely and despite any threat of legal action, a soundly based and justified allegation won't be removed merely because someone got offended by the truth.

Never had any contact or threat from any major Australian airline.

Only one or two threats have headed towards the Courts.

Mods generally remain annonymous to avoid attempts at "influence", threat, or direct and personal contact. Some of you may know or guess Mod identies, but proving it in Court may be another matter altogether! :}

Stallie. We can all discuss Macair Airlines (operated in PNG in the 1970's) or MACAir LLC, Dubai without any censorship, but let us leave ****** alone! :}

[Howabout]

tail wheel,

I think you and the rest of the Mods deserve a pat on the back. The Mods have probably saved a few asses over the years with some judicious calls.

[Icarus2001]

Tell me how, once they have tracked your IP they can PROVE who punched the keys on the keyboard without reasonable doubt?

One step further...if you only post from assorted internet cafes how can they ID you? Security camera footage showing you at a terminal at X time?

[tail wheel]

Tell me how, once they have tracked your IP they can PROVE who punched the keys on the keyboard without reasonable doubt?

No idea.

One step further...if you only post from assorted internet cafes how can they ID you? Security camera footage showing you at a terminal at X time?

Well, I guess one could move from internet cafe to internet cafe just to post on PPRuNe...... But I could not imagine why one would bother to do that? :confused:

Most PPRuNe users have the same pattern as your 1,288 posts Icarus, virtually all from their home computer. I can even see when you changed your home ISP! :E

[PLovett]

Icarus2001,

A defamation action is a civil action and therefore the standard of proof is, on the balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt. It was once described to me as being a 51/49% basis and therefore much easier to prove. :ok:

[porch monkey]

Spot on PLovett. And so many people don't know the difference.........