V Australia HR Shame..

[positive_RoC]

It seems V Aus HR are on the bongs!! I was recently offered an interview with V Aus which would have required me to disappear from work in under 24 hours as they had a cancellation. They did advise that I should let them know asap which I indicated I would. Then less than 2 hours later they say that the spot has been filled.

"We have had an interview slot open up on x day at x time, if you can attend. Can you please respond to this email ASAP as we have limited spots available.

Regards

Flight Crew Recruitment
V Australia"

Is there anything in this email to suggest that it is an auction styled offer???

Can anyone tell me how a working pilot is meant to have annual leave commencing in under 24 hours approved in under 120 minutes????:ugh:

A mate of mine was also given a confirmed interview and had it changed three times, such that the third offer preceded his flight arrival time... flights forfeitted!! and now he looks like a knob because he has been jerking his manager around with seemingly sporadic annual leave requests.

Are Voz looking for unemployed bums living in Brisbane hanging off their email because it seems that they believe you shouldn't let your current employment get in the way of this honour bestowed upon you!!!:yuk:

[coaldemon]

Why don't you save yourself some time as it looks like your attitude is so poor the last thing any airline should do is bother interviewing or employing you.

An Airline is a dynamic environment and your interview is a long way down the list of most Chief Pilots must do's.

[Capt Fathom]

Yep!

Welcome to aviation! :E

[404 Titan]

coaldemon

As someone who has conducted airline interviews in the past, I would expect a prospective employee to treat his current employer how we would expect to be treated. In my opinion “V Aus” are out of line. As a lot of HR departments these days are run by Gen “Y’s” this doesn’t surprise me one little bit. :yuk:

[1224]

Its Vaus man. You get what you paid for. Or rather what you dont get paid for (ie alot).

If they jerk you round like that at the interview stage, what do you think they'll be like when you work there.

[Cost Index]

Let's just say this.. If their interview process shows such lack of respect for you... then what would that say about working there then? Hmmm...

[Cost Index]

Just read your post 1224, :rolleyes: on the same lines me thinks though! :ok:

[MrSheffield]

I know someone who has been dikked around by Voz Flight Recruitment b4. Nothing new. They obviously couldnt care less who filled the position, as long as someone does. They think most guys would drop everything and anything to attend one of their interviews. Sorry guys your airline aint that f*kn great.

[TSIO540]

Why don't you save yourself some time as it looks like your attitude is so poor the last thing any airline should do is bother interviewing or employing you.

An Airline is a dynamic environment and your interview is a long way down the list of most Chief Pilots must do's.:yuk:

How does not being able to organise leave leave in a couple of hours equate to such a poor attitude?? Would you advise a pilot to simply walk out on his/her current employer for an interview?

Pull you head out of the sand coaldemon!

[an3_bolt]

Would you advise a pilot to simply walk out on his/her current employer for an interview?

Not fair or morally just to ask someone to do that. Conversely looking from the opposite end - "if" you were a "good employer", would you employ someone who has just left their present employment in the lurch?

[NoN1]

Coaldemon, I have read some stupid posts over the years, and yours is right up there. Aviation operations are dynamic. HR is in an office. If the CP is called out there will be someone else able to be called in to fill the interview seat. If there is a cancellation by all means offer an opportunity at short notice to candidates on the chance they may be 'on the spot'. For scheduled interviews, keep with the program. Large operators with dedicated HR have no excuses jerking applicants around, and if they do they have lost their integrity from the beginning and should be avoided if possible.

Furthermore, you seem to be pushing the bar lower in your post, would it hurt to set your expectations higher?

[Stationair8]

Great if you live in Brisvegas working at Woolies/McDonalds/KFC and get drop a shift , you can get there asap, bit different if you live in say Karratha or Derby and the boss has you out on a charter for a few days!

Agree with 1124 and Titan.

[skol]

Hey coaldemon,
You sound like one of those guys that will pay the airline to employ you.

[neville_nobody]

The old phrase 'a lack of planning on your behalf doesn't constitute an emergency on mine' springs to mind.:}

[VOz_HR_Sheik]

Not sure what you are complaining about.

You really should be able to show your 'flair' and jump through all hoops if you expect to get into 'V'.

We dont have a sim ride to cull applicants, so the flexibility of your spine is our best guage.

Consider yourself lucky to have even been called.

Once you have been 'assessed as suitable' by recruitment you at least know what to expect when you join.

Keep up the back bending and reap the benefits of nepotism...... I mean 'merit'.

Welcome to the family.

:ok:

[TSIO540]

Yes, they are for Cruise Relief FO positions

[blueloo]

Wish I'd been the genius who came up with the HR department! Talk about creating a non-existant/irrelevant job.......now if only I can think of the next must have non-essential department

[Gnd Power]

To the OP

being a little precious aren't you!. V only asked if you were available!!!

Oh Yeah, I guess you pulled your application and told them not to call again. :)

[cropdusting]

I agree. Despite your whinging, would you turn down another interview offer after such horrible mistreatment.

Also, I'd be careful what you put on here, you never know who's reading - wouldn't be hard for them to work out who you are.

Best of luck to you.

[Cactusjack]

VOz HR Sheik,In answer -

Not sure what you are complaining about.
You really should be able to show your 'flair' and jump through all hoops if you expect to get into 'V'.

I have lots of flair, happy to dance a jig, laugh and dance and work for minimun salary just for the chance to be part of Bransons's worldwide campaign against unfair duopoly's ! That's me.

We dont have a sim ride to cull applicants, so the flexibility of your spine is our best guage.
Consider yourself lucky to have even been called.

No SIM Ride, no problem. Can't remember the last time I used one anyway. Is it a 'must have' ? I do have flair instead, does that count ?

Once you have been 'assessed as suitable' by recruitment you at least know what to expect when you join.

Oh yes I do know what to expect. And I cant wait to start my tenure, flying for peanuts to support a crusade against unfair competition, where staff come first and profits last ! Count me in.

Keep up the back bending and reap the benefits of nepotism...... I mean 'merit'.

Nepotism ? Surely not at VOZ ??


Welcome to the family

I agree. I am sure I have the 'must haves' to join, and I can't wait !

[UAL Furlough]

I can give a little insight into this exact situation. We love to blame HR and management when things like this happen, but the truth is that some pilot accepted the job and then backed out last minute...after all the interviewing, training setup, etc was done. It left Vaustralia with 2 days to find guys to interview (THU/FRI) and find a guy who could start on Monday. A tough ask for the company and for the guy who could do it.

Now I have always said that "LUCK" = Opportunity + preparation.

I was at headquarters Vaustralia on Wednesday for a meeting and heard that they were looking for guys on short notice. I had a friend who wanted a job at V and he was a good candidate. I told my manager about him, he said "can he interview tomorrow and start on Monday?"....so I called him.

He was on holiday in Sydney, but he said "no problem, I have my interview suit with me and I am ready to go. (preparation). I asked my manager to call him, they did, he interviewed on Friday and because he was a good guy and had a great relationship with his current boss....he was offered the job and was able to start on Monday. He helped the company...the company helped him. When the "opportunity" represented itself, he was "prepared" and some would say he is lucky. I would just say that he did the right thing.

So you can bitch all you want about V and what they did, but the truth is a pilot screwed them and when the opportunity struck, you weren't prepared and therefore we could say you were "unlucky". Personally though, I would just say that you were unprepared and I am glad that you aren't going to be coming to V anytime soon.

[eocvictim]

I hope VAus sees the irony when said applicant gets a similar short notice offer at a better airline. :ok:

[slice]

Why on earth are V finding themselves so short of candidates at such late notice ? It sounds like HR really don't have their act together and / or they attract candidates that submit an application but can't really be bothered with the interview process for the terms and conditions on offer, which to my mind is a little unusual. Although it has to be said these terms and conditions plumb new lows for a long haul operation out of Australia.

[404 Titan]

UAL Furlough

I’m sorry that is a bull sh*t excuse. Vaus are living pay check to pay check in regards to pilot recruitment. It is a classic sign of a disorganised HR department unable to organise sufficient interviews to build a proper hold file. Any organisation that expects any candidate to interview with 24 hours notice and then be able to start a few days later deserves the candidates it gets, i.e. the ones that will leave you in the lurch at the most inopportune time when a better offer comes along.

[neville_nobody]

We love to blame HR and management when things like this happen, but the truth is that some pilot accepted the job and then backed out last minute

Did the guy sign the contract then walk out......or did they finally get around to showing him his actual individual contract, he read it then had second thoughts??

If it's the latter then V have noone to blame but themselves.

[UAL Furlough]

Titan,

Whatever...I am so SICK of people in this world blaming others for their misfortune. I guess I am old school....when the going gets tough, I pull MYSELF up by the bootstraps and move forward. I don't expect the government to take care of me and I don't blame others for my misfortune.

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid".

[Mach E Avelli]

At the interview:

'How did you get here on such short notice?'

'Well, I pulled sick, dumped the pax where they stood and jerked around my mates who then had to come in on their days off and cover for me'.

If they hire people like that, both parties will be getting exactly what they deserve.

[senshi]

Mach E...

Funny, but so very true! UAL, point taken about being prepared, but an interview with a groundschool to start 4 days later..:confused:

S

[404 Titan]

UAL Furlough

You may think you are old school but you are demonstrating a classic Gen “Y” characteristic in expecting a prospective new employee to show absolutely no loyalty to his current employer. If you really want employees like that you can have them.

All the rest you have written regarding people in this world blaming others for their misfortune is complete garbage and is simply you throwing up a smoke screen and trying to deflect everyone’s attention from the fact that Vaus’s HR department is in complete disarray.

[boardpig]

If you take the perspective from any other professional industry, you'll see just how unprofessional V has been here.
They're playing to a captive audience which is how they get away with it.

By pandering to it and justifying it, you are only allowing the industry to be dragged further into the gutter.
But of course 90% of those who "just love flying" won't see it this way.

[Red Jet]

As UAL Furlough (who is most DEFINITELY NOT Gen-Y BTW :-))has just pointed out, VA had a late notice cancellation of an interview slot and were looking to fill it with someone who was available on short notice. Nobody in our airline EXPECTS anybody to burn any bridges, it was quite simply an opportunity that came up on short notice and we would expect potential interview candidates presented with this opportunity to, - BY THEMSELVES - decide whether they are in a position to come in on the short notice that was the case, on this particular occasion.

Normally, ample notice is provided and there will be plenty of interview opportunities later in the year, as the new aircraft are arriving.

And to the starter of this thread; - to suggest that our HR-people are on "the bong" is probably not the best way to deal with this issue, seeing that you are (or at the very least WERE) - interested in a career with VA, as evidenced by the fact that you have of your own volition applied for a job with VA.

To start winging before you even have come in to the interview, strongly suggests that you may not be the kind of person that I, or any of the other flight crew would really care to share a cockpit with for any length of time anyway:}

C'est la vie:rolleyes:

[404 Titan]

Red Jet

I never said he was Gen "Y". I said he was demonstrating a characteristic of one, which you are as well. No working pilot should be expected to drop everything at short notice to attend an interview and under no circumstances be expected to start with anything less than 2 weeks notice to current employer. Most require more for your information.

We quite often have cancellations in interviews at short notice. The slot goes vacant as we have a hold file which allows us to fill course dates with plenty of notice to the succesful applicants.

[Red Jet]

We quite often have cancellations in interviews at short notice. The slot goes vacant as we have a hold file which allows us to fill course dates with plenty of notice to the succesful applicants.

404 Titan - I understand that, and appreciate what you're saying. We have a hold file too, but the slot wasn't just for an interview - the actual course started the following Monday - and the reason for the vacancy was that someone had already accepted the course position, and then pulled out at the last minute. If slot had been left vacant, the late cancellation would have left some poor guy without a sim-buddy through the entire endorsement process!

[TSIO540]

So you can bitch all you want about V and what they did, but the truth is a pilot screwed them and when the opportunity struck, you weren't prepared and therefore we could say you were "unlucky". Personally though, I would just say that you were unprepared and I am glad that you aren't going to be coming to V anytime soon.

I know the OP, and have heard the details. I am a firm believer in making our own luck with preparation however to UAL FURLOUGH... I would dearly like to know how a pilot COULD get prepared without warning to walk out on their employer with 24 hrs notice and still get a reference or heaven forbid have a job to go back to??? And if they did just drop everything and run, how this would make the candidate 'suitable' for an airline???

[Swift6]

Ok its' time to lay this one to rest.

By doing this I would hope that those reading will show some respect for me by not taking my part in this thread any further.

By replying I am interested in protecting my integrity as it has been questioned.

I was phoned for the interview at short notice - so were 3 other candidates all in a position where they were able to start on Monday.

I was on holidays in Sydney at the time on the first week of 3 weeks annual leave.
With me I had my suit and all I needed for any potential interview - I decided that I should be prepared although the chances of anything happening were low.

I had been preparing for a potential interview since December - knowing that the industry was picking up and that this year is going to be a big year for the aviation industry.

In regards to walking out on my employer - not true. I worked for a company who's core business is not aviation. I spoke to the board members and let them know it was my intention to find a full time flying job this year. They were extremely supportive.

Being that I was one week into 3 weeks annual leave and the other pilot was able to cover the flying workload; my short notice in leaving the company is no issue.

As to questioning why someone would work for V Australia - remember that each person has their own reasons for working where they work.


Swift

[VOz_HR_Sheik]

There really is no need for preperation.

Just turning up should secure you the position as cruise FO.

We are soon to drop the entry requirements to 500hrs total and a heartbeat.

All successfull applicants can expect a very long time sitting in the back.

See you at the sausage sizzle.

:)

[404 Titan]

Swift6

Well it’s good to hear that you were on holidays when you had the late notice for interview. Personally I don’t know how you would know the individual circumstances of the three other candidates but that is beside the point. The point I and others are making is that candidates shouldn’t be asked in the first place to drop everything and attend an interview and worse still be expected to start with only four days notice to their current employer. If it was a case you put on your application that you could start immediately I would have serious doubts about your potential loyalty as an employee and whether you would leave us in the lurch as well? The only exception would be if you are currently unemployed. What would you have done if the interview was right at the end of your holidays?

Red Jet

You delay the course. Simple.

[Red Jet]

You delay the course. Simple.

Hmm, maybe that would be simple in your operation.:confused:
We already had 5 candidates that had flown in to the venue ready to get crackin' and with the sim-schedule being what it is, I'd imagine that the person(s) who decided on this, thought the right thing to do would be to try to fill the slot that had been left vacant by the last minute cancellation.

I don't think the company has acted immorally (or expected anybody to do likewise) and it sounds like the successful last minute candidate still has his integrity intact, so perhaps it is time to move on as Swift6 suggested.

[Swift6]

Titan - No I didn't put on my application that I could start immediately.

I knew one of the candidates already and I got to know one of the other candidates prior to the interview.

I can see your point about someone walking out on a job thats not right - however in my situation this was definately not the case.

If you read my previous post you would have read that the company I worked for previously was not an aviation business. I had the support of the board members and my managers. If it happened at the end of my holidays the situation would have been exactly the same - I would have spoken to my employer to ensure it was ok with them.
The flying load in the months ahead can and is being handled by the other pilot. I was fortunate to have a very good working relationship with my employer and thus they were happy to see me move on.
When my training is finished I will spend a few days (of my own time) finishing off the non time critical projects I was working on and ensure a proper handover.

As far as things go on the airlines side of the story - They had someone pull out at the last minute; they needed the position filled. Four people were interviewed at short notice all able to start on Monday. I do not see delaying the course as an option! In a perfect world maybe, but we all know that we do not live in a perfect world and if an airline requires crew by a certain date then they have to do what it takes to make it happen.

This is my final say in the matter - I hope this clears the situation for those that are so concerned.

Swift

[404 Titan]

Swift6

You would be surprised how flexible an airlines training machine can be regarding courses dates if required.

You are very fortunate that you had such an understanding employer. 99% wouldn’t be that understanding. That said I’m old school and even if I was on good terms with an employer, I wouldn’t leave them with such short notice. By the way what was the notice of resignation requirement in your old contract? Anything less than that, no matter how good a relationship you have with your employer is a most definite no no.

[Snatch]

So the stars lined up on the day. :mad:'in leave it alone!

Swift6 is happy, VA is happy, but 404 wants to impose his religious views on everyone else :ugh:

[404 Titan]

Snatch

Maybe your smart arse attitude sunshine is why DJ and JQ haven’t given you an interview yet? This is a small industry and if you want to go and burn some bridges be my guest. With only 4500 hours to your name though you have a lot to learn.:yuk:

[stealthone]

So, what is the scheduled delivery date for aircraft No5?

[330_Flyer]

404, all due respect intended I believe the notice for resignation has no bearing on this matter.

Employer is aware that a full time flying position is being sought, and furthermore the company was supportive of him seeking this position.
On AL and sought employers OK before accepting the position.
Company isn't left in the lurch as there is another pilot to do the required flying.
Swift6 will be going in after his training, on his OWN TIME, to complete the tasks he was working on.Sounds to me like a very healthy working relationship for all parties. I certainly don't get the impression that anybody is upset or feels as though the wrong thing has been done by them, especially considering Swift6 will be going in and completing any loose ends (Seriously, how often does that happen).

My 2 cents.

[404 Titan]

330_Flyer

If you haven’t figured out that the point I was trying to make is a general one, then I can’t help you. I accept that Swift6’s circumstances maybe an exception but I can tell you as a former chief pilot, pilots trying to leave without giving their contractually required one months notice wasn’t unusual. Some places now require three months. If people don’t lift their game this type of notice will become normal in the industry. Have a look at your current contract and work out how much it will cost you if you left without giving the required notice. Now work it out if you had to give three months notice.

It doesn’t help the industry when some companies are encouraging pilots to break their current contract.

[Snatch]

Thanks 404, I'll keep it in mind.

Maybe aged 42 you've got it all sorted out and an answer for everyone's problems? :hmm:

Face it - you made an assumption about the circumstances and held forth with your sermon only to find that the actual situation is completely different. You made a **** of yourself and now you feel you have to defend it instead of letting it go.

Deep breath mate, go and take the dog for a walk. ;)

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday UAL Furlough.

Great news about the command upgrade. When do you start? :ok:

[UAL Furlough]

Thanks Krusty,

I start May 4th.

404 Titan,,,for your information I didn't come back to Australia for the end of my career. As you might deduce from my handle, I am a furloughed employee of United Airlines, a 24 year veteran of the United States Marine Corps and a man who married an Australian. After my furlough I gave into the wife and moved to Australia. I have been extremely lucky...got a management job with Qantas as soon as I got here, moved onto Jetstar as an A-320 F/O, A-330 F/O and A-320 Captain. Jetstar didn't really fit my lifestyle and I jumped at the opportunity to move to Vaustralia as a B777 F/O. Now moving on to B-777 Captain. The job here is much better than the Jetstar job and the working conditions and pay are comparable. In the meantime, I became an Australian citizen and I love my new country.

I am just trying to figure out why you want to continue to condemn Vaustralia HR when 3 of the people directly involved in the situation have given you the facts about what happened. It was the PILOT's fault that Vaustralia was in this situation, not Vaustralia HR's fault. Do you not look at the facts or do you just like bitching.

I really am glad that you are not here. We have a great group of guys who love the job, conditions will get better (BTW, conditions have been great so far, what a fantastic job!!).

What are you looking for here????

[adsyj]

That would be Game, Set and Match UALFurlough.

Congrats on the upgrade and becoming an Aussie.

Was lucky to catch up with a VAUS crew on a recent layover in LA, we had a nice dinner and a couple of beers, our skipper was mates with one of the VAUS skips and one thing is for sure all the T & C bull**** aside its always good to share a beer and a feed when a long way from home with a good bunch of blokes and a couple of very attractive V Girls :ok:

[neville_nobody]

What are you looking for here????

Unfortunately Aviation is a very tough industry and I have found over the years people are really bitchy about who gets what job and why.....usually try to find some inside gossip as to why a particular person got a job...it's BS and it is very prevalent in the Aviation industry unfortunately. Many people need to move on and get over, IMHO.

[404 Titan]

UAL Furlough

I am the first to admit when I am wrong and in this case I was wrong about you. Please accept my apology. My biff isn’t with Vaus as such it is with HR departments in general and how they operate. It’s a long story which really needs another thread to do it justice.

You certainly have an impressive resume. I guess we have both made assumptions about each other we probably shouldn’t have. I left Australia ten years ago to work in Asia and in that time it has saddened me greatly to see what has happened to the pilot profession in my country. Don’t get me wrong it is happening everywhere but Australia with New Zealand certainly seems to be leading the downward slide, particularly in this region. We are unfortunately our own worst enemy.

Again please accept my apology. Good luck with your command. By the sounds of it you deserve it.:ok:

[UAL Furlough]

404 Titan,

Apology accepted.

I understand where you are coming from, but in this particular case Vaustralia HR was not at fault.

Take care.

[pettycoat pilot]

Nice one Bill! You did condem JS HR when we met though, so ....... People do make mistakes but HR in VB/VA do think they can work outside the rules, but agree in this case only, they could be right.