BA CC have done it again

[Final 3 Greens]

Another large strike vote, 8-1 of those who voted.

The old BA company is so riddled with spanish practices that I do not believe that it can be changed in a satisfactory way. A company is not just the management, but the employees too and 8,000 voting to take IA is very unhealthy. The 'Heathrow' disease is terminal, I fear.

Needs to reduced to ashes and then a phoenix may emerge IMHO, maybe BA (2010) plc.

What I fear will happen is some unsatisfactory compromise and another unhealthy period of 'peace.' I believea credible person may have said a similar thing a while ago.

Ultimately, such an outcome will just take the company further downards.

Let me also soften my words by recognising that BA has a lot of very good employees, who are dragged down by the others.

[TightSlot]

There is a (very) active thread in the CC Forum about the BA IR dispute. It has thousands of posts and has had tens of thousands of views.

This thread in Pax/SLF can stay open provided that it contains something of actual use to Passengers. If you simply want to stamp your feet and vent, one way or another, please go elsewhere (not CC!). This is not intended to as brutal as it appears - I'm sorry, but we just don't need yet another 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' thread running

[Fargoo]

Let me also soften my words by recognising that BA has a lot of very good employees, who are dragged down by the others.

Answered my question nicely , thanks for the support :ok:

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Dinosaurs/Evolution?
Turkeys/Christmas?
Lemmings/Cliffs?

Don't tar all BA CC with the same brush. It's a massively complex outfit with legacy agreements for BOAC and BEA, and a staffing arrangement that defies common sense. But that's the way it is.

With respect to TightSlot [who must have worn-out fingers by now!] I would try to summarise for the SLF who haven't been following the mega-pages.

Unite has a strike vote, BA has plans in place. I'm infinitely less worried about making my pre-booked Long-Haul flight in April than I was.

Lets not try to have another thread discussing this, eh? We will fly.

[raffele]

Dinosaurs/Evolution?
Turkeys/Christmas?
Lemmings/Cliffs?

Don't tar all BA CC with the same brush. It's a massively complex outfit with legacy agreements for BOAC and BEA, and a staffing arrangement that defies common sense. But that's the way it is.

With respect to TightSlot [who must have worn-out fingers by now!] I would try to summarise for the SLF who haven't been following the mega-pages.

Unite has a strike vote, BA has plans in place. I'm infinitely less worried about making my pre-booked Long-Haul flight in April than I was.

Lets not try to have another thread discussing this, eh? We will fly.

Exactly. Which is why I went ahead and booked my summer holiday a couple weeks ago. I somehow doubt the effect to us mere pax will be anywhere near as devastating as the unions like to make out. And if they try to disrupt our jollys again boy will they hear about it from us!

[Final 3 Greens]

But that's the way it is.

That's my point exactly and having worked in the company for nearly a year, I know the history pretty well.

I do not think this is sustainable any longer and it needs to die and be reborn in a new shape or be replaced, since it appears beyond the capacity of management to change the existing company.

Good luck with your flight, I hope your travel is not disrupted.

[Final 3 Greens]

If you simply want to stamp your feet aand vent, one way or another, please go elsewhere (not CC!).

Not stamping and venting, but postulating about the future of a major carrier.

To a frequent traveller, this is an interesting subject which has an impact on our daily lives.

I have not felt able to book with BA for some months now, due to the uncertainty of the IR.

Although there are plenty of alternatives, it would be much better to have a well managed company providing reliable services, thus creating competition and broadening the choices.

That's my angle on this.

[PeterI]

While it's probably too early to say, I'd like to know what the likely effects are going to be on flights out of LGW. The CC forum thread gives the impression that plans are for a long haul service out of LHR but little else.

This is purely for personal reasons as I've got bookings to go to the caribbean, but I'm wondering if I should look at booking alternatives instead as a fallback.

I suspect this is a little too early to be asking but does anyone have a feel for how likely a complete shutdown of services from LGW is?

[Final 3 Greens]

PeterI

I don't know if Jetset Lady is on the forum, but she would be able to give you a better view than me.

Traditionally LGW has always been a non militant and hard working base, where the crews (flight deck and cabin) pull together to deliver the bst service they can.

It may be prudent to look at fallbacks very quickly, before prices skyrocket, book a refundable ticket and then wait and see what happens.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ PeterI ... Wait another week.

Not easy, I know, but I've lived with that stress factor since this farce started. I'm booked for April.

There is so much 'information' flying around that, unless you can spend all day deciphering it, it's complete fog.

My estimation you have a 97% chance of having the flight .... when is it?

[Scumbag O'Riley]

Not easy, I know, but I've lived with that stress factor since this farce started.Why oh why oh why would you ever put yourself in a position to have an airline cause you stress? It's one airline amongst many, what are you thinking???

Digusted of Nottingham

[jetset lady]

PeterI,

I can't give you any definites but I can give you an opinion going by what's being said around the base and by drawing from past experience, if that's any help.

I am fairly certain that, as before, most cabin crew at LGW will be working. However, as our agreements allow us to work from LHR, (ironically, as previously agreed by BASSA! :rolleyes:), I suspect the company will use us, along with the LHR crew that are working, to protect the majority of the long haul at both bases, plus whatever short haul routes they can also cover. The pilots and ground staff have been trained to operate both the 777 and the airbus fleet, so can do either long or short haul, as can the cabin crew at LGW. I would guess that the frequency of routes that have multiple departures a day will possibly be reduced, with flights being combined if they are not full.

BA have also asked those of us that are willing to work to register and advise whether we can work days off, disrupted rosters etc. so they should have some idea of how many crew they have to work with, what the crew can do and what routes they can cover as a result. I can pretty much guarantee, there's some serious number crunching going on at the moment!

I'd love to say, yes you'll get away, no problem! But I can't do that. That would be unfair as none of us know for sure what will happen. The fact you are flying long haul is an advantage, but the fact you are flying from LGW could, in fact, become a disadvantage. It depends entirely on the route, the load factor and the number of crew available. Hopefully, BA will be able to advise you, one way or the other in good time. But like I say, please understand that this is solely my opinion, as a member of BA cabin crew and there are no guarantees. It will be a gamble, either way.

Reading that back, I appear to have been no help what so ever, but hopefully, having a bit more information even though it is my guesstimates, may help you make your decision.

Whatever you decide, I hope you get to the Caribbean and have a fabulous holiday. I'm just sorry that you now have to worry about how you are going to get there.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ Scumbag ... don't be wet, there's a good chap.

Why oh why oh why would you ever put yourself in a position to have an airline cause you stress? It's one airline amongst many, what are you thinking???


Only 2 decent carriers operate LHR>IAD.
I have a bucket of BA Miles.
I booked about 4 months ago.


When will I re-book with BA? I'll wait and see. My only issue with BA service quality is LH out of LHR ... which curiously seems to be the hotbed of activism. All my SH and Domestics have been superb in recent years.

@ JSL ... please worry about all of us. ALL the pax that pay the wages [and allowances]. Will you be working?

[Jarvy]

I am due to travel Bos-Lhr on March 13th, I think I can expect some disruption but as BA code share with AA am pretty sure I will get to the UK sometime. Return journey on the 24th pretty sure it will all be over by then.
As for the longer term Mrs J who is BA gold has deceided that she prefers Virgin now so we will see.

[jetset lady]

TTB,

I do. I know. I will.

Jsl

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ JSL ....

xxx

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ Jarvy ... As for the longer term Mrs J who is BA gold has deceided that she prefers Virgin now so we will see.

The same point we're at. Forget the Miles and start again with a carrier that delivers?

I want to fly BA. I want them to let me!

[PeterI]

Thanks for that, it seems fairly honest.

[JEM60]

Fingers crossed.
Booked for Sao Paulo for wife's birthday jaunt 12th March. Could have re-booked, but have kept the faith, because we like BA [travelled most Trans Atlantic airlines.]. Look forward to it, and we quite understand if you cannot offer us a full cabin service!!. If it doesn't happen, it won't be BA that lets us down, only some of the people in it.
JSL xxx from me too.

[Avman]

The pilots and ground staff have been trained to operate both the 777 and the airbus fleet

Ground staff is one thing but pilots trained to fly both Boeing and Airbus (I take it that you mean jumping from one to the other); surely not? That might be another good reason to avoid BA then!

[trinny2812]

I know there has been talk of wet-leasing on the main CC forum, and I know no-one knows much at the moment, but can anyone give some sort of speculation as to what will happen with the 747 routes?

I'm flying LAX to LHR then on to NCL on March 10th/11th and having booked prior to the ballot announcement I'm at 65000 feet and counting wondering if the flights will go ahead. I'll bring sandwiches if it means we fly!

[Final 3 Greens]

Avman

Fear not.

I understand JSL to mean pilots working as cabin crew.

[Scumbag O'Riley]

Don't think TightSlot works for BA, thought it was a charter.

I still cannot fathom why anybody would put themselves into a position of stress over this. This 'farce' (BA industrial relations) has been going on since the place was privatised and probably long before then. Periods of plenty just mean't the staff were able to be bought off, profits being distributed to them instead of the shareholders, times have changed and that isn't going happen now. This is how legacy airlines have always been run of course...

Certainly the cabin crew strike has been on the cards for the past twelve months and if you booked in that period you took your chances. I booked BA in that period and did it knowing full well I could lose that flight and it didn't cause me one bit of stress at all.

If the cabin crew 'lose' then the next group to be taken on will have to be the pilots. If the pilots 'lose' then it will be ground staff. If either groups 'win' then BA are stuffed, probably stuffed anyway.

So if you are prone to suffer stress then you really shouldn't be booking flights on BA four months in advance for the forseeable future.

[TightSlot]

Was charter - now Air New Zealand


:)

[Andy_S]

If the cabin crew 'lose' then the next group to be taken on will have to be the pilots. If the pilots 'lose' then it will be ground staff.

Unlikely. The pilots union have already agreed a cost reduction package with BA. I believe ground staff have as well.

The problem with CC is that they (or at least their union) have bitterly resisted over many years any attempt to reform the way they work. They are the last unreformed group of employees within BA and have shown no serious intent of sitting down with BA and agreeing to modernise their working practices. That's why they, specifically, and uniquely within BA need to be "taken on".

[fincastle84]

I hope that this comment will survive the mods iron fist. It is not a winge, it is a request for help & advice.

Will someone please explain to me why I should stay with BA? My wife & myself had our Christmas flights threatened by CC IA & we are now due to fly to TPA 4 March in seats booked nearly a year ago (J class upgrade with BA miles). Yet again we aren't allowed to book with another carrier without additional expense & inconvenience, not that anyone else flys direct from the UK. Do we just have to wait at the behest of those wonderfully helpful & customer focussed CC members of Bassa?

If anyone has any helpful, & polite, suggestions, they will be much appreciated.

Finally a special thanks a million to those Bassa :mad:s!

[TightSlot]

fincastle84 - You've been all over the CC forum thread like a rash for several weeks now: Please don't come in here and post all innocent, as if this is your first time and you're seeking advice - you've been happy enough to dispense it for long enough, resulting in numerous deletions and other sanctions being taken against you.

There is, at the present time, no answer to your question - you are just trolling, and we're not in the mood!

[PAXboy]

Avman
Quote: The pilots and ground staff have been trained to operate both the 777 and the airbus fleet
Ground staff is one thing but pilots trained to fly both Boeing and Airbus (I take it that you mean jumping from one to the other); surely not? That might be another good reason to avoid BA then!I think the original reference is that some ground staff and flight crew have been trained in CABIN CREW duties and on more than one type.

BA intend to use these staff to crew some flights and also to use office staff to back fill ground roles and some, presumably, also on CC duties, with suitable training.

[jetset lady]

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. F3G and PAXboy are correct. Some of our pilots and ground staff have been trained to operate as cabin crew if the threatened strike action should take place and it was to this that I was referring.

Jsl

[4t2b]

We are due to Pond Hop on the 2nd Mar from Scotland. I have elected to fly down earlier (28th) in the hope that the long haul will go, however it has cost ; over £100 (taxes and hotels).

Anything else I can do to help my chances of getting to the US ??

Cy

[Flapping_Madly]

Once BA had a LO-CO called GO. If they had let it grow and grow it could have taken the place of BA which could have just withered away. Then they could have re-named GO as---let's see--I know BA !!

Seriously why don't they do it again ? Side step all their problems.:confused:

[fincastle84]

You'll be fine on the 2nd March. The strike hasn't yet been called & when called Bassa have to give 7 days notice. e.g. If they call the strike on 25 Feb at their meeting then the earliest day the strike can commence is either 3 or 4 March.

[JEM60]

Today is the day of decision, I believe. Due to go to Brazil on the 13th March. I won't post on CC website, but if any BA CC who voted for strike,then please read these few facts.
1.Strike will drive customers away.2. You will then have overcapacity in aircraft and staff.3.Costs outweigh income.4.Airline goes bust.5.You don't have a CC job anymore.5.You don't have ANY job anymore.6. You will have the satisfaction that you brought it on yourselves!!.7.WAKE UP!!!

[Evanelpus]

I know someone who flew BA on the day of the hearing in court about the legitimacy of a strike.

Two short haul routes were she encountered the kind of service BA wouldn't want to put their name to.

I was once a proud gold card holder but saw the winds of change a long, long time ago and switched carriers. Let the CC strike, let's face it, it is the right of every union card holder to do so. When the airline goes down the pan as a result of it, will they feel they have made their point?

[JEM60]

If I could have switched carriers, I probably would have done [with great reluctance]. Always been satisfied with long haul. However, am picking up a cruise, and therefore didn't have a choice. Fingers crossed!!.

[Final 3 Greens]

Always been satisfied with long haul

Me too, I always feel that BA's heart is in long haul, whereas there is an ambivalence around short haul.

On long haul, the service is always acceptable and often much better than that.

I find that some other carriers have better product and sometimes service, but BA is a safe choice (apart from strikes.)

Short haul seems subject to being dumped at the first sign of disruption and the Club Eiurope business class is mediocre compared to others, e.g. Air Malta.

Flew BA from RUH to LHR yesterday, a very good trip with great service and KM from LHR to home - juice before take off, 2 sets of hot towels, aperitif service, decent hot meal, full open bar service, regular top ups for everyone and generally attentive crew.

[fincastle84]

No date has been announced for the commencement of a strike. The Kempton meeting is now finished. Talks will continue between Unite & BA.

Common sense seems to be breaking out.:ok:

[4t2b]

Thank you for that, as there seemed some confusion last week just when they could legitimately strike rather than risk it I re booked the Edin leg down.

Cy:ok:

[fincastle84]

You're most welcome. I have a vested interest in this as we are slotted for LGW-TPA on March 4. I think (fingers crossed) that we'll now be ok. Don't care about coming back, that's BA's problem.

Have a good trip.:ok:

[4t2b]

We are for MIA and back three weeks later.
By your screen name we could have similar backgrounds, 4turning2burning ???

Cy

[fincastle84]

So that's what your screen name is all about.

I did a tour in Sharjah on the Mk 2.3 & then converted to Nim. I retired in '92 & finally finished with aviation last year. My flying now invloves sitting back & enjoying the bubbly served by the excellent CC!:ok:

Good luck with MIA. The last time I went thro' there I was detained because of my fingerprint! They were the rudest people I have ever met. Hence LGW-TPA.