Falklands Oil .......

[chcoffshore]

With the rig now located off the Island, who is providing helicopter support?

[HYDPUMP]

BIH, The rest of us were too expensive,

[chcoffshore]

What are they using 61's?

[T4 Risen]

S61's....... don't think they have anything else....

[HYDPUMP]

Yes S61's it is, some of the partners down there are refusing to use them because of the age and also low standard of safety fit.

[Outwest]

Yes S61's it is, some of the partners down there are refusing to use them because of the age and also low standard of safety fit.

Yes, they should go with something much newer and safer like an S92 :ugh:

[Droopystop]

Out West

You cannot be serious? S61 safer than a 92?

[Joker's Wild]

Oh this should be good!!! :E

[timex]

The way things are warming up its likely to be an Apache escorting a chinook!

[Spanish Waltzer]

Many moons ago mil crews in the FI were encouraged to purchase shares in an oil exploration company there with strong promises of great returns......are they about to become rich??!!

[Outwest]

You cannot be serious? S61 safer than a 92?

Dead serious......

Do I need to post the links on this forum to all the S92 problems?????

[mtoroshanga]

I agree, from experience a S61 has got to be the better option. S92 is going through the same convultions that the S76 went through when it first came out, and please list the safety features that the BIH S61s are lacking?

[Wizzard]

Sound like a job for the Puma, in any of it's guises:ok:

I'll go, I love penguin eggs!

[Ships Cat]

A wee bit libellous, HP. BIH have been there since '99, and know the islands well. They have a reduced equipment because it is a VFR operation.

At least the S61 is a known aircraft, the Dakota of the helicopter world.

[Attila]

As a retired S61 jock, with Falklands experience, I am inclined to agree with Ships Cat. The machine works well but does have its foibles. Don't forget that BIH have the distinct advantage of being on site in the sunny South Atlantic, which may account in some small way for them being cheaper than any other operator.
I believe that the distances involved are around the 120 nm mark, so the advantages of more sophisticated machines are nullified to a certain extent. Additionally, with Argentina rattling sabres again, what are the diversion options???

[WOP]

Wave of tension rising over Falkland resources (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/editorials/Wave+tension+rising+over+Falkland+resources/2585140/story.html) :eek:

[mtoroshanga]

Ref the S61s equipment fit, I can think of no equipment that is fitted to Bristow or CHC aircraft that is not fitted to the Falklands aircraft operated by BIH and I have recent experience with all three companies. I would caution against making silly unfounded coments, you can put peoples jobs at risk!!

[Sikorsky]

Considering the serious S-61 accidents in Greenland Air in the 60's, 70's and one in 87, I don't think any of them are safer than the other. All were caused by tecnical flaws.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Cum-on chaps......all helicopters are dangerous!!!! Otherwise we would not all be getting sooooo much money to fly em!!

[John Eacott]

Many moons ago mil crews in the FI were encouraged to purchase shares in an oil exploration company there with strong promises of great returns......are they about to become rich??!!

Depending when they bought, the share price has had its ups and downs :hmm:

The oil issue is not new, but I still firmly believe that the exploration done 6-9 months before the FI invasion was more than coincidental. The rig found substantial reserves when drilling (with Argentine workers on the rig) and then left to work with us in the Bass Strait. After the Pacific crossing we flew to take off the transit crew (including Argentinians) near Eden, NSW, on the very day of the invasion. The silence on the find at the time was more telling than if it had been well publicised.

[Myra Leese]

John

I am a little confused, the only drilling in the FI that I know about took place in 1998 by Desire Petroleum, the company who are there now. Which drilling are you referring to in 1982?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

..... The oil issue is not new, but I still firmly believe that the exploration done 6-9 months before the FI invasion was more than coincidental. The rig found substantial reserves when drilling (with Argentine workers on the rig) and then left to work with us in the Bass Strait. After the Pacific crossing we flew to take off the transit crew (including Argentinians) near Eden, NSW, on the very day of the invasion. The silence on the find at the time was more telling than if it had been well publicised......


John ..... I remember that being talked about at the time too ..... but was not sure of where the info had come from .....


We (?) were flying to the, I think "Ocean Digger" at the time ... which rig you were going to I just can't remember .... fun and games at Welshpool tho ...

Long time ago ........ ;)

[farsouth]

There may well have been oil exploration drilling operations in Argentine territorial waters just prior to the Falklands War but there was certainly not any in Falklands waters (using current UK/Falkland definitions of Territiorial waters....)

[bugdevheli]

My stepson was looking at a map of the world, and asked me how we came to own a country that was so far away from us. The only reply i could give was that we stole it years ago. Did i give him the correct answer?

[Bravo73]

Did he skip his history lessons then? :confused:

[bugdevheli]

He is only seven.

[Bravo73]

Ah. Maybe time for a history lesson then. You could show him an old atlas. One of the ones with all of the pink on it. :ok:

[John Eacott]

I am a little confused, the only drilling in the FI that I know about took place in 1998 by Desire Petroleum, the company who are there now. Which drilling are you referring to in 1982?

The rig was the Diamond M Epoch: it's far too long ago to remember the details told to me, but it was drilling between Argentina and the FI in mid to late 1981. Certainly in disputed territorial waters, and IIRC drilling for either BP or Shell. The Epoch arrived in Australian waters after completing the drill programme and transiting the South Pacific in April 1982.

[spinwing]

Mmmm ......


Arrrrr YES .... Diamond M Epoch ...... it all comes back ...... (sort off?) Ha Ha


:}

[John Eacott]

Going OT, what happened to the long haired layabout with you at Welshpool? I do remember arriving through the mist one Sunday to find him a tad discombobulated 'cos he'd told your client no-one was flying in such terrible weather ;)

Which cleared up 5 minutes later :p

[spinwing]

Mmmm ...

You mean ... "Arfur Bl....ll" with the finger nails of a fakir (might have spelt that wrong :E) ...... no idea ...

Alan Styles ... in Canada .... still flying I understand ...

All the rest ?????


:}

[Nigel Osborn]

I remember flying the 212 for Commercial Helicopters to the Diamond M from Welshpool. Also remember being called out one night to look for some one who fell from the drilling deck & disappeared, 2 hours at 50 feet produced no result sadly. Also remember when after shutting down on the rig, 1 engine wouldn't start, so the pilot flew back without pax to Welshpool on 1. CASA complained. He pointed out no one worried flying a 205 in Vietnam on 1 engine. CASA suspends license!! No sense of humour!:ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmm ....


Arrrr .... that would have been the very famous .... "Reg Trewenack sense of humour" failure ..... always showed up when somebody else was telling the jokes!


:}

[Brian Abraham]

pilot flew back without pax to Welshpool on 1
Musta been a clash of personalities going on there Nigel, or some pay back. In the same era they (him) had no problems with a 76 single engine rig take off and return to home. Sikorsky would even give approval for the procedure if asked, though not sure if it was gained in this case.

[Nigel Osborn]

Brian
I think the 76 flies better on one engine than the 212. The rig was 100 nm out to sea, so it took over 1 hour. The main problem was on getting airborne he said he was on 1 engine, not 2, & so Melbourne thought he had an engine failure & put a phase on him. He didn't know they had, so he didn't cancel it or send in a report.

Arthur joined Bristow on the North Sea & became a 10,000 hour plus co-pilot from which he retired to Perth & became a courier driver, much the same job really!

I think Alan got fired from Commercial Helicopters for letting Bill W punch him in the Wyndham pub!

Oh happy days!!:ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...


Far as I know they all went their separate ways after Comm Av ceased to trade in late ... 1985.

Alan S wet to Abu Dhabi ... then Canada,

Nick Ross as we all know went to Ch 9 Sydney and then Kerry Packer ...

Ted Munday .... ?? (back to Indonesia?).

Wally W ... freelanced in Oz ...then I believe he returned to NC USA ... now well retired.

Alain Le Lec "Pussy Cat" retired??

Neil C .... was in PNG flying Pumas for Pacific .... lost track of him ...

Dennis T ... in Abu Dhabi

Cripes ... whose missing .... Rod Brown , Hedley Thomas, Eric Wile ..... and ME! :E


Some of us were hired to fly Bell 214STs for LLoyd Helis .... until the politics of favouritism got in the way !! .... but that is another story ...... :ugh:


Yes ... Oh happy days ..... (well before CRM ... Ha ha). ;)

[Data-Lynx]

If there are only 2 S61Ns (CHC-BRINTEL) and they are based at MPA against a contract with the UK MOD, how can the Oil conglomerates service these oil rigs? Where will they base their hangarage, fuel and maintenance?

It is not just Desire Oil. Petrobras Energia SA (Brazil), Repsol-YPF (Spain) and Pan American Energy (BP Control) agreed in late 2008 to explore for and possibly produce oil in blocks in the Cuenca Malvinas (http://en.mercopress.com/2009/06/09/repsol-petrobras-and-bp-to-explore-for-oil-next-to-falklands-waters). This area is located in deep water 200 kilometers from Tierra del Fuego and south west of the current drilling in the North Falkland Basin. Falkland Oil and Gas Limited (FOGL) has FIG licences in a new, untested basin (http://www.fogl.com/operations/images/_large_H.gif)covering 33,700 sq kms south and east of the Falkland Islands. Melbourne mining group BHP Billiton is scheduled to start exploiting its licence to explore off the Falkland Islands in the next four months and has been warned by Argentina's ambassador to Australia (http://en.mercopress.com/2010/03/01/argentina-warns-bhp-billiton-about-drilling-in-falklands-waters)that it faces business sanctions if it pushes ahead with oil exploration.

As Google Earth puts the well Liz 14/19-A at about 140 miles from Stanley Airfield and around 270 miles to the nearest point of South America, what commercial helicopter can the Oilers use? Chile does not appear to have a commercial medium helo option.

[trex450]

I understand that British International have taken a third S61 to the Falklands for the current round of drilling.

[[email protected]]

Data - a 3rd S-61 arrived in Jan by boat and crews from BIH appeared shortly after - this is a separate contract from the Brintel one but sharing facilities.

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

I hope if oil is found that the UK will enter a 50/50 arrangement with Argentina because otherwise the Malvinas are likely to become the focal point of future fighting.

In life, just because you can do something does not neceesarily mean that you should. We live in a new world where interdependence is becoming stronger and to develop oil without Argentinian involvement would be a mistake and place crews at risk irrespective of which type of Sikorsky they are in.

[Tango123]

I hope if oil is found that the UK will enter a 50/50 arrangement with Argentina

maybe in Sweden, but not in this world, my friend..... ;)

[spinwing]

Mmm...

Might in fact be the only way it will work .... :hmm:

[trex450]

tell you what Yellow and Blue Baron, if your wife comes into millions, can I share her 50/50 with you. I don't like you but if I can have her body and her money you can have all the moods and demands. She might not want me but I want her best assests and I think it is the only way forward. By the way it is Falkland Islands, not Malvinas!

[heli1]

......and Will Argentina Share 50/50 The Oil Being Found In Her Territorial Waters Too.
I Think Not !

[Torquetalk]

How would you see the issue if Argentina had a territorial claim to the Shetland Islands and then started drilling for oil? Still don't think the "locals" would have any claim to the booty?

[K48]

If I am right it went like this:
A few french whalers settled on the western island, unaware of the brits at Stanley on the eastern island. The french then sold or gave "the islands" to spain... who in a treaty gave it to Argentina. (It wasn't theirs to give, the British population was apparently about 50x that of the french)
Most notably "Argentina" did not even exist at this time- they were not even a country when the British were already in the Falklands.
:ugh:

Anyway the detail is unimportant. The islands are 300miles away from them.. Can we claim France as British because they are 20 miles away? It's a nonsense

I wonder.. is Argentina's government struggling at the polls again? "Oh we can't control our economy again so lets use the one rallying call we have..."

[Tango123]

Sharing oil with Argentina will never happen.

The only reason UK went to war in 82 was because of potential oil in the waters surrounding the Falklands

[nige the learner]

Ironic that it kept Thatcher in power at the time as well. Propably just what Gordon needs. Either way, we kicked their a**e last time & we'll do it agin this time.

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

Some of the responses are a little more intense than I expected and I do not see the need to personalize the debate to include hypothetical scenarios involving my family. Nevertheless we move on.

The ISO designation for the group is 'Falkland Islands (Malvinas)' and, as such, gives credence to both names. I use Malvinas purely to reflect that the island's geographical neighbours have a political interest which, irrespective of other mattes, if ignored or mismanaged, could create an environment which in the longrun could pose a legitimate threat to helicopter crews and their passengers.

When proposing a 50/50 arrangement with Argentina this does not mean simply handing over profits but inviting Argentina to reap the rewards through participation.

Do you know the region of expenditure involved in processing crude? A new technology refinery less than USD 2-3bn is hard to find and if the production scale is significant than you can increase that figure.

The benefit of refining nearby is that you gain additional value for each barrel. In such a scenario the Argentinian government would share development costs and cooperate with British companies to participate (without restriction) on equal terms.

This would mean that British International (and others) could establish forward operating bases on mainland Argentina and incur lower logistical expenditure by using commercial transport networks to feed their supply via the mainland.

It would also drive additional commercial fixed wing traffic to the islands and stimulate the local economy more effectively.

Last but not least it would create political stability in the region and the British/Argentinian cooperation could lead to backflow opportunities whereby British organizations (including helicopter operators) could find contracts on mainland Argentina - perhaps as a resullt of demonstrating at close range (as part of a working team) just how efficient you are!

But, I am willing to accept that all this may be considered as progressive thinking and not at all the 'cup of tea' the British want.

[Clever Richard]

Apparently the comments on this thread regarding FI oil exploration in the early 80's are causing some excitement on the Desire Petroleum thread on the Interactive Investor website.
If I had any technical ability I would post a link. Perhaps somebody more computer literate could help.

Thanks.

CD

[Bravo73]

Apparently the comments on this thread regarding FI oil exploration in the early 80's are causing some excitement on the Desire Petroleum thread on the Interactive Investor website.
If I had any technical ability I would post a link. Perhaps somebody more computer literate could help.



Here you go:

DESIRE PETROLEUM Discussion DES DES.L - Interactive Investor (http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail%3Fcode%3Dcotn:DES.L%26display%3Ddiscussion)


Although I'm not sure which are the specific post(s) that you are referring to.

[Laundryboy]

Could I point anyone who is genuinely interested in what is going on in the Falkland Islands towards Falklands History (http://www.falklandshistory.org), as an awful lot of guff is being posted here.

The multi coloured swedish baron, who I think started this thread, would certainly be well advised to read it before posting further. Argentina, who constantly try to undermine all commercial activities in the Falklands, were recently involved in talks with the British Government, with a view to including them in the potential logistical bonanza - but they withdrew from the talks, because they couldn't drop their sovereignty claim. Nothing to do with forthcoming elections in Argentina of course.

A lot of British lives were lost in 1982 to maintain the sovereignty of these islands, which is why some posts are bound to be strongly worded. It is, and always has been, the will of the Falkland Islanders to remain British, but to be independent - if that makes sense. The Falkland Islands Government (which has never been recognised by Argentina) is structured in rather the same way as the Hong Kong Government used to be - with a British Governor, and locally elected Executive and Legislative Councils. The Islands are therefore totally self governing, albeit under the watchful eye of the FCO, and British Government. The right of self determination is well enshrined in UN speak, and sovereignty is not for negotiation - the fact that your neighbour has just won the lottery doesn't give you the right to claim half, or indeed all of their winnings. Argentina has never owned this place, and never will.

All the Argentines I have ever met have been very pleasant people - indeed, I bumped into about twenty of them a couple of weeks ago in Goose Green, who were lost, looking for San Carlos (I am writing this from the Falklands). It turned out they were all veterans of the 1982 war, who had come back for a look about. No animosity, all friendly and waving - its their warped and corrupt government who cause the problems here. Please, swedish baron and others, don't get sucked into the hype - its all Latino speak, they don't mean it really!

[Data-Lynx]

CD. The Investor thread is Evidence of Oil - two rigs in 81/2 (http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail/?display=discussion&code=cotn%3ADES.L&thread=6018603&it=le&action=detail&id=6021252) and their interest was in John Eacott's PPRuNe post (29) about the Diamond M Epoch (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/406349-falklands-oil-2.html#post5531549)rig.

[chcoffshore]

No i am not some swedish bloke and the reason i started this thread was because all i wanted to know is who had the contract!:ugh:

[Laundryboy]

Yes, spotted that now - he came along later. British International certainly have the first bit, but later in the year FOGL and BOS plan to bring in a drill ship to operate outside the range of the S61. Who or what services that remains to be seen.

[Clever Richard]

Bravo 73 and Data-Lynx,

Thank you for providing the links.

CD

[Data-Lynx]

CHC and No.1 Boy. I am old enough to remember long and lonely low-level flogs across a deeply grey North Sea when it was not lit up like Piccadilly Circus. You only came across the odd ship. Over the years, many rigs have appeared, you usually had somebody way above you in an airway with an ear to Guard and the CAA and others took an interest in safety.

So who gets to do that job off the 'Flak-Lands' for this singleton S-61N?

PS. No.1 Boy was old RN slang for senior of two Hong Kong LEPs who ran the laundry onboard.

[trex450]

Data-Lynx,
there is always HF and sat phones which can be used, it does not have to be just VHF. The CAA are, I am sure, heavily involved in the safety aspect as well.

[Joker's Wild]

Seems Cougar is gearing up for ops in Argentina. Exploration has already begun in the Falklands area. Do the oil companies know something we don't?

JW

[Plain Torque]

The news from the Falklands is getting very interesting particularly now that Rockhopper has increased their reserve estimates by around 50% after analyzing the Sea Lion's find. The Guardian also commented that:

"Geologists estimate that up to 60bn barrels of oil and gas equivalent could lie in the Atlantic waters, which would put the region on a par with the North Sea"

Out of interest does any of the experience hands have first hand examples of the typical time line from exploration to commercial extraction. That is if Rockhopper decide they wanted to start to extract, what's your best estimate on how long it would take before they need more than the current level of say half a dozen pilots down there to service the rigs.

Does anyone know of any helicopter companies preparing bids to service the drilling down that way or do BIH have the exclusive rights?

Obviously the Gulf of Mexico deep water drilling disaster could be influential... would the locals turn their back on the possible oil bonanza to ensure the safety of their natural environment?

PT

[Plain Torque]

Cue wind and rolling tumble weed!

Someone must have something to say on the potential of these developments or am I just getting ahead of myself? I can't help but feel that this could have a massive effect on our lives and our industry! Surely helicopter companies must be doing feasibility studies and preparing bids for servicing the platforms? Is it secret or will it take a few more years for things to start moving? They have quoted with the recent find that it is commercially viable at $50 a barrel, which means it is viable now!

Would it be fair to say that it could go 1 of 2 ways:

A) They cap the exploration drilling and leave it for 5-10 years, knowing where the oil is for the future. They have invested a lot already so would they really think about doing this?

or

B) They start extracting the oil from the recent find as soon as they can. If this happens and then it snowballs, to the point of the above prediction that there is as much oil down there as there is in the North Sea, then they will need a lot of pilots. It could mean that 10 years from now, 50% of the pilots from Europe that are reading this post will at some time in their career do a stint down in the Falklands!

Anyone else see other possible outcomes, and likely time frames? (Ignoring Argentina's influence at this stage!)

PT

[5711N0205W]

Out of interest does any of the experience hands have first hand examples of the typical time line from exploration to commercial extraction. That is if Rockhopper decide they wanted to start to extract, what's your best estimate on how long it would take before they need more than the current level of say half a dozen pilots down there to service the rigs.


If the exploration wells are capable of sustained flow rates you could move an FPSO (if one is available) on site fairly quickly provided you can secure the tanker fleet to take the product to market and put in place the supply lines to keep the operation going. You'll need a bit of time to put in the subsea manifold and associated valves, plumbing, risers and control lines. Subsequently you'll need to keep drilling going to open up the reservoir to a suitable production rate. It has been done in some areas of West Africa in not much over a year, I don't know what implications the South Atlantic sea state and currents will have on the infrastructure required.

[unstable load]

"Geologists estimate that up to 60bn barrels of oil and gas equivalent could lie in the Atlantic waters, which would put the region on a par with the North Sea"

Cue for much activity in the re-arming and training division of the Argie Military, no doubt....

[Epiphany]

And I bet they are taking a close interest in the upcoming UK defence cuts.

[Plain Torque]

Thanks 5711N0205W, I guess that means after studying the findings from the exploration, comparing notes with other drilling companies, raising investment and building the infrastructure nothing interesting will happen for us for about 5 years?

And yes the political issues are going to be interesting to say the least! Lets just hope someone doesn't decide to axe the building of the new aircraft carriers or I think we will see history repeating! We'll end up buying Hermes back from the Indians or is it still on the sand bank just outside Pompey?

[Lonewolf_50]

A simple idea on how to keep the Falklands out of Argentine hands, let the Royal Navy sub skippers loose (within a chosen maritime defensive zone) and put a staunch Air Defense package on the islands, backed up with a squadron or two/three of fighters, and a EW capability of your choice.

After enough dead sailors and soldiers, and enough planes falling from the sky, the folks in Buenos Aires will see sense.

And I sincerely hope it never comes to that.

[Vie sans frontieres]

A simple idea on how to keep the Falklands out of Argentine hands, let the Royal Navy sub skippers loose (within a chosen maritime defensive zone) and put a staunch Air Defense package on the islands, backed up with a squadron or two/three of fighters, and a EW capability of your choice. After enough dead sailors and soldiers, and enough planes falling from the sky, the folks in Buenos Aires will see sense.

:D Marvellous.

By the way, our emergency budget is next week I think. Oh, and not all nuts crack when you hit them with sledgehammers. The North Vietnamese for example.

[Lonewolf_50]

Given that Falklands is a defensive campaign, as I described it, being a response to a land grab, your referring to Vietnam is irrelevant. Likewise, you might want to read my entire post, to include the last sentence.

[squib66]

Lonewolf_50

I thought the US was in SV to defend democracy etc from a NV 'land grab'. However, I still agree Vietnam is irrelavent here - the defenders lost!

Of course we could claim Argentina has WMDs (well they did hide all those Nazi boffins post-war). Then we can get the US to invade. The costs would be offset by all the oil in Argentine waters. Isn't that the Texan approach to international relations?

BTW is 'staunch' as in the Orange Order? I didn't realise they had SAMs. Just as well because a few of them think that New York is a state that sponsored terrorism!

[trex450]

the latest!

Rockhopper declares Falklands oil discovery will be commercially viable; MercoPress (http://en.mercopress.com/2010/09/17/rockhopper-declares-falklands-oil-discovery-will-be-commercially-viable)

Rockhopper Exploration (RKH.L) said it believed its oil discovery offshore the Falklands Islands will be commercially viable. A test at the Sea Lion 1 well in the North Falkland basin produced sustained rates of over 2,000 barrels of oil per day, in line with its hopes, Rockhopper said in a statement on Friday.

[pohm1]

BBC Link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11906367)

2 December 2010 Last updated at 22:49 GMT Share this pageFacebookTwitter ShareEmail Print Falklands oil found by Desire Petroleum
A number of exploration companies are seeking oil in the Falklands Continue reading the main story
Related stories
Well failure knocks Falkland Oil
Oil company claims Falklands find
Falkland Islands: Oil or no oil?
A British exploration company says it has discovered oil off the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic - the second such find this year.

Desire Petroleum said it would carry out further tests to assess the significance of the discovery.

It said it believed further oil fields would be found in the area.

Oil exploration around the Falklands has angered Argentina, which challenges British sovereignty over the islands it calls the Malvinas.

Desire Petroleum's shares went up by 24% on the news.

Long-running dispute

Chairman of Desire Stephen Phipps called the find in the North Falkland Basin "highly encouraging."

Another British company, Rockhopper, found oil in the same area in May.

It is not clear if either find will prove commercially viable.

The resumptrion of oil exploration around the Falklands earlier this year revived the long-running dispute between Britain and Argentina over the islands.

In February Argentina announced new controls on shipping to the Falklands.

It has also raised the issue at the United Nations and rallied support for its sovereignty claim among Latin American countries.

Britain says it has no doubt about its sovereignty over the islands, where most of the population is of British descent.

The Argentine military invaded the Falklands in 1982 but was defeated by Britain in the war which followed.

P1

[Ian Corrigible]

Wonder if the CH-53's AIM-9 launch rail would fit on the 92's sponson...? :E

Continued Argentine intimidation of the Falklands (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/435532-continued-argentine-intimidation-falklands.html)

I/C

[trex450]

understand Scotia are heading south with SAR equipped Super Puma's to replace BIH

[Torcher]

CHC, (Or whoever actually owns them) has sold 2 ea AS 332-L2, formerly used in the norwegian sector of the Northsea. Both headed for the FI.

[MyTarget]

Does anyone know of any helicopter companies preparing bids to service the drilling down that way or do BIH have the exclusive rights?



This was posted in June last year.

Not much info on whose operating down there, and if there are 2 L2's going that way then they have to be register'd on somebody's books.

[jonnyloove]

Does anyone have any further info as to who is operating the 2 x L2's that has been mentioned to be in the Falklands are they their yet even..?:ok:

[inputshaft]

It's been in the industry press for a while now, so no secret.

Falkland Islands News Network - Financial Information and News (http://www.falklandnews.com/public/story.cfm?get=5907&source=3)

The CHC "sale" was probably just a transfer between divisions or re- reg.

[AlfonsoBonzo]

Since half of us Europeans are going to end up in the Falklands at one point does anyone have good ideas on what to do down there when we are not flying?

Eating penguins and drinking is a given. Any other way to kill time in Port Stanley?

[malabo]

Lots of sheep. Some get pretty good-lookin after a few beers:}

[Variable Load]

Since half of us Europeans are going to end up in the Falklands at one point

Seeing as the contract is being run from Vancouver your comment does not seem to make any sense. Are you implying that pilots employed by Scotia or HS are being used on the contract? Can you expand on your comment.....

[AlfonsoBonzo]

No that was not what I was saying.

Someone mentioned on a previous post that the Falklands were going to be the "new North Sea" and 50% of the NS pilots would eventually end up there...

Are the islands part of the UK and JAA/EASA?

P.S I like a good looking sheep after a few pints :E

[JimL]

They are not really part of the UK although they are an overseas territory (OT); they are not part of JAA/EASA and apply the Overseas Territories Aviation Regulations - an ICAO compliant set of rules.

There are few native OT licenses so most AOC holders employ pilots with validated licenses (FAA/TC/JAA/UK); the operator is responsible for ensuring that the Standards of the original State, the OT licensing regulations and the Operators Proficiency Checks are maintained.

Jim

[inputshaft]

Totally correct on JimL's part. The L2s will be Cayman Islands registered (another British OT) and the pilots are CHC Global employees who will have their FAA and TC licences validated under Cayman regulations over the next few weeks.

With the operation being under Global's care the pilots are more likely to be Canadians or Americans.

[JimL]

Now that inputshaft has confirmed that the L2s will be operated on the Cayman Island Register, operations will have to be in compliance with OTAR 119, 39, 91 and 135.

Jim

[squib66]

On the basis that the Falklands has an environment as hostile as the North Sea / Western Approaches (or worse), one assumes that operations in this British OT should be regulated to an equivalent level of safetry...

Do the OTARs really specifically cover offshore oil & gas helicopter operation in a hostile environment?

[JimL]

It really does depend upon what aspect of operations that you are referring to!

The performance regulations are not as sophisticated as they are for the North Sea but they do require the application of the Performance Classes. They don't have a system for exposure - on the other hand, they provide no alleviation from the requirement for a safe-forced-landing when operating in PC2.

As far as equipment goes, they are fully ICAO compliant (without the specific elements of JAR-OPS 3.837).

Jim

[Outwest]

With the operation being under Global's care the pilots are more likely to be Canadians or Americans.

or South Africans ;)

[Joker's Wild]

or South Africans

Was wondering when that would get mentioned. ;)

[Shell Management]

They will be operated to OGP standards though and that fills in gaps in the regulations:ok:

[malabo]

Good on him for leaving the feathered nest. FI isn't all that bad, it is a lot closer to the equator than Aberdeen. And he will be there in summer.

He seems hopeful to build hours, not easy to do there with the infrequent calls and the sub-50% dispatch reliability of the old Sea Kings. I hear CHC is covering SAR there with the L2 until something more reliable is provided by the UK.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

sub-50% dispatch reliability of the old Sea Kings


Malabo,

Just in case anyone is taken in by your post, I wonder if you could share the source of your 'stats'! And the comment about CHC providing SAR cover instead of the Sea King is hardly more accurate! Nice try though...

TOTD

[[email protected]]

I hear CHC is covering SAR there with the L2 until something more reliable is provided by the UK. ha ha ha ha ha ha! You clearly know nothing about the CHC operation down there - day VMC only, no autohover and only one pilot who has actually done SAR. Not exactly a replacement for the Sea King - and those dispatch figures are fiction.

[inputshaft]

Oh gee, here we go again.

Malabo, you're completely wrong both in your stats and assumption about CHC. Crab is closer, though, as usual, an implication creeps in that doesn't need to be there. The oil rig crew change-over in the Falklands is based on a once every 2 weeks charter flight. Hence, as many ducks as possible need to be in a row in that period. The oil company were not willing to accept even the small chance that no RAF SAR would ground the crew change flights, so they paid for a very limited SAR service to support the passenger Super Puma. It's day VMC, open water only because that's all that's needed and has been paid for. VMC works 95% of the time because of the limited approach facilities in the Falklands that limit IFR passenger flights, day and overwater are obvious.

The CHC limited offshore oil SAR service has absolutely nothing to do with the overall SAR cover for the Islands. That is provided by the RAF and the RAF only. Night medevacs or training trips to the rig are only launched if RAF cover is available - which it usually is.

Oh, "only one pilot who has actually done SAR" is, of course, Crab's code for "only one ex-RAF Sea King pilot". The rest don't count, I suppose ;)

[jonwilson]

Inputshaft, thanks for clearing that up.

I thought only the RAF pilots could do SAR! Nobody else could possibly have the skills to do it especially those civvy pilots.

[DX Wombat]

I thought only the RAF pilots could do SAR! Nobody else could possibly have the skills to do it HMS Gannet at Prestwick? Allegedly the busiest SAR base in the UK. ;)

[Heliport]

DX Wombat

You missed the point being made.

H.

[DX Wombat]

I don't think so. I'm well aware of the friendly rivalry so was just indulging in a little gentle stirring. :E
An ex-RAF person of my aquaintance was, to his eternal shame, once rescued by Gannet's Sea King a fact which he has not been allowed to forget. Besides which, ALL Military helicopter pilots do exactly the same basic training, in exactly the same place (EGOS) and in mixed groups.

[[email protected]]

Inputshaft - the term SAR is widely misused to describe the sort of operation that CHC have in the Falklands - it implies that the aircraft and crew are fully capable of all SAR operations in all weathers - that is what the RAF have there as you know.

Would you like to detail the SAR experience of the other CHC pilots there? Yes there is one ex-RAF SAR pilot which helps and they have recruited ex-RAF and RN SAR rearcrew but they do next to no training (because it is expensive) and the average sea state in the Falklands is sufficiently rough to make wet winching difficult for current and experienced crews.

The ditching in the N Sea of the super puma showed the weaknesses of SAR on the cheap (Jigsaw) as they couldn't get the job done - chances are the CHC operation will have similar problems - it is not real SAR, it is cheap compliance with regulations that have no real rigour applied in terms of proving actual capability compared to advertised capability.

[Clever Richard]

As JIGSAW was being introduced, how was the capability being brought into service described? I would put money on the fact that the PR push did not say it would take a while to get up to speed and that initially there might be some problems carrying out the first rescues. Perhaps someone could clear that one up.:ok:

[jonwilson]

Every service has it's budget and therefore price.
The Jigsaw program may not have been set up as an all singing and dancing SAR service for cost reasons. We all know that you get what you pay for in this business.
If this is the case then one cannot slate the service if they provided it within their remit albeit it may not have been enough in this instance. I am not saying this is what happened in the Bond rescue because I was not there and I do not work on the Jigsaw program.
Let's face it even the Mil SAR could be better I am sure but they work with the kit they have and within the guidelines they have.
It is harsh reality to some that every service has it's budget and it's simply not feasible to always offer the 'golden standard' every time. If we could then perhaps we would have 100 SAR aircraft based around the country.

[farsouth]

Torque of the devil and Crab - reference the sub-50% serviceability of the Sea Kings in the FI, as far as I know, one of the cabs has been unserviceable for over 6 months now, and the other has not had 100% serviceability through that period. There have been many occasions when the BIH S61 has had to provide a minimal stand-by back-up service (not by any means SAR, but at least cover to transport a casualty from a safe landing site to medical care), due to no serviceable yellow cabs.
By my reckoning that is definitely sub-50% serviceability.

And Inputshaft's post #95 certainly describes the status and purpose of CHC's cover far more accurately than Crab's description.

[inputshaft]

Crab,

I've no desire to push this much further, so I'll start by agreeing with you. We have minimal equipment and we do minimal training, by your standards. However, we produce an acceptable result within the requirements of the contract at an acceptable cost.. Why don't you get it that last bit? You are so blinded by the big SAR word that you forget that the CHC Falklands contract is a passenger carrying contract for a short term exploration rig. The hoisting requirement (there, I've stopped using the word SAR) is a small add-on to provide the required reliability to the crew change service if the RAF cannot provide the SAR cover required on the day.

Perhaps as a break in the discusson you would like to explain to me why you have had the nerve to be so pathetic that you didn't drive your kids to school in a Ferrari. I think that would have been faster than what you drove, and other people drive Ferraris, so come on, why didn't you? What's wrong with you that you didn't?

That's what you sound like on this matter.

[Geoffersincornwall]

Way back in this thread I recall pointing out that when all is said and done we will be lucky if we can afford ANY search and rescue capability.

Of course we have treaty obligations but these can often be satisfied by assets that are present even if their parlous training and equipment leaves them classified as 'second-rate'. That's what I have seen in other parts of the globe.

In a way it could be said that a sub 50% serviceability rate falls into that category.

When the money is not there to pay for a top class, even world-class service then you just have to do the best you can with what you have available. We seem to be heading in that direction. It's no fun having to accept second best but we are heading down that road and, unlike many other nations, we know what a top class operation looks and feels like so we can aspire to regain that status sometime in the future. There are plenty of other nations that would be happy just to have the right sort of assets let alone know what a 'proper' SAR outfit is all about. Then there are those with heaps of shiny helicopters with all the bells and whistles but couldn't winch a lone survivor in a calm sea.

I am confident that whatever happens our UK crews will do their best and we can all hope and pray that their best will be good enough.

G.

[inputshaft]

GinC

I'm going to jump in one last time. I'm worried that your balanced post unfortunately achieves what Crab has been attempting to do all along in this thread. Do not allow CHC's short term arrangement to support the temporary oil exploration in the Falklands - an arrangement that is only there in all its limited state, because the MOD have given the impression they cannot provide reliable maritime SAR cover -to bolster Crab's interminable need to belittle full time civil SAR in comparision to his military version.

The only reason I have got involved at all in this thread is not to justify in any way what we are doing here (frankly, what a bored 22 Sqn pilot in Devon thinks has no implication at all on our arrangement.). I am just hugely irritated that either because he simply doesn't have the experience to understand, or because he chooses deliberately to misrepresent facts, Crab is using an almost completely irrelevant example to further his "civvie companies can't do SAR" agenda.

Anyhow, I have obviously been dragged down to the level he likes to operate on, so I'm going to sign off on this particular subject.

[212man]

Would you like to detail the SAR experience of the other CHC pilots there?

As I've alluded to before, at least one of them is ex-RN, ex-HMCG (BHL) and ex-GFS.

[Geoffersincornwall]

I'm sorry you feel that I have in some way supported the notion that civvy-SAR was not up to the task. That was not my intention.

Throughout my career I have continued to come across remarkable accounts of how people were rescued by helicopter in dire circumstances. Sometimes even without a hoist.

The truth is that helicopter pilots are on the whole resourceful and adaptable professionals and when asked to help we will step up to the plate. Many SAR professionals have died on duty and we hail their commitment and hold their memory dear. Many of those that perished had the very best equipment and the very best training so we can observe that these factors do not insulate the profession completely. Similarly the lack of 'deluxe' equipment and training will not prevent those who asked to help doing their job as best they can.

We started HEMS in the UK with a beaten-up old Bo 105 with a few mods, one pilot, two paramedics and no doctor. Now look at the state of UK HEMS. One unit even has booked the new AW169 which hasn't even been built yet.

We are NOT, I suggest in the business of turning down a task just because we can't have all the latest toys and we are not allowed to play with them every day. If the guys down South have what they believe they need and have enough SAR experience elsewhere I would suggest they are up to the job.

G.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

By my reckoning that is definitely sub-50% serviceability

Farsouth,

Your facts may or may not be accurate, but the original term which I took issue with was 'dispatch reliability'. I assume (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that this term means "how many times does a Sea King manage to launch on a task". Seeing as one doesn't (usually, in the FI) need both aircraft at once for a SAROp, having only one aircraft serviceable out of two needn't drop the 'dispatch reliability' below 100%.

I can well believe that the excellent British International outfit have helped out on the inevitable occasions when neither Sea King has been available (let's face it, no individual aircraft of any type can offer 24/365 availability!), but if there have been, say, 30 SAROps in the last 12 months and the Sea King has only been able to launch on 27 of these, that's still a 90% dispatch reliability.

Anyway, let's hope that the oil workers never need the services of a rescue helicopter of any variety, and one hopes we'll hear the future of UK and FI SAR before too long...

TOTD

[SARowl]

Inputshaft,

You have to remember that Crab knows nothing other than the RAF (this is not a slight on Crab, just the truth). He has been brought up to believe that there is only one correct way of doing things and this will be paid for by the taxpayer no matter what the cost. However, in the world outside, money talks. A gold plated SAR service is unnecessary in most situations where a more cost effective 'tailored fit' will do. However, crews and equipment still have to up to the task and I agree that some questions must be asked about Jigsaw recurrency training and experience.

As an example of ex RAF officer's naivety after his appointment in a management position in a well known civilian company, he was surprised to discover that there were specific civilian SAR FTLs!

[trex450]

TofTD
anyone can manouvre stats to back up what their argument. From what I can glean there seem to fortunately be few call outs in the FI so it is possible for there to be no SAR cover for 50% of the time but if the aircraft happens to be servicable when a call comes in then that would equate to a 100% despatch rate would it not?

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Trex,

Absolutely right. Please remember though that the concept of 'dispatch reliability' was not mine! I agree that it is a dubious stat, which can be manipulated either way, and my first post simply objected to the use of questionable information to launch slurs on RAF SAR provision (as well as the idea that CHC had had to step in to provide a superior rescue capability).

TOTD

[Hummingfrog]

itk

A minor point: in contrast to your assertion that "they couldn't get the job done" JIGSAW assets did recover everyone to a place a safety within 2 hours - the "advertised capability".


Was this an ironic post?

This was a rescue in calm conditions right next to a manned rig and all that JIGSAW managed to do was recover everyone to a place of safety within TWO HOURS thank goodness it wasn't winter with a normal N Sea wind of 25 kts and 2-3m seas. I presume by JIGSAW assests you mean the ARCs (rescue craft from mother ship).

As for JIGSAW having no planned muti seat dinghy training - unbelieveable as all N sea helicopters carry 2 multi seat liferafts so what were they expecting to rescue pax from!!:ugh:

I also believe that Lossiemouth actually played a hand in this rescue!

HF

[Shell Management]

I'm told the downmanning happened as planned.

[Savoia]

Leiv Eriksson exploration rig to spud first well in Falklands tomorrow


“Yes, she’s here and getting ready for Monday. She’s a real nice state of the art baby” said the Falklands sources.

Early in the day the Buenos Aires press quoting sources at Argentina’s Defence and Foreign Affairs ministries said that the oil rig flagged in Bahamas and contracted by Borders & Southern Plc and Falkland Oil and Gas Ltd (FOGL) had been detected approaching Malvinas waters.

According to the Buenos Aires media the rig was spotted by a maritime routine flight from an Orion P3-B belonging to the Argentina Air Naval service which took pictures of the vessel while sailing 547 miles east of Comodoro Rivadavia.

So far two other oil companies have been involved in the current round of exploratory drilling in Falklands’ waters which started in 2010: Desire Petroleum and Rockhopper Exploration Plc. Between them they have drilled over twenty wells with the ‘Ocean Guardian’ exploratory rig which left for Scotland in mid January.

Falklands confirms second oil rig has reached the Islands; spudding planned for Monday (http://en.mercopress.com/2012/01/22/falklands-confirms-second-oil-rig-has-reached-the-islands-spudding-planned-for-monday)

The deep water exploration oil rig Leiv Eriksson sailed into Falkland waters last week to drill for undersea energy reserves.

The discovery of economically viable offshore oil and gas off the islands is fuelling the frenzy over the islands in Argentina.

http://www.gmc.no/getfile.php/Bilder/Produksjon/16-9_leiv_eriksson.jpg
Leiv Ericksson exploration rig has now arrived in Falklands waters


Falklands oil find successful (http://en.mercopress.com/2012/01/27/falklands-oil-industry-says-first-round-of-exploration-was-hugely-successful)