Best and worst Ag-plane awards ?

[aseanaero]

There seems to be a lot of ag pilots here so for a bit of fun and education for us non-ag blokes which agplanes you would nominate for the following categories

1. Best pilot's aircraft.

2. Best all round workhorse.

3. Best value for money.

4. Best money maker.

5. Biggest dog ever to sprout wings.

[Widewoodenwingswork]

This ought to be good. 502's, 301's, Agwagons and Pawnees would have to be pretty high up there in at least a few of those categories.

[Lodown]

Not an ag pilot, but flew a few ag planes (piston). Every one of them is a heap of fun and no one reports you for low flying. Used to love the visibility out of the things when the tail comes off the ground. Often think back that maybe I should have flown ag as a career. Nothing beats joystick and rudder and a taildragger for the fun of aviation from a pilot's perspective. Everything else pales in comparison, especially IFR on autopilot.

You should qualify the question too. A good workhorse in the flat cotton fields may not be the best for the hilly coastal areas, etc. Horses for courses.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I have heard the 1124 is good for water bombing :}

[chimbu warrior]

I'm also not an ag-pilot, but really enjoyed flying an AgCat. Really well built, yet easy to maintain, and delightful to fly.

[tinpis]

The worst

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/airtruks/ZK-BPV.jpg

The best

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn137/jskerr-photos/DSC00546-2-1-1.jpg

[aileron_69]

As Lowdown says, horses for courses, but for the tight strips and big climbs of the NZ high country the Cresco runs rings around anything else on the market. Damned expensive to buy but they chop through the work. Not so much designed for spraying although they do a good job of it all the same. Out on the rice fields of NSW though, something like a Thrush is more the go, and if you are doing the cocaine spraying for the US govt in Columbia, then you cant go past the Thrush with the armour plated cockpit!!

[205jack]

Hey Tini
What the hell is that thing? I'm guessing one of the first "Flying Fowl Roosts" (Transavia). By your responce you must have done your pennance in one before 180/185's

[EBCAU]

205jack
You are correct in guessing that the original Airtruck is the beginning of the Airtruk as manufactured in Australia. I don't think many hours were ever flown productively on the two "Bennet Airtrucks" (designed by Mr Pellarini) as they crashed in pretty short order.
Perhaps Mr Tinned Fish flew the prototypes and has his opinion firmly grounded in that experience rather than an aversion to what could be called esoteric beauty. The potential was obviously there.
Many of the ag pilots who flew the Transavia developed machines loved them. They really just got outgunned by the FU24.
There has to be a lot worse than that - anyone for a Callair?

[ozaggie]

Best.......Airtractor 402.

Worst.....Straight wing Agwagon. Dangerous in the turn.

Avoided so far.....Dromader

Liked..... Pawnee, Aghusky, and Airtruk, except for ground handling on sloping strips, when it wanted to fall over. Also liked the -34 thrush for its turning manners. OA

[aseanaero]

Airtruk, except for ground handling on sloping strips, when it wanted to fall over

That made me laugh :ok:

[ozaggie]

Happened to me once with about ten hrs on the prop. Boss not happy. Oh by the way, the short tail 301's were great turners too. Lay it over and drag it back.....

[205jack]

EBCAU
Thanks for that info.Apart from the radial it was sort of a giveaway. Probably showing my age. Yes there are a couple near me and the boys love them. Callairs. Flew with a guy a few years ago who did time in Callairs in his early days. Had some funny stories to tell. Sort of had to laugh otherwise he would have cried type stories. Nice feller

[Hasherucf]

How is this for ugly ;-)

PZL Mielec M-15 Belphegor (http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/7263.htm)

http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/7263L.jpg

[ozaggie]

Try getting that under a swer line in the middle of the night :}

[tinpis]

A gaggle of retired Snow S2Ds at rest
Lovely to fly, a bit hairy on short greasy strips cos no flaps :eek:


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/snows.jpg
http://www.aviationprints.co.nz/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=23007&g2_serialNumber=3

[BULLDOG 248]

Where have all the DH82, Wirraway and Beaver Drivers gone!!!!!!

[aseanaero]

http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/7263L.jpg

Looks like 2 birds humping in mid air ... and are those toilet bowls stuck in between the upper and lower wings ?

I reckon the '60s cartoon show "Stop the Pigeon" was a big influence on Polish aircraft designers

http://www.tvcream.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/flyingmachines.jpg

[plucka]

Most comfortable cockpit. GA 200

Most fun. G10 Thrush

Most productive. Turbine Dromader:ok:

[aseanaero]

Hi Plucka,

I didn't know a turbine Dromader existed , what engine ? Walter , Garrett or Pratt ?

[plucka]

There are a few Garretts in Australia -11's I think and two PT6-45's.
They are not as fast as the bigger Air Tractors but nothing turns or lifts like the Drom. Bloody ugly though.

YouTube - Turbine Dromader (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIy7ON4iU0s)

[aseanaero]

Great video, I love how the ag pilot got his missus to refuel the aircraft :ok:

[Super Cecil]

Just for flying a Beaver would take a lot of beating, Flitcher carries more and is faster and better off rough strips (Nearly all these days). Anything with a turbine seems to lack soul. PT6 Thrush is nicer to fly than a 502 but all things being equal (Their not I know) a radial seems to be more what flying should be to me. A turbine you turn on and off, a radial you have to coax into life somehow more organic than mechanical. An 802 can't topped for load or speed, you might go close with a turbine Drom but they aren't built to carry that much or go that fast, hence the problems.

[TAU MATAMATA]

Nobody mentioned the Cropmaster. It was a nice aircraft, particularly for spraying.

[plucka]

"802 can't topped for load or speed, you might go close with a turbine Drom but they aren't built to carry that much or go that fast, hence the problems."

What problems?

I agree that droms aren't built for speed but they will carry the big loads no problems, even with the 800+ gallon hoppers.

I wish I was around in the day to fly beavers, they would of been some good times.:ok:

[Super Cecil]

What problems?
Their built to carry two ton and and a workingspeed of 105 knots. They now put three ton load and work at VNE with vitually nothing done airframe wise. They have wing attach, wing carry through and rearend fuse longeron problems with turbine installations. Tailwheels need a fair bit of modding to carry the extra load as well.

[airag]

WOW an airag thread....

OK first I think most are pretty good at what they were designed for , turbine Drom' classic case in point of trying to make a silk purse from sowes ear. (Just don't ask the owners, ask the pilots who drive em... yeah I know controversial etc.).

C.180 excellent ute
Pawnee a great little spreading aircraft , safe , climbs( small) hills ok but not a good sprayer.
Agwagon good sprayer not so good in the hills!
G10 Thrush fast sprayer, narrower swath than AT502 and doesn't get off the ground as well either.
AT 301 great radial but struggles with full can over 40 degrees however with metal tail and servos on all three axis it's a beautiful aircraft to fly and go to work in.
Radial thrush doesn't even compare!
AT 401 gets off ground better however extra wingspan knocks off a couple of knots , doesn't roll quite as well as 301 for same reason.
As mentioned earlier AT402 is a sports car.
AT502 my overall favourite , not quite as chuckable as 301 but still a delight to fly , with -34 has sufficient power for everything , carries full can/fuel all day and night , reliable etc etc
AT602 a weapon
Haven't flown 802 but all who do say the size and weight takes away alot of the fun.

Re Air Tractors vs Thrushes it's a Ford/Holden thing simple as that

[Super Cecil]

Haven't flown 802 but all who do say the size and weight takes away alot of the fun.
Not all, I think they feel much like a 502.

[Aerodynamisist]

As a marker in my mis spent youth, I always liked the Pawnee brave, the io720 had a beautiful rumble and the blue flames shooting out the exhaust at night were awesome sight.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Slight drift but is there anywhere in VIC or NSW where one could have a sit in a back seat during a sortie (or just a jollie)? Always wanted to try AG but the lady friend said:=

[Super Cecil]

Winter time in northern NSW you would get a seat for a few loads, those super (Fertiliser) blokes seem a more obliging, temperate and considerate human beings :8

[Trev007]

the AT 802 is the best ag aircraft for work capacity in the world
Fast, good swath, turns well and carries 3 tonne all day every day
Have not flown a dro and happy to keep it that way

[aileron_69]

the AT 802 is the best ag aircraft for work capacity in the world

The 802 is undeniably an awesome machine and no doubt a fantastic performer but try putting it into a narrow, steep strip thats 250-300m long on the side of a hill and flying it in the mountains of NZ and you would undoubtably be cursing it would be my guess.

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/blokedownunder/JOHNABELENE.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/blokedownunder/HUNTERVALLEYTHENECKs.jpg

[Super Cecil]

Horses for courses.

[aseanaero]

What ag-work requires you to fly out of a strip located on a mountain peak ?

[zk-eml]

Where down south are those strips?

[Fark'n'ell]

Aseanaero

What ag-work requires you to fly out of a strip located on a mountain peak ?

Spreading fertilser on high country farms.
Not a mountain peak by the way,just a hill among the mountains.:ok:

[aileron_69]

The first strip is at the end of the Hakataramea Valley, overlooking Lake Waitaki, and the second one is at the neck, between lakes Wanaka and Hawea. Those strips arent particularly high, maybe 3000ft AMSL at the most, the hills around them are far bigger. The higher up the hill you takeoff, the less climbing you have to do, so the more tons/hr you can spread. They were put in back in the days of the Fletcher, which of course isnt known for its superior climbing prowess:E

[Trev007]

thats not an airstrip its a goat track !!
Granted an 8 would be handful in and out of there best left to the fletchers

[Lineboy4life]

no mention of the mighty Cresco???

[henry crun]

Lineboy4life: How did you miss reading post #7 ?

[Graybeard]

Guess which are certified Aerial Application? (FAA part 137(?)

Yep, the Evergreen 747 tanker and the 10Tanker DC-10.

Best handling? They say the 10 is a real pilot's airplane. It can drop a swath 20M wide and over 1km long, for a total of 12,000 US gallons, and down to 170 feet agl at 140 knots. www.10Tanker.com (http://www.10Tanker.com)

The 747 hauls 23,000 US gallons. www.evergreenaviation.com (http://www.evergreenaviation.com)

GB

[aseanaero]

I think some of the most fun in ag-planes were the Americans using A-26s and TBM Avengers

[ozaggie]

Aaah yes, the days when planes and fuel cost F'all

[remoak]

Best ag aircraft? Easy. DC-3... although most of them are now cafes... in NZ anyway.

[Rarely Dble Amber]

Best Ag Aircraft for when you have some big work and some small work?.. The Air Tractor 402. Take a ride...

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[alpha tango driver]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Eagle yet???? and Where is the "Low Level Devil"
JW

[pithblot]

Rarely Dble Amber.

Thanks for that.

[tinpis]

He missed a bit.

[Lineboy4life]

If u lads were good mates you'd offer me a job doin this...

YouTube - PAC 750XL- Extreme Cropduster Cineflex Aerial Footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6j4TxfU6DU&feature=related)

just PM me when ready :}

[Lineboy4life]

I also mixed a few loads for the producer of this effort too...

YouTube - Aerial Crop Dusting - Australia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KLN5gDHzI)

enjoy...

[aseanaero]

Good videos , you can see how easy it would be to put a wing tip or undercarriage into something if you were having an off day.

Hat's off to the ag pilots

[aileron_69]

YouTube - Two Men and a Plane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUgafPphVg)
This is the Ag plane I'd take to the hills in

[aseanaero]

The night spraying video looked hairy (cotton ?) , how do they turn in pitch dark ?

[ozaggie]

If ya got no real horizon, ya dont be out there, but all ya need is starlight

[tinpis]

Ideal for the spuds or small marrijooanna patches :p

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[Lodown]

Are those Micromicronairs on that Agwagon tin? The model almost sounds like the real thing.

[HarleyD]

Ah, The A9 Callair, almost an aeroplane, nice to fly empty, but will only carry about 70% of what a Pawnee will under the same conditions. very good to crash apparently, when I flew them in the early eighties there had never been a pilot killed in one in Oz. Ground hog if overloaded, many versions of models with different wings, flaps, props etc, some even had extra seat in front of cockpit for a loader driver, stuffed if I would get in there.

The Pawnee had many iterations, some better than others, those wing tip tanks were crap on the D's?. flew them with many mods, incl huge hoppers and extended and squared wing tips, 2 seat mods (GA =good, FA=bad), and all sorts of dispersal gear including up to 10 micronairs and even the dreaded Swathmaster (dragmaster) spreaders. excellent workhorse superceded form its logical development the GA200.

AgWagon was fun to fly but they varied greatly from plane to plane in handling and performance when loaded, rigging I suppose. they did not like to turn well when loaded on a hot day, GA200 would run rings around them for load carrying and turning.

Fletcher was definately best for topdressing in the hills, off'n those little strips. 750 looks impressive, have only flown them on para ops.

Beaver the all round nicest 'gentleman's' aircraft.

Piper Brave.(any engine) ....Haaaaak.. spit.....

Ag Cat ... wire... what wire?... where did it go??, good thing for the turns otherwise you'd never see the paddock at all.

502 .Nice - my first Turbine Ag plane.

S2R - the first Ag plane I flew that I could fit my head in the exhaust pipe. it was heaven for a young bloke at the time.

The one I most wanted to try - a Bronco fitted with spray gear for ops in Colombia, They were touting for pilots when I was at the Conference in Las VEgas, but I didn't have the espagnol, mightly lucky in retrospect as the attrition was high for those pilots I was told. I saw some Black 802's in Cucuta when I passed through on the way to Maricaibo a year or so ago, so I don't exactly know where the Bronco's were sent.

Would like to hear from those with experience in Eastern Bloc aircraft as I can remember seeing pics of things like Kruks, An2's and those jet biplane things in Ag Mags in the 70's when I was driver, and I always wondered.



HD

[ozaggie]

Russian operated AN2's in the Sudan mid seventies had 2 crew, 1 to pole it around, the other to operate the spray lever and stop the pilot from defecting, although why you'd defect to Sudan is anyone's guess.....

[solowflyer]

Currently drive a Fletcher on spreading and spraying and a Pawnee on spraying. Lots of fun both of them but would rather spend a day in the fletcher stretched out than wedged into the pawnee. Fletcher not really too flash on the spraying.

[HarleyD]

I have done some spraying in a Flitcher and I recall it being more difficult to squeeze under low wires, especially those with a fence under. I used to get nervous about that nose wheel hanging down under the front.

The Pony, and the GA200 are much easier to slip under wires, the wagon has it's own issues under really low wires (power chopping at the right time works, but timing is everything). The GA200 was by far the best market garden sprayer I ever came across.

HD