Vietnam Airlines. Rishworth or Parc Aviation?

[gipsy moth]

Hi! That's basically the question, I'm thinking of applying. Some people told me that the Parc package is better but I don't see why.
Any advice from some of the guys that are in VA trough any of the brokers?

Maaaaaany thanks!

[Dream Land]

Virtually the same in my opinion, money arrives on time from both, insurance is very similar. DPI is not in the same boat.

[gipsy moth]

Many thanks? What's DPI?

[Dream Land]

There are actually four contract agencies here, Parc, Rishworth Aviation, Direct Personnel, and Euro-Pacific. RAL and Parc having the most crews here.

[DesiPilot]

what's wrong with DPI? I know they are new in game in VA but thought they were reputable company?

[PROBEUSMC]

I have been here at Vietnam Airlines for over a year. Half the pilots I started with were Parc, half were Rishworth. DPI is a newcomer here so I don't have much info.
What I can tell you is STAY AWAY FROM RISHWORTH. This was my first contract, and I didn't know any better. Rishworth has a very well deserved horrible reputation in the contract world. Some experienced contract pilots told me that as soon as I got here, and I found out why.
They are lying scumbags that provide you with little to no service on contract. I watched Parc guys have a few problems, and the next day the problem is solved. we emaii Rishworth with a problem, and it takes them 4-7 days just to return the email, let alone do anything. Rishworth just unilaterally cut our pay, without our consent or signing a new contract.
FWIW, the 320 flying here is easy, and the schedules aren't bad. My average duty day is 7 hours long. 1-2 days a week it is as short as 4. Good job. Challenging place to live, and I have been all over Asia.

[gipsy moth]

Many thanks! Quite straight answer! I'll stick to Parc then...
How many hours you fly per month apx? Many early mornings and double sectors?
Thanks again!

[PROBEUSMC]

320 pilots have averaged about 3 sectors a day since i got here over a year ago. A mix of 2, 3, and 4 sector days with 1 hour on the ground. Expats do the short haul flying so the locals can run an import-export business out of their suitcase. Average sector length is 1 hour. Maybe twice a month you'll fly over 2 hours on a flight. A lot of flights are 25-45 minutes
Hours, since I got here I've averaged 80 hours a month on a full month. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. Not real consistent actually.
They don't pay overtime, so you don't want to fly more. No layovers other than Hanoi. You average 2 nights a week in Hanoi.

Cultural problems at work? Yeah, but from what I read about Chinese and Korean jobs, it might be better here. Actually I have no complaints about the job itself. It is tough to live here in Saigon, although the same can be said of a lot of polluted overcrowded asian cities.

My biggest problem here was Rishworth. There are no repeat customers here for Rishworth. NONE. I have heard a few Parc guys say they won't fly a contract unless they are represented by Parc. I get emails from Parc about issues at Vietnam Airlines and it is night and day between them and Rishworth.

Contract wise I don'l think this would be a great one to move your family to. Schools are expensive and not subsidized by the airline, and wives don't do real well either.

If you are single, it is Disneyland.

[gliderdriver]

Any interviews any time soon on A330 FO contracts?
What is the pass rate on for the sim screening.

thank you very much in advance.

[Gas Bags]

Hands Down...Go with PARC!

[gipsy moth]

Thanks again for that acurate info! I'm getting my ATPL next month, hopefully the hiring will last a while. Good flights!

[PappyJ]

Hands Down...Go with PARC!
Maybe we need to have a look at the other 60 some pages about Vietnam Airlines that exist within this zip-code (pprune). Parc and RAL don't seem to be providing too many new pilots to VNA these days. It would appear that only Direct Personnel folks are getting in. Sure, it's political, but that's just how is goes sometimes.

Whilst it is generally agreed that Parc is the best choice, if you really want to join VNA, you may need to consider DP as the most likely immediate option.

[PappyJ]

locals can run an import-export business out of their suitcase Say it isn't so!


Cultural problems at work? Really! What problems?

It is tough to live here in Saigon You're joking, right?


If you are single, it is Disneyland It's DisneyNam regardless of whether you're single or married.


wives don't do real well I have a question. Why would you take a Sandwich to a Buffet?

[AquiElJefe]

Some fine points.

Rishworth charges you 20 to 25 USD for your monthly salary wire transfer. Parc does not. Both are on time or early with your pay. Parc always by the 25th of the month. While BUPA Gold has had a few changes through Parc. They always paid for my stuff timely even for procedures in the US. I had 100%, no co-pay or deductable world wide. Don't know that much about Rishworth medical, but before you decide get the details of their fine print.

[Gas Bags]

What about the expat driver who was run down on his motorbike (along with his girlfriend) and then beaten to a pulp (as was she).

Does that count as a cultural problem? How long was the hospitalisation?

GB

[Dream Land]

FWIW, I've heard that DPI pays on the 10th day of the month for the previous month even though they receive payment from VAC on the 24th, they also charge 25 USD for each wire transfer, no medical insurance, but personal accident and injury is included. :uhoh:

[PappyJ]

Does that count as a cultural problem?


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[Gas Bags]

Nice post...........You are good.

[flyguy70lk]

Hi, anyone on this thread actually working for VNA, what's the T&C's for 330 Capt's or TRI"s, and 330 network if possible please? I have an offer out of the blue, and need some comparative info please?!

[Soap Box Cowboy]

If you join as an F/O what are the chances of eventually moving onto another fleet or a command upgrade?

[Gas Bags]

Abosulutely................NIL

[I am here]

While I am not in Vietnam, Parc pays you by the 25th for the current month you are flying in Korea. Your contract states it is due by the end of the month. You don't have to wait until next month for your money.

[PappyJ]

If you join as an F/O what are the chances of eventually moving onto another fleet or a command upgrade?


Abosulutely................NIL

Please tell the 30 some Expat F/O's at VNA who HAVE been upgraded in the past few years that those upgrades were "Abosulutely" not possible!

[AquiElJefe]

The only caveat about upgrades I was told about is you had to finish your contract or at least your first one before an upgrade. Then you had to be there at the right place at the right time.

[PappyJ]

Finish your first contract, or at least one year of it! My god man, the audacity of some companies to require such things!

[AquiElJefe]

I didn't say finish one year, I said the first one which I meant was the first contract. If you renew as a F/O they might upgrade during that contract. I don't know. That's what I was told by Parc when I was prospecting for a job several years ago.

[Dream Land]

I believe the upgrades initially came about to help create incentive for more FO's to join, now that many upgrades have taken place, it's more about supply and demand, and the availability of TRE's.

As far as I'm aware, it has nothing to do with completing a contract, and further more, it won't be mentioned in any contract. It should also be noted that when accepting an opportunity to upgrade, you will effectively be resigning your current position, so if you fail, you will now have to attempt to re-qualify in your previous position at your own expense. :eek: One must be fully prepared.

[Adrian Cronauer]

I'm getting my ATPL next month You should be ready for that upgrade in Darwin stubbie mate. :}

[LindbergB767]

If you have to pay for it it is not an upgrade
30 ?
I am not so sure of that, the first 4 was 4 years ago then nothing for a while
Then another 3 of 4 guys from ATR to A320 and I think only 1 completed succesfully
Recently 4 convert from A320 to A330 (1 failed) and they were working in VN since a long time
By the way if you fail you have to pay again to return on your previous aircraft

[Chunks]

I've nearly got 300hrs on ATR 42 - how come VAC don't recognise 42 time? I and many of my colleagues just don't understand? Surely it can't be that different.

[Dream Land]

Lol, for ages, they've not been accepting A319 time for A320 applicants, I think that problem is fixed now. :confused:

[PappyJ]

If you have to pay for it it is not an upgrade
What would you call it?

By the way if you fail you have to pay again to return on your previous aircraft You should know if you're actually ready for the upgrade or not. If you're not really ready, or you don't fully prepare for it, then you should expect to fail.

At that point, I'd say that you'd be lucky to still have a job and should be expected to pay for wasting everyones time.

[mach 84]

there are people there thinking they are ready for an upgrade, but they are not! this statement is valid for some expats and also for some locals!

[PappyJ]

this statement is valid for some expats and also for some locals! Very true! And when those locals fail an upgrade, they are sent back to their previous positions, and sometimes, to lessor positions.

An example that comes to mind is a VN 777 F/O who tried to upgrade to Command on the Airbus. He failed and was sent to F/O on the Airbus. However, he did manage to BUY (paid for his 777 recurrency) his way back to F/O on the 777.

Seems to me that things are the "Same Same" for both locals and expats.

Hmmm, not often you'll find that in Asia!

Contrary to what a lot of you may think, Expat does not equal Expert!

[Emerald flyer]

(Firstly apologies to "Gipsy moth" for cutting in on his thread)

Quick question in a similar vein; I'm an A320 F/O (1300hrs on type) and have been applying to Vietnam Airlines with DPI however I would like to change agencies to Rishworth as my applications never get anywhere with DPI. (I'm fully aware that this may also be the case with Rishworth but that is for a seperate discussion) :)

Do I understand correctly that all I need to do is obtain a 'letter of release' from DPI in order to switch over?

If so, and this is the part that's causing me the most concern, will Vietnam Airlines look unfavourably on this action? I'd like to change agencies but certainly not at the expense of undermining my chances!:bored:

Could anyone offer any insights as to how significant an issue this really is?

Best regards,

Emerald Flyer :)

[Adrian Cronauer]

cause a ruckus before you actually get hired. yep, that'll look good on ya mate!

[Dream Land]

will Vietnam Airlines look unfavourably on this action?Emerald flyer, If Rishworth is requesting this letter of release, it is simply a courtesy between the agencies, VNA is not involved at all, I am aware of several pilots that applied at both agencies at the same time and waited for the first to call.

Good luck, D.L.

[gipsy moth]

Thanks Emerald flier! Yeah... I don't think VA has anything to say as long as you pull out of the agency you don't want before the assessment.
Actually I applied with two agencies, I'm just trying to make up my mind before I get my ATPL (soon) . Actually there is a form that we are suppose to sign stating that we are going with whatever agency only. That will be the moment, then I'll stick to the one.

[Emerald flyer]

Thanks Dream Land and Gipsy flyer. I feel more relieved now :-)

[mach 84]

there was a local 777 F/O who recently failed the upgrade to a command position on the A-330, but he did not have to pay a cent to come back to the 777. he wanted to stay on the 330 and try again for upgrade next year, but as they are short of F/O's on the 777 he was sent back - for free!

[Michi]

Hi all, just wondering what the average experience is of the joining FO's (A320 fleet). I have a current rating (recurrent 11-2009), but no actual hrs on type within the last 6 months; already one of the agencies told me -no- because of this last fact. (if I fly 1 hr on the actual bus, they would! consider me...). I have 1400hrs on the bus, 2100TT and JAA ATPL.

Appreciate any response, all the best.

Michiel

[Dream Land]

Not sure about average FO experience, it's not really an issue here, experience levels for expats range between low time CPL's and ex-US Navy test / fighter pilots.

Whatever your agency is telling now is what is currently required to get a screening, occasionally requirements change, good luck.

[ia1166]

without a shadow of a doubt PARC is the best. By far. And if you think the RAL and PARC contract are pretty much the same then you need to read it again. The detail of the insurances. Also the money. And they're much better to work for. Just ask the RAL boys about the pay cut they've just had, which has been backdated 6 months. Truly a new low in RALs attitude to it's people.

Screening has started in earnest again. They need 140 odd pilots. I believe DPI pilot contracts are cheaper as they pay less with no insurance so maybe VAC will prefer this agency...but if you apply only to PARC they will have to recruit through them eventually. If you accept the low ball salary of dpi you will be stuck with them.

By the way some of the people saying RAL are ok on this thread actually work for them so beware!

Good luck with screening. It's only 1 session now so don't F### it up!

[gipsy moth]

Many, many thanks for the specific inofo!! Some more light in the path!

[High 6]

For those in the know..... What would be the average monthly salary for A320 and A330 crews (Cpts and FO's) excluding any allowances? I appreciate that each agency would pay slightly different based on their own formulas. Also what are the tax considerations?

Thanks H6

[TopTup]

And after you do, take your "contract" to the bathroom, use it to wipe your backside as that is all it is worth and EXACTLY how Rishworth treat it. Time after time after time RAL have shown their true colors. The proof is everywhere.

I understand RAL just cut the salaries of the VAC pilots. A COMPLETE breach of contract! RAL just don't give a damn and bank (literally) on the fact that pilots will sell their soul and not stick together or defend themselves.

[ia1166]

H6

what an odd post. Are you fishing? makes me wonder who you work for.

Here's an idea. Can you all just apply to PARC and refuse to come with anyone else. That would be great.

Some of you who applied with parc were knocked back by vac only to be accepted by vac once you had applied through DPI. So you've basically accepted coming on a reduced salary and benefit package.

It's your choice.

[george111]

Im trying to get a job with VN airlines as an FO on A320. I have 3000hrs total but all on A319. VN airlines dont seem to recognise the A319 as an A320 series aircraft! The want 300hrs on 320.

Anyone else come across this problem?

[flyaway777]

George111,

Yeah i've experienced the same problem. I haven't actually applied yet but according to Parc it would be an issue. I guess the best thing to do is apply anyway and see what VN say (if you haven't done so already?)

P.S. Could it be possible that you have accumulated all that A319 time in the same place I have..... ;)

[george111]

Yeah, Im based in FCO, no A320s here.

Listen, I applied with parc and direct personnel, Direct got my application to VN 1st. Everything was looking good until VN came back with the response that A319hrs count for nothing, after reviewing my application. They must have a minimum of 300 A320hrs. This is crazy and really sucks!

What u going to do?

[jumpdrive]

TO ALL OF YOU NEW COMERS......JUST AVOID RISHWORTH
GO PARC OR ELSE.......NEVER ****ttWORTH

[luisen1984]

Hello everyone. I sent my documents a bit later... they answered the screening process for A320 FO's is completed. Does anyone have an idea when other screenings for A320 First Officers could be held?

Thanks in advance.

Luis

[Adrian Cronauer]

Open Microsoft Word. In a new ducument type the word Rishworth, then run spell check. Enough said. Go Parc or DPI.

[mach 84]

the advice to go with DPI is a no brainer! you start already with a 10% lower salary.:ok::ok::ok:

[superced]

why 10% less with DPI

on A320?

give us some details?

[mach 84]

the F/O's which started with DPI on the 777 are on a lower salary.:(

[ia1166]

DPI contracts are significantly worse than PARC. As are RAL.

Not heard much from Dreamland about this recently. Care to add you tuppence worth? or are you getting so much incoming as the ral rep that you're under the kitchen table??

Screening is going on now. 10 pilots this week that i know of. CP and FOs.

jump Drive....funny how you were so happy a few months ago. Honeymoon over is it????

[jumpdrive]

well what can i say

i guess it would be the same kinda feeling
if you find your woman with another man.........dream is over!

that chapter was suposed to be closed (as told by RAL words...on COLD) & in my opinion they ****** up big time later on

the rest of the day by day here is the same, nothing has changed, insurance works fine, etc.

and to all the guys asking why less salary on new f/o´s on DPI or RAL or any of the other agencies ....its very simple

this is a political from duc (an A.hole with a desk in hanoi who doesnt like expats)............. to impres his bosses & the ones who put him were he is

cutting expats salaries....(later on giving bonuses to the locals)........WoW

any ways thats what the agencies say it went on
theres is no paper, no fax, no memo, no Nothing prooving this ever was requested from VNA...........some 4% cut only on pilots salaries....which RAl kindly lets us to pay 1.75%. for just 6 months........what its amazing its that some guys dont seem to give a damn

there is NO...................crisis....there is NO ........ or meltdown or whatever you or they wanna call it
in fact this year alone VNA said they need for all the fleets around 140 pilots

all of this its just an isolated issue from RAL.......which is not over
there could be legal actions later............lets wait

PARC didnt cut theyre skipper´s salaries......they absorbed all


V1 ....rotate

[TopTup]

Where have I heard of, seen and read all this before.....? Airlines or agencies randomly reducing salaries, pilots not sticking together and therefore accepting this kind of treatment?

I know... ALL MY CAREER.

People do the research (so they say) yet still sign with scum like RAL. Their salary is lowered (breach of contract) yet still accept it but have the audacity to complain at the bar. What a brave and proud industry we have created for ourselves when we tolerate this rubbish, what's more, run toward it on occasion. What has happen to you at VAC and RAL has happened because you accepted it. They forced it on you it seems, yet what are you doing about it? (Sorry, thread divergence.)

And I'll guarantee I'll / we'll continue to bear witness to this as long as gravity rules the skies.

GROW SOME BALLS. Or is that asking for integrity, unity and professionalism as an airline pilot?

[ia1166]

Actually PARC refused to accept the VAC paycut as per the contract. They didn't absorb it. They refused to accept it. That is why PARC are not getting any slots.

Maybe i'm wrong,, but the senior RAL representative pilot who earns 1000 a month extra, was in the local paper 18months ago telling the press how wonderful it was here, how everyone is really happy and how all the expats earn over 10 grand a month which is wonderful. blah blah etc etc. Anyway 6 months later we're getting a pay cut. :D

I was always told to never say life is great because management will take something away. Also to never pay for a type rating or Airline training. It's probably good advice!

It doesn't help if pilots are continually taking in gifts and money to get favours from rostering. It just gives an overall impression of being over here and over paid.

You reap what you sow..

By the way, just for clarity. VAC cut your salary. not RAL. They just accepted it on your behalf.

[mach 84]

the guys on contract with euro pacific, got the pay cut straight away when it was announced, but only 2.5% less, not 4% for 6 months, now they are on normal pay again.

[TopTup]

ia1166: thanks for the more detailed info. Well written.

So, for those of you looking to work at VAC or anywhere else, who will you sign with? An agency who sells out its pilots and treats your contract like dirt, or one which stands up for you? This may mean that you cannot get a job at VAC. The cost of integrity?

Maybe Parc will suffer a short term loss of numbers at VAC, but I would hope they pick up much more in the long term when pilots are able to rely on a reputable company who will defend their rights and contracts, even when pilots will not defend their own.

I hope Parc continues this.

[PROBEUSMC]

DPI is new on the block and undercut the other agencies, starting the ball rolling down hill. I have heard that they treat their pilots well, but they pay less to get their foot in the door.
A couple of 320 FO's just screwed all the other FO's by agreeing to not only pay for their rating at double market rates (50+ thousand USD), then pay a training bond (?), but also to work for FO pay for a year (32,000 USD) less. The first two were the going rates here. The last is new, and they did it to jump to the front of the Q.
As long as pilots keep doing this, the jobs will get worse over time.
Rishworth are scumbags. DPI treats their pilots OK, but are underbidding contracts for market share. Parc is the ONLY reputable contract agency, period. Going with anyone else undercuts our careers. Avoid Rishworth like the plague.

Soon to be former Rishworth pilot.

[mach 84]

wish you good luck in changing contractor, at the moment parc seems to be a bit ahead, but once their margins get smaller they might drop you like a hot potato.
the whole thing seems to be going in a 5 year cycle, first euro pacific was best, then rishworth came as number one, by this time everyone was shouting beware of parc, spell it inverted (crap) this is what they are. now they are the good guys, lets talk in 5 years who is best...............

[PROBEUSMC]

I have heard a few bad things about Parc but not much. I am a newbie contract pilot. I have heard from highly experienced contract pilots that Rishworth has been pulling this same @#$%&* for 25 years. I have heard stories much worse than I have been living. It is enough for me. I am done with Rishworth. Overall, experienced contract pilots say nothing but good about Parc, over time. I lived in a house with 1 other Rishworth pilot and 2 Parc pilots. The difference was night and day.

Avoid Rishworth. My opinion.

[firegrass]

I agree with my Jar head friend. Rishworthless. I've been a contract pilot for 20 years and in that time RA have ALWAYS had a bad reputation. Due to a series of misfortunes and convenience I was with them for 2 years. During that time the contract was useless. Their normal reply was "Oh well, due to the GFC you're lucky to even have a job" It might have been true, but not what you really want to hear from your contractor. If you have to use them to get a job, then so be it. But please don't come back here whining about it. You have been warned!
DPI are ok. Professional and courteous. I'm actually on more more money as a wide body FO than a new hire 320 Capt. However I believe that PARC have more gut's when push comes to shove.

[Geebz]

I flew my first "contract pilot gig" back in 1999 for Parc Aviation. I personally watched my reps at Parc battle for the pilots with the airline on many, many occasions. They are very succinct and intelligent about their approach to dealing with contract issues. Of course, a lot of that was due to the rep who took care of my issues but he did tell me he got his direction from the CEO, who was adamant that they uphold the contract.


I fly for a US Major... so I can be pretty jaded and "hard to please" in the context of airline pilots (further you move up in your career, the less bs you're willing to put up with). I have flown 5 contracts since those days in 1999 and I can assure you that Parc is still the best company to work with/ for. Sure they're not perfect (who is?) but they balance the client relationship for both the pilot and airline quite well. Any agency is in a tough position these days. They have to cater to a very fickle group (pilots) all while competing aggressively for a limited amount of work out there of late. That Parc has weathered the downturn as well as they have I think speaks volumes about their business model.

I'm not working for Parc at the moment, but for me, I would always chose them over any other contract agency.

[PappyJ]

There is none better than Parc...period!

[skytrek21]

Guys....does anyone know the Sim profile for Vietnam airlines. Thanks in advance.

Regards
Sky

[Adrian Cronauer]

The sim profile has been addressed about ten thousand times in other forums matey. Don't be so phukin laxy and spend a few minutes reading what's been published to death already.

[Adrian Cronauer]

starting the ball rolling down hill

The balls been rolling downhill since they discovered that a Monkey could go into orbit! Since then, we've all been Chimps to that band of orangutans called airline managers.

[UALSIC]

Alot of yelling and Abnormal Law......in a nutshell :ugh:

[nattom]

Hi there!

Does anyone have information about Vietnam airlines simulator check?
(ATR FO)

I´m going to have one in a week and would like to know what to focus on, what do they expect, etc...

Any information will help.

Thx a lot.

[PROBEUSMC]

I don't know that there is a standard profile. Depends on the TRE probably. Mine? The SIM was brand new and the TRE didn't know how to run the panel. We flew 4 hours with no box, no FMA's no autopilot or AT. Hand flown raw data mostly single engine. Absolute chaos but at least ours TRE was not a screamer. Second day the TRE had some instruction and it went smoother. God only knows what you'll get, but good luck to you.

Not much help I guess. Most of the TRE's are good guys, even most of the locals.

[Frenchymeric]

Can we expect the same on the 777 screening?!
Is there any french flying for vn?
Thx
.-)

[PROBEUSMC]

I heard from 2 recent 777 guys that their screening was very easy. I don't know if that is standard, but they seemed to think it was. There is no standard at VAC.

And yes, unfortunately there are plenty of French pilots flying here.

Actually all of them great guys, despite my previous sentence.

LOL

[Frenchymeric]

lol thx i m still waiting for a 777 f/o position with parc...if i m comin there will be one more french..sorry;)

[olepilot]

There is no standard at VAC.

How true! :)

[mach 84]

the screening is 2 hrs per candidate, so they will check if you can handle an engine failure on take off, do a single engine go around and a visual landing thereafter. the asesment is pretty straight forward, at least for the 777 candidates, however 2 were sent home during line training.
good advice is to try to get a contract with DPI, so you will get 10% less for the first year. rishworth and will give you the full money, but ask for 1.75% pay reduction for 6 month, as they do now. parc will give you the full pay but has no simulator slots for screening at the moment. if you try to be smart and change the contract company whilst you are in vietnam - forget about it.
5 years ago parc tried to get pilots to change the contract company in their favour, but vietnam airlines said that they would not accept any pilot changing the contractor. so everyone was staying where he was without changing from rishworth to parc from parc to dpi and and and...............

[Frenchymeric]

i m gonna wait for parc slot ...:O
hope i will be flying for Vna soon..
See ya :)

[flyer47]

I'm waiting for PARC too. The more of us that do, the more chance we have of VN giving them screening dates. The contract at PARC is far superior and they really look after you.

[Frenchymeric]

Hope they will get screening slots before 2011!!

[Mike Higgins]

Both are available. They need captains quite badly, so are taking the most experienced F/Os and upgrading them. Another option is to transition to the 330. They make you pay for your training. I guess this is becoming pretty common now.
Expect to wait a year or so before you get nominated for upgrade or the 330. They are pretty conservative, so want you to really understand how they do business first.
On a side issue, I put dual packages in with PARC and Rishworth. DPI wasn't here yet. PARC takes a little longer reviewing your application. Don't be a idiot like I was and accept Rishworth while waiting for PARC. Rishworth is the worst! Completely unethical. You won't get a reduced schedule like 5/3 or 4/4. They'll fight you the whole way, because it means less $$ for them!

We're now forced to take Rishworth to court for an illegal retroactive pay cut implemented in February for work performed last August through January. Nice bunch of snakes, eh?
PARC and DPI seem like great companies. This is MUCH more important than pay or benefits in the long run! You don't want to have to fight the company representing you! I'll never apply for another Rishworth contract.

[PROBEUSMC]

I believe right now VAC might not be screening anyone with PARC, as PARC is playing hardball with them. Trust me, this is a good thing, and PARC will fight to support you the same way once on contract .

Most of the new pilots are coming here with DPI. DPI seems to treat their pilots well, but got their foot in the door at VAC by underbidding the contract, resulting in lower pay and benefits for new pilots.

If you can wait a few months, I would wait for Parc. If pilots hold off, and don't go with DPI, VAC will be forced to give in to Parc.

Avoid Rishworth at all costs. They will lie to you from the recruitment process, to the day you leave the contract. Absolute scum. They have been scum for 25 years, I failed to do my due diligence on them and signed with them 18 months ago. I just corrected that mistake.

Good luck to all

[Fubaliera]

Anybody have anyinfo on latest screenings from this month.

[SeaCow54]

Are there any A320 First Officers who have recently started with VAC through DPI? I have a couple of questions and would appreciate if I could PM them to someone in the know.

Many thanks.

[ia1166]

PARC have slots this month. If you want to be looked after you should apply through them. They pay more, earlier 9 (2 weeks in some cases), and have much better insurance cover. And if you get in a bit of trouble here, they will support you. RAL hangs it pilots out to dry and i'm waiting to see DPIs response when their first pilot has an incident and gets grounded.

It's a no brainer.

[NVpilot]

Well for people that actually work here, they are aware that Rishworth has gone out of there way for several pilots in trouble here, maybe you weren't paying attention.

And as far as health insurance plans go, the insurance with Risworth is superior to the BUPA plan that now does not cover the first $200.00 / annum.

Maybe you are so desperate to trash RAL that you now have to make it up as you go, sad.:=

[TopTup]

NVpilot,

The ONLY way you could possibly support that scum is because you are being paid to do so. I was with them and breach after breach after breach of contract, them trying to withhold my final salary till legal representation was obtained... So, you think what RAL has done to the VAC pilots is OK?

Are you kidding? I came from a contract with RAL where the insurance package they had in place left a pilot kicked out of hospital, kicked out of the crew hotel because he was deemed unfit for duty, had to pay his own full fare ticket to get to the other side of the world (said airline refused him a seat since he was not on duty), all with a 5 inch scar still weeping from his chest from the operation the day before.

Support from RAL? "We are not a health insurance company."

RAL are SCUM. If you support a company that openly and brazenly breaches your contract by tradition and means of doing business (via an ILLEGAL pay cut at VAC as I understand from this forum) then I am sorry for you.

Pilot support and unity at is best. :ok:

[NVpilot]

I have no doubt that you are speaking the truth about the incidents that you quote, I do have a problem with people that are distorting the truth.

What I am referring to is what is happening now, I have not heard any crews here complain at all about the current health insurance at RAL or the previous company (Ace), maybe you can enlighten me.

And as far as helping pilots that are having problems, RAL has done plenty, I am not the one on this thread distorting the truth, I am simply stating the facts.

What year did this incident with the pilot getting kicked out happen?

[PROBEUSMC]

I can't complain or comment on the health insurance at RAL/Vietnam Airlines because I only used it one time, for something very minor.

Other than that? Rishworth is absolute scum. They do NOT support their pilots (my roommate almost lost 1 1/2 months pay because of a Rishworth clerical error) at all unless they have a monetary interest in doing so. If you want a different work rotation (5/3 or 4/4) they will lie, cheat, stall, before ever making the request, because their contract fee goes down if you work less. Took me 4 months of their BS JUST TO MAKE THE REQUEST. I got it 9 months later. Parc guys that asked the same month got it the next month! Rishworth pulled the same crap with everyone. Most gave up trying for a different rotation which is exactly what Rishworth was hoping for.

If you work for Rishworth, it is now a 3 way cat fight. Vietnam Airlines has their interests, you have yours, and RIshworth has theirs. I was treated quite well by Vietnam Airlines and they told they would take me back in a heartbeat after the 1 year contractual waiting period. I was only treated bad, lied to, cheated, stolen from, by the scum at Rishworth.

Parc held out, and now Vietnam Airlines is hiring with them again. Why, I don't know, maybe it is because myself and one other resigned and told VAC that we were only resigning because of Rishworth. Several Rishworth pilots have screenings set up with other airlines and will be leaving shortly, because of Rishworth, and will be telling Vietnam Airlines the same thing. Parc guys don't leave because of Parc. Just the opposite.

Their are two kinds of Rishworth pilots at Vietnam Airlines- former Rishworth pilots, and those that wish they didn't work for Rishworth. I have heard it is the same at Korean Air.
If you don't work for them now, DON'T DO IT.

[flyingdog00]

What I know is DPI's responds will be the same as usual: Shane Pollard, managing director at Direct Personnel International, said, "We're making no comment"....

The captain of the Cypriot airliner that crashed Sunday was a former East German airline pilot who worked for a Dublin, Ireland-based agency that supplies pilots to airlines, a German newspaper reported.

The Bild daily said that Hans-Juergen Merten, 58, had flown with Helios Airlines for six months before the crash but was an employee of Direct Personnel International, an agency that connects pilots and airlines.

[Airlink]

Is there any overseas Vietnamese pilot flying for Vietnam Airlines? I am one and currently flying B737NG in the US, would like obtain some info. Just curious, if they hire guys with B737 time.

Thanks.

[Lost in Saigon]

Is there any overseas Vietnamese pilot flying for Vietnam Airlines? I am one and currently flying B737NG in the US, would like obtain some info. Just curious, if they hire guys with B737 time.

Thanks.

Edited because: There are 2 "Việt Kiều" pilots working at Vietnam Airlines. (also "Người Việt Hải Ngoại" meaning Vietnamese people living outside Vietnam)

Sorry, your B737 time is no good for Vietnam Airlines. You must have a minimum of 500 hours on type (B777, A330, A320, F70, ATR-72) and be current within the last 6 months to be hired on a contract.

[PROBEUSMC]

I know 2 Viet Q that currently work for Vietnam Airlines. One is a Fokker FO from Canada, the other is an American flying the A320 FO slot. The A320 guy said he was surprised they hired him. he was Viet Q, and his family was from the south.

[cayclone]

Hello all and safe flying
any info on pay for a320/330 captains will be apriciated
Regards to all ..

[PROBEUSMC]

Want more info on Parc and Rishworth? I just received my last payment from Rishworth. They shorted me over 7000 USD. F&%$#@ing scumbags. They are hoping that I won't spend my time and money to come to NZ to fight them. They are wrong.

Never, ever work for these Scumbags.

[juzlime]

I have a question. For VAC 777 long haul ops.. how do the crew log their hrs? lets say for a four man crew with total hrs of 12:00, do you log 12:00 or juz 6:00. and how about three man ops?

[Lost in Saigon]

When I was at VAC, there were no 3 man crews. Always 2 Captain and 2 FO on long haul.

You can log the flight anyway you want but Vietnam Airlines doesn't count your time in the bunk for monthly duty hours.

That means you fly a lot during your 6 weeks on. Still better than the 320.

[PROBEUSMC]

I understand a lot (maybe most?) Asian carriers don't count all your "augmented crew" time. They also don't count deadhead time, or at least a percentage of it. You can also be given your "days off" or required "36 hours in 7 days" required rest while on a layover.

This came as quite a surprise to me. I worked in the US and deadhead time for most airlines counted 100% for pay and duty, and augmented crew flights paid 100% as well.

Even a big carrier like Korean Air does this. If I remember, deadhead time gets paid 50%, and I can't remember the penalty for augmented crew.

[goeasy]

Was trying to pm you. Are you still at VNA? Can you elaborate on why
living in HCM is challengeing? (from an old post of yours...)

Just curious. Looking around at options. PM me if preferable.

[Fliegen_Inlander]

@PROBEUSMC: Are you still there in Vietnam?? can you explain more about working with them, an about insurance issue between DPI and PARC ( I've read them both) they're all the same.

Could you pm me??

Tks

[ia1166]

PARC use BUPA for medical insurance. DPI don't. Both give accident insurance. RAl does not.

PARC pay on the 25th, RAL at the end of the month sometimes the beginning of the next month. DPI pay on the 10th. so PARC are paid 2 weeks earlier and are paid more. with the new 2 % pay rise after 3 years and 2% more after 4 years it's a lot more.

And if you get in hot water with VAC, don't expect to be paid by RAL. The few PARC pilots who have dropped themselves in it had their salaries maintained by PARC out of their own pocket. The RAL guys were not.

The list goes on and on.

PARC. Do yourself a favour.

By the way dreamland is paid extra by RAL to represent them. He's a busy boy. The PARC guy has nothing to do because we have not a lot to complain about.

[olepilot]

PARC. Do yourself a favour.

Can't agree more with ia1166. He is 100% accurate...and I speak by experiance!

[Dream Land]

Ah, so many experts, too bad they don't get the facts correct. RAL has full worldwide health coverage, except for in the USA, this includes coverage for accident and injury.

Unlike the BUPA coverage, RAL pilots are not required to pay $200 dollar excess / yearly deductible, in addition, RAL's policy covers dental and optical.

Accident and Injury (that helps supplement loss of pay), and also loss of license is available at an additional cost.

RAL salary is the same as PARC salary.

And if you get in hot water with VAC, don't expect to be paid by RALMore propaganda, this is not true, this will depend on the status from the airline.

I don't need to skew the facts to make RAL look good, not sure why others feel it is necessary. :yuk:

[TopTup]

I have worked for RAL and I was SCREWED by them. They have ZERO integrity. I know of others still being screwed. Still begging for their money, still having calls and emails unanswered.

Just use the search engine and gauge the positive comments about RAL vs the negative. Personally, I wouldn't care if they did have the same insurance as Parc, DPI, other.... even more money because at the end of the day when you NEED the support of your agency to get something as basic as your MINIMAL T's & C's of your contract honored, RAL are found wanting time and time and time again. They will sell you out and have a long history of doing so.

Didn't they just impose an ILLEGAL pay cut to their pilots, or so I read on this forum? (ie breach of contract? Aren't they being taken to court as a result?)

At the end of the day, RAL could "offer" whatever they want, but you GET is lies and deceit. Absolute SCUM. And I think you'll find the majority of comments from those with experience of RAL the same.

Good luck with your decision. Don't blame anyone but yourself if you do sign with those low life ba$tards and suffer as a result.

(Am I bitter? Hell yeah after the way they treated me. I don't work in SE Asia so can't help with the VAC stuff, sorry.)

[juzlime]

Can somebody explain what and when is CAAV validation and when is the first month's salary actually will be paid to the crew?

[Dream Land]

Can somebody explain what and when is CAAV validation and when is the first month's salary actually will be paid to the crew?

1. There are two parts to the process, you must submit your certificates and supporting data to your appropriate fleet office, then you must take a written Air Law exam, when this is completed you will receive your Vietnamese certificate.

2. When you receive your pay depends on your contract agency, your pay is predicated on the day you begin ground school, for PARC you will receive your pay (daily per diem until you are on line) about the 27th of the month, RAL on the last business day of the month, DPI not sure.

Your full salary normally begins on the fifteenth day from the beginning of ground school. Your 6/2 roster starts on the day that you are checked to the line.

Cheers, D.L.

[Slasher]

If Dreamland is who I think he is (from my Nam days with
Pacific yonks ago) then hes a bloodey genuine and very
honest bloke. He would give you the shirt of his back if you
found yourself in deep ****. And he was damn good to drink
with over at the Omni.

[juzlime]

In the offer it says you'll be paid daily usd65 for fourteen days. What happen if you don't get your validation after fourteen days? You mentioned that the salary will only be in after you're checked on line. That can take forever isnt it?

[Dream Land]

What happen if you don't get your validation after fourteen days?My apologies, you go to full salary on the fifteenth day, counting days on toward your six weeks on, two weeks off begins on the day you are line checked.

[juzlime]

Thanks alot dreamland. That's a real help. :ok:

[superced]

and Euro pacific ? they are reliable?

[PROBEUSMC]

I am a somewhat new contract pilot. I am on my (hopefully) second contract. What have I learned, as it pertains to this thread? Don't fly for Rishworth, ever or anywhere.

Most contract agencies (except) Parc have the same reputation, and that is that once you are "on contract" you get zero support. Rishworth goes one step beyond. They actively seek ways to rip you off. Avoid at all cost.

Parc is the only decent agency.

If someone knows of another, I am willing to listen

[superced]

ok any pilot at Vac with euro pacific can give me any feed back??

thanks

[busbox]

Just posting to check if any A320 F/O has been to the screening recently (May until now) and can provide feedback on the experience, I'm heading there soon.

Thanks! :ok:

[tknapp]

I worked for VNA for 17 months and was under Rishworth. I think the pay cut was jacked up and not fair but you are working for a foreign company what do you expect. Almost every airline pilot in the States took pay cuts, nothing new to this Industry. I thought other than the pay cut Rishworth did a fine job. I was able to change my schedule from 6X2,5X3 and month on month off. I thought the medical was better than I had in my home country. I would use Rishworth again if I wanted to do contract work again.

[superced]

super Mate go ahead.... they are better than Parc eheheh.....doesnt make any sense.

[Hanz Blix]

Hi all looking for some info on the VNA Rishworth ATR FO contract.

Seem to remember reading 6 months ago that pay was $6k plus housing allowance. Latest contract however is about $5.3K with no housing.
Whats the deal has it reduced recently?

[juzlime]

Anybody got an interview or a contract for B777 FO recently? How's the hiring situation for this fleet? Is it worth a try now?

[juzlime]

It seems like the forum has quiet down. Happy pilots, finally :ok:. Well that's good news. Anyway, parc and dpi are no longer advertising for FO B777. Any B777 Fo here dat I can get in contact with?

[youwantmetodowhat]

If things haven't changed they are probably all too busy to read the forums....

[Rasjr]

Well since you asked... Rishworth or Parc Aviation? Year 2015! :)

[travelexec]

Direct Personnel...

[Vspeeds]

Is Direct Personnel a good company to do business with? Anybody got a job through them?

[Yesse]

Guys, are you serious? Are you trying to apply to this company?? Doesn't matter if Rishworth or parc, the problem is the airline. There is no future here for expat pilots. Didn't you read other posts talking about this? The plan of the company is to fly the A321 fleet with only vietnamese pilots shortly. They just need the instructors to train the more than 200 local cadets they have now, but when they are released, good bye. For sure the agencies will promise you all wonderful things, buy guys, this is happening!!! Is not safe, and they just need 60 days notice to finish your contracts, without reason or explanations. YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY!! Good luck!!!

[kimono1950]

All the foreigners FOs , except a few suckers, will be fired ( furloughed ) before the end of year. In 2018 it will be the Cpts, like this, VN will be a full vietnamese airlines.

The agencies are hiding, not answering mails or call phones. Not protecting their pilots for years,it is, now, their turn to be fired by VN.

Soon ,VN will be a 4th grade airlines, with all a bunch of incompetents monkeys .