MAPA and MAS

[gerago]

Hello fellow aviators in South East Asia. I am a newbie in the aviation scene in this region. I understand that pilot unions are not allowed in Malaysia and thus MAPA was given the vital task of looking after the rights of Malaysian airline pilots. I wonder how MAPA can be expanded to include pilots from , say, AK, Firefly, Transmile, etc

How is MAPA's track record in dealing with MAS management, the Labour ministry, DCA, etc? Your insights and info would be most helpful. Thank you.

[ngapsayot]

MAPA's record in dealings with the MAS management is at best, patchy. I believe it was fairly well received in the 70's and 80's. However, most of the office bearers were coopted into management and things rapidly went downhill! Later on instead of being invited to be coopted into the management, MAPA office bearers actively use positions in MAPA as stepping stones to management positions! Sad, but if you look at Malaysian politics you will sense that MAS is a microcosm of the Malaysian political scene.

[MD330]

gerago

Well said in the nut shell. :ok:
From the seniors even in the 80's it was the same.. a show 'ego' and recognition of individuals with certain exceptions.

[Mat Sapu]

This is what I gather so far; several of the MAPA office bearers of the 70's became management pilots in the 80's. MAS was chugging along fine and MAPA and MAS enjoyed a relatively symbiotic relationship; things could have been better but no major drama. In the late 80's and early 90's, MAPA politics went pear shaped. MAPA president and VP became actively involved in management while still holding office! Wearing 2 hats at the same time! Screwing pilots under the guise of negotiating with the management. Finally, the pygmy and toadie saga..........need I say more?:ugh::ugh::{:{

[Telur Belacan]

MAPA sunk into the dumps when a certain ex-MAPA VP started his machination to set up his own empire when DFO Hassan retired. The incoming DFO lato K was an absolute dimwit and this fella decided to cream off the lot. Then when he weaseled himself into the MAPA prez post, he really set up his empire building in cohoots with the management. He really ****** the pilots, closing his eyes to blatant bypassing during PSB meetings, signing away F/O's travel privileges, sending dimwit MAPA council members to represent himself during important MAPA/management meetings when he had already had a done deal with the management ( so he could claim ignorance and escape blame for screwing the pilots ). In helping out the audit department, free junkets in travelling under the pretext of audit duties, etc. All these misdeeds became ammunitions for the camel who led the putsch in the mid 90's leading to dark days which never lifted till today!

[nasree]

Aiya, why are you guys so coy and kind? The bai lato' aka g string is the worse of the lot followed by toadie pigmy lato nababi and his sidekick nick whoselan. These are the worse of the MAPA miscreants. The useless prezidents were majic, lato tengku and kimchi azh....at least they did not stab or screw the pilots but highly useless due to ineptness. The present lot are just biding their time, mark my words.

[Langkasuka]

Not a chance, mate. TF will never allow it in AK and the rest of the other operators are probably too small to matter. And......pilots being selfish as they are, none are willing to take up the cause of the blokes in the smaller outfits. So, it's a pipe dream........

[Raj Merlion]

In the 80's when Yoga and Lek were prezs, not too bad. We had some good times, some tricky periods ( sic ) but generally no big pain. Then Lek's VP started his dirty tricks which Lek couldn't nip in the bud and Lek was dethroned. Up came Magic which got us the 1.5%+15 ringgit fiasco.............Next Lek's ex VP weaseled into Prez's position and it was a slalom down to the dumps for MAPA. The snake here..............read all about it in MH 653 hijack, need I say more?:ugh:

[bila]

Not a chance, mate. TF will never allow it in AK and the rest of the other operators are probably too small to matter. And......pilots being selfish as they are, none are willing to take up the cause of the blokes in the smaller outfits. So, it's a pipe dream........


Lankasuka
Agreed. TF will want full control of the outfit and in any case see what MAPA can do and is able to do... f..ck all ?? :ugh: All a sendiwara man.!

Safe landings and Happy CNY of the tiger!

[handsome one]

Dream on ! TF will never want a union outfit in AK,just dont complain n work hard n get paid!

[Amitabh Belacan]

Yogi & Lek basically did a decent job............Yogi probably loved the limelight; Lek tried to be politically correct most of the time but was done in by back room deals by his VP. This snake took things to a nasty diabolical level when he conned MAPA members into electing him president later with the " melayu taliban " scare; he made underhand, undercounter deals with management to the detriment of all MAS pilots all for benefit of himself and a few close cronies. It started an internal, systemic rot and decay that stinks to high heaven.

[Mat Sapu]

For MAPA to extend membership to guys in AK and other smaller outfits would require a lot of legal groundwork. The Kementerian Pengangkutan will probably have to be convinced ( or " rasuahed " ) and next you will have to deal with the ROS. Before you can come up with anything concrete, TF will have " rasuahed " and greased all the palms to kill off anything that will threaten his empire. There you have it, no way MAPA can spread its wings!

[ganga747]

Cam'on guys , is this a bhai bashing session. Enough of the bhai. Let him rest in peace. :ugh:

[mokham]

Hi guys,
I am a newbie in this forum.........one question about MAPA heircachy; are the office hoolders the first people who help establish the union? Do you have seniority with the members' rank and what are the conditions for membership? Thanks!

[inderaputra]

Hi mokham, MAPA is not a union. It's just an association among pilots within Malaysia Airlines. Most of the progenitors of the association are probably retired. The office bearers are elected from the general membership. There is no seniority per se, no official pecking order. Conditions and requirements for membership are like for any associations or societies subject to guidelines made out by the registrar of societies with the additional proviso that the intending member be from the ranks of pilots employed in MAS.

[Vel Paar]

Great idea to explore. Me thinks all malaysian pilots should have some kind of representation where we can direct our grievances as well as useful suggestions to improve the working conditions, ATC services, airport services, etc. Otherwise no one gives a hoot to our contributions. Efforts should be made to extend the reach of MAPA. Instead of an insular organisation pandering to the needs of the big boys in MAS, MAPA can seek to spread wings to AK, Transmile, Berjaya. It can be a real positive thing.

[nasrazlan]

Dream on guys, ain't gonna happen. The union thingy was mooted in the 80's, nothing happened. SB started to eavesdrop on the phone lines of council members, spooking a whole lot of fellas and the matter was never broached again. Sprouting wings and extending membership to pilots of other carriers........I doubt the management of AK, Transmile and Berjaya will give two hoots about pilot representation improving the aviation industry. Anybody talking about will be probably get a nasty call about their periuk nasi and that's it folks...................:oh:

[Mat Sapu]

ganga747.......what made you think that any thread on MAS or MAPA is a bai thrashing endeavour? Get a grip; many people want to know about MAPA; it's the only legitimate organisation representing MAS pilots. If at all anyone comes up with the misdoings of the pariah bai, so be it! It is a fact that MAPA went downhill during his tenure.

[Geragau]

Aiya, gerago, looks like you have misappropriated my name lah. Gotta eat more devil's curry to earn that, OK?

There are snippets of early and not too recent developments in MAPA hidden somewhere in Pprune archives; don't be lazy, seatrch, search, search.

Mat Sapu, very true........not only many people want to know, THEY SHOULD KNOW! Someone once wrote that MAS/MAPA are a microcosm of Malaysian society, very, very true. That is why young wannabes and uns in the Malaysian aviation industry need to be educated and enlightened. Otherwise, the way bolehland is going down the pits will be the way of MAS/MAPA.

[Teg Bahadur]

ha ha ha, geragau and gerago...gee, hard not to get confused. Besides devil's curry, how about some cincalok with portuguese fish?

gerago, do search into pprune archives. Unfortunately, flydamnit has been closed otherwise there were some info there too.

[ipohmali]

Yes indeed sad that flydamnit is no more. Well heard that unseen hands in MAS management behind the move to get flydamnit out of cyber space.

Well the present MAPA council seemed to have done a reasonably good job keeping the boys happy as they did get some relatively bigger crumbs during the last negotiations. It was a rebound after the previous lean years, so most people are not complaining as loudly as before.

[hassanasli]

In the 80's when Yoga and Lek were prezs, not too bad. We had some good times, some tricky periods ( sic ) but generally no big pain. Then Lek's VP started his dirty tricks which Lek couldn't nip in the bud and Lek was dethroned. Up came Magic which got us the 1.5%+15 ringgit fiasco.............Next Lek's ex VP weaseled into Prez's position and it was a slalom down to the dumps for MAPA. The snake here..............read all about it in MH 653 hijack, need I say more?:ugh:




Ha ha Raj, I remember flying with a skipper after that who remarked that his neigbour's Filipino maid had a bigger pay revision than that! Her basic pay was RM350 those days and based on the pressure from the maid agency his neighbour upped her pay to RM380 which was much more than 1.5%+RM15 and she got her Christmas bonus too!

Why do you think MAS is such a pathetic place, why the whole bolehland is an Asian Zimbabwe..............people accept **** that's dished out.

[bungacengkeh]

If MAS is so pathetic, please leave and save us the whining. The sandpit and kimchiland beckon........
Tony will not have much say about MAPA representing AK pilots. At best he is just a front man for the politicos laundering public money. Also what great things can MAPA do for the non MAS pilots except lead them down a garden path.

[Vel Paar]

This is something that troubles me, a couple of years ago a colleague alerted me to a post on another Pprune thread that a former MAPA president had forced the secretary to allot him a more senior membership number that was from a senior member who had let his membership lapsed. At first I thought it was just some silly allegation, but lately as I started flying the wide bodies I keep hearing it amongst the senior pilots who claimed that it was absolutely true! This is something really not right and I wonder what the ROS would have done to MAPA had this been reported.
It is amazing, why would he do that for? Did the MAPA president need to be amongst the senior members? I am sure senior MAPA members can confirm once and for all if this was the case.

[Telur Belacan]

Many suns ago, some former MAPA council members categorically confirmed that this was indeed the case. Acouple of former presidents also confirmed that this indeed happened.

As far as to whether the ROS would have taken any action against MAPA over this matter, I have no idea BUT I AM SURE HE/SHE WOULD HAVE HAD A GREAT LAUGH about how low a MAS pilot could get to! The MAPA staff must have very low opinion of MAS pilots letting the president do that. And if the management pilots or had the MAS general management known this, they certainly understood how stupid or silly MAPA was... any credibility or dignity down the jamban!:ugh::ugh::{:{

[ipohmali]

Vel & Telur,

Someone is gonna say you guys are " outing " that creepy crawley lato g string. If there was anyone capable of such low tactics to gain any " respect " or attention, it is this low life! Yep, I can categorically say that ex MAPA presidents have confirmed that this was the case.

Brown alert!! I wonder how much of the brown stuff he gulped to gain latoship. Holy crap, another brown alert...with his deep pockets and super spies investigating I gonna soil my pants.

[tarmaruddeen]

Wonder why the angst and anger at guru? You guys got the short straw od the wrong end of the stick? Were you guys at Jet in the 90s and got the rough end of the bollywood meat house?

[gerago]

The theory amongst some crew is that many might have been conned into the jet airways recruitment and lost big.............hey, it's not my theory, just what i heard. Digging into the archives for the jet recruitment in Malaysia will reveal quite some startling info.

[hassanasli]

looking through MAPA exco list, the name Sanjeet Singh Sidhu-Brar. is that ex-mapa president guru's son?

[MMBenar]

Now where did the brar come from?:E

[lembujaga]

MMB, getting on the years aren't you? Remember the Jet Airways recruitment thread? See this link :
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/281344-jet-airways-recruitment-malasia.html

and see Massenger's second post ( post # 20 ) and you will know how the brar come from:ok:

[Brianigham]

Gentlemen,

Facts not too accurate about these 2 people you are talking about.

[Mat Sapu]

Pray tell more; me also not know accurate, not too accurate or ???

[cav-not-ok]

no, Sanjeet is not his son.

[Sireh]

Good for him. It would have been brought up long ago if he had been his son!

[gerago]

OK Sireh, in deference to you and your pm I have deleted my last post. Apologies to this person Sanjeet for any unintended slight or aspersions.

[Sampan Angkasa]

Good on you. I think the apology will be welcomed. What a burden for the young chap to have such a cloud over him, sheesh!

[ganga747]

The son is a pilot in MAS. Ajit Singh
Sanjeet is his nephew
Hope this clears the air
He is now with TF outfit AAX

[lembujaga]

me thinks sangeet is son of his pet pet specialist brother in columbia asia hospital s'ban.
pariah g-string licked arse of soiled leg #2 to get into aax. soiled leg never learned, he was frequently blindsided by this deputy of his when he was mapa prez.
mapa guys look out.

[Akali Dal]

Heard recently that the Malaysian pilots association has been given union status by the government. If so congratulations to the present chairman for pulling that off.

[a345xxx]

I believe they have been given the right to negotiate as a Union for their CA (Which I believe btw is called an MOU for the lack of union status) but this was done in the 70's!!!!

[mascamel]

By Random Thoughts
MAS is about half the size of SIA or put in another way MAS has fewer aircrafts than SIA but why was aircraft maintenance so much higher than SIA? SIA uses about 3% of sales to take care the maintenance but MAS uses a whopping 11% of its sales revenue to service the aircraft.
Recently I read an article on MAS and Air Asia. HERE (http://masterwordsmith-unplugged.********.com/2011/05/tale-of-two-airlines.html) It prompted me to take a closer look at MAS from the financial angle. However instead of comparing to AirAsia I compare the financial statement of MAS with that of SIA. Why SIA and not Airasia ? The reason is AirAsia being a budget airline has a lower cost structure. Further it is always better to bench mark against a good competitor , isn't it ?
Although one would argue that it is not totally fair to compare the two airlines financial because of the different in companies size and different financial period as SIA financial year ends 31 March and MAS financial year ends 31 December. But in the absence of other info, financial statements comparison serves as a good starting point.
Now let us take a look at the two airlines' INCOME STATEMENTS.
I used exchange rate of 2.2 ringgit to 1 S$. The % shown is % to Sales of various expenses items.
MAS & SIA COMPARISON SIASIA MAS $SRM MILLION RM MILLION
YE31/3/20102.2 YE31/12/2010 Note REVENUE12,70727,955 12,980 Staff cost2,1554,74017.0%2,16416.7% Directors Remuneration5110.0%40.0% Fuel cost4,1959,22833.0%4,38433.8% Depreciation1,7143,77013.5%3732.9% Armotisation of Intangible assets43940.3%33 Aircraft maintenance3427532.7%1,46711.3%ACommision3176962.5%4873.8% Landing,parking, & overflying charges5891,2954.6%2461.9% Handling +in flight meal +crew+passenger costs1,4163,11411.1%1,38910.7% Rental of aircraft5531,2164.4%1,60712.4%BMaterial/Oth Engineering3758263.0%710.5% Adevertising & Promotion2104631.7%930.7% Computer booking system 1841.4%CInsurance581270.5%600.5% Compay accomodation / Rental1423121.1%1811.4% Other Operating Expenses5321,1704.2%5824.5% 12,64427815.92 13,324102.7% Operating Profit/(Loss)63139.480.0%(344)
DDerivative Gain 139
EFinance Expenses (net)-68.9-152 -138 Finance Income49.5109 71 Other Operating Income922020.7%5364.1%FAssociated Companies/JV149328 18 PROFIT BEFORE TAXATION285627 282
Those highlighted in color : blue and red are items that seems to be defy logic and common sense and are further explored below:
A) Aircraft maintenance
MAS is about half the size of SIA or put in another way MAS has fewer aircrafts than SIA but why was aircraft maintenance so much higher than SIA? SIA uses about 3% of sales to take care the maintenance but MAS uses a whopping 11% of its sales revenue to service the aircraft. AND not only the % to sales was high , the absolute figure was also higher than that of SIA. I could not help but guess and hopefully I am wrong that someone are getting really rich at MAS and indirectly the nation's expenses.

READ MORE HERE. (http://tongkm.********.com/2011/05/facts-abt-2-airlines.html)

[a345xxx]

MAS being used to make certain people rich! OMG! Its shocking! Wait.... its not, in fact its the way of the 1Bolehland! BTW just to add masala to the curry just go ask why they have a special adviser on top of a BOD and Chairman?

Oh yes he's got to look after his interest's and of his family!

[Telur Belacan]

Akali, you heard WRONG. Mapa is NOT a union!

[Vel Paar]

Ex-MAS boss broke the law, says Nazri (http://malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/newscommentaries/43953-ex-mas-boss-broke-the-law-says-nazri)



By Syed Jaymal Zahiid, FMT
KUALA LUMPUR: Former MAS chairman Tajuddin Ramli breached the Companies Act in not disclosing his interests when he was with the national carrier, Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Nazri Aziz told the Dewan Rakyat today.
“Evidence shows that he breached Section 131 of the Companies Act, which involves disclosure of interests,” he said in response to Lim Kit Siang (DAP-Ipoh Timur), who noted that there had been no prosecution against Tajuddin despite the reports MAS had lodged with the police and anti-graft authorities.
Lim asked if the Attorney-General had the right to absolve Tajuddin of criminal liabilities.
Nazri said Tajuddin had incurred a compound fine but the Attorney-General had delayed action on the fine because a civil suit had yet to be resolved.
“As the case involves a civil claim that has not been resolved, he asked the Attorney-General’s Chambers to delay the compound. The AG’s Chambers has granted the request.”
In August, Putrajaya directed all government-linked companies (GLCs), including MAS, to drop all civil suits against Tajuddin.

READ MORE HERE. (http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/2011/10/06/ex-mas-boss-broke-the-law-says-nazri/)

[Cote Babe]

I thought the Minister directed all the GLC's to withdraw their suits against TR some time ago. This is flip flop of some kind?

[Calvin Hops]

It is a bit disconcerting reading about the close ties of ex MAS boss with the government machinery; I hope this does not extend to legal matters when an aggrieved employee takes up an industrial case against MAS or any other Malaysian companies. I am tempted to apply for a position in either MAS or Air Asia, but some friends have cautioned me to get a clear view of the situation in Malaysia before embarking on such a " risky " venture. I would certainly appreciate if someone can enlighten me on how secure a job with MH or AK is, and what are their bonding conditions.

[Akali Dal]

Calvin, do a search using the search function...you will find heaps of info. Do not expect the selfish pricks holed up im Mas and air Asia to respond!

[jandakotcruiser]

About a decade ago there was a bitter but colourful character known as Old Ace, Old Ace 99 and Thrust Reverser who used to post fairly inflammatory but largely true stuff about going ons in MAS and MAPA. I happened to run into an old mate who used to fly for MAS for a couple of years after the '89 debacle and he reckoned that Old Ace was a certain LCL. I begged to differ and I thought it was " Ah Kai " PW. Maybe after all these years you MAS guys can settle this for us.........a great bottle of Shiraz is on..............

[Langkasuka]

(The Malaysian Insider) - The government’s confidential settlement of its claims against Tan Sri Tajudin Ramli is under renewed scrutiny after Umno Youth chief Khairy Jamaluddin claimed knowledge this week that national asset restructuring company Danaharta did not lose money in the out-of-court deal.

The DAP today demanded answers from Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak after Khairy reopened the debate on the controversial sealed settlement by claiming during a televised debate with PKR’s Rafizi Ramli that he had been told by sources that the government had not lost out in the arrangement with Tajudin.

“Datuk Seri Najib Razak must immediately confirm if indeed his Umno Youth chief is telling the truth or is lying to the public over the above scandal. This is especially since it is the first time a BN (Barisan Nasional) politician has claimed that Tan Sri Tajudin paid part or all of his outstanding debt as part of the settlement exercise,” DAP national publicity secretary Tony Pua said in a statement today.

Khairy had cited “sources” that the former Malaysia Airlines (MAS) chairman may have paid more than the RM589 million owed to Danaharta as a result of the still undisclosed out-of-court settlement.

Pua pointed out that this was despite the fact minister Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz had last year directed all government-linked companies (GLCs) including Danaharta to withdraw all civil suits against Tajudin as both the government and the Finance Ministry had agreed that the cases will be settled out of court.

“Khairy’s claim is completely unbelievable and lacks all credibility given the clandestine manner in which the government has sought to cover up the entire episode and the refusal of any minister to confirm or deny the claim that Danaharta had in fact written off all of Tajudin’s debt,” the Petaling Jaya Utara MP said.

Danaharta and Tajudin ended their drawn-out legal battle when they settled out of court on February 14 after Putrajaya had directed in August all GLCs to drop civil suits against the former protégé of Tun Daim Zainuddin.

But the terms of the settlement remain confidential between the two parties despite a High Court decision in December 2009 for Tajudin to pay Danaharta RM589.14 million with two per cent interest per annum backdated to January 1, 2006.

Politicians from across the divide have demanded details of the out-of-court settlement between the tycoon and Danaharta be made public, but the government has kept silent so far.

In March Parliament’s Public Accounts Committee (PAC) had also demanded Putrajaya reveal details of the out-of-court settlement reached between one-time national asset management firm Pengurusan Danaharta Bhd (Danaharta) and Tajudin.

The Malaysian Insider had learnt that the 13-man panel made a “nearly unanimous” decision to ask the Finance Ministry and Prokhas, its unit which manages Danaharta’s residual assets, to explain the confidential settlement that was reached on February 14.

Tajudin was a poster boy of Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s now discredited policy of nurturing a class of Malay corporate captains on government largesse. He flew high in the 1990s but fared poorly during the Asian financial crisis.

The former prime minister’s policies had been the subject of scrutiny after the Najib administration decided to settle out of court the outstanding RM589 million debt owed by Tajudin from the loan he took to buy MAS in 1994.

The case between Danaharta and the tycoon arose after he executed a facility agreement on July 13, 1994 to borrow RM1.79 billion from a group of syndicated lenders to finance the purchase by him of a 32 per cent stake in MAS.

[mokham]

This mess of MAS created during Tajuddin's time must be pursued relentlessly. A public ombudsman must be set up to continuously hound the interested parties. A lot is at stake; the crooks are forever confident they can somehow get away as the reckon Malaysians have very short memories...once this goes way from the internet media, it will be forgotten as the MSM will not touch such hot potatos. ln fact the MSM will spin in favour of the crooked parties.

[Sireh]

MAPA has never come out publicly to declare that Captain Zaharie's reputation and good name MUST NOT BE BESMIRCHED until all investigations are completed. It doesn't matter even if he isn't a member by any chance. It is utterly disgusting for MAPA to keep quiet to be in the good books of Mr pink lips!:ugh:

[Anilv]

Fence sitting at its best!

[Geragau]

The lack of conviction and camaraderie is really appalling amongst MAS pilots. The MAPA presidency has lately been occupied by yellow bellied nincompoops and brown-nosers. "Nuff said!