Air Astana contracts not worth the paper they are written on

[Angryinastana]

F:mad:k you Air Astana, thanks very much for taking away 3 days of my contracted days off, thank you for also cutting my housing allowance so now all that I can afford is a place where I can't even walk outside at night for fear of getting mugged:mad:

Anyone considering coming here on contract, think looooong and hard, the newish flight ops management team here are ex delta and appear to only be interested in screwing over pilots who are half a world away from family and loved ones.
Don't expect any support from your contract agency, they will merely pass on the unilateral change to your quality of life.
A mass exodus appears to be very very close, and with better contracts now becoming available elsewhere, particularly with those who commute, Air Astana could well find a few Airbuses parked for lack of crews.
Nice job T.N. all you need to do is show a little interest in your contractors, and get your rostering department to start thinking for once and roster us more efficiently, then you would achieve the savings (or your bonus) that you are after, and have the added bonus of retaining expensive to recruit and train pilots.
Never mind I suppose, what do you care:hmm:

[GlueBall]

Third world country. Third world airline. Third world contract. Did you expect to be working for the likes of BA and dining at Buckingham Palace? :{

[Yaw String]

Glue Ball, I think the poster is trying to bring to light an unfair situation that has evolved from some fundamental changes in Air Astana. I believe this forum serves well in exposing malpractice in some airlines, introduced by people with poor man management skills, who would be better employed serving the community, instead of selfishly thinking only of themselves..
These airlines deserve bad publicity if indeed they are shafting their employees..and there was me thinking it was an Italian phenomena "Tutto Il mondo E un Paese"!!

[On Final]

Hello,

I think many pilots have been thinking about flying for Air Astana. Lets try to get more information in details so all of us can take advantage of this information.

The worst thing in the World is when pilots make a move to a new airline around the World, spends the time, money and energy and the agents and airline allow the contract to be broken.

If pilots put the truthful word out soon the airline will have a hard time recreuiting pilots. Example. Korean Air 777 program when (6) highly qualified 777 (many check airmen) were terminated from employment while in training, Qatar Air (many issues read PPRUNE) and others Airlines along with their agents. It makes a diefference what we put here on PPRUNE...!!!

Who is your agent that is not standing behind the contract?

What are the details on the contract violations?

Is Air Astana direct entry or do they use an agent?

How about general contract information, pay, housing, days off, bonus etc?

Good Luck,

On Final

[Angryinastana]

I'm not going to go into specifics, nor am I going to expand on what I've already said.
All that I ask is that all those looking at coming here realise that the contract you sign means nothing.

[FBW390]

I think you should tell us which contractor does not back you up, this is the goal of Pprune; Yes, so we are strong. Bad airlines will have problems recruiting: example: Qatar Airways. They hate pprune because it says the truth, how bad they are;
Good to know Air Astana is:yuk: I considered a time going there on the A320; now I will avoid; But which is your contractor?
Parc? Direct? Rishworth? Tell it, they have to improve and help you!

[Angryinastana]

FBW390, either you are foolish or ignorant, 30 seconds worth of research will show you that there are several agencies that provide contract pilots here in Kazakhstan. All of them as far as I am aware have merely passed on these changes to contracts with little or no support.

[Ginetta]

Why are you surprised? Just look at what the company president did in his previous job with Royal Brunei and then left !!

[THRidle]

Hey Angryinastana, don't take it out on FBW390

You're the rocket scientist that signed in the first place !!!

[JotaJota]

So you're with DPI then? FK....

[vinayak]

well said THR Idle....

take it easy angryinastana..... a lot of people spoke a lot about indigo as well sometimes. they had acute shortage of pilots in 2008 and none of the guys could go home for christmas. very angry comments. 2009-more aircraft more flights, everyone who wanted to go home for the holidays went....


maybe a few things that can be worked out... and if there are real issues maybe you should enlighten everyone instead of calling them foolish and ignorant

[Angryinastana]

Hey Angryinastana, don't take it out on FBW390

You're the rocket scientist that signed in the first place !!!

Oh I'm sorry, I was under the misapprehension that you could actually read the thread title and the context/content of my first post:suspect:

take it easy angryinastana..... a lot of people spoke a lot about indigo as well sometimes. they had acute shortage of pilots in 2008 and none of the guys could go home for christmas. very angry comments. 2009-more aircraft more flights, everyone who wanted to go home for the holidays went....


Huh? what on EARTH has this got to do with Air Astana? yes there are a few ex indigo drivers here I'm led to believe, but so what? different companies, different countries, explain to me the relevance of your comment?

How about some you go back and actually READ what I've posted..rather than posting B1tchy comments from the sidelines...oh but I forgot, it doesn't affect you...:=

[flyingtoothpick]

Angry; If your attitude to your employer is the same as your attitude to your colleagues on this forum, I am not surprised you are having a few issues. Give specific information and you will get a sympathetic hearing. Behave like a spoiled child and expect to be treated like one.

Rocket science it is not.

[Angryinastana]

Thanks toothpick, for those sage words of advice, perhaps you would also like to read my first post?
Just having a look at it myself, there are AT LEAST 4 specific and pertinent pieces of information in that post, moreover I have also suggested that a 30 second search (it took me 15 seconds) via a well known search engine...and hey presto! there are the agencies who do all the recruitment.
I'm afraid I can't help to improve the understanding of those who are either too lazy, too stupid, or just blatantly antagonistic when it comes to giving people information about flying on contract here in Kazakhstan.
The clue is in the title of the thread for godness sake.....or is childish to think that way?

[Dream Land]

I think that anyone interested in looking at foreign contracts needs to pay heed to what GlueBall is saying.

Things are all relative.

[Fubaliera]

Gentleman , Air Astana is Direct Personnel and Sigmar.

[weedosphere]

Angryinastana (http://www.pprune.org/members/320391-angryinastana)
I don't think you have given the true picture with your post. As I understand our current contract remains as is, i.e our off days are not reduced. The reduction will only be for new contracts and contract renewals.
So if you don't want to renew on the new terms then it is your choice.
There are many of the foreign pilots who a very happy here at Air Astana, I'm not too sure that your exodus that you predict will take place. Losing 10 days out of 90 days, spread over a year is really not significant but the choice is yours.

[udachi moya]

Crikey mate - wind your neck in, if you dont like it the 901 departs back for the UK on saturday at 14:05.....

Nothing has really changed, other than a slight reduction in housing allowance, and maybe 3 odd days off out of an entire roster - nothing dire or major, certainly not life changing

If you will rent an top notch, high rise, penthouse apartment ( as you do and you know it.... and I know it too :uhoh:), live in the Petroleum club or Esperanza or have a account at Guns-n-roses then yes the KZT14K per month reduction will hit home....... for those without an FX converter thats around 60 quid a month

And you are right, this isn't Emirats or Etihod, BA or CX, you are with an airline who has made it through the financial crisis without scathing cuts, and we've come out the other side smiling and financially secure.... more aircraft on order, excellent pilot recruitment and great company to work for ( except for ONE unhappy individual )

[Angryinastana]

Rumour has it that an Expat has walked off a flight before it was due to leave as the local captain refused to de-ice a heavily iced wing. No news on the Local, but I guess the expat will have their pay docked and will get fired.
This place just gets better and better.

[udachi moya]

If true, I support his walkoff, but poor CRM between them to disagree to such an extent

Probably got something to do with a forgot to order deicing fluid and asked centre 1 not to deice if at all necessary.... just a rumour but damn scary if true

[Adrian Cronauer]

Air Astana could well find a few Airbuses parked for lack of crews.
Rookie! You think that there aint a line of your mates ready to jump in and take your job? Them Airbuses won't be parked! They'll be flying with cheaper crews in no time. You acually believe your something special matey. The company will replace you without missing a wink of sleep son.

[Top Geeza]

It's true. Expat does indeed walk off a flight. The local Captain refused to de-ice when the wing was contaminated with ice. Pictures were taken of the wing and are now with the company. The expat concerned is still with the airline although is leaving next month for pastures new. I understand the local Captain is back on line.

[FBW390]

Angryastana, NO, I' m not foolish nor ignorant. I' m just a captain and instructor on laug haul; and when I' m not happy with an airline or a contractor, I leave! I' ve done it many times! Please be a bit more polite next time! Thank you.
Right, I didn' t take time to check who was hiring for Astana!
Good luck;

FBW390

[Duh]

Starskate, weren't you already working there? In class or on the line flying? Where ever there is an Air Astana thread you pop up asking questions. Maybe your in management there?

[AlvinZane]

:ugh:Really, really smoth move Jason. Why did you have to take Tom down with you?:mad:

[Avid Aviator]

AZ - what?

On another tack, I see some B767/757 jobs recently advertised with Parc - expansion or replacement?

How's life for an expat (with family) in Astana?

Thanks for any info!

[ao767]

Anyone got any info on life with them lately, does anyone have their family there with them?? The international school looks okay on google, anyone got kids there? Do they pay school fees or a reasonable housing allowance, enough not to live in squaller.

Really quite in Australia and being offered leave of absence for a few years so would like to hear locals reports. Thanks for the feedbacks

[1830]

guys.
Any news yet as to the delivery date for the Embraer E jets 190? Any training started yet etc?

[Piffe320]

Hi,
Anyone had any info on the 320 sim eval and interview.
Probably, I'll have the sim next week in AMS

If you would like you can private message me!

Thanks

[weedosphere]

Yes they need F50 Captains.
Boeing crews I think are for E90's or possible extra 757

[casap]

Air Astana good if no other work. 42 days on 14 off , but if home in Europe there are 3 days of travel or more so lose 18 days of 84 not 10 of 90. not allowed to leave base until 23.59 on last day, same if finish early in the morning. Requirment to be back at base and rested to begin at 06.00 on the first day. All flights from Europe arrive 02.00 to 08.30 between so you must leave your home two days before end of the last day off. Requirment for all 42 days to accept all changes to the roster including days off in Kazakhstan. The captains fly 40 to 60 hours in month pilots from 25 to 30 remaining sby time. No changes permited if pilot ask. Every month more pilots join to replace leaving pilots no new aircraft arrive.

[I fly for money]

looks like there will be major changes in AAst , they plan to take out the commuting of the contract, they also want to kick out / not renew a lot of pilots..., i see trouble ahead......

[johnnyringo42]

Too many jobs out there for there A_ _ holes to be treating Pilots this way..

[Capt. Biff]

Hey All,

Anyone currently working at AA, feel free to pm me. I may head over to try it out and would appreciate some honest no BS info. I am currently working with an agent and am going in eyes wide open.

What do you like and dislike? Typical duty day, hours on duty, layover duration, relationship with the management...etc. I know people will say do the research and I have. Problem is, I don't know anyone currently there and I feel i could get better info from an active pilot. I know you folks can help and I am greatfull.

Cheers,
B

[skypirate2u]

I went to Astana in 2006 and throughly loved it. Stayed for several contracts. Early on there were many growing pains, but most all folks were bucko-gungho and excited by the future's prospects.

Since then things became a wee bit better and then changed rapidly in late 2009, none for the better. There were a group of non-current lads that checked in and created a bit of a stir. But given all the oddities, still no accidents.

Current management has first hand knowledge of trying to sack some very senior pilots at an East Asia Airline that operated out of a very complex area. Later the Airline was obligated to reimburse and re-instate the pilots. Hence the referred to individual packed up his rucksack and went to KZ. Guess where he is stirring the pot now?

Wages have diminished, benefits have slipped away or been re-defined. Unstable approaches result in severe pay and duty penalties. Along with that, the Yanks are not quite as welcome after the FAA Instructor training scandal the left the locals with a bit of distrust for the Yanks...and rightly so.

Qualified Pilots are in a demand and salaries, along with working conditions are far better in other places. Take a long look at the alternatives before you go to Astana. The Resourcer's have changed due to the increased competion and are not as reliable as they were five years ago. Do your research and ask many questions. Look for pay on time and penalties if it is not on time. Any clause in your contract that gives you something should be balanced with a penalty if it is not. Basically, once your are in a foreign country, you can't aways"just leave". Many require exit VISA's and leaving KZ can be an eye-opener the first time. Don't get caught up with any one Resourcer...expat 101- You don't pay the Resourcer, so they don't work for you. They are only trying to get you to sign on the dotted line and then once you arrive, many will change the contract.

Astana was fun, but that was several years ago. Very, very few of the orignal expats are there and most will not go back.

[Capt. Biff]

Skypirate,

Thanks for the response. I can understand what you are saying and I could honestly say the same thing for the US airline I am currently stuck at. After 12+yrs, it has been nothing but down hill. We have a contract that isn't worth the paper it is printed on. A sad excuse of a union that can't win anything and when something does come up they say, "fly it and grieve it." A MX department that doesn't fix anything, even the most basic stuff. You can't even get them to come out and clean the bug guts off the windshield because they say they don't have a "procedure".

Pay is almost always screwed up, I have been lucky, others not so lucky. Schedulers that try to intimidate you. A bidding system that is manipulated by the company. For example, next month the bid packet has a four day trip worth 14 hours and its not commutable on either end! I could go on and on.

So really what the difference? I pay out a butt load of money in taxes, add to that education bills,and child support, bang there goes half my paycheck! If I were to go.....I would double my take home pay and still be able to pay my obligations and save for a future. It makes me wonder tho, how bad can it really be there compared to what I am doing here?

Cheers

B

[Rocketmann]

If you want $bucks$, then you won't find it in Almaty. Those days are gone.
The very best gig for US guys that want big bucks is in India or China. India has the better tax structure with the IRS and that is where you really come ahead. The $12 to $15k each month is basically tax free as the Indian airline has a tax agreement with US IRS. So along with your daily rate and the tax paid, it's all take-home pay.

China pays very well also, but check the IRS tax agreement rules.

Talk to UDAY at EDL.com for the latest Indian slots. He is very good at putting together contracts. No....I am not a resourcer. I just found a good deal here.

[Rocketmann]

Locals were supposed to pass English test in 2007 / 2008/2009/2010 and so on...it will go on forever until all the old guys are gone and the young ones take over.

[fade to grey]

Any comments on the current sitrep at Astana ?

I am looking at the current 75/76 vacancies

[RubberDawgShit]

Please guys, remember that the subject is Air Astana.
:= No need to start a flame war here. I had signed more than one contract with Air Astana and I can only agree that **ALL** bad things said here about Air Astana and the blatent disregard for any signed part of the contract are soooo true. Absolutely forget about your contracting agency being on your side, no matter who it is!!!:*
This place apparently still is applying the "Stick and Carrott" Method:
To take a carrott and ram it up your a:mad:, then they take the stick and shove it up even higher.
NEVER NEVER GO THERE UNLESS YOU ARE STARVING and even then think about it hard. It nearly cost me my marriage because you are too far away for too long and Air Astana always finds ways to send you home unhappy.
If you are looking here, look on to China...

[aca-98]

Just heard that the current VP OPS, GO, has been fired and that the scheduler who is now Director of Not Sure What, is pressing REALLY hard to become the next VP OPS. Now, to the best of my knowledge, his guy doesn't have pilots license but was a navigator or something like that in South Africa. I was always under the impression, perhaps wrongly so, that an airline VP OPS had to be a pilot ( as in having an ATPL WITH considerable experience)! I have also been told that he stands a very good chance of succeeding which will be very bad news indeed ( as if it could get worse) for the flight crews but, unfortunately, just another example of the wondrous workings of Air Astana ex-pat management. I am very surprised that the "locals" put up with it! Oh well!:ugh: