Defence green paper to suggest we co-operate more with the French..

[airborne_artist]

Well - would you? Stories serious and funny about the French forces, but not the defence/alert state gags, they are too old.

[sidewayspeak]

I'd rather co-operate with the French (despite the long history!) than the Afghans we are now expected to 'partner'. I would not want to share a patrol base - even worse an admin area - with Afghans. I'd be constantly looking over my shoulder whilst holding my Sig close at hand in case they were the next bunch to try and murder some coalition forces. However, I am guilty of immediate thread creep, back to your original question.

The French are our closest neighbours, and as western europeans we share many cultural values. I have worked with them, and would do so again. Albeit with a few napolionic jibes to remind them that we won, and they lost! ;)

[pr00ne]

sidewayspeak,

Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................

1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.

[sidewayspeak]

Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................

1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.

Fair and accurate point; however, they don't like to be reminded about the most recent ones - especially the Napoleonic encounters - and banter has to reach to the most annoying issues for maximum effect!

[BEagle]

Always great fun working with our leetle froggy friends!

During Bold Gauntlet, from Gutersloh, we were supposed to practise escorting either a C310 or a Fench C-160 up the 'passageway' (don't say 'corridor'....:eek:).

The Brits had an F4 det, the French had some Mirage IIIs - and the spams had F-15As. Of course the spams could have done the whole thing themselves, but this was a political gesture. Nevertheless, the spams spent ages working out tactics, whereas the Brits and the French just bumbled around their assigned sector. Various codewords were assigned for whoever saw the intruding 'MiG' - either a Hunter T7A / T8B from Laarbits or an F-16. When the spams were leading, codewords woulf be things like 'Snake' or 'Bear' or other oo-rah words...:bored: But when it came the turn of an F-4 mate known as Stu T+9 to lead, the words were 'knobber' and 'pillock' etc....;)

Hilarious listening to Les Froggies announcing "Blue 2 is nobbeurre!"

Then came the day the French had the lead and the C-160 was the transport to be escorted. They took the Brit C-130 captain along for the ride - along with all the prettiest WRAFs on the base (and there were quite a few back then!).

Bimbling about flying figure-of-eight on the left wing, Impiger and I were astonished to see the French Mirages neatly lined up in echelon behind the C160, with the Hunter and F-16 tacked on the end. The C-160 ramp was down and the only person on the flight deck was the Brit C-130 captain who'd never flown a C-160 in his life! The rest of the French team were partying with the girls in the back and taking photos of their Mirage mates!

I think that Words were Had by the F-15 boss as he thought this was all a bit unprofessional. To soothe international relations, he offered a visiting French general a trip in the F-15B. Usual brief, then down to flying clothing....

When handed his turning trousers, the Frenchman announced in a rather superior way "Ah am a fighter peelot - Ah do not need a g-suit!"

The boss went to find the most aggressive pilot on his det and told him "The general says he doesn't need a g-suit; perhaps you would like to change his mind for him?"

So off they went. The spam held it down along the entire length of the runway, then pulled hard into a full A/B spiral climb until he arrived at the max permitted alt, throttled back to idle/idle, popped full speed brake and went into in a max rate descending turn to the IP, roared in to the circuit and landed. Of course the general had been out of it from the moment they entered the spiral climb...

"How was it?" asked the boss? "Oh, it was very interesting"

Then came the final part of the F-15 trip - an entire raw egg to eat, with shell. The general accepted with good grace.

Working with the French is great, from my experience. Same during our Incirlik tanker dets.

[Lancelot37]

Isn't it true that the British Army Officers once wore red trousers so that if they were injured in battle the blood would not show up and put off the rest of the troops?

The French Army Officers wore brown trousers!

[airborne_artist]

Procurement is one area for co-operation, I expect.

The French could procure the cheese, quite a lot of the wine, and the uniforms for the female service-people, perhaps?

The Brits could keep hold of buying the beer, the bacon/sausages and the horses (or the French would eat them).

Other suggestions?

[tonker]

The French flag should be a white cross on a white background!

[Madbob]

Before we get too sold on Gawdon Brown's latest wheese to avoid spending the level of money that any sensible government ought to be spending to safeguard the national interest, has anyone canvassed the French national opinion of having to work with us?

For all I know the French still have some Gallic pride and they may want to preserve it. France still has serious oveseas interests in the Pacific, in Africa (Dijbouti, Senegal, Chad and others), in the Caribbean (Martinique, Guadaloupe, St. Martin) and Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean. They also have an independent nuclear deterrent.....the French won't take kindly to suggestions to disband the Patrouille de France, and to amalgamate them with the Reds!

We used to share a strong sense of national pride but its all been pi$$ed away with insipid politics, helf & safety, equal opportunities, human rights, and a nanny-state mentality.....

I'm not after a fascist or dictator-led state but we were able to sustain 3.5% to 5% of GDP spending on defence in the really austere period after WWII and throughout the Cold War and that is the kind of spend we ought to be maintaining if we are to ensure the protection of British interests worldwide. Sure, I agree with the need to save money in the short-term and to maximise the efficient use of what cash we have available but crisis mangement is not good for long term policy-making.

If we carry one as now planned the UK won't merit a seat in the UN security council and the PM and Foreign Secretary can put away the soap-box and forget about attending the G7, 8, 20 or whatever in the future.....

Gawdon has sold off the family silver (our gold reserves), reduced the overseas presence of our high commissions/embassies, and any beneficial influence the UK might have in the future on the world stage will lack any credability....What a shameful legacy of office to leave behind, it would make Duncan Sandys or Dr. Beeching look like saints in comparison.

MB

(I'll turn my mike sx off, in case you hear my hyper-breathing!)

[Cows getting bigger]

On the positive side, a coalition with a country other than the USA would probably stop us from having another Phoney Tony Iraq war.

[navibrator]

Of course I would - I do find these threads and negative comments about our allies insulting!

[Mick Strigg]

I like eating cheese but I don't like the idea of surrendering!

[BEagle]

I admire the French attitude towards petty bureaucracy.

At Incirlik, the Cousins decided that your 'orders' (those things without which Spams can't even wipe their own backsides, it seems) had to be stamped with some liquor rationing nonsense; every time you bought a bottle in the Class 6, the check-out person would fill in the ration allocation box, to ensure that you didn't buy too much.....:\

Our gallant French allies had a straightforward solution to the Cousins' bureaucracy. They just issued themselves with as many NATO travel orders as they needed - and made their own 'liquor stamp'.........:ok:

Allez la France!!

[ImageGear]

Has anyone noticed just how many ex-light blue Pruniers post from somewhere near a glass of Merlot in the Carcassonne.

Lets face it, who's got the right priorities :ok:

Imagegear

[Ken Scott]

Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................

1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.



My history may be a little bit rusty, but it wasn't the French who won in 1066, it was the Normans, who were descended from the Vikings (Norsemen) - completely different set of cads to the 'Franks' (French) next door who now just happen to occupy the area of Normandy, which incidentaly they 'stole' from 'us' (ie: descendants of the Normans/ Anglo Saxons).

Also, didn't the 100 Years War include 2 minor skirmishes - Crecy & Agincourt?

PS: can we have the Canterbury Emroidery back? (AKA Bayeux Tapestry)

[cazatou]

Lancelot 37

It was the French Army which wore "Red Trousers" - something for which they suffered badly during the opening stages of WW1. The British Army wore the "brown" (or Khaki) trousers.

It was in 1912 that the French War Minister Adolphe Messimy (having observed the Bulgarian Army wearing dull coloured Uniforms in action in 1912) proposed that the French Army dispense with the "Pantallons Rouge" they had worn since Napoleonic times. He was promptly over ruled by the President. The French went into action in 1914 still wearing a conspicuous Blue and Red uniform - with disastous results.

Still, we should never let facts get in the way of a good blast of Xenophobia -should we?

[Gainesy]

and the uniforms for the female service-people, perhaps?


Mebbe on St, Cyr's finest (they top ugly applicants) but on the Metric Tonne Blunt Mingers from Cranwell?

[barnstormer1968]

I'm kind of with MadBob on this one.

While it can be great fun to take the micky out of the French, I am also very aware that their second rate country can produce it's own aircraft, and sell them worldwide. Design and build it's own military vehicles and sell them too. They have their own fully independent nuclear capability. They have a proud heritage, and are very defensive about allow their language to be corrupted (something I strongly agree with).
And then there is the mighty UK (after many years of useless and cowardly politicians)
We cant make anything for ourselves, tend to want to buy elsewhere...So at least our kit will work!. Our young people tend to talk with an American accent, and have very limited vocabularies.
While BEagles tale above was very amusing, it is worth noting that the French were flying Mirages and a C160 (home built, and widely exported) while the RAF had the mighty F4, which had been imported, and then spoiled with a political engine fit!

Sorry to be negative, but why on earth would the French want to work with us.
I am sure they have high regard for our individual forces (as I do), but then its our glorious leaders who are actually getting us into one scrap after another.

[Jackonicko]

While the French are still building their own combat aircraft (the Rafale and a few helicopters - though the latter are the product of a consortium), there are no more combat aircraft programmes after that.

Nor are they selling them worldwide. Rafale has yet to get a single export order (yes, it's looking good in Brazil....), and the French forces are so cash-scrapped that the annual Rafale delivery rate has been slowed to the 'minimum economic level' - of just 11 aircraft per year. And exports will be used to allow a further delivery slow down to the French forces.

I'm not 'dissing' the French, by any means, just pointing out that they face VERY similar problems to us.

[Stitchbitch]

Well then, when we join up with our Garlic loving brothers we should be able to boost the sales of Rafale Naval for use on our joint carriers du naval avions.:ok:

[Finnpog]

I personally like the French and wonder whether they would want to be part of a mixed marriage with us.

I also have to admire their pragmatism:

Keeping the Legion as their principal expeditionary force.
Cat & Trap carrier with the Hawkeye on board.

And perhaps also the DGSE's pragmatism with regard to the Rainbow Warrior. Almost Israeli in concept.

[knowitall]

"And perhaps also the DGSE's pragmatism with regard to the Rainbow Warrior."

Using violence on peaceful protestors, killing a photographer, and then being incompetant enough to be caught by New Zealands much feared intelligence service?

we can cope without pragmatism like that

[Jabba_TG12]

"Using violence on peaceful protestors, killing a photographer, and then being incompetant enough to be caught by New Zealands much feared intelligence service?

we can cope without pragmatism like that"

Yeah. We'd never do anything like that.... would we? :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:

[NutLoose]

We must be the laughing stock of Europe............................How the mighty have fallen :mad:

[Stitchbitch]

Laughing stock? Aren't we already?

Think of the possibilties when we join forces with the French. Good looking women, nice pointy aeroplanes, carriers with arrestor gear, all that wine and not only can we fight in the middle east but we can make low flying videos in Chad..:E and have a viable naval aviation wing for the new JFF*.

*Joint Force Force.

[NutLoose]

"Hello Gordon? this is Obama here, look we've got this little war and we want you to join in, are you up for it??"

"Och Eye (one off) count us in, we'll bring our new Carrier fleet Obama"

"Bonsewer Nicolas, Gordon here, hey, about your Carriers, we'd like to borrow them next Tuesday if at all possible please, we have a little war to fight alongside the Americans."

Click........ Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr "Hello Nicolas? are you there Nicolas???...... Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Yeah, Right! :mad:

[Finnpog]

Sorry if you mistook my tone as smugness. The murder of innocents is not to be applauded.

The sheer goddamned ruthlessness of the Op, to me anyhoo, does demonstrate a degree of focus which sometimes appears to be lacking in the modern(ish) UK government (David Kelly conspiracy theorists - hop in now).

If the ship had sailed as planned, then the loss of hands would be an unanswered mystery rather than the outing which it was.

The defence of the Realm can be a nasty, dirty business at times; which I am sure you appreciate.

[LFFC]

Well then, that's another cunning plan down the pan!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/09/article-2071952-0F1EFEC200000578-840_308x202.jpg (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-2071952/Eurozone-crisis-David-Cameron-vetoes-EU-treaty-save-euro.html)

[Willard Whyte]

**** 'em!.

[NutLoose]

"Ahh Bonjuno Dave, our carrier group will be visiting Plymouth on Friday and will require refuelling, do you accept Euros"?.....Click.........." Hello Dave.... Dave are you there"????

[Capetonian]

The French have never lost a battle. The French have never done anything wrong.

Everything that has ever gone wrong in French history, be it military, commercial, or economic, has been somebody else's fault. The French are perfect. Always.

Isn't it wonderful to always have someone else to blame!

[Corporal Clott]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSobxrkXoR4b1YV2UsW8uxR-C1DfBZNUMPtjfVEQ8tEddyyvf3bbQ

Right froggy, listen up!

1. Don't try to tell me how my banks should run.
2. Stop sucking up to the boxheads if you are looking for my support.
3. Stop wearing those ridiculous cuban heels - just accept it, you're short!
4. Stop trying to push Dassault's lack of orders on my patch when it comes to procurement competitions.
5. We've bailed you out of 2 sticky situations last century and now you're in a financial mess in this one, any chance, if we agree to help, that you will be grateful and not stab us in the back next time around? No? I thought not. Detante over...

[FODPlod]

The French have never lost a battle. The French have never done anything wrong.

Everything that has ever gone wrong in French history, be it military, commercial, or economic, has been somebody else's fault. The French are perfect. Always.

Isn't it wonderful to always have someone else to blame!

Our main problem with the French is that, just like us, they always know they are right.

[glojo]

Our main problem with the French is that, just like us, they always know they are right.

I thought it was that some of them cannot speak English!! :O:O

[Capetonian]

It goes deeper than most of them not speaking English.

Some do, and some speak it well. The problem is their totally screwed up thought processes, whereby even when they speak English fluently and coherently, what they say makes no sense. It is therefore impossible to reason with them. There is one notable exception, Christine Lagarde, who should be in charge of the whole lot.

As Charles de Gaulle once asked "how can you govern a country in which there are 246 kinds of cheese?

Then there is their counting system. Where normal people say 'ninety seven', they say : 'Four twenties and seventeen'. Is it any wonder they are so screwed up?

There's their plumbing. I once stayed in a hotel near Avignon where you had to put the plug into the washbasin before flushing the toilet, otherwise the contents of the toilet bowl would be expelled into the air through the washbasin, hence the brown ceiling.

They could build a supersonic passenger aircraft (with a little help!) but the toilets still stank.

[cazatou]

glojo

In my experience a large percentage of the English cannot speak English.

[Capetonian]

In my experience a large percentage of the English cannot speak English.

True. Most of my Polish friends speak and write it far better than many English people.

Ear, is you 'avin a go at me and me mates?:p

[Finningley Boy]

Time for David Cameron to gently lay his palms on Sarky's shoulders and gently blow in his ear!:E

Or should that be Christine Lagarde?!:eek:

FB:)

[BATCO]

For some of you to think about, here's the only good quote I know about the French...

'zat eez all very well, eet might work in practice, but eet will never work in teeory'.

Remember the FEBAG, which became the EUBAG and who knows what it is now.


BATCO
avec ma langue dans ma joue.