ALAEA Elections June 2010

[Oh Me Oh My]

I'm looking to put name up for a QF councillor position on the Federal Executive at the next coming elections. Given the track record of the present executive I'm hoping someone could me some advice in regard to obtaining that. :ok:

[mister hilter]

Where do you work and who is the current councillor? Maybe he's had enough and wants to step down. You could ask him, or failing that run against him. IMO I think this exec will all get re-elected should they run for office this election.

[What The]

Where do you work and who is the current councillor?

I work in Qantas I.R.

My name is (Ian Oldmeadow. Sue Bussell, John Farrow, Doug Mills etc. etc.) (you fill in the loser's name).

The current councillor is a nameless **** because he causes me trouble by sticking up for his members.

Bastard!!!!!!!

[Oh Me Oh My]

I work in Syd, I don't think any of the guys there are thinking of standing down, I'm just wondering whether I should approach the current group to see if there's a vacancy or just run. I agree it's a hard ask but I want to be apart of it I need a new goal.

[qf 1]

WHAT THE,good to see the old Qantas wit hasn't changed since i got the arse.LOL too good..:}

[mister hilter]

Nice reply What The, but it's cost you a new keyboard!

OMOM, I can only reiterate what I already said, and if no one wants to stand down then after the Exec's performance/leadership during the EBA negs and subsequent PIA, I think it may a tough election campaign for you.

[Oh Me Oh My]

Thanks Guys (well some of you - to What the, I'm company IR) I guess I gotta find a new goal..................:{

[LAMESfirst]

$20 says that What The is either Purvinas or one of his bum-chums - making out that anyone who opposes him is Management - hardly union democracy.



With my access "behind the scenes" and access to post IP addresses, my $20 says it is a larrikin with a warped sense of humour.

Would you care to send me your $20?

Tail Wheel

[QF94]

$20 says that What The is either Purvinas or one of his bum-chums - making out that anyone who opposes him is Management - hardly union democracy.

As you're new here, I think the name ALAEAfedsec speaks for itself. Familiarise yourself with who the fed sec is, and you will have the correct name.

It's fair to say, that this current Association leadership has done more for its members than its predecessors. Hence the previous lot being unanimously ejected from office for being company "YES" men and looking after their own interests before that of the members. That's why the previous Fed Sec is now an acting manager at QF.

The level support for the current Association comittee by its members is higher than it has been for many years. Why? The fed sec and president are not employed by the airlines.

Maybe LAME's1st, you are a member of management, and it's you and your bum chums opposing the Association and its members.

$20 says I'm right!!!

[poacher2gamekeeper]

OMOM,

Should have gone in it for the big one mate. :\

Too late now. Barriers drawn and the field is set. Wait! Wait! Wait! Late news just in... the favourite has been scratched at the gate. Self inflicted injury he's been carrying around for some time it seems.

Word round the course and in the betting ring now is there is now only one left in the field and it will not even go to the track. Winner to be declared at the starting gate.

SP bookies are kicking themselves as they had him down as the favourite in a two horse race. Unbackable odds it seems. Laid off a motza with the other bookies. Sack the strapper, the trainer AND the jockey I say...

Could still go to the stewarts, but I doubt it. :E Will win next time if true to form?

P2G

[the rim]

a bit deep mate......but beware of indian cobras

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Well P2G it may just be that I am shopping around for a better bookie to lay my bet. Would you care to give me some odds on me being Federal Secretary after this election now that you think I am out of the race?

Maybe we should just have a look how accurate you were in 2007 before the ALAEA became the first union to break Qantas's 3% wage cap in 15 years -



To ALAEA Fed Sec

:oh::oh::oh::oh::oh:

Seeing as you like to conduct business in such a public forum here’s some impartial feedback for those you represent, if not for you, from someone that gives a s#!t about all the good things done, and continue to be done, to raise the professional standing of the LAME in this industry of ours over the years.

Sadly, until there is a separation between the industrial muscle-up and the professional advocacy no one inside is going to take you seriously SP.

The two approaches are like oil and water. Until you understand the damage you continue to do long term to the overall industry and to the long term interests of those you represent, with blind destructive aggression and erroneous propaganda, you will continue to tear down the house.

Some of your rants to the media are indicative of either a poor knowledge of the actual subject matter or a wilful disregard for some of the basic tenets we all live by, and the association stands for, i.e. wait for the facts before shooting your mouth off.

Hope PS can rein you in a bit and bring some sanity (and respect) back to the association.

You are, rather sadly, seen by many of your 'peers' as the Norm Gallagher of the aviation industry.

A bit like a train crash about to happen really in that everyone knows what is coming but no one can look away.


P2G

[helpfulnot]

Sorry to hear about the election you are a good bloke SP, :Dbut not sorry about SR as I find it hard for a trustee to be able to also get paid for working full time.

SR should not have put his name down for the election and position of Trustee.:=

[LAME2]

I would not try and justify a persons renumeration against their position title in this situation. I would ask myself, are the members receiving value fo their money and I would look at what benefits the incumbent is bringing to the members.

If the incumbent was placed in your desired scenario, would the members be recieving the same value for money and benefits?

The answer is very subjective.

Hard for us outsiders to see the bigger picture at times, but there again, this is a rumor network.

[Bumpfoh]

The fed sec and president are not employed by the airlines.

I think you will find the president is an employee of QF, not that that affects his performance as pres or as a LAME for that matter.:ok:

[Managers Perspective]

OMOM,

Should have gone in it for the big one mate.

Too late now. Barriers drawn and the field is set. Wait! Wait! Wait! Late news just in... the favourite has been scratched at the gate. Self inflicted injury he's been carrying around for some time it seems.

Word round the course and in the betting ring now is there is now only one left in the field and it will not even go to the track. Winner to be declared at the starting gate.

SP bookies are kicking themselves as they had him down as the favourite in a two horse race. Unbackable odds it seems. Laid off a motza with the other bookies. Sack the strapper, the trainer AND the jockey I say...

Could still go to the stewarts, but I doubt it. Will win next time if true to form?

P2G


Looks like this PPRuNe rumour had some substance.

See here for an article in today's papers: Union leader takes on electoral commission over ban | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/union-leader-takes-on-electoral-commission-over-ban/story-e6frg6nf-1225871315952)

MP

[hewlett]

SP has made large gains for the rights of both his membership and unionism in general as well as trying to maintain the safe reputation of australian aviation.The ACTU needs to assist and ensure justice prevails in this case,I can't see much help coming from the airlines.To the challenger,don't expect too much support after these shenanigans,"karma" is a bitch.

[helpfulnot]

I understand how you may feel in regards to this problem, but I have heard - rumour that is - The ALAEA is funding you legal fees, is this correct. If this is correct is it not against the ALAEA rules to actually back a particular person/s for election. I understood the ALAEA to be neutral on election matters. :rolleyes:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

rumour that is - The ALAEA is funding you legal fees, is this correct.

No, not correct. Steve Re and I have engaged Counsel at $3000 per day or part there of. We have both applied for legal aid and if that is rejected will use our own election fighting fund that we have all been contributing to over the past couple of years. We also have countless offers of donations so i think we should have it covered.

The ALAEA will choose to do what they will with the case. Both Re and I have stood aside from any decision related to the election. The case is between us and the AEC. Interested parties can also supply a submission and I assume there will be two other parties.

1. The ALAEA who if the decision remains may be adversly effected because no LAME could ever hold the senior position in the union and also "manage the office and employees" as the rules say they should.

2. The bloke who is running against me who wants a free ride into the position without the support of the members.

Happy to answer any further questions.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Thnx OS,

The EBA you refer to I assume was the Qf one which was a real team effort. I actually wasn't even on our EBA committee so most the credit goes to the guys that were. I did take charge of a lot of comms though.

I think our membership is strong in many other areas also notably due to lesser profile battles we have won at Skywest, Eastern, Helicopters NZ and Virgin.

cheers
Steve

[Oh Me Oh My]

All I wanted to do was contest for a position and hopefully win it, this outcome sickens me what a piece of work this idiot must be I hope he fails terribly :mad:

[helpfulnot]

Thanks for your reply Fedsec, wish you all the best of luck :ok:

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Personally, this whole situation disgusts me. SP was elected by the membership and enjoys near universal support. What he has achieved for members of the ALAEA in his short time as the Fed Sec, surpasses anything I have seen in the fifteen years prior.

Is CASA behind this? Maybe. My instincts tell me that “:mad:the airline who does not like to be named in public forums:mad:” is more than likely involved.

The individual from Avalon who has nominated to take on the Fed Sec role is either opportunistic, has been put up to it or both. If my instincts are right, this proves once again just how low “:mad:the airline who does not like to be named in public forums:mad:” is willing to go.

In the interests of LAME’s, and all others employed in Aviation engineering, I hope the AEC decision is overturned.... and I say that as a current AME and non ALAEA member!

[Kiwiconehead]

SP has helped me out on occasion, really good guy and breath of fresh air compared to the previous executive, what is happening now does suck a fairly decent set of monkey balls.

[Tidbinbilla]

No airline name is blocked in D&G.

You can speak up, BSC.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey all,


I can absolutely assure everyone that no airline is behind the two man challenge from Avalon. I have spoken to senior airline officials and although they would prefer not to deal with the ALAEA these days due to its recent success, the managers always know where they stand with us and when we shake hands and agree to take or not take action, we always follow through with our commitments. Simply, I think they respect us.

The two from Avalon are seen as a far worse option by management and have been known to act irrationally and press matters that have little or no prospect of success.

I do however believe that CASA are involved in this drive to have us replaced. This is evidenced by the way our personal details were handed across almost immediately to one of the candidates after the individual wrote to them explaining that we could be removed from our positions if our licences were not current (yet to be determined if licence currency is required). The ALAEA are caught up in a long running FOI case with CASA that started 3 years ago when we requested information about surveylance of overseas maintenance facilities.

When I called CASA to ask why my personal details were handed over, I was put through to the FOI manager. He said he didn't have a problem handing my details over because an FOI application was lodged. He then asked why I would complain when we had a similar application for information in against CASA. He directly linked it to our application without provocation.

What goes around comes around.

[the rim]

yes what has happened does suck....but keep the thread on track the previous executive helped me and am sure that the one before helped someone else and so on, so lets stick together on this and try save steve's position so we dont have to put up with a venomous cobra

[helpfulnot]

What is the latest on the elections when do we find out who is our Federal Secretary and trustee :p

[the rim]

anyone know what happened at the court hearing,yesterday

[Quill Shaft]

As long as licence expired less than 2 years ago, You can just sit AA (Air Leg) to have the Licence Reactivated.

AAC 9-0 states

8. Renewal of Expired AME Licences

CAR 32A places the responsibility for renewing AME licences squarely on the shoulders of the licence holder. The regulation also states that the licence may be renewed before it expires. There is no regulation that permits the renewal of the licence after it expires.

Accordingly, applicants for the issue of an AME licence that has expired must comply with ALL the requirements for the issue of an AME licence as stipulated in CAR 31 (4), CAO 100.90 and the applicable sections and the applicable AAC. As the holder of an expired AME licence has previously been assessed as being a "Qualified Person" (as defined by CAR 31(4)) by virtue of previously holding a licence, it can be assumed that he/she is still a “Qualified Person".

The applicant will however, still have to satisfy the Authority that he/she has no disability that could affect his/her technical skill or judgement. Both CAR 31 (4)(b)(iii) and CAO 100.90 Para 6 require applicants for an AME licence to hold a credit for the Airworthiness Examination "AA" before the licence is issue.

Further more, CAO 100.90 Para 6 states that the "AA"credit be gained within the previous twenty-four months of the licence being issued. As an AME licence is only valid for twenty-four months, the credit for the "AA" examination expires at the same time as the licence. Consequently, applicants for the issue of an expired AME licence must pass the full written "AA" examination before the licence can again be issued, even if the licence has expired for only one day.

Applications for the issue of AME licences that have expired in excess of twenty- four months shall be referred to Canberra for assessment of the applicant’s recent Aviation experience. Depending on the time of inactivity in the industry, applicants may be required to complete a reduced Schedule of Experience (SOE) or in extreme cases a full SOE and sit examination/s designed to assess the applicant’s technical knowledge.

Note: Applicants for the issue of an AME licence that has expired for LESS THAN TWO YEARS will be required to pay for the:
c. "AA" examination; and
d. reissue of the AME licence. (item 8.2 of the Schedule of Fees refers)

Applicants for the issue on an AME licence that has expired for a period of TWO YEARS OR GREATER will be required to pay for the:
a. "AA" examination; and
b. issue of the AME licence. (item 8.1 of the Schedule of Fees refers)

Holders AME licences that have expired are reminded that certifications made during the period in which the licence was expired do not constitute a certification and it is an offence under CAR 282 1). When licence holders become aware that their licence had expired and that they have made certifications during the period of licence invalidity, they must contact the closest Airworthiness office for instructions.

[QF94]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does anything below have to do with running an Association? These are CASA regulations for someone to be "qualified" (and I use that term loosely) to show their preficiency to certify aircraft.

CAR's have nothing to do with the executive positions within an Association/Union. Just because one no longer holds a licence does not preclude them from being proficient to represent his members. SP is most probably still more "Qualified" without his licence than those that hold theirs. SP or his possible replacement don't have to know how to swing a spanner or hook up an electrical loom. Their job is to know the legalities of the responsibilities of a LAME and the EBA they are bound by, and to ensure that all parties are keeping withing the EBA.

Let's look at the bigger picture. This headhunting at this stage of the game has come about because if the upcoming EBA, and the two Steves are wanted to be out of the way to make way for a more compliant ALAEA.

Regardless of who is heading the ALAEA, and I'm hoping its SP, it is still up to the members to vote and stand for their rights as was done in the GREAT WAR of 2008!

Remeber this point. If the new Fed Sec is an airline employee, he cannot have his loyalty in two places at once. If he does as he's told by his employer, he will climb the corporate ladder. If he stands fast and supports his members, his prospects of climbng the ladder will be somewhat thwarted.


As long as licence expired less than 2 years ago, You can just sit AA (Air Leg) to have the Licence Reactivated.

AAC 9-0 states

8. Renewal of Expired AME Licences

CAR 32A places the responsibility for renewing AME licences squarely on the shoulders of the licence holder. The regulation also states that the licence may be renewed before it expires. There is no regulation that permits the renewal of the licence after it expires.

Accordingly, applicants for the issue of an AME licence that has expired must comply with ALL the requirements for the issue of an AME licence as stipulated in CAR 31 (4), CAO 100.90 and the applicable sections and the applicable AAC. As the holder of an expired AME licence has previously been assessed as being a "Qualified Person" (as defined by CAR 31(4)) by virtue of previously holding a licence, it can be assumed that he/she is still a “Qualified Person".

The applicant will however, still have to satisfy the Authority that he/she has no disability that could affect his/her technical skill or judgement. Both CAR 31 (4)(b)(iii) and CAO 100.90 Para 6 require applicants for an AME licence to hold a credit for the Airworthiness Examination "AA" before the licence is issue.

Further more, CAO 100.90 Para 6 states that the "AA"credit be gained within the previous twenty-four months of the licence being issued. As an AME licence is only valid for twenty-four months, the credit for the "AA" examination expires at the same time as the licence. Consequently, applicants for the issue of an expired AME licence must pass the full written "AA" examination before the licence can again be issued, even if the licence has expired for only one day.

Applications for the issue of AME licences that have expired in excess of twenty- four months shall be referred to Canberra for assessment of the applicant’s recent Aviation experience. Depending on the time of inactivity in the industry, applicants may be required to complete a reduced Schedule of Experience (SOE) or in extreme cases a full SOE and sit examination/s designed to assess the applicant’s technical knowledge.

Note: Applicants for the issue of an AME licence that has expired for LESS THAN TWO YEARS will be required to pay for the:
c. "AA" examination; and
d. reissue of the AME licence. (item 8.2 of the Schedule of Fees refers)

Applicants for the issue on an AME licence that has expired for a period of TWO YEARS OR GREATER will be required to pay for the:
a. "AA" examination; and
b. issue of the AME licence. (item 8.1 of the Schedule of Fees refers)

Holders AME licences that have expired are reminded that certifications made during the period in which the licence was expired do not constitute a certification and it is an offence under CAR 282 1). When licence holders become aware that their licence had expired and that they have made certifications during the period of licence invalidity, they must contact the closest Airworthiness office for instructions.

[Ngineer]

If any-one thinks they can get a free ride to run our Union membership due to a technicality then tell them to snap out of it. Simply put, its just not going to happen. End of story... :-)

[helpfulnot]

anyone know what happened at the Federal Court???????

[the rim]

your right it has nothing to do with CASA.......its our rules that you have to be a LAME....thats what this is all about the difference of holding a current licence or holding a licence that has not been renewed,either way you still hold the quals in my view so you should still be able to stand for re-election....but its the courts that will make that determination........any news on that ?????

[QF94]

Unfortunately, the courts are only led by the blind following of any technicalities, and not by the past performance of someone who has done the job as it's supposed to be. Impartial, in the interests of the members and making those accountable that should be made accountable.

Maybe the constitution of the ALAEA should be revised to read that those making up the senior levels of the Association should have held an aircraft licence during their career, but don't need to hold a current licence to occupy the position. Anyone second that motion?

I agree, SP has the qualifications as a LAME and to represent the members. The fact that his licence is not current does not diminish his ability to do the job, as he has done so well to date. I can't even remember the last fedsec that has done a job like he has, although I know they're lurking about in junior management roles around the place.

[tnfixer]

Why was this rule (22e ) introduced in 2001?.Does anyone know?. How do we modify/change it now, to better reflect the current environment. Judging by the comments we have support for a vote or at least a quorum to request a vote. We should support our current executive to the max. They have done more for the members in the last 3 years than any executive in the previous 20.

[QF94]

as a great man once said -


Quote:
This is a load of balderdash and absolute bunkum
I can't say too much because of the court case but do know that yesterday the judge ruled that the ALAEA can make presentations at the hearing because the decision will effect them. The other candidate objected but was unsuccessful in his objections.

If the rules were interpretted correctly they would not need to be changed. The CASA policy for AME licencing makes one point clear -


Quote:
Where a LAME submits an application to renew his or her AME licence after the expiry date of the licence, the applicaiton should be processed under on of the following categories.....

Once the initial licence is granted, you are always a LAME.

Not a truer word spoken. Anyway, let's hope commonsense (which seems to be NIL Stock, with a backorder of 15 years) prevails, and the courts see that no policy/procedure/constitution has been breached and everyone can get on with the job of laying EBA9 on the table for another round of intense negotiations.

The current ALAEA Representatives have done what they were elected into office for, and that is to represent its members to the fullest.

[the rim]

once a LAME yes .....but lets not change things so that we can be controled by anyone that has not acheived this qual. the ALAEA means LICENCED ENGINEER...LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY

[Oh Me Oh My]

When is this crazy sh!t going to be sorted out ?

[QF94]

Relax. This is just another one of the bungers that is thrown into the works to divert the ALAEA and put some fear into the members.

If we all know what we want, and are prepared to stand for it, then there isn't much the companies, CASA or the AEC can do. Even in the worst case scenario, that IF SP is removed from his position, there's nothing stopping him from acting as a consultant and giving advice to the members. This is a free country afterall.

If the members of the ALAEA could stand together in 2008, thene there's nothing stopping them from standing together in 2010.

It's up to us to stand for what we want. Many of the company employees are pretty well fed up with the way things are going, and the current management doesn't fare any better than their predecessors. Same game, different players.

[Oh Me Oh My]

Any word on the AVV elections? they were to finish today yes ?

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Any news of the court case from yesterday. I bet the Virgin guys are glad they had SP looking after them and bedded down their EBA before the elections (or lack of them). I for one am not looking forward to an Indian Summer!!!

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[Oh Me Oh My]

Results from AVV say neither Forstaff councillors were returned for another term, yet one believes he should be fed sec, what crap :ugh:

[Jethro Gibbs]

good golly gosh

[ampclamp]

I see a court decision has been reserved.more on 30th June I believe.
(If I read the court blurb correctly)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

FYI guys,

Federal Court has cleared me to run in the election. Steve Re elected unnopposed. Part of the decision -


Conclusion and orders


28
It follows from this construction of the sub-rule that the Returning Officer wrongly (though understandably) rejected the nomination of Mr Purvinas and Mr Re. These are irregularities. There should be an election for the office of Federal Secretary though I understand that Mr Re was the only nominee for the position of Trustee. What flows from that is a matter I will consider when considering what orders should be made. More generally, I will hear the parties on what orders should be made and, in particular, what orders should be made about the occupation of the office of Federal Secretary until the results of the election are known.

[ampclamp]

Justice serves well.
good luck....I doubt that you will need too much though.:ok:

[Bumpfoh]

Justice serves well.

Indeed, and as previously mentioned good luck with the election and then you can get back to concentrating on the real issues.

Some unanswered questions remain however namely CASA's apparent "unhindered willingness" to hand over information on SP when this is totally against the grain for them (from an elapsed time perspective) and ultimately WHO pays for this little mess? :ugh::ugh:

Time will tell.:ok:

[ampclamp]

It will be interesting to see how many candidates in fact do run now we have a proper election with the incumbent being allowed to seek re-election.
Will the challenger still run? Pull out now and go quietly, or go to the vote and very likely get hammered?
Let's see some policy, not opportunism please.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hi all,

Just a reminder that the ballot papers have arrived and need to be returned this week. It would be good to see a large turnout and although the biggest hurdle for me has been overcome, I don't consider the ballot to be a foregone conclusion.

cheers
Steve P

[ampclamp]

convincing win as expected.keep up the good work.

[lame1]

Little bird tells me Parras has resigned from the ALAEA since his defeat.Thats what you would expect from a good union man.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Torqueman]

Maybe his next role will be in Forstaff management.

[Jethro Gibbs]

It would not be the first time an ALAEA Person ended up in Forstaff management in fact one is the head arse kicker that the ALAEA has to deal with thats why getting anything done is so hard.