Qn: How do you do it - ie. manage the family?

[The_Pharoah]

hi all

the Mrs has asked me a rather serious but important question - how do pilots, esp in regionals or airlines (with rostering that may not have regard for Sat + Sun = weekend) manage to keep their family and, especially, their Mrs/Mr happy?

I done a lot of reading through these here forums and have read the comments re lots of failed relationships, marriages, etc but thats only a few. Obviously pilots love flying and you need the support of your Mrs and family, and there must be a lot of pilots who are able to balance their careers with their family life.

The Mrs will be reading this with interest.

Thanks

P

[PercyWhino]

AIDS

Aviation
Induced
Divorce
Syndrome

[Arnold E]

First question, Did the missus know you were a pilot before she became the missus? If so, no sympathy for the missus. These days there are many jobs that require Sat, Sun work or all sorts of shifts. Pilots are not exclusive here. Dont forget the engineers, who most times are working all sorts of odd shifts "to keep 'em flying":cool:

[novice110]

To Mrs Pharoah,

I've been airline flying for about ten years or so. I have a wife, one beautiful child and we manage to make a nice life.

It has definately been easier since my wife has stopped 'normal' work. You know, Mon - Fri 9-5. She's been able to pick up some shift work, which can easily fit around my roster. Basically we get my roster mid month, and she will build her's around mine. Luckily she has some control over her shifts. Even without this luxury though, it's still managable.

I've flown with many guys/girls over the last few years. To try and gauge ANYTHING off this website is ambitious at best. You're seeing the 5% extreme who are many and varied, but more often than not jaded or angry at a percieved misgiving.

So I wish you good luck with managing the airline lifestyle- you can do it!

Nov

[ab33t]

Yep I had AIDS , the Mr's did not like me being on "Holiday" all the time while she was stuck at home.

[eocvictim]

My Mrs accussed me of sleeping with a hosty when I was flying freight??? :ugh:

[mattyj]

Just try doing something else besides flying for 6 months..by that time your missus will be offering sex to any airline that will hire you!!

[Horatio Leafblower]

In any rewarding career there are sacrifices to be made. Aviation is no different and when you get to the top of the tree you have a lot more say in what goes on with your lifestyle.

My brother-in-law is a property analyst for a top-5 investment bank and works 6 days/week from 8am to 8pm every week, and more (much more) through the reporting season.

Wife's brother-in-law is a partner in a large country accounting firm. He has it pretty good now, but to get there he had to prostitute himself working for a big firm in the city 12-14 hour days etc.

My sister is a Psychologist working for a major recruitment firm - she has been known to overnight in the office to keep the place running.

A person with a good work ethic can achieve anything they want BUT if the support and understanding isn't there at home it can place unnecesary hurdles in your way :=

For example, I know an extremely hard-working pilot but his wife's family... well, they never really had to work all that hard. She has no concept of why a bloke would need to spend 12 hours/day at work (he owns the business) and not 9-5. "You're the boss, you can decide when you go can't you?"

Gotta keep the big picture and the objective firmly in the front of your mind, - and hers.

Good luck :ok:

[bonvol]

I have missed more weddings, kids birthdays and christmas celebrations than I could count over the years.

Mrs just accepts it's part of the territory.

A lot of my peers wives can't handle it though and its stuffed up plenty of blokes careers and families, not to mention their finances when it all unravels.

[The Bunglerat]

Selflessness. Charity. Compassion. Placing the other person's happiness above your own. I'm no expert on how to maintain a happy marriage, irrespective of career. However - and admittedly at the risk of generalising - I think a lot of relationships fail because of a lack of the attributes mentioned above, by one or both parties involved.

I'm extremely lucky that my wife has these attributes by the bucketload. As for me, I'm still working on it. I can say this much: I don't know if I would have had the patience to stick around for so many years and put up with so much crap if the tables were turned. Thankfully, I don't have to consider that scenario. Or maybe I can just attribute it to my mother-in-law of all people (who would have thought?!?) who gave my wife this sage piece of advice just before we got married: if you love your husband, don't make him spend his life working in a miserable job just for the sake of paying the bills, as he'll only end up resenting you for it.

Furthermore, my wife and I, along with our children, are regular church-goers - whenever work permits me to be home on Sundays (which for some reason I manage to pull off quite regularly). Those who know me will have a good laugh that the Bunglerat would ever find himself playing for Team Jesus, but for us it's a natural aspect of our daily lives - as much as breathing air. We don't consider ourselves religious nuts, and we respect other peoples' beliefs enough to not shove it in anyone's faces. As such, I'm certainly not going to say anymore on the subject, except that when you live your life with the knowledge that this entire existence is just a temporary one, a slight detour along the way to something far greater and eternal in nature, well you don't get so hung up on the short-term, small-minded issues of money and career - especially one in aviation. As much as I've invested a significant portion of my life in being a pilot, I know I won't be lying on my deathbed wishing I'd spent more time in the cockpit. Being a pilot is just something I do, it's not who I am as a person - and my wife recognises that fact. So at the end of the day, we somehow manage to make it work.

[CaptCirrus]

After 12 years in the Navy my wife reckons that dealing with my flying roster is a piece of cake.

Plus she's always been very supportive!

[Horatio Leafblower]

What's "reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder (or is it in the eye of the man on the Clapham Omnibus?).

I don't think I nominated any of those scenarios as "reasonable" and to be putting those sorts of hours in as I near 40, with a couple of kids, is not something I aspire to :ouch:

...it's just that plenty of people do it.

I know a dozen guys my age (none of them pilots) who are living on the North Shore of Sydney in a $2m+ house, making bonuses of $200k every year, and never seeing their kids, which is one reason I live outside Sydney and shall do so forevermore :ok:

[Jabawocky]

My Mrs accussed me of sleeping with a hosty when I was flying freight??? :ugh:..............was this hostie inflated freight :E

Seems to me you can be in this same boat no matter what you do. Leafie seems to have summed it up pretty well. Aviation is not unique in this area.

[gobbledock]

Its good being a Manager, mon-fri, 0900-1600. Seems to be a lot of U/S lonely housewives out their for me to service !

[40Deg STH]

The Bunglerat

A very well written post. I have been commuting for 10 years back to Australia and my wife of 16 years and 2 young kids have been true inspiration and support to me throughout.
My wife always says, she never want me to be sitting in my chair in retirement and having regrets. Having now achieved my goals/dreams and having a secure well paid job which pays for great education for my children and a privilaged lifestyle for all the family, its now time for the commuting to cease and my family are moving to Hong Kong so we can now enjoy more time and travel together.
My wife has been an inspiration to me through the whole thing and I know I would not be here now if it was not for her support and love.
When we met 16 years ago, i was Captain on a regional airline, so she never married for money and just between us, was not for my "industrial looks either".
Seeing my fiends over the years, I have seen it takes a special wife to be an "Aviation " wife.
I'm very lucky, I have one and am hanging onto her while longer!!

Good luck

[Chief Wiggam]

Pharoah, from what I’ve seen, every flying job has money/lifestyle balance to it.

There will be many options out there in the near future. You and the Mrs just have to decide what option is most aligned with your needs.

I’ll give a few generalised examples from my view.

Firstly, I don’t think any one job is better than another. Just different.

I’ll start with Qantas.

Great Money (and is rightly the Industry benchmark) / International ops are tiring long term. Slow progression may lead to lack of career/job interest.

Jet *

Don’t know

VB

Money is getting better / Rosters don’t seem to be as bad as people think.

Jet Fly-in Fly-out Operators (mining sector)

Money is at the lower end (still comfortable though) / Rosters make up for it. Reserves during the week. Week nights at home. Weekends off.


Others feel free to correct me and/or fill in the blanks – but you get the idea.

A pilot in one airline may make twice as much as another, but may spend half the time at home.

Hope it helps – and remember, any option still beats sitting at a desk!

[Wally Mk2]

Easy simple free advice. DON'T get married in the first place if you love flying & if you have had yr 5 mins of fun & found yourself at the alter then sell her/him, Flying & marriage, like oil & water don't mix despite some here thinking it does. EBAY ya can sell anything on that................gotta love it!:ok:We live in such a fractured society these days aviation families just make up part of that, nothing unique about the flying game.
As has been said here many a time if it flies floats or F.... then rent it:ok:

Jokes aside though. Flying now is a single mans game I reckon. Would take a very special lady/man (depends on yr sexual orientation) to know/understand why we
fly & work for peanuts for a great deal of our working lives. I worked 3 jobs to support my family, flying was just one of them.

Wmk2

[Howard Hughes]

Doing just fine thanks, at work no more than eight days per fortnight (sometimes less)! Throw in a couple of night shifts which allow me to look after Hughes junior at least 2 days per week (and 2 days daycare), Mrs Hughes works almost full time (to bring home the bacon).

As shifts are only 8 hours (sometimes 7), even when I am working it doesn't seem like long! This leaves plenty of time for 'looking after the missus'...:O

There are plenty of jobs out there which allow you to manage work and family life, they just tend not to involve Airbus or Boeings!:ok:

[CirrusSR22T]

That's why I tell the ladies at Bars / Night clubs etc that I work in high speed composite tubing ! :E They seem to run a mile after that ! :{

[Carambar]

Would take a very special lady/man (depends on yr sexual orientation) to know/understand why we
fly

That is gold. I'm almost certain there are still female pilots out there...:ok:

[The_Pharoah]

Thanks for the posts all. Surely though..its not all doom and gloom.

[sandbusboy]

Howard Hughs suggests,
"There are plenty of jobs out there which allow you to manage work and family life, they just tend not to involve Airbus or Boeings"

I'm a Bus boy looking to downsize after 20+ years of airlines to find something more family friendly. Good a great Missus who has supported my career and have two young kids but its come the time she wants a hubby home more and the kids want a dad.
So need to find something "family friendly" on the East coast, prefer QLD,
Any suggestions?

[Metro man]

I've been a pilot for most of my working life, only two jobs since meeting the missus though.

1. Night freight, most weekends off, out and back during the night or day stops. No problems there, plenty of time at home. Even got to look after the kids during the day.

2. Low cost, out and back in one trip. About 14 days per month 8-12 hour duty period. Some unusual hours with early starts, late finishes and occasional all nighters, BUT I'm at home at some stage every day.

Long haul would be a different matter all together with days or weeks away and jet lag on the return. Haven't done it yet.:)

[ballistix71]

Personaly I think aviation isnt any different to any other job. Sure there are high divorce rates but there are also the successes when it comes to relationships. Perhaps the one thing I missed on previous posts was its all about 'Give and Take'. Marriages require work even when your not in the aviation industry.

Thankfully my wife is supportive of what I do, but that doesn't mean I get to ignore her either. She still wants her quality time (and the nice presents) and so she should. I always flew because I had a passion for it. I've told the wife I'd give it up for her, but she knows that it would tear my heart out and has told me in no uncertain terms she wouldn't let it happen. Something I that just strengthens my relationship further. Besides she also wants to give up full time work soon and is pushing for me to get a better paying RPT job *lol*

PS: Not having young kids also helps (got a 16yr old step daughter and 2o yr old step son)

[Mstr Caution]

After reading events in the press over the last week.

5 Mobile phones........that's gotta be a record. :=

[Wally Mk2]

geeeeeeeeeez "HH" what drugs are you on? I want a pound of whatever it is!:ok:
Don't tell the rat race here about our 'retirement' job will ya buddy they'll all want to come work for the Dr's & retire early:-) Was good once, the job will go to pot in the near future, still I can't complain had the best years of my flying with the Dr's. trouble is is there life after the Dr's? Hopefully:-(

"The_Ph" no it's not all doom & gloom but if you can keep woman (women as an Eg) & planes as far apart as possible then the world is yours!:ok:

Wmk2

[rcoight]

Crikey, I would have thought that missing one's neice / nephew / friend's son / daughter's birthday would have been a GOOD thing...

But, hey, that's just me...


:ok:

Seriously, I wonder if this is the kind of thing that pilots forget when they chase the "bigger is better" mentality.

I've seen quite a few of my contemporaries regret their decision to go for the bigger aircraft / airlines at the expense of lifestyle.


Call me strange, but I'd rather go home each night and spend time with my wife, good friends, and family and maybe earn a few k less than those who live out of their suitcases and don't know where they'll be next month just for a few k extra per year.

I work so I can have my lifestyle, rather than live for my work...

What is lifestyle worth?

:confused:

[The_Pharoah]

I agree with the comments earlier re hours spent furthering your career. Being a career accountant up till now, I've also done the 'hard yards' ie. working 80 hr weeks and then working the weekend, lots of stress, hardly see the family, etc and thats just working in the city doing a job I dislike. But like any career path, there's always those who live to work rather than work to live.

From the comments received, I think the underlying theme is that whilst aviation can be tough esp on LH, there are upsides to it but at the end of the day, if you don't take care of the relationship with the Mrs/Family it'll end no matter what industry you're in.

Its the old adage...it is what you make it

[Metro man]

Call me strange, but I'd rather go home each night and spend time with my wife, good friends, and family and maybe earn a few k less than those who live out of their suitcases and don't know where they'll be next month just for a few k extra per year.


Actually the $$$ can be considerably better, and with childrens education, mortgage, retirement to plan for, those golden handcuffs are quite strong. Once you double your income it's difficult to go back.

[aileron_69]

Well if some of you guys are finding it hard to balance a family when u are away for a few days and even a whole week at a time I suspect there isnt much hope for me flying survey and being away 8-12 weeks straight is there?:ugh:

[multime]

I work typically 6 weeks on 2 off, but this rarley happens, as shifts are extended. No complaints i love the work.
I met my partner after a 3 month dog baiting contract and didn,t see her again for 4 mths. 14 years later i,m very greatfull she put up with me as kids are out of the question. Some shifts extend to 17 weeks which do push the boundarys.
It doses come down to your partners understanding of what we do. Alot of phone calls and skype catchup to refresh the memorys.
And yes aileron it is survey.
Love it
M

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Are there any aviation husbands out there? Or is it just assumed that the "Missus" has to stay home?

My hubby does FIFO and I haven't had a weekend off in about 12 years. Never understood why some days of the week are supposed to be more "special" than others?

[Yak_slapper]

Im away from home a fair bit. But i think myself lucky when the military guys are away for 6 months at a time. Dad comes home and the kids suffer from stranger danger for the first few days.

YS

[compressor stall]

I've had one Xmas with my wife in 7 years. But we look at the 24/7 time at other times of the year that we do get to spend together and with my baby boys and realise that that is far more important.

My wife finds it easier when I go away for 2 months as she can plan and psyche herself up for it and gets into a routine. It's the random four day trips here and there that end up being more unsettling.

She's very understanding, knows how much I love my job and does not try and stop me from pursing it.

[Wally Mk2]

Hey "CS" ya wife ain't gotta a sister by chance has she? She can't be real, women don't love us guys that much sheeeez:} I think I'll play Santa next year:}
Yr one lucky SOB:ok:

"CFI" would be good to get a female perspective on this subject seeing as it's still a male dominated industry:) We had a guy at work where he was the Mr Mom & left to do it full time (look after the rug rats) for a while, whilst his 'trouble & strife' earnt the big bucks.
Shift work period isn't healthy I reckon killed my ,marriage stone dead, never again not even if "CS" does have a free sister in-law:)


Wmk2

[Lodown]

How do I do it?

All the benefits of extra pay in the airlines buys a better class of divorce lawyer for the other half...if that's possible.

[bonvol]

Be interesting to do a poll of all those who have done longhaul for a long time and see who is still married to wife 1.

Anecdotally the percentage would not be high.