MoD civil servants waste money - official

[airborne_artist]

I'm helping out a military-based charity who have an office on a N Oxfordshire MoD site. The site is being emptied prior to disposal, and in the car park is a huge skip with the contents of MoD civil servants' offices.

I could see some little-used files etc, so I hopped in to grab a few for the domestic boss. While choosing ones that would meet her high standards I found two pro outdoor sodium lamps (boxed, unused, rrp £120 ea) and a laser colour toner cartridge (boxed, unused, rrp £235).

I realise this is the tip of the proverbial, but has no-one any common sense?

[peppermint_jam]

Only a couple of lamps and a toner cart, sounds like someone has already nicked all the goor stuff! :}

[Pontius Navigator]

A_A, the short answer is no.

Many years ago I furnished my house with lots of surplus (old-style) furniture at about £20 a pop with a mahogony quarters desk at £80. Kinloss used to put these into the local auction with about 5 pieces per week and make IRO £100-150. Where the money went I know not but probably the COs Fund.

This was the most efficient way of clearing old stuff and also a good PR exercise for the local B&Bs that were furnished to MOD MQ standards. The cost of shipping the stuff south to Sterling was uneconomic.

This was then stopped and the regional auctions were set up. The stuff was then shipped down to Sterling, bought by the auction house, and shiped back.

Then a few years ago RAMCO, amongst others, were given contracts to dispose of stuff. It still belongs to the MOD but they flog it on eBay or direct. On one occasion I bought a paint locker for £35 as Stores could not supply a new one (cost £495). The man said, you own it anyway.

Your lamps and toner simply uneconomic to ship to a disposal firm.

:mad:

[tucumseh]

MoD civil servants waste money - official
Of course they do. Refusing an order to knowingly waste money is an offence, but issuing the order is not. Bill Rammell has been kind enough to confirm this, in writing, within the last 2 weeks. In doing so, he merely repeated the words of his 4 predecessors (Ainsworth, Ingram, Moonie and Caplin). :mad:

[Helol]

To add some balance to this, where I work, the JNCO throws perfectly good A4 folders/files etc in the bin, I take them out and re-use them.

I had to replace my 'phone when I first started work for reasons I can't recall. I was told to 'throw the old one in the bin'. Hey ho.

I am the only civvie amongst 20 J/SNCOs. And that's 'official'.

[gijoe]

Where I work they usually do it between 0830 and 1630 for 37 hours per week in the form of being paid.

G of Abbey Wood for another couple of months :ok:

[Herc-u-lease]

It's not just civil servants that waste money, as Helol noted, blue suiters can be just as bad. Of course not all civvies and not all blue suits waste money. The thing that grips me is that on another thread some people think closing BBMF for the sake of £3m a year will magically save the MoD from its financial woe. There is grotesque waste across all public service - airborne artist merely found one notable example.

Red Arrows, BBMF are all high profile and easy targets. Changing the culture of how we operate will yield savings over and above the tiny percentage of the defence budget these actually consume (BBMF <0.01% - good VFM in my opinion):ok:

H

[ShyTorque]

I sat in on quite a few RAF Courts Martial as a junior officer on my first tour; we all did as there was an ongoing problem of theft / misappropriation on a certain station.

A certain RAF Regiment NCO on said station was accused of theft. He allegedly went to a local scrapyard with the contents of a 4 ton truck. His defence was that he had been to sign out a truck and the one he chose was already full of "stuff", which he apparently was then told to "just get rid of" by the duty MT staff. He allegedly drove it to the scrappy and made a few bob out of it.

Unfortunately, the Board of Inquiry hadn't fully finished with the contents; it was parts of a recently crashed helicopter.

It came to light when a passing engineering officer spotted a military helicopter pilot's seat hanging from a tree, being used as a child's swing!

[Wensleydale]

Not just the Brits either!

At a deployed base somewhere warm, we appropriated several items for our deployed FOB from the USAF dump. These included many thrown out "broken" computers - a couple of serviceable ones were built from the parts to suppliment our planning kit (unclassified of course).

[Pontius Navigator]

WD, you have probably foiled a complex plan by the Cousins to get computers to the Talibs. :cool:

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Anything to do with Defence wastes money. That's why the Treasury hates BritMil plc.

All those bombs and bullets that could have been in Stores, but ... Oh no, the Military have to use them. And then they keep using fuel [OMG, so much fuel]. And the wear and tear on vehicles and aircraft - truly shocking. It's clearly time for a large meeting, with much note-taking and extravagant presentations, to make the military chappies realise that economy is the order of the day.


Is that my limo? Excuse me, must dash, important luncheon appointment.

[TurbineTooHot]

Following on from Two Tone,

Has anybody else noticed that purchasing anything for "Defence" is like buying something for a "Wedding."

Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.

:ugh: Terribly frustrating.

[Landroger]

Has anybody else noticed that purchasing anything for "Defence" is like buying something for a "Wedding."

Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.

:ugh: Terribly frustrating.

Very astute observation TurbineTooHot. :ok: You might also add to that list anything bought from a 'Ships Chandlers' or a boat yard. :uhoh: I was working - for interest, not profit! - on a motor launch and wanted to replace the rubbing strip with something smaller and neater. The local boatyard wanted about £2/foot, but the industrial safety supplier near me would roll it out at £2/yard. :rolleyes:

Roger.

[Aerouk]

I was told a story recently of a dept that decided to buy around 100 brand new chairs for the staff until the head boss came in and decided to bin the chairs because they were blue instead of black.

[Chugalug2]

AA:
MoD civil servants waste money - official
Would that were all. Read the Hercules, Nimrod and Chinook Accident threads:
The MOD wastes lives - fact!

[tucumseh]

decided to bin the chairs because they were blue instead of black.

Yes, a prime example. They really should have known that Black is the Colour.

However, I have greater sympathy with other less obvious examples of "waste". For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit.

The RAF need more of his kind. Stand your ground and ignore those ****** civvies - what do they know about RAF aircraft anyway.

Unfortunately, he was thwarted as the company refused to waste their time supplying a quote; which brought a reprimand from said Officer to the Board. Bloody contractors, what do they know.

[larssnowpharter]

For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit.

Must be related to the One star I was showing around in the '70s who, upon seeing a Jaguar in a hangar on a Phantom station, said:

That's a small Phantom!

I kid you not!

[Jabba_TG12]

"However, I have greater sympathy with other less obvious examples of "waste". For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit."


Please tell me thats a wind up....:sad: a bloody Group Captain??? :(

Can he be named and shamed or is he infamous enough already?

[tucumseh]

Please tell me thats a wind up....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif a bloody Group Captain??? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gifNot a wind up.

A meeting was even convened on 30.5.96 in SY313 to discuss the general issue (RAF suppliers mis-managing stock / disposing of new stock knowing it was about to be fitted to aircraft undergoing conversion etc). He refused to turn up unless the chair was of the same equivalent rank. A civvy Asst Director did the business - unheard of in my experience. The minutes show 5 other officers (Wg Cdr, Cdr and 3 x Lt Cdr) were present. None stood up to the Gp Capt (the civvies did but he refused to speak to them) except the most junior Lt Cdr, who insisted the minutes record his scepticism about what the Gp Capt was saying. (That's being polite). That young officer got an MBE recently; good on you Nick.

Anyway, the upshot was a 4 year delay to an aircraft upgrade programme. To this day, I'm not sure the IPT or Users realise the kit was ready on time, but the suppliers got rid of it before it could be fitted. They probably blame the project office for the delay. The C130 sonar bit was a minor, hilarious aside because, as I said, we told the company not to quote, so avoiding that waste. The programme and the subject (deliberate waste) was later on the PAC hitlist and the subject of two very critical reports; both widely ignored by MoD.

Sorry, I get annoyed when I read the BBMF may be canned for the want of £3M. Generating £3M per year by avoiding waste, while maintaining capability, is a 5 minute job. Someone should get off their bum and write a short Business Case proposing such a genuine saving, with funds to be transferred to BBMF. I did make such a suggestion (implement the recommendations of the above reports, which is mandated policy anyway) but was told to wind my neck in by our 2 Star.

No, you couldn't make it up. :mad:

[Dundiggin']

The same guy, sometime later became a storebasher at the same station....he decided to 'invest' in a new business by 'purloining' flying kit from the stores by signing ie forging aircrew signatures in various Flying Clothing Books and the daily issue sheets (?) eventually building a good range of stock which he decided to sell at the RAF St Mawgan Open Day where he was spotted (sic - he was very spotty!) by the Feds. This led to closure of the stores at the secret helicopter base in Hampshire and the Feds went through every Flying Clothing Book, checking signatures with the aircrew, checking the whereabouts of three pairs of aircrew specs, four pairs of flying boots, five flying suits, fifteen pairs of flying gloves etc etc. Aircrew who said they 'Gave them to someone who dug their trench at the latest taceval' or had given them to the groundcrew cos they were 'good blokes' etc were listed and Unit Inquiries were held whereupon some 47 (I think) aircrew persons were found likely to be Court Martialled!!:\

Luckily the authorities thought better of it.

Anyone who was about at the time will probably recall the unusual attention as to what the gate guards were wearing on guard duty and where did they get them from ie flying gloves, flying polo neck shirts and flying boots!

I don't know what punishment this guy received for this thievery, but several months later I saw him enter the camp driving a Council skip lorry! Perhaps he was going for the big one! :E

[NutLoose]

Said bloke then tried to take the SWO out with said truck and was banned from the Station.

Though I thought he was driving for BR Parcels after leaving and undelivered items were signed for and found at his home?????

Ahh the Great Stores Robbery, the plonkers had put the hasp and clasp on the clothing stores internal door the wrong way round allowing one to simply unscrew it from the wall I believe, you couldn't knock them for enterprise, I remember the witch hunt that went on afterwards for ages. Some Aircrew had signed for clothing on Christmas day, such was their keeness to work :}

[4mastacker]

Dundiggin

He got 3 and a half years for burglary and his two mates went to Colchester for an extended stay! I was escort at their Summary of Evidence and it did indeed make interesting listening - especially when the names were read out from "Herbert's" little black book. It started with the LAC's and worked upwards. ISTR the officer taking the Summary called an admin break when the ranks reached ..shall we say?...exec level, and resumed with a different line of questioning. I do recall that afterwards everyone ensured that they were kitted exactly to scale...not even an extra pair of socks,black, knitted, airmen was to be found!

NutLoose,

It wasn't the hasp on the wrong way, "Herbert" had managed to get hold of a Yale key for the outside door. One of the reasons why it took quite some time before "Herbert's" activities were uncovered was because there were increasing stock deficiencies but no evidence of break-in. And it wasn't only aircrew signing for stuff on Xmas day....apparently Wessex ASF were using shed loads of Evostick, Bostick and Araldite the same day and ESG were cleaned out of U2 batteries. The saga with BR Parcels (aka Lynx ( see the aviation link??) Express) allegedley involved some of the R&D stackers and the Aldershot depot.

[Dundiggin']

Many thanks for that - they should have hung the bastard! But at least it gave us a few laughs....