R-44 missing in Norway Jan 2010

[GenuineHoverBug]

An R-44 with 4 POB is reported to have crashed into the sea outside the town of Horten on the southern coast of Norway at about 13.20 this afternoon. It was in company with another helicopter when it crashed. There was ice on the fjord, but the helicopter appears to have sunk quickly.

So far there is no report of any survivors.

[M609]

Divers have located the aitcraft, no news about the occupants. It's going to be 4 fatals by the looks of things :(

[Winnie]

Unfortunately, Norwegian papers are now reporting that the wreckage has been located at 15 meters deep, with 4 deceased in the wreck.

Sad news, and not what we needed to hear...

[toptobottom]

A bit more here (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/01/27/12635151-ap.html).

Helicopter crashes through ice in Oslo fjord

By Ian MacDougall, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeGlobalnav/invisible.gif

OSLO, Norway — A civilian helicopter with four Norwegians on board crashed into iced-over water in the Oslo fjord off southeastern Norway on Wednesday and divers searched for survivors, rescue workers said.
The helicopter went down in foggy afternoon weather 500 feet (150 metres) off Horten, a town an hour south of Oslo, Norway Central Rescue spokesman Einar Knudsen said.
Knudsen said divers had not yet found the wreckage of the helicopter and, though hampered by murky water and strong undercurrents, were still “searching for survivors.”
However, he acknowledged that the helicopter was “probably“ resting on the sea floor in 39 F (4 C) water about 66 feet (20 metres) deep.
An unnamed Norwegian company had hired two Robinson R44 model helicopters owned by Midtnorsk Helicopter Service to ferry five employees from Tonsberg 60 miles (100 kilometres) north to Oslo when one went down, Midtnorsk spokesman John-Erik Sogn said.
The pilot of the second helicopter, which landed safely in Horten, saw “the other one suddenly started to spin in mid-air — at 800 feet (240 metres) above the water — before it went down,” Sogn told The Associated Press.
He said that Midtnorsk, which operates sightseeing trips and charter flights in Norway, services its helicopters after every 50 hours in the air and that the company has never experienced a crash like this before.
While it’s unclear what caused the accident, “there’s no reason to believe that this was caused by a defect” in the helicopter, Sogn said.
According to Norway’s Accident Investigation Board, there have been nine accidents in Norway involving the Robinson R44 helicopter since 1998, none of them fatal.


Given the eye witness statement in that report, I don't understand this bit: "While it’s unclear what caused the accident, “there’s no reason to believe that this was caused by a defect" in the helicopter...".

RIP

[charlieDontSurf]

There seems to have been some sort of problem with the helicopter.

The pilot made a distress-or urgencycall to Rygge Tower just before the crash.
The last GPS-log recieved from the helicopter showed a speed of 174km/hrs, so they weren't hovering in the fog. Although it was quite foggy here...

RIP.

[GenuineHoverBug]

The names of the victims are published here: Alle fire omkom - Nyheter - Innenriks - Aftenposten.no (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3488485.ece).
(The article is in norwegian) It also has a short videoclip that indicates the conditions in the area.

One additional piece of information that have come out via ATS is that it seems there may have been a radio transmission from the helicopter just before it crashed. No hint of the content of this has been released.

[Low Flier]

The helicopter went down in foggy afternoon weather 500 feet (150 metres) off Horten

That says it.
:sad:

[sabreliner]

Is it me or are there just too many accidents and incidents involving this aircraft. I know of course its a very widely used machine, in particular the R22. Although a fixed wing man with no real negative issues regarding helicopters in general (having flown in various military types over the years) I would nevertheless have to be honest and say that I would feel a tad uncomfortable about the prospect of a flight in a R22 or the 44.

[4ftHover]

Flown correctly in the correct conditions both are very capable aircraft.

[IntheTin]

Quote:
The helicopter went down in foggy afternoon weather 500 feet (150 metres) off Horten
That says it.

No need for an investigation then eh!! :hmm:

4ftHover.

Well said....:ok:

[GenuineHoverBug]

The main part of the helicopter now seems to have been salvaged. A picture here: Helikopteret er hevet - nyheter - Dagbladet.no (http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/01/28/nyheter/innenriks/helikopterulykke/10136285/)

The 4 victims were recovered earlier, sometime during the night.

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101375/10137583/jpg/active/960x.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101374/10137490/jpg/active/320x.jpg

[toptobottom]

Point taken re IMC (if indeed he was IMC), but if... The pilot of the second helicopter, which landed safely in Horten, saw “the other one suddenly started to spin in mid-air ...it can't have been that bad or it wouldn't have been seen :confused:? I wouldn't necessarily jump to the same conclusion that the report did; if the witness report is accurate, it sounds as though it could have been a defect. Or maybe I'm just trying to give the pilot the benefit of the doubt until the investigation is complete...

TTB

[rotorrookie]

Quote:
The helicopter went down in foggy afternoon weather 500 feet (150 metres) off Horten
That says it.

No need for an investigation then eh!!

4ftHover.

Well said....

IntheThin..WTF:ugh::=

[GenuineHoverBug]

The AIB Norway is quoted as saying that there was no fog in the area when the accident happened.

It is also said that they have interviewed the pilot and also have other information regarding the final phase of the flight. The content of this is withheld for the moment to avoid speculation.

[IntheTin]

Rotorrookie.


Your point is? Please explain the 'WTF'

My post was quoted from lowflier. Making an assumption that the aircraft crashed due to the foggy weather isn't cool.

If the 'WTF' that you posted is for my approving of 4fthover's post then again, your point is?

[GenuineHoverBug]

Some more, detailed pictures of the wreckage are available here: Smadret helikopter sendes til havarikommisjonen - nyheter - Dagbladet.no (http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/01/28/nyheter/helikopterstyrt/innenriks/10140817/)

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101437/10143754/jpg/active/960x.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101439/10143978/jpg/active/503x.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101437/10143703/jpg/active/320x.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101434/10143448/jpg/active/320x.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/101/101436/10143603/jpg/active/320x.jpg

[rotorrookie]

I was just trying to figure out this" no need for an investigation" comment of yours and this claim about "foggy weather".....
I thought that many of you where jumping at the "bad wx/pilot error" conclusion, which is too often shouted out here when tragic like this one happens.
maybe you where not with your comment and I misunderstood it.
but according to the other pilot the helicopter started spinning in mid air,
first thought from that is mechanical failure.

[IntheTin]

If you took the time to read the previous posts, you would have seen the comment that I quoted, posted by 'Low Flier' and should have realised that I was being sarcastic! :hmm:

[Trans Lift]

Have they released the name of the pilot yet?

[GenuineHoverBug]

The names of the victims were released last night and are mentioned in the articles linked to above, but may be easier to find here: Alle fire omkomne hentet opp - Nyheter - Innenriks - Aftenposten.no (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3488485.ece)

[toptobottom]

I am not in the AIB, but I'd say the majority of the tail boom in those piccies looks largely undamaged, save (obviously) the end which looks as though it's been chopped by the MR? Might that explain the 'sudden spinning'..?

[Nubian]

Knowing which way the Robinson rotors are spinning and the damages on the tailboom, it looks to me as one of the blades has severed the t/b and the stinger (looks as a clean cut) There is a fairly large dent/buckle on the starboard side right at the front of the t/b, that appears as the tail has been pushed toward the starboard side.
There is also very notably damage on one of the blades on the pictures.

Surely, if this would be the case, then I am in no doubt the rest of the helicopter would start to spin like the witnesses/pax/pilot have stated.

As for what caused it to happen, I'll keep my theory for myself at this stage, and leave it up to the local AIB to conclude.

Sabreliner,

Just do a quick search on any AIB/NTSB site, and see how many 737's that has crashed and ask yourself if you feel "a tad uncomfortable" riding in on?! Obviously, you would argue why the 737 is safe (as there are so many build, and accidents per pax-miles is therefore so great. Can also check the good ol' Cessna 172, and see how many accidents you come up with, same thing. There are a good number of accidents with these Robinsons, that are not related to the machine, ie. flying into powerlines etc. which can happen in any helicopter/fixedwing, but they do tally up towards the type of aircraft which is not a correct picture in my opinion.

[GenuineHoverBug]

It was reported on the news last night that the AIB so far has not found any technical problem with the helicopter.

It was said earlier that virtually all of the helicopter has been recovered from the seabed and is being examined in their facilities.

[GenuineHoverBug]

A preliminary report is out today on this accident. AIB Norways Preliminary report 2010/03P (english version) (http://www.aibn.no/aviation/reports/2010-03p-eng)

[ReverseFlight]

The report specifically states that the R44 was over MTOW, nose-heavy and the performance margins for HOGE at 700' were limited. IMHO in extracting the power margin by raising collective, the blades could have overpitched, losing rrpm and resulting in the tail boom chop. Without the tail rotor, the chopper went into LTE with a nose down attitude, accentuated by the forward-loaded CG and lack of tail rotor hub weight. Just a theory, as many Robbies have perished in a similar fashion.

RIP to those on board.

[Winnie]

But reading the report there is no statement of a "tail boom chop"...

They were lacking in Power, Heavy, CG out in front, and relatively inexperienced pilot, with fog around, but not in fog at the time of the incident.

Pilot may just have gotten himself too far into the stuff, and not been quick enough to recover when things went pearshaped. HOWEVER, this was only a prelim report, and we have to wait until the final report is out.

Sorry for the loss of life...

H.