My adventure in the Top End

[Krazy]

In the spirit of Kash360's thread (http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/398077-maun-namibia-zambia-then.html), I thought I would blog here about my upcoming job hunt rather than my usual travel blog spot. If it helps others out (people who were in my boots up to a week ago), then great. If you don't like it - then feel free to tell me to blog somewhere else!

Anyway, after many many months of oohing and aahhing, I finally made a last minute decision to 'go for it'. I am a career changer. I have had good desk jobs in the past and have a new job lined up for the near future (having quit my last job last year). But, after many years of flying privately, and finally doing my CPL last year, I can't hold off any more. If I never give it a go, I'll never know. I have tried everything short of going to the Top End to get a job, but have realised, it just ain't gonna happen unless I'm there in person. The hard part is, it's so different to what I'm used to in the 'normal' professional world. But, when in Rome....

So, after sleeping on it last night, I bought my ticket this morning to Darwin. I leave tomorrow morning. I'm all packed - I hope - and roaring to go. I have lists and lists of companies to go visit and people to meet. Many of whom I've spoken to on the phone. I've also been fortunate enough that I have been put in touch (by people on here and elsewhere) with various people in the industry (from line pilots, to CPs, to pilots doing way cool stuff that I'm still to new to even dream of right now). So, the adventure begins.

I haven't given up my upcoming job yet. It's hard to let go of such a great safety net when you're a fully grown adult! Thankfully, I've got a bit of time before things have to be finalised.

So - if you are in Darwin, Jabiru, Kununurra, Wyndham, Broome, etc. etc. and are up for a drink, let me know!

Given that I've never been to the Top End before even as a tourist, I'm looking forward to this. Even if I get nowhere in terms of getting a job, I'm looking forward to the adventure!

First step: organise a car for myself in Darwin (to those who suggested I drive up - I wish I could - but time isn't on my side).

[tinpis]

First thing ya gonna need is an umbrella

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/IDR633.gif

Cars
Ask where the roadside car markets are ( corner of Totem and Bagot on Sat-sun is one)
If you are insane check the dealers

[The Green Goblin]

Yeah it's pissing down right now, going to be an interesting fright today!

[Di_Vosh]

You may also want to check the notice boards on the Backpackers, as some of the travellers are selling up before going back O/S.

Also, ask to check the notice boards at the Charter companies.

DIVOSH!

[jezzaa]

Hey Krazy,

Keep us all updated on how you go. I hope to be doing the same thing in a years time once I finish my CPL.

I also will be doing the career change thing and leaving the safety of a well paid job (Why do we do it? :)). Hhopefully, I shouldn't have a problem getting a job in my current profession (I.T.) until I get that first elusive Pilot Job.

Anyway good luck and all the best up there!

[tinpis]

Elusive pilot jobs may cause illness :hmm:

[onetrack]

You won't find too many good, cheap set of wheels in Darwin. You WILL find a lot of very high km vans and old Falcon wagons, etc, that have belonged to backpackers, and that they now want to quit, because they've finished with them. Sometimes you can get a bargain if you catch them as they are getting ready to leave. Remember that waving a few notes in cash works wonders. If you do a deal, and need to go get more $$'s or a bank cheque, remember to seal the deal with $50 or $100 deposit - or it might be gone by the time you get back.

Gumtree is pretty good for sussing out stuff - there's a 1994 Camry there with a few dents for $400. You can't kill that model Camry, and if you ain't fussed about appearances, it will get you around, until you find something better.

Used Cars in Darwin - Gumtree Free Classifieds - 1 (http://darwin.gumtree.com.au/f-Cars-Vehicles-Motorbikes-Parts-W0QQCatIdZ9299)

[Krazy]

Well, after being annoyed beyond all belief by QANTAS trying to get over to Darwin, I finally arrived 5 hours after planned and the humidity hit me smack in the face (as expected). First time here and I already like the city.

I organised myself a car today. Thanks for all those suggestions. In the end I bought a nice and girly Toyota Echo from a private seller. I decided the key features required were mechanical stability (ie., good servicing and no issues) and functioning aircon. This did the trick quite nicely.

I also popped out to the airport to meet some of the operators there. I found people overall to be quite friendly and willing to have a chat and give suggestions. However, nothing here seems particularly promising. I either fall well below the minimum requirements as a fresh CPL, or I am just one the dozens of people/CVs (many of whom have 5 times the experience I do). Still, you never know your luck in a new city! I did get the impression that due to the GFC and severe pilot surplus of late, many organisations have raised their minimum requirements because they can. That sucks. But hey, what can you do?

Anyway, I wasn't expecting much out of Darwin, it was just a convenient starting point. Tomorrow I head to Jabiru to make contact with the people I have spoken to on the phone. Again, Jabiru doesn't sound like it will be promising by any means, but since it is not too far away, and in an area of the country I'd like to see anyway, I'm going to stop by.

I am getting the impression that the 'popular' places already have dozens of pilots in wait. I also have the feeling that to get a job in these places, I would have to sit and wait potentially for a year. And I don't mean sit and wait while I do something else (like continue working in my professional capacity), but sit in town and do work which is unrelated to my profession. The downside of this is that I would be risking distancing myself more and more from my 'old' profession without any assurance of ever working in my 'new' profession....

Anyway, time to check out Darwin at night!

[multime]

Someone give this bloke a job. Please.!
And yes Tin you are a silly old git. But a funny one.
Cheers M:ok:

[multime]

While in Jabiru might be worth giving the cowboys over the East Alligator a call ?.
Gunbalanya, at Oenpelli.?
Goodluck.
Just a thought.
M

[Krazy]

OK - I don't get tin's comment. Maybe I'm too much of a newbie - but there is obviously something funny in it...

And re: Gunbalanya - already had a chat, and plan on another chat when I am literally around the corner....

[Howard Hughes]

If you are going to get a job in the NT, Jabiru/Oenpelli is the place!:ok:

[Tempo]

Well, after being annoyed beyond all belief by QANTAS trying to get over to Darwin

As you are about to find out when looking for that first job.....very rarely do things go to plan. A 5 hour delay is probably not the most disappointing thing you are going to have to endure in your search for work.

[Krazy]

Well, thankfully the Echo performs very well - even at 130km/h! After feeling like I was back in the 80's where an overnight storm cuts off electricity to a major city for 6 hours, I made my way over to Kakadu NP. It's beautiful here!

Unfortunately the CPs I want to talk to aren't around today, so will stay in town for a couple of nights at probably one of the more expensive places I'll be staying at this trip, and hopefully catch up with them tomorrow and/or Monday. In the mean time, I plan to make the most of my time here and be a bit of a tourist tomorrow. Looks like there are some good short hikes around.

Thanks for the PMs full of suggestions and hints - keep 'em coming :-)

[multime]

WORK.?
Forget about flying, they want to see dedication and committment, re Ice Pilots and the poor bastard rampy loading frieght for six months. Its entry level stuff.
Poor wages, hot hard work. Especially in Arheimland in the wet.
To be honest the Chief pilik doesn,t want to be there either.
M:ok:

[hueyshuffle]

yep, I second WannabeQF. how do you approach these guys? They've heard it all before and how do you ask for a job or even ask for their time to talk about employment?

[slice]

Though you were desparate to be a flight attendant Wannabe?:confused:

[Howard Hughes]

im interested to know how you approach a CP and ask for a job?
There is no answer to that! What works with one CP might not work with another due to differences in personalities', or even what sort of day they are having.

It's all a numbers game, the more people you ask, the more likely it is someone will say YES!:ok:

Up until a couple of years ago I had every 'thanks, but no thanks' letter that I had received, I had over 200.:eek: That doesn't include those who didn't reply and those I met face to face. So you see, ask the question enough times and someone will eventually say YES!

The good news is, once you get your first yes, it's easier from there!;)

[frigatebird]

HH
'The good news is, once you get your first yes, it's easier from there!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif'

Until you don't fit the profile because you have 'Too Much',
or 'Wrong Types' - Requires Training,
or you're too 'Old' !!!
(or any other reason that comes to mind when people aren't needed right this instant...)



Anyway young fella, keep at it, its character building as the other African thread proves yet again. This is what sorts out the 'Really Wannabees' from the 'Maybe Wannabees' . A screening procedure.
(then again - some Daddy's will influence their offspring into a position without the drama and starvation).

[Krazy]

Well, today was a day of being a tourist. It's great up here. The landscape is beautiful and coming from drought country, it's amazing seeing so much water everywhere. Just fantastic! No progress on the work front though. However, to answer a question which a couple of people have asked - how do I approach the CP?

Well, I am taking my skills and knowledge from the old world (ie., that of my previous profession) and trying to apply it here. Firstly, let me say that going in to an operator's office is a bit like asking a girl out on a first date. I'm talking about the adrenalin rush part of it. Given the circumstances you pretty much expect to get no where, but you are going to try your hardest, put on a brave smile, and do your best to show them what you're made of.

My view is that you have to come across as yourself, as the person you really are. There is no point ever getting a job on false pretences as it won't last very long, and it will do more harm than good in the long run. So I act myself.

The other thing I try to do is differentiate myself from the crowd. Firstly, age. I think a little extra age can be seen as a good thing and a bad thing. So naturally I try to emphasise the good side of my age. Together with that I can show that I'm different because I have other knowledge and experience to draw on. Anyone coming from another career will know what I mean. Whilst, for example, being an accountant doesn't give you flying experience, you can use it as a selling point as any small business does book-keeping, BAS's, etc. Not saying that you would do all those things, but for a business to have skills and knowledge in-house is always helpful. The same applies to most professions. Lastly, any flying skills I have which may be different to the standard I try to bring in. I'm a low timer (like many), but I do have time in a C210. Whilst talking about this hasn't got me a job yet, I think it brings me a tiny bit closer.

In the end, I also know CPs are busy people and probably do get harassed a lot. I try to not waste their time, and try to read their body language. When you show up - the pilots and CP know immediately why you are there. So I don't believe there is any point wasting their time talking about other rubbish first. By all means, I am not saying don't be friendly, just be weary of their time.

All this being said - not sure if anyone really should take my advice since I don't have a flying job [yet]!!!

[The Green Goblin]

My biggest advice to you is to keep your identity anonymous on here. It will not be too hard to work out who you are judging by your car, your age and previous occupation. When starting out the industry seems vast, in actual fact it is very small and after a few seasons you will know almost one guy in every company in Australia as people move on.

While pprune is a great resource, operators despise it as quite often their businesses are put through the wringer on here, sometimes founded, sometimes unfounded.

Most Pilots in the industry have heard of pprune, many read yet don't contribute and others keep away from it. Only a small percentage of the guys on here who contribute represent the amount of guys who read it.

Don't mention the 'p' word to an employer, don't let them ever work out who you are. Don't mention dates, things that have happened to you, etc etc etc. Always speak in a general round about way.

Sometimes your views/opinions can be misused or taken out of context and used by people who seek to overtake/under cut or have an agenda against you for their own reasons. For as many great people in the industry there is just as many who are not.

Good luck and enjoy your journey. The topend is a wonderful place to be.

[Krazy]

Thanks for the advice GG. I figured those who are reading this and meeting me would have no problem working things out. In the end though, I am careful with what I say here. My intention is really just to document my experiences and hopefully help out others like me down the track.

Sure, I hope no operators take anything I say out of context. I reckon it would be a damn hard job to take anything I've said so far out of context, but I guess anything can happen! Thanks for the advice!

I guess I shouldn't disclose on here that I'm a tall, blonde female. Now no-one will be able to figure out who I am! :-p

[Howard Hughes]

I guess I shouldn't disclose on here that I'm a tall, blonde female.
You shouldn't have any problem getting employment then!:E

Seriously though everybody reads PPRuNe, but most aren't willing to admit they post. If you follow a simple rule and don't write anything you wouldn't say to someones face then you shouldn't have a problem!:ok:

Many on here know who I am!;)

[Krazy]

Many on here know who I am!

Although, I guess the difference is, you already have a job in the industry!

[Krazy]

Well, I left A and am now at B. Again, great place. If nothing else, I'm loving discovering this part of the country!

Again, have come across some really helpful people here, with pointers and advice about who to contact and try. Unfortunately, they're nearly all people/places I have contacted (or am on my way to see). I really am discovering how small the industry is....

Anyway, it's been useful and shortly I am off to C. I'm not expecting much and therefore do not have my hopes high. But you never know - and if anything, it's just on the road to more places!

I have heard from a couple of operators that having a instrument rating would be helpful up here. Makes perfect sense given the weather, but it's an expensive thing to do when a) it's not tax deductible, and b) even with it, there's no guarantee of a job afterwards anyway. It's quite an investment. However, maybe for others who are yet to get their CPL and want to get some sort of rating/endorsement whilst building up the hours - that would be a worthwhile path.

I am going to start having to make decisions about work 'back home' shortly. At some point I will need to accept my adult responsibilities, but not just yet!

Post note: one thing I find amusing about this place (the NT): before I bought a car in Darwin I checked with the MVR (motor vehicle registry) twice - once on the phone and once in person - to confirm that I can transfer registration even though I don't have NT residency. I was told it's not a problem, they just 'lock' the rego so I can't renew it unless I have residency by then. All good. I buy the car, and head to pay stamp duty and do the paperwork. Different MVR, and this time I'm told that it can't be done because I don't have NT residency. I need to do it in my home state. Well, that's not happening any time soon! The long and the short of it, because the seller will send in their disposal form, there is nothing more for me to do. The bonus? given that I can't transfer the rego, I don't have to pay stamp duty. Bloody idiots!

[multime]

Just for a laugh?
Is A Mitchell ST.?
Is B Langtrees, Redhouse or Pinkhouse in KAL.?
Time will tell.
Theres always the longrass. The fabled spinifex princess.:=
Goodluck
M

[Go West]

Go to Broome. No rating required. Not right away anyway.

"I guess I shouldn't disclose on here that I'm a tall, blonde female", then if u add: and crashed and puts out..............You will get a job for sure.

No disrespect to all hard work working honest ladies up there. Or even the dishonest ones........It is not your fault. :)

[The Green Goblin]

Mate your a commercial pilot now, any flying that "you" pay for is tax deductible. The confusion is that it's not GST exempt (unless you do it prior to CPL test).

Not true.

Any training you undertake must be for progression in the existing company. You can't do a MECIR and claim it as a tax deduction to gain employment at another company if your company does not require it.

Same goes for ATPL subjects, or anything else.

[tinpis]

The bonus? given that I can't transfer the rego, I don't have to pay stamp duty. Bloody idiots

I would be very, very careful my friend, with regard to third party insurance
Have a biffo, worse kill someone sleeping on the road, and you will have lawyers crawling all over you like flies

[Krazy]

Mate your a commercial pilot now, any flying that "you" pay for is tax deductible. The confusion is that it's not GST exempt (unless you do it prior to CPL test).

Exactly what GG said. Just because you got away with it, doesn't make it legal. I quote from the ATO:

In order to get a tax deduction....

You must have incurred the expense in the course of earning your assessable income...

and;

Self-education expenses are expenses that you incur when you undertake a work-related course to obtain a formal qualification from a school, college, university or other place of education.

The course must have a sufficient connection to your current employment, that is, the course:

* maintains or improves the specific skills or knowledge you require in your current employment, or
* results in, or is likely to result in, an increase in your income from your current employment.

You cannot claim a deduction for self-education expenses for a course that does not have a sufficient connection to your current employment even though:

* it might be generally related to it (see example 1), or
* it enables you to get new employment.

In other words, just because you are qualified in a profession, doesn't mean your continued study entitles you to a tax deduction.

[Krazy]

Well, having left location B I am now in C. Again, I am loving the countryside. It may sound kinda corny, but it's really nice to see so much of the country I've grown up in! This place is so large there always seem to be new places to see.

On the job front however, things aren't looking overly promising. There are definitely a lot more pilots than there are jobs out and about. Sure, if the hiring in the larger companies goes ahead in the coming months, there may be more jobs available at the lower end of the scale, but who really knows if that's going to happen.

I have received a couple of leads through PMs, and I thank you for those. A couple are proving potentially promising (whatever that means) and others are dead ends. Some may, if anything, just get me some free flying on weekends. A wishful thought for now.

I am making a big effort of talking to operators/CPs on the phone prior to arriving in town and meeting them in person. The idea is twofold: 1 - less of a surprise to them. 2 - they might tell me to not waste their time (and my time), which makes my route planning a lot easier if I know there is no point going to certain locations.

One thing I am hearing more and more of is the time requirements. I have spoken to a few places today where their requirements are as low as 250 or 300 hours (of course I have also spoken to some who have 400 and 500 hour minimums). My point being, I feel a bit positive that there are some with hour requirements that aren't as high as I first thought they would be. Not that I'm saying getting another 100 hours is easy (nor cheap), but it's something to think about.

What I have realised in all this is the dog eat dog nature of things. I know that for me, personally, it is hard (in fact downright bad for my mental health) to not be working in something mentally stimulating. So whilst I admire pilots who will wait in a location for up to 12 months for a job, working at Coles or a servo in the mean time, I don't think it's something I can do. 10 years ago, I reckon I could. Today, I think it would really be damaging to my health. I'm sure there are others like me out there who have come from a life of working 40 stimulating hours a week. It's not easy to all of a sudden do nothing with your time. Unfortunately, I think that might bode badly for people in my shoes. But in the end, I'm pursuing this career for happiness - and there is no point becoming a mental wreck on the road to happiness now is there?

[Apollo2010]

If you cant handle standing infront of a checkout for a few hours what makes you think you can handle making a landing into a rough as guts strip, overweight, in heavy weather, low in fuel and with the 'runway lighting' dissapearing?

this is sarcasm, right?

[Tinstaafl]

It's the mentality of a pilot who chooses operate overweight in to a possibly unsuitable landing site (especially overweight!) while low on fuel and in weather conditions below minima that leads to airlines using psychometric testing.

Those sorts of flight conditions aren't mentally stimulating. They are just high risk & scary. It's not the same. With experience most pilots recognise and choose to avoid putting themselves in risky situations. Doesn't stop their flying from being mentally stimulating. The challenging part is how to get the flight done safely & legally while *avoiding* the risk.

[j3pipercub]

All good guys, he's a tool who doesn't even have a CPL, he's tried to pass himself off as 'Dennis the heavy jet captain'.

QF, just to let you know, you've just become my pet project...

[baron_beeza]

So it is not just me.. is it ?

QF does have several persona's or alter egos.

Sorry for the thread drift, - but of course they all do eventually anyway.

All the best up North.

I may be able to help out with accommodation in Darwin, at a push.
PM if you want... i also work about a little up there. May have some info also.

[hueyshuffle]

Hey, like Krazy, I'm heading up from Perth up to Broome with a few stops in between. Looking like this March, not the best timing but had to apply for leave etc from my current job and cheapest tickets etc.. got a couple of questions for you guys (some of whom seem to be in the know about Oz - i'm a kiwi...)

Is the time of the year going to make quite a big difference??

Does having 500 hours make a significant difference to employment chances as opposed to a 200/250 hr fresh cpl?

MEIR will have lapsed...will this make a big difference?

Does it help to chat with them and see if there's a possibility that they'll give me a call if something comes up later in the year? Does this even happen??

Thanks for your help in advance, I'm trying to make the most of the time I have there so any advice is appreciated.

If i've posted in the wrong forum let me know and i'll remove and repost...

[Krazy]

I'll leave huey's discussion to the other thread where it's taken hold. In the mean time, I spent most of the day travelling again in order to follow up a couple of leads. I agree with what everyone (especially those who have 'been there, done that') is saying: find a place and stay there if you can. This definitely seems to be the way to get a job in the current climate. I don't necessarily advocate this as being the way things should work, I am saying that this appears to be the way things do work. At least at the moment.

I have a suspicion after talking to some senior people in GA, that things aren't always like this. ie., there are definitely times when supply doesn't far exceed demand like at the moment, and during those times, hiring could work a little differently. But these are the times we find ourselves in, so this is what we must do.

It's not easy though to say to yourself you are going to hang around somewhere where you know for a fact there are many more pilots than there will be jobs. Sure, some pilots will leave, and sure, people will (I assume) get hired on their merit - so some are obviously better than others. But it is a hard thing to do.

For now, I still have leads (and I use that word EXTREMELY loosely) to follow up. Unfortunately a couple were at point Z and a couple at point Y. Opposite directions. But, I can only go one step at a time.

One thing I have found is that all the people here (as in the North West of this country) in my situation are all pretty friendly and you can't go wrong meeting them and making new friends!

[Diversion90]

Krazy thanks for taking the time to write about your findings up north. Gives a great insight to those of us who will be making the trek up there one day.

[freshy1234]

Is second that Diversion,

Keep up the good work Krazy

[Howard Hughes]

One thing I have found is that all the people here (as in the North West of this country) in my situation are all pretty friendly and you can't go wrong meeting them and making new friends!
And when your new friends get jobs, they will be able to let you know when someone leaves, so you can be 'Johnny on the spot'!:ok:

[bushy]

Be wary of job offers that involve going to a very remote location and being paid only for flying hours. You may not get wnough hours to make it viable.

[Widewoodenwingswork]

Hey Krazy, Have you considered moving to Darwin, Jabiru, Kununurra as an accountant? This would allow you to get to know the people in the area, and then when something comes along (as it enevitably does), making the transition across to flying, at least your income would be stable and you could pick the best operator as you got to know them. I presume Rio Tinto would hire accountants at Ranger, which would possibly allow you the freedom of shift work. Just a thought. Good luck mate!

[Krazy]

Have you considered moving to Darwin, Jabiru, Kununurra as an accountant?
I can't say I have! I've done book-keeping for a small business before, but with Accounting 101 being one of my worst subjects at uni, I don't think that would be a good career move for me! On the other hand, finding a job in my profession IS something I have considered and is something I'm actively pursuing. There isn't much going (in any profession) in these tiny little towns. But I have looked, believe me. Darwin is much more of a possibility and something still being actively pursued as an option.

Cheers!

[tinpis]

Have I asked? Are you a carpenter or something useful?
They're always looking for block layers in Darwhine

http://i49.tinypic.com/qpfaeo.jpg

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Does the pub at Darwin airport still advertise for topless bar maids?

Used to pay $60.00 an hour, so you could drop the wife/girlfriend/patrner/backpacker/bonkbuddy off for a six hour shift and you could spend the time annoying the various operaters for a flying gig and then call in for a few cold ones at the end of the day.

Win Win situation I say.

[Krazy]

Are you a carpenter or something useful?

Of course I'm something useful - I'm a pilot! hehe. Seriously though - I don't have a trade as such. More technical office worker. There are a few such jobs around, but not many.

Does the pub at Darwin airport still advertise for topless bar maids?

I can't say I've checked that one out yet! Maybe I should. Hell, surely under equal opportunity regulations they wouldn't be able to deny ME a job!

[Krazy]

Firstly, I would like to reiterate again to anyone else thinking about this and not sure whether they should make the trek or not (ie., me 1 month ago). Do it! Especially if you like travelling and like seeing new places. And I don't mean make the commitment up front to MOVE to whoop whoop if you are unsure about it. Come up, drive around, meet people and see the places. There really is no need to make a commitment up front to stay in one particular place.

Yes, many people say it's good to hang around one place and dig yourself in there. I do not disagree, this definitely seems like one way to get a job. But, you don't need to randomly pick a place off the map and then go there. Try a few places, see where you like and what place you'd like to hang around (if at all). Whilst I may be at a disadvantage with SOME places for not hanging around (ie., not deciding yet where I will base myself), I have had the opportunity to meet lots and lots of other people in the industry in the mean time (and see some interesting places). Some senior people even have agreed with me that it's good to see lots of places and meet lots of people at least initially.

Anyway, a few thousand KMs later I am chasing up a couple more leads. Only one serious one to go. Interestingly, a few of the leads I have been chasing on this trip have been unrelated to me being on this trip (although for at least one, being on the trip meant I was able to meet the relevant people!) What I would like to say though, is there are leads out there. Yes, there are lots of pilots, but I'm finding that there are opportunities to be had. I'm not saying I've got a job yet, I'm just saying that I can see there are opportunities about that are beyond the obvious. Maybe I'm talking BS - but I'm hoping that in a couple of weeks I can say that I wasn't!

Oh - and I LOVE the lightning storms!!!

[gassed budgie]

Oh - and I LOVE the lightning storms!!!


They don't look so flash from the inside!

[onezeroonethree]

Krazy - well said. I'm going to make the drive up in the next 3-4 weeks (wish I could do it earlier but unfortunately I cant... hopefully I wont miss out:))

My reasoning is "what have you got to lose?". In the end, if the **** hits the fan, it isn't for you & you don't like it - you can at any time pack the car again and drive back to where you came from (or buy a plane ticket back)... That said I'm definitely going to have a drive around a lot of places, look around to see what I like and then decide who I'm going to bother for a job :)

I'd rather sit around up north waiting for a job opportunity than in Melbourne... even if worst came to worst I'd just consider it a nice scenic holiday I've always wanted to take.

[Krazy]

They don't look so flash from the inside!

Nice pun there gassed budgie!

[Its the Pleats]

Great thread! I can't wait for Krazy to write "I got the job, flying a C206 on scenics!" I know 1000's have gone before you and its a common career path but to be following you in real time and not just talking about it after the event is actually very exciting. Bringing back memories, its the 'thrill of the hunt'!

Stick at it until you achieve your goal (as corny as that sounds). I don't want to read "Sorry guys, I've run out of money and I'm heading back home, flying is not for me." I (and everybody else following you I'm sure) will kick your arse!

[Hot High Heavy]

Krazy & Onezeroonethree

I'm doing exactly the same thing and am in the same boat as you both and headed up in early May.

Hopefully we can look back at this thread in a few months when all 3 of us have jobs (as pilots) and have a laugh!

Its a huge move but a once in a lifetime opportunity and a great experience!

Good luck to all :ok:

[Krazy]

I hope this isn't getting too political for pprune, but I must say that spending time in Northern Australia seeing the plight of Aborigines in the towns around here is quite an eye-opener, and quite a sad indictment on Australia. It's not like I grew up in areas which didn't have an Aboriginal population (even though I may live in one now), but it was very different to what I see up here - or at least very different to what I see as an adult.

People talk about the issues of living up North - the remoteness, small towns, cost, etc. But I imagine many other people would find the 'in your face' reality of racial divisions in society quite hard to live with too. Sure, there are amusing things, such as watching 3 locals fight over a case of beer in the middle of a street. But that's quite sad too. Seeing people drinking almost non-stop, then passing out drunk in just about every public place, seeing blatant racism, seeing people beg. It's a big slap in the face for those of us that come from the comfy life-style down South where we think Australia is a lovely place to live, first world, and everyone has a good life.

I really don't want to start a political debate here. I just want to make those people who have not yet come up here but are thinking about it, to be aware of yet another aspect of Northern WA and NT life that us Mexicans aren't so used to.

[tinpis]

You have stumbled upon the raison d'être for the Darwhine aviation industry :ok:

[frigatebird]

Yes Krazy, and if you travel further afield in search of work as a pilot, to Australia's north and east, you will find poverty and a lack of opportunity for locals too, a percentage of which is of their own making because change is too hard to do. Adjust or remain behind, in this world, has been the way since before the Ice Ages ! (There is always a cost though, and a nostalgia for the Old Ways)

[Blueskymine]

Wait 'till you start flying them around Krazy, they will drive you crazy!

The average IQ of indigenous people is around 70 points. Due to being an isolated small island population they did not have the chance and opportunity for mutations to occur randomly in the population, to evolve higher levels of intelligence which is why they look and act primitive. The population in Tasmania was so small and isolated they were considered to be the most primitive people in the world not even being able to 'make fire'.

Suddenly combine this with a modern lifestyle where lateral thinking and problem solving is required daily and you work out that they are not equipped to deal with what we impose on them.

There was a study done in Broome back in the 80's with Aboriginal children where they were asked to pick the larger quantity of fluid. A glass was poured into a tall thin glass, and a glass and a half poured into a short wide glass in front of them. 8/10 chose the tall thin glass.

You will see this often when trying to explain 5 seats in an aircraft mean 5 people, not 7 or 8.........it can take them a while to work it out :ugh:

[Fantome]

I'll be havin' the tall thin glass too, thank you Seamus.

[Mr.Buzzy]

A glass and a half was poured into a tall thin glass, and a glass poured into a short wide glass in front of them. 8/10 chose the tall thin glass.


So which clan are you from Bozo?

bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Captain Nomad]

Blueskymine, those comments could get you in trouble...

The idea that one race is superior to another is a dangerous road to start down. Nazi Germany and Communist Russia under Stalin carried out horrible attrocities based on that very belief. What you believe affects how you act people.

It's the 'HUMAN' race - we have to find a better way than repeating mistakes of the past...

[Captain Nomad]

I doubt living in a squaller beating your mrs and kids and sleeping in parks boozed off your brain for weeks on end is cultural.

Exactly, and the traps of the 'Western' man such as the booze play a bigger part in the problem than what a lot of people would be willing to admit. Perhaps it is also that it is so big a problem that it goes in the 'too hard' basket.

I still disagree with the idea of making blanket remarks on race related opinions of 'intelligence' levels.

[b_sta]

Perhaps a little research into why some indigenous Australians are the way they are (think mistreatment, harassment, exclusion and the destruction of culture by the saviour white man over the past 200 years) would serve some of the posters here quite well, rather than making stereotyped assumptions based on anecdotal experience. Slippery slope indeed :ugh:

[blackhand]

Krazy one:
The truth about the condition of indigenous people in the NT is indeed heartbreaking to Balanda, but is not to Yolgna - it falls into the category of "what is" to them.

Ignore some of the remarks made here and go work in Arnhem Land, once you develop an understanding of the people you will see it differently.

Blueskymine( .....our beds are burning?)
As far as IQ is concerned, it gives a number unrelated to anything else.

BH

[Krazy]

Guys - as I said, I didn't want a political argument. Please stay away from making inflammatory comments (or simply comments which OTHERS may consider inflammatory).

My point was not whether anything is right or wrong, or who's to blame, or why things are they way they are. It was simply trying to get across to those who aren't here HOW things are because I reckon it's an important point.

Personally, I would love the opportunity to work in a community in Arnhem land. Never been there, but the opportunity to try and integrate with a local community, learn a bit of their culture and try and understand it a bit better sounds fantastic. I've loved doing that sort of thing travelling in other countries, it only makes sense that I would want to do it in my own country. That being said, for ME, PERSONALLY, it would be harder in my own country. But still something I would like to do.

[frigatebird]

Well said. Experience and understand. All the best with the jobhunting.

[j3pipercub]

You started it Krazy...

[onetrack]

Blueskymine is correct, but I think the description of the difference between whites and Abo's could have been better put.
The difference between Aboriginals and whites is a gulf that will be with us for centuries, and no amount of money, or do-gooders efforts, will do much to narrow it.
Until you have worked with Abo's or employed them, as I have, you will never grasp the differences between white and Aboriginal outlooks, on every facet of our respective cultures.

The problem is that Abo's are tribal - but whites are independent and self-reliant. Abos do not recognise material value - whites value it greatly. A fine wooden table, built by craftsmen, is adored and respected, and treated with care, by whites - but in Abo's eyes, it's seen as a table only until it gets cold - then it's seen as firewood to keep you warm.

Money is something that whites value greatly, and place great personal attachment to. Abo's see money as something to be spent - now - with no idea of its value, and no idea of the amount of work attached to gathering it.
If one Abo has $50, the whole tribe is rich. No Abo goes without, if just one Abo has money. If you're a white, and have $50M - and I'm down on my luck, unemployed, without a cent to my name - you'll walk past me in the street, telling me I need to work harder. If you're stuck, anywhere, for any reason - any Abo will help you - but he expects you to turn around and help the whole tribe, the minute he decides they need assistance.

The reason Abos steal everything they can lay their hands on, is because their minds work on simple tribal mentality. "You have money - I need it - if you don't give it to me, like other tribe members would do - I'll steal it."
The need for personal possessions, and the work ethic, are something that Abo's have never possessed in 40,000 years. They have never needed to work.
They get hungry, they hunt down some food, kill it and eat it on the spot. If it's a big feed, like a wallaby, the whole lot has to be eaten on the spot. There may not be any food tomorrow, and tomorrow may never come.
Abo's never even consider tomorrow in any form. Whites plan carefully, and plan ahead. Abos never plan anything. They take life as it comes, and live only for the present.

Booze is something that makes Abo's feel good, and is readily available. Why not drink booze all day? This is the simple childlike outlook of the Abo mentality. Unfortunately, booze was never a part of their culture until the whites arrived - but early administrators saw that Abo's were incapable of handling booze - and refused to give it them (a wise move).

In the 1960's, do-gooders said that was discrimination, and fought for "drinking rights" for Abo's - and won them. Since that time, billions have been spent trying to reverse the damage that alcohol has done to Abo communities. Some communities have gone completely dry to try and eliminate the community damage, and have ejected the Abo boozers - who have ended up hanging around the outskirts of, and in the centre of, country towns - creating trouble and indulging in anti-social behaviour. It will get worse before it gets better. The remote Abo communities don't want these trouble-making, boozing, Abo people - but neither do the white-run towns want them. Thus, they live in permanent limbo, from welfare payment to welfare payment, and from one booze-sozzled day, to the next.

The tribal, communal, simplistic, childlike outlook, that Abo's have, is totally at complete odds, with whites outlook - where we value the work ethic, monetary wealth, personal responsibility - and take great pride in material possessions, and guard them possessively.
The Abo's possess fabulous hunting, tracking, and visual skills that few whites can match. Ask a white child to look at a tree, and relate what they see - and a white child will tell you the type of tree, whether its a pretty tree, whether it has value as timber, or how it fits into its urban surroundings.
An Abo child will tell you about what medicine that tree is good for, what animals or insect inhabit it, that are good to eat, what the wood and resin is good for (digging sticks, woomeras or spears) .. and they'll examine the ground under the tree and tell you what animals have tracked under it recently.

If you employ Abos, expect to employ the whole tribe. If you want one Abo worker, employ three - because the one you employ initially will turn up for the first three days of the week, then vanish for 3 weeks - as he is gripped by more important issues than work - such as "family problems", or some tribal gathering that's important to him. Having to work, to earn money, is not something that has ever been linked in Abo's minds. The whites provide you with money, anyway, so why bother working? If the whites don't provide it, steal it! - they got plenty anyway!

Until the people in charge of decision making with regard to Abo support, come to the understanding that Aboriginal overall outlook, and the whites overall outlook, are at a variance that can never be fully joined, by trying to make Abo's behave like whites, the sooner the "Aboriginal problem" will be resolved.

[blackhand]

Krazy one:
Personally, I would love the opportunity to work in a community in Arnhem land.

MAF if you are so inclined.
Layhnapuy Homelands if you need more income

Cheers
BH

[bushy]

I have lived in Alice Springs for over 30 years and had lots of cantact with all sorts of territorians, and others. I welcome discussion and we should be mature enough to do this without fisticuffs. I have come to the conclusion that aboriginals are the upper class in this area. Most people here work for them. Many are wealthier than me, although they don't display it.There is a huge gap between our two cultures, and we unknowingly insult each other daily.
New arrivals in the N.T. have a huge culture shock.
The N.T. will never have sufficient money or resources to handle this situation properly, although there is a massive attempt being made by lots of dedicated Territorians.
The Federal Govenment have the resources, but don't care much, because there are not many votes out here, and anyway they do not have a clue how to do it.
As Tinny says, light aircraft are an essential part of this. What I find difficult to tolerate is the southern pilots who come here just to stay a short time in order to get hours, and loudly complain about everything. We can do without them. We need dedicated pilots who accept reality and work to help make things better. I think the Krazy one might bet the latter.

[Erin Brockovich]

Good post plainmaker, with some accurate generalisations. However I do believe the problem can be solved by integration. Within a few generations actually, started by some bold political (not politically motivated) decisions and strong aboriginal leadership.

As I see it, the first problem is separation or more commonly touted by the media and do-gooders as a racist divide. At the moment we see us and them. However in reality we are all Australian in this modern world of the 21st Century. Some are Australian of English, Irish, Italian, Greek etc descent. Others are Australian of Aboriginal descent. Imagine that………..all equals.

That is step 1. Without this change there is no point wasting time and resources to fix the problem.

Step 2 is the how. Difficult but not impossible.
The current generation of Aboriginals are lost to the welfare, missionary segregated alcohol fog created by white man of the last century.

However, the children of the current generation can learn to integrate into the modern society that we all live in. That is REALITY, and the sooner we understand that the nomadic hunter of 200 years ago doesn’t exist any more the better. No welfare, no special treatment that keeps us divided.

Australians of Aboriginal descent will take responsibility for themselves. They work and learn the value of money. They will be able to own property. But most importantly they will have a sense of self worth.

They can be proud of their culture and keep it alive as well as contributing to society as equals.

This may take a couple of generations for change in behaviour to take place, but it will happen.

But who am I kidding. No politician will ever have the balls to implement this idea – and the “Aboriginal Problem” will forever exist until they become extinct like an endangered species.

Oh by the way – happy topend adventure

[Stationair8]

Welcome to the Nanny Territory!!!

The skimpy bar maid job pays bloody well, compared to GA.

Lets say the better half could put in a forty hour week at $60.00 an hour that equates to $2400.00 a week multiply that by 52 equals $124,800pa.

Your call krazy.

[blackhand]

Suggested reading for BlueSkymine, Onetrack et al:

Guns Steel and Germs by Jared Diamond.

Gives a far better explanation on cultural differences than the simplistic concept of genetic superiority.

BTW when camping and fishing with Yolgna, get your bit of the barra before its chucked on the fire - they will not mind.

BH

[Fantome]

It might be helpful to Krazy if there were not quite so many views posted smacking of intolerance, let alone laced with terms now universally accepted as offensive. If he comes into contact with some of the finer indigenous men and women it will be to his lasting benefit. Incidently, Andrew McMillan, who lives in Darwin, is worth seeking out. He lives in a kind of a bunker but is quite approachable. Loves flying too. He has lived with the Yolngu people in East Arnhem Land and has written brilliantly of his experiences . (He's also written a great book called 'Catalina Dreaming' full of rich personal accounts he garnered of operating and servicing Cats in the top end. Andrew McMillan (http://andrewmcmillan.com.au)/ )

In the Australian Dictionary of Biography, among the tens of thousands of entries are several hundred outlining the lives of indigenous men and women who made significant contributions and sacrifices, not only on behalf of their own people but in the service, including defence, of Australia as a whole. Many served in the armed forces in the Second World War and later conflicts. Leonard Waters flew with distinction in the RAAF in the Second World War, before returning to the soul impinging years of racial vilification and second class citizenship, not that citizenship was then technically available to him.

On that subject, there is much to be learnt on the website of the Human Rights Commission.

Cyber-racism Symposium Report (http://www.humanrights.gov.au/racial_discrimination/cyberracism/report.html)

e.g.
Here, in one particular paper, there are samples of extreme racism quoted to highlight the offensiveness of particular websites. Such as -

One page, entitled "Politically Incorrect Humour", contains the following:

"Dictionary: Coon (c-oo-n) n. Nigger (nig-er) n. Abo (a-bb-o) n. Boong (b-OO-ng) n.
An Australian anthropoid scrub ape of the primate family Austropongidae (superfamily cercopithecoidea). Escaping from Africa in prehistory, these wild creatures now roam freely, while destroying the economic and social infrastructures of Australia and various other nations. These flamboyant sub-humans love to consume large quantities of greasy fried chicken, inhale petroleum gasoline and listen to fellow apes "sing" rhymes over deaf beats. One can find these lazy sub-humans infesting areas of the world called urban slums."

[Fantome]

probably never seen a full blood aboriginal in all your life


southerners to sit there and quote equality and all the fuzzy wuzzy feel good crap


Is that so? Little you know!


Krazy, there's been some good stuff on the African Forum that bears on the kind of work you're angling for. You might have missed some posts from luminaries like kotakota . He's worth tuning into, bringing up all his posts.


6th June 2009
kotakota


I certainly was not an ace from Day 1 , but got through the system and became a safe bush pilot in Kenya for a few thousand hours in the 70s , had a struggle with ( African ) airline operation in the early days because training was so minimal then , you learnt on the line , which was difficult flying with the Pathfinder / Bomber Command captains from the 40s who booked no backchat / SOPS / CRM at all and whose risk taking was legendary so that their 'perfect ' record of landing at destination was quite breathtaking .
I went on to become a Captain at BA and a few other stops on the way .
I am currently flying NGs for a Middle East airline and am coasting towards retirement in 2 to 3 years medical always permitting as I am now 60 , but I know for a fact that all the FO's like flying with me because of my experience . We have to deal with lots of night flights to Indian destinations which are testing at most times , but especially now the Monsoon is kicking in.
I put it all down to the fact that my combination of bush and airline flying has given me a healthy attitude to terrain and weather that a textbook can never buy . I am still challenged by my flying and that is good . I am always staggered by the cockiness of copilots who know it all at 1000 hours TT . I keep quiet and then thoroughly enjoy their discomfort as the weather detiorarates and the rhythm of perfect SOP goes out the window. The ones who recognise their limitations are the ones who go on to be good pilots.
Humility is one of the great aviation virtues but is in short supply these days .
Bush pilot experience rules.

[onezeroonethree]

random Q: What's phone reception like out there? In towns like Darwin/Broome I'd presume it's fine, and smaller places like KNX I would also assume it would be fine... but what about smaller towns?

When I ask about phone reception - I ask about all the phone providers. I'm with 3 atm and am wondering whether I should switch to something like Telstra or whether I'll be fine?

[onetrack]

Switch to Telstra. 3 is good for nothing outside the major cities perimeters.

[tmpffisch]

onezeroonethree, only Telstra or Vodafone in KNX.

[hardNfast]

Tesltra Next G. Don't bother with anything else. The extra you pay is worth it.

Will work at most weird and wonderful places you fly to. Helpful when planes break down, or pax don't turn up etc. If it does not work at the place once airborne you get reception fairly quick. I'm only talking from experiance but obviously depends on the place you go to.

[onezeroonethree]

Thanks guys! will make the switch soon!

[Krazy]

I have been travelling with my Vodafone SIM as well as a Telstra SIM (which I've used primarily for Internet rather than phone calls). I've had Vodafone coverage in every town I've been in (where I've stayed looking for jobs that is). Telstra definitely covers a LOT further out of town (assuming you've got a 850MHz capable phone) than Vodafone. Unfortunately I've had endless troubles with Telstra customer service (what's new). Otherwise, the coverage is great!

[Widewoodenwingswork]

So. Did you get a job Krazy? We're all on the edge of our seats here.

[Krazy]

Yeah, I know, I haven't posted for a while. I don't have a job yet, but there are a couple of things in the wind at the moment. Ranging from very good opportunity if it were to happen, to unpaid flying work which I would do on a weekend basis if there were no other options (and I had another job in the area, and since if I didn't do it, someone else would!)

Am now in a bit of a bigger town, visiting people from my personal life. Have also decided that due to considerations much larger than my desire to fly, if none of the opportunities come through, I will not be sitting and withering away in a small outback town where my life wastes away. I will simply go work in my old profession somewhere where I can do flying on weekends (a couple of opportunities for that have at least presented themselves). This will allow me to still earn a decent income while getting my hours up, and also giving me an insurance policy that if flying doesn't work out, I have not burnt all my bridges. That's something which I reckon is important in general and a philosophy I intend to apply to this part of my life as much as any other. I don't believe in putting all my eggs in one basket, and I don't believe in burning bridges. I do still hope deeply that I will have the opportunity to be based somewhere away from the big towns and cities and enjoy life at the same time as enjoying flying!

[bogdantheturnipboy]

Krazy,
Interesting thread.

If you end up staying in the top end, try and learn a bit more about the indigenous folk. Most pilots are pretty ignorant and don't take the opportunity to learn about much or think about much except aviation, twin hours and that airline job (ah yeah and beer). They are happy to get the hours flying indigenous people around, while they snigger about their problems with no comprehension what their life is really like and why. If you do want a bit more understanding a good place to start is this book; Why Warriors Lay Down and Die by Richard Trudgen.

Good luck with the job hunting and keep enjoying the journey!

[onezeroonethree]

Ok... I was told by a mate today that apparently there is close to 100 unemployed pilots sitting in Broome waiting for flying jobs to present themselves... which sounds A LOT worse than I expected.

Can anybody comment on this, confirm / deny? :{

[Krazy]

If you end up staying in the top end, try and learn a bit more about the indigenous folk.

Definitely. In fact, I actually consider being able to do that a nice little bonus of working up north!

....twin hours and that airline job (ah yeah and beer).

You forgot to mention 'women' ;-) Actually, my aim at the moment isn't airlines. Flying a computer doesn't appeal to me that much. Yes, nice big and shiny does. But I am tending towards a life in a stick & rudder environment if I had my way!

I was told by a mate today that apparently there is close to 100 unemployed pilots sitting in Broome waiting for flying jobs to present themselves...

I don't think it's THAT bad. I was there and if there are 100, they are hiding themselves pretty well! I would guestimate more like 20-40. But I reckon only a CP there would be able to give you a better idea.

[onezeroonethree]

I don't think it's THAT bad. I was there and if there are 100, they are hiding themselves pretty well! I would guestimate more like 20-40. But I reckon only a CP there would be able to give you a better idea.

God I hope you're right. Because if it is closer to the 100 mark... it's thrown my hopes right out the window... and will probably mean a plan change.

I know it's bad... but eh.. I guess I'll wait for somebody else to reply in regards to that rumour and see what others say - along with trying to get more info out of some 'friends of friends' in person.

[tmpffisch]

God I hope you're right. Because if it is closer to the 100 mark... it's thrown my hopes right out the window... and will probably mean a plan change.


Nothing like walking into an operator to visit and seeing 20 other pilots doing the exact same thing. I think the quote was "You can walk past a tree, give it a good shake and 5 pilots will fall out...."

Good reason to have been up here late last year, let alone next week (or as I read one say...May)

[onezeroonethree]

Good reason to have been up here late last year, let alone next week (or as I read one say...May)

Unfortunately not everyone could get up there last year... I cant until early March :(

I was always generally told the hiring up there starts around late feb - march... :\

[Howard Hughes]

It makes no difference how many pilots are there, as only a certain number of those pilots will be employable. The secret is being one of the few who are worth employing!:ok:

[The Green Goblin]

There are presently about 30 pilots waiting in Kunus. Slingair are hiring 8 and are starting in the next two weeks. Alligator are looking at around the same figure and will possibly end up hiring up to 16. They are starting interviews late March.

Leos are about to hire and are doing interviews. BAS and BAV have not indicated although I believe the CP of BAV has had her hands full with a CASA audit after the Caravan engine shutdown.

There are 5 Kiwis that I know of in Kunus and they believe a certain operator does not hire Kiwis. This is not true, so i'd like to bust this myth.

I believe you'll have a 60/40 chance judging by Pilot numbers in the towns VS the jobs that will be offered.

There will be plenty of movement at the piston multi engine turboprop ranks this year so there will be good times again in the 2011 Kunus season. If you don't make it this year you will next. The last shortage was in 2006/2007 for single engine piston drivers. 5 years on 2011/2012! (we seem to work on a 5 year boom and bust cycle)

My advice is if you are doing your training this year, get it finished by years end and be ready for next year. If you miss out this year, stay in town, try and keep current somehow and you'll have a good shot the following year.

GG signing off :cool:

Oh and Krazy, a lot of guys know who you are, I'd refrain from the flying for free talk (remember how I said this industry is very small??) :ok:

[Krazy]

Oh and Krazy, a lot of guys know who you are

I know, I'm starting to feel special :-p I also think people realise that just because I mention opportunities, it doesn't mean I am taking them up. I am of course bringing my sense of dignity and self respect into this profession with me.

I'm adding this perhaps at my own peril - but I also would never say anything on this forum that I wouldn't say publicly and put my name behind. I am not one to hide behind a vale of anonymity. Perhaps this may hurt my chances in the industry, but it is also probable that those (if any) I am hurting my chances with, are those who I would not want to work with/for.

Anyway - that's enough of a hole for now ;-)

[Krazy]

paperbag - that's not jacking the thread - it's a very good question and would also love to hear what others have to say (always good to know this sort of thing in advance). So far I have experienced a range of technical questions (more related to Air Law than the specific aircraft) right through to the organisation/chief pilot just wanting to get to know me as a person (which is obviously important given that people skills are important when doing scenic and charter flights!)

I have also been asked a few scenario type questions. Not ones where I go away and work it out with a pen and paper, but more to see me think on my feet a little (I assume).

Have also been asked about my motivations for wanting to fly, end goals, and thoughts of living in various places while I work for the place.

[Hot High Heavy]

So i am in the same position as Krazy et al and was planning to head north after doing the ME-CIR (i know i wont be able to use it straight away!!). Plan was to be up there in May.

Given the past comments, should i just put this off and go up now given places will be hiring!? Will i be leaving it too late heading up in May?

I think ill be another one of those CPL's hiding in the trees waiting to be shaken out!

HHH

[206greaser]

Hey Green Goblin,

[QUOTE]There will be plenty of movement at the piston multi engine turboprop ranks this year so there will be good times again/QUOTE]

Mate I have read your posts with interest over the last few years, and you seem to be someone who has a decent idea of the industry. I hope you are right about this statement. Just wondering if you could elaborate on your reasons for this belief?

Cheers,
Greaser.

I can't quote properly...sorry

[The Green Goblin]

Jetstar and Virgin require 300 pilots this year. V Australia will be recruiting and I would not be surprised to see Qantas start also at some stage. There will also be attrition to overseas carriers such as NZ and Hong Kong.

Just think about that number for a moment, where are they going to come from?

There will be basically at least 300 Pilots moving out from the regionals into jets leaving a sizable hole for the Piston fellas to replace in turn leading to the entry level stuff.

There are 30 odd Pilots in Kunus waiting it out for maybe 20 Jobs. Broome usually put on around that number too. Once these guys have experience there will be 300 Multi engine jobs waiting around the country to fill and 300 turboprop jobs for the Multi engine piston Pilots to fill. There will be an instructor shortage again (of grade 1/2s) and a shortage of piston Pilots to fulfill mining requirements as guy's will not want to stick around when a jet job requires half that experience.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out thats for sure :}

[206greaser]

Thanks GG!

Good news for all!

Cheers,
Greaser

[JulieFlyGal]

Hope your crystal ball is correct GG! :) What's your guestimate as to when this will all start to happen?

[onezeroonethree]

I presume the 2009-2010 employment problem us low hour CPLs are facing is directly related to the GFC...

I remember a few years ago hearing the whole "pilot shortage" stuff... whether it's true or not I personally don't know... but I'm under the impression it was; just that the GFC turned things around 180 degrees... can only imagine if it never occured :ooh:

[Krazy]

I remember a few years ago hearing the whole "pilot shortage" stuff

Some flying schools are still sprouting this crap (and have been right through the current crisis). I have come across a few senior pilots and CPs who have the ****s with that false advertising...

[Horatio Leafblower]

1013

When I was in KNX 15+ years ago (1995-1997) I waited 18 months before I got the first job, and I leap-frogged ohers. My wait time was not unusual for that period - the recent hiring boom of 2007-2009 was unlike anything this industry has seen before.

I got my job because another guy fcuked up - then I fcuked up, and another guy got a start when I left. We have all moved on into bigger, better things - despite an inauspicious start :ok:

Blackfellas

I moved north with my girlfriend (a vegetarian GP with hairy armpits) and a heap of very liberal uni-student attitudes to the blackfellas (they aren't Kooris or Murris either, by the way). I made a lot of effort to treat everyone I met the same way, regardless of colour or creed.

12 months later I returned to Sydney for a couple of weeks and had my school mates over to Mum's for a bbq and a beer, and we went through the slides and described what we had seen and learnt about the blackfellas - remember my girlfriend was a GP doing clinics in Oombi and Kalumburu and we had learnt a LOT about these people and their culture.

...anyway a couple of my mates were dating pretty young 2nd/3rd year uni students who refused to believe us, branded us racist, and spat at us that "you country rednecks are all the same!"

Everything Onetrack has written accords closely with my observations and experience. My attitudes to the blackfellas was a fair bit more tollerant and enlightened than most of my colleagues, but even with the best of intentions the cultural chasm will wear you down.

Krazy
Good luck, well done, go well! :ok:

[Stationair8]

Nothing like the vegetarian Chardonay drinking, know it all Sydney uni student who has never been west of the Blue Mountains to save us from the evils of racism!!!

Spend a day in Port Keats, Oenpelli, Mannigrida and watch your taxes at work.

[blackhand]

Aboriginal people have more opportunity than any white born child in Australia.

Really?

...................

[Krazy]

People - how about keeping this thread on topic. I have had countless people say that they have found this thread useful, so rather than turning it into another pprune rant where everyone sprouts on about whatever they want, how about not doing it here. That way people who are interested in it don't have to trawl through the crap that isn't related to what they want to read. Feel free to start another thread about race relations and political issues in Australia. If you have something to say on those topics and it is related to the experience of moving up north and living there when going for your first flying job, then great. If it's simply dribbling on continuously about opinions or the like, try save it.

Hope this doesn't come across harsh. But just trying to steer things in the right direction!

[Iknowboats]

Spot on Krazy :ok:

[tail wheel]

A reminder that inappropriate racist comments have no place on PPRuNe.

:mad:

[ules]

Great Thread. keep posting Krazy.. il prob end up there next yr .. :ok:

[archangel7]

hey krazy just wondering where are you at the moment?

have you visited kunnus yet?

[bushy]

If you get a flying job up there you will soon find that aboriginals are a very relevent factor in a pilot's life, and you will be actively involved in aboriginal affairs. Aboriginals make up a large part of the population and a still larger part of the passengers you carry. They are different and discussion about this is appropriate. But, as taily says discussion should be sensible and not offensive to anyone.
I understand that young pilots are only interested in jobs and bigger and better aeroplanes, but, if you choose to be involved in the operation of light aircraft up north, then expect to have lots of contact with aboriginals.
I remember landing a C310 at a community and finding that one of my pax wished to stay in the aeroplane. He eventually did get out, carrying one of his boots, which was full of urine.
Guess what! He was aboriginal.

[Fantome]

What does the severely caught short passenger do if he has to go, like now! Mate had a couple of young stockmen in the back of the 182. Think he said it was on a run down to Curtin Springs. Won't repeat what he said about the stench, but he was quite impressed by the speed and agility displayed and the effective employment of a battered old Akubra

Pardon a bit of further drift, but seeing how it's Friday tomorrow -

One day Mrs Flanagan comes over all sickly and goes to the doctor. He looks her over and says, "Well now Mrs. Flanagan, I am a bit perplexed on your condition, but if you bring along a urine specimen to me in the morning, I'm sure I'll be able to tell you what's wrong."

So she goes home and says to her husband, "The doctor wants me to
bring him a urine specimen in the morning. But I don't know what he's talkin' about. What I am I going to do?"

Mr Flanagan replies, "Well you know I'm the last person to ask. Get yourself across to Mrs. O'Toole, she'll know what to do."

So Mrs Flanagan goes over to Mrs. O'Toole's place and comes back a
few minutes later with her clothes all torn, a black eye and her hair tangled like a bird's nest.

Shocked Mr Flanagan gasps, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, woman! What
happened to ye?"

"I went over there and I asked her what a urine specimen is.
She said 'Piss in a bottle, woman.' So, I said 'Go **** in yer hat !'
And the fight was on."

Many an Irish joke here -

humor (http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/irish/humor2.html)

[the air up there]

Bushy, I'm surprised he went in his boot. Or that he took it with him.

But what you say is correct, they are the driving force behind GA in the Top End. If it wasn't for them all these young guys wouldn't have jobs, other than the few airvan jobs flying scenics. They are different to us, in their thought processes and values, just takes a bit of effort into understanding them, and life is so much easier. Seems to be to hard for alot of people to comprehend, so hell bent on telling them what to do.

[Krazy]

Long time no write, so here's a bit of a catch up an answers to some of the questions I've been asked that I'm happy to answer in public ;-)

Firstly - after 3 weeks of hunting, and having many doors closed on me, I have been fortunate enough to 'kinda' have an opportunity. Which, after a LOT of thinking I have decided to take up until something better comes along. Thankfully, the people I'll be working for are happy with this arrangement. And I use the word 'work' a bit loosely. I'll be helping some people out doing maybe 10-20 hours a month. Paid work. Weekend work. And in the mean time I will be starting a new job in my home city down South which will provide me with an income to take care of my adult responsibilities! Something that is sorely needed after nearly 4 months of not working! On the one hand it's the best of both worlds (since the day job is a good paying job and is in my profession), on the other hand it is highly disappointing not to fulfil my dream of finding a full time flying job at this point in my life.

My time up North has made me want it even more. And actually made me really want a flying job up there - not just one based from my home city. I have always loved travelling, and now I feel the pull of the great North and will not only be trying from afar to get back there, but will be looking for jobs in my current profession up there where possible, and will be paying more visits up there to continue meeting with operators. Be it 6 months time, 12 months time, or whenever I sense an opportunity awaits me. Being able to earn an income at home in the mean time at least will afford me with that option, while still being able to gain some flying experience in the mean time, and perhaps continue with some additional flight training.

To answer some questions in the mean time:

where are you at the moment?

Just got back home a couple of hours ago. Back in the (relatively) big smoke.

have you visited kunnus yet?

Yes. Not a bad town. Far from lots of places, but fascinating landscapes. Lots of pilots in wait there. Lots.


Which towns do you recommend going to?

Definitely Kununurra & Broome. Darwin definitely has potential, and very possibly Jabiru. That's my honest opinion for the moment. In a month's time, things may change a bit.

Do you spend long in each town?

Personally I didn't. But perhaps that is my downfall. I would like to think that operators employ people based on merit (eg., good pilot, good people skills to deal with customers, etc.) and not just based on the fact that you're in town or been in town for a long time. Perhaps this isn't the case (based on what other people say on here), I'm not sure. If you do plan on staying in one town, I highly recommend checking out a few towns to see which one you could see yourself staying in long term, and after meeting some pilots and the chief pilots at the local operators - which places you would definitely like to (or not like to) work.

Are you calling ahead as a rule or just dropping in to companies?

I have done this most of the time, but not all of the time. I don't think this helped in any way apart from finding out ahead of time whether I would be wasting my time (or the chief pilot's time) by coming in and speaking to them. If a town is 500km from the next closest place you're going, and there's only one operator, and you know before you get there that they don't employ anyone with less than 500 hours due to requirements A, B & C. And you only have 200 hours, then you have an easy decision in front of you!

Is the plan to stay at a place and hang out until something comes up?

Kinda. Yes, but not up North at the moment. Too many other issues to consider right now, and I have a small opportunity down South which is better than nothing!

Is it best to buy a car or rent?

Work out a rough idea of where you plan on going and for how long first. If it's more than ~10 days AND it's a one way trip (eg., start in Darwin, end in Broome), then better to buy (money-wise). Renting has the benefit of nothing to worry about, but it gets expensive quickly. If you buy a reasonable car and sell it when you're done, you can easily get away without losing too much money on it. That's the route I took as it gave me more freedom and less to worry about.

From a CV perspective, i'm guessing it needs to be pared back to cover only relevant points?

For a new person starting out in aviation, relevant points are a bit subjective. IMHO, relevant points are not just flying related, but also things to show experience with dealing with customers, education, and demonstrating professionalism. These are the things I would think are important - others may not. Not sure.

Any companies to avoid?

Not that I know of!!! I'm sure people who have worked for companies would have stories to tell. But being a noobie, I don't know if there are any companies one should avoid. I can imagine some of the more experienced pilots reading this would be having a giggle to themselves....


Well - that's it for now. Long post, I know. Be well everyone!

[RWD5]

krazy, thankyou for sharing your experiences with us. sounds like im in a similar position to you and will be looking for jobs up north later on this year. i'll be keeping an eye on this thread. good luck!:ok:

[Fantome]

bushy, your man showed resource, presumably that's what you're implying. There used to be in the army an old nostrum about the best way to soften and break in your boots. Pig's arse. They end up smelling crook and the ammonia rots the stitching.

[Nkosi]

Krazy

I, amongst a lot of other people, have read with interest your various postings and wish you well in your future aspirations. Although I no longer have a current license, engineer and pilot, I have a great deal of sympathy for those folks wishing to get on the aviation treadmill and feel frustrated in not able to get a decent leg up the ladder. My son is in a similar position to you, and many other folks who have contributed to the thread, and I can only say that those who wish to realize their dreams will have to stick with the game plan and wait for the opportunity to arise – as it surely will one day.

However, your posts have no doubt been a valuable source of first hand information and experience for other eager guys and girls thinking along the lines of heading north, and I wish you well in your endeavors, wherever they may lead you.

Nkosi

[Blin]

Many inspirations through and through. Cheers for the story and good luck in the future :)

Blin

[archangel7]

hey krazy

why was it so difficult to ge a job? was it because of your hours of experience? what are your qualifications? and what did the operators prefer?

[Krazy]

why was it so difficult to ge a job? was it because of your hours of experience? what are your qualifications? and what did the operators prefer?

I think the following things would have increased my probability of getting a job:

Hanging around in a given town and continuously making it known that I'm there hoping for a position.
An extra 100+ hours flying experience (I have just over 200). This would have opened up more opportunities (even though if may have closed a couple as well).
Being more confident and more of a risk taker (not flying-wise, but in terms of risking my comfy life back home type thing).


I don't specifically know of people that have been hired over me. It's not like a 'standard' professional job where there is an advertisement, you apply, get shortlisted, have an interview, and then get feedback if you don't make the cut. It's more like Owen Stanley points out actually!

[cauldron]

Thanks Krazy for an excellent thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading about your journey.
I'll recommend it to a couple of aspiring pilots I know.

Best of luck for the future.

:ok:

[myshoutcaptain]

Wrap some of this around your laughing gear ....

This bloke should be given a HUGE thumbs up ... All you need to know is here.

Enjoy the Kimberley , I kicked off around there ... was paid little , worked hard and slept rough but had the best time and made the closest of mates.

The Adventures of Robbo the Yobbo! (http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/jr568/north/)


:ok::}:mad:

[Kash360]

Krazy,

Hope all is well and good, I have been directed to this thread by a few of our peers. I have just had a chance to read it, firstly thank you for the mention you gave me. Secondly you are doing a great job, I must say welldone on your efforts and courage. Keep up the great work your doing.

Kash

[splinter11]

Just to clear it up, Alligator will be hiring a maximum of 12 this year. The first couple of pilots will be taken on around mid to late april, with a further 6 in May and 4 late May/June.

Not sure about Slingair, all reports say around 6-8.

Splint

[The Green Goblin]

All you got to do at Slingair to get one of those slots is to feed the CP full of piss at the hostel when he arrives for a swim......

Word travels quick boys :8

[Krazy]

You get the golden handshake yet?

Not golden, and perhaps not even silver. I would say bronze. And for the moment, I'm happy with it :-)

[hardNfast]

So you got a gig then?:ok:

With out giving too much away, what you flying?

[Krazy]

what you flying?

Just a 182.

[Aerozepplin]

Just a 182?!

That's a lot more fun than what I'm being paid to fly these days (a desk).

I've followed the exploits of youself and others in non-internet land with great interest over the last few months. Well done sir!

[frigatebird]

It was a 182 that got me into the company and charter work after the first year of part-time instructing - loved the 600 hours that I did on it..
Would like an modern IFR one to get around in now, too..

[The Green Goblin]

So how did the interview go in Broome Krazy?

[Krazy]

Interview in Broome???