Nimrod Anyone?

[navibrator]

Losing this capability will, no doubt, cost lives in the future.

Air Sea Rescue Mission: Nimrod Scrambled To Help Injured Fisherman Off Coast Of Scilly Isles | UK News | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Air-Sea-Rescue-Mission-Nimrod-Scrambled-To-Help-Injured-Fisherman-Off-Coast-Of-Scilly-Isles/Article/201001415533317?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Regio n_3&lid=ARTICLE_15533317_Air_Sea_Rescue_Mission%3A_Nimrod_Scramb led_To_Help_Injured_Fisherman_Off_Coast_Of_Scilly_Isles)

[Wander00]

In a couple of months it won't be there. Sadly, people will die.

[Hoots]

Although this was a fairly simple task for the Nimrod, I am surprised it's on Sky but not the MOD or RAF websites, I guess positive Nimrod stories don't appeal to the powers to be. I hope they prove me wrong.

[vecvechookattack]

Losing this capability will, no doubt, cost lives in the future.



We are not losing the capability. Just the Nimrod.

[Wander00]

As one a while retired, my reading of all the threads was that in this context "Nimrod = capability", and that fill-ins from, say, the (overstretched) Hercules force pending the MRA 4 wiould really not cut the mustard. I would be happy to be reassured otherwise.

[Sideshow Bob]

We are not losing the capability. Just the Nimrod.

So what do we have to reach the edges of our area of responability?

The Sea King is only good for 200 miles. I wouldn't want to be in the water past that.

[Ken Scott]

The C130 will not be holding SAR standby, it's only taking on the role for the Falklands, so I guess the bit of sea between 30 West & 200 miles off the coast (ie: quite alot) will be a literal & metaphorical 'capability gap' until the MRA4 arrives.

Unless anyone else can think of any other suitable platform?

[navibrator]

I think you are not understanding the issue. The helicopter would not have been able to operate at the distance without the Nimrod. There is no other alternative Maritime Patrol Aircraft that could find and steer the helicopter to the vessel. Remember the Fastnet Race a few years back - what would that have been like without that long range search capability?

[mrmrsmith]

A ship go's down a few hundred miles out, what do you send up to look for it if there's no nimrod, oh I know we freeze time until the MR4 is ready. Oh and what will follow the Red Arrows and other things across the pond.

[Non Emmett]

The Reds won't be going further than the Channel Islands in The New Era. Problem solved ?

[Guzlin Adnams]

Maybe the RNZAF can lend us a P3. :sad:

(Or our politicians can speed their way out into the wide blue yonder on a cushion of hot air....)

[Ticked all the boxes]

Having been sat out there the other day it was very nice to have a friendly pair of eyes and ears above! Cheers guys. Oh well, back to the old tail chasing again then I guess. Shame we dont have a seconds crew any more...

[Party Animal]

We are not losing the capability. Just the Nimrod.

Bit like Tiger Woods having the 'capability' to remain competitive in golf when his driver, 1-4 irons, 6-9 irons, putter and sand wedge have been removed from his bag!

[Pontius Navigator]

Remember the Fastnet Race a few years back - what would that have been like without that long range search capability?

Oddly enough I had just been asked by the Gp Wpns O if we needed to carry two Lindholme ASR and the 3 dinghy pairs when the late Norman Tench went and dropped the lot at the Fastnet.

Think back, it was more or less an SOP SAROP. But thinking back from here, you wonder why there was not the odd medal dished out; perhaps because they made it seem so easy.

[sumps]

The C130 will not be holding SAR standby, it's only taking on the role for the Falklands, so I guess the bit of sea between 30 West & 200 miles off the coast (ie: quite alot) will be a literal & metaphorical 'capability gap' until the MRA4 arrives.

Unless anyone else can think of any other suitable platform?

...Ok i'll bite...if the C130 can take on the role in the falklands, why can't the other ones not down south carry out the task untill the MR4A is cleared? (taking cover)
S

[vecvechookattack]

So what do we have to reach the edges of our area of responability?

Its not our responsibility...it's the MCA's. If they want a FW asset to cover its area of responsibility then they need to buy one.

[mr ripley]

Now I am confused

The C130 will not be holding SAR standby, it's only taking on the role for the Falklands,

What has 1312 Flt been doing for the last 20 odd years then. Does this 'taking on' imply that we were not really doing it before or that it's new for the C130J?

I seem to recall that in a previous time on C130Ks during one of my visits 'down there' we adopted the callsign Rescue XX and popped around 200 miles west, found the correct fishing fleet on radar, vis ident the particular vessel, talked to it on Maritime VHF-FM, directed the Sea King to the correct vessel, and generally floated round as top cover whilst an injured Argentian sailor was picked up and flown to Stanley.

Is this the capability we are talking about as I believe it has been done on numerous occasions?

[TheSmiter]

I daresay the reason the Govt are happy to 'gap' the capability provided by Nimrod MR2 is because they know the majority of Joe Public, like some contributors to this thread, have no idea exactly what that capability is and therefore will not miss it.

Sure you can use Albert for top cover and E3 for On Scene Commander (OSC) but unless I'm much mistaken only the Nimrod has the ability to search for survivors, offer top cover and collision avoidance to rescue helo's and act as OSC to control multiple assets during the same major incident.

With a dedicated maritime search radar, AIS, EO/IR camera, multiple V/U and HF comms boxes, PLB location and homing eqpt and a vast bomb bay for ASR eqpt, the Nimrod MR2 really has it all. More importantly, it has a large crew who regularly practice SAR procedures both in the air and simulator. Top cover for helo's can be fairly routine (sometimes not) but I can assure you a major incident requires training, flexibility, and a good working knowledge of maritime SAR assets, Coastguard procedures and what ships can and cannot do. In short it's not something you can just pitch up to and hope for the best.

The Nimrod force has become used to the phrase 'we'll take it on risk' in recent years. I guess a common perception is that major incidents happen once in a blue moon, if at all. I just checked my log book and in the last 6 years I've been scrambled on 8 top cover and search missions and 3 major incidents all of which were headline news. That's just been my crew, there have been more.

However, based on those figures and this Govt's obsession with the manipulation of statistics, that makes it one major incident every 2 years.

Which, happily enough, is the gap between MR2 OSD and MRA4 ISD. Seemples. :O

[stbd beam]

Most of you here know but lets not forget the other much more important stuff the MR2 does that the cheque book signers have forgotten too. Half of these same people possibly don't know what ISK contributes (or did) and have no idea what we're throwing away - time will certainly tell.....

[Nomorefreetime]

Here's an idea.

HM Coastguard not part of defence budget ?

Boost their budgets, get them some capable platforms, Surplus RAF pilots apply for /offered jobs. Air force manning reduced, Money not spent on military, politicians happy.

Job still being done by professionals who care.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Ticked all the boxes,

If it was you, I think that we got some quite nice footage of the event; ISK might even give you a copy.

Duncs:ok:

[Hoots]

Are any positive news stories concerning the Nimrod being blocked by the MOD PR machine?

Still nothing on RAF or MOD website, despite Sky News deeming it newsworthy.

[Ken Scott]

To clear up any confusion from my last post: the C130J is 'taking on the role' of SAR in the Falklands when it takes over down there from the C130K which, of course, has been doing SAR for many years.

Despite what Bob Ainsworth said in the House of Commons about C130s doing SAR once the Nimrod's grounded neither the J or the K will be holding SAR standby in the UK, according to 2Gp.

Hope that clarifies things.

[getsometimein]

Well 2Gp had C130's on standby during the periods when Nimrods were grounded... So I dont see why they wont do it again for preservation of SAR Helo crews if nothing else.

[Ken Scott]

Well, we've been told we're not doing it, though that's not the same as can't do it!

[getsometimein]

Do C130's hold any kind of standby at all? Perhaps its just another thing to add to the list of ops that C130 covers.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Hoots,

It seems that the MOD/RAF listened; a report is now on the the MOD website.

Well, it was. Unfortunately, another death in Afghan has (rightly) bumped the story.

Duncs:ok:

[Hoots]

Totally agree with you Dunc, rightly so.

Maybe they did pay attention, glad they proved me wrong.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

And there's some footage of the rescue here:

Ministry of Defence | Video | VIDEO: Navy Sea King and RAF Nimrod rescue injured fisherman (http://mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Video/VideoNavySeaKingAndRafNimrodRescueInjuredFisherman.htm)

Duncs:ok:

[Ivan Rogov]

Quite a good news article from the MOD, shame it appears to have needed prompting. Was it Kinloss, the RAF or the MOD who didn't capitalise on it sooner?
BZ to the Seaking Crew that looked tricky, hope the Nimrod Crew de-brief wasn't too painful :E (fancy being on the wrong side of the helo for the money shot).
Nice to see maritimes finest Squadron mentioned too, Hic Et Ubique:ok:

[RumPunch]

Well on a positive note its the intention to have the MRA4 ready to take back the SAR responsabilities as soon as possible. Its all on the powers above and money but certainly wont be down to people not trying to get the aircraft into service. We are being asked a very difficult task with very little resources at present but getting the aircraft to operate safely from a groundcrew point of view will not be an issue and it will be done from us that I have no doubt.

Its all going to be dependent on the aircrew and there training.

[Ivan Rogov]

Slightly off topic-

Any Ppruners know what the disposal plans are for the MR2s? Which ones will go to which museums (some abroad hopefully?), which are for sale/how much and which will just be turned into coke cans :{ ?

How does it work, do the RAF contact those they want to take them, advertise widely that they are available or wait until it's too late and only the scrap man can move them?

Have the peeps at Bruntingthorpe been approached or shown any interest? Their Cold War collection wouldn't be complete without probably our most utilised Cold War aircraft. Surely it would be ideal as folk could be shown inside it too, always very popular at airshows with a massive queue (when we were allowed to open it up!), the tour lasted about 20 to 30mins, if we had two sets of steps it was easy to keep people flowing through. Maybe a couple of quid at the door on open days, always though it could have been a nice little earner.

After 40 years of hard service to the country it would be nice to see as many as possible get a worthy resting place. The next lot of MPA won't be available for another 40 years or more hopefully.

[getsometimein]

From what I can gather, 7 airframes are going to museums. They may or may not be whole, I know one is being cut-up for Inverness air museum. Think the rest are all going to fly to their resting places.

All other airframes are probably going to be chopped up and shipped out for scrap.

[Ivan Rogov]

Thanks, 7 preserved sounds pretty good.

[Strato Q]

Well on a positive note its the intention to have the MRA4 ready to take back the SAR responsabilities as soon as possible. Its all on the powers above and money but certainly wont be down to people not trying to get the aircraft into service. We are being asked a very difficult task with very little resources at present but getting the aircraft to operate safely from a groundcrew point of view will not be an issue and it will be done from us that I have no doubt.

Its all going to be dependent on the aircrew and there training.

RumPunch, your statement is incorrect and misleading. We are not taking SAR duties back before IOC or any other tasks, we are making best efforts to be available but with no commitment. Also, you be-little the task the groundcrew are facing in producing aircraft and flying hours. If the hours are available the crews will get trained.

[monkeytamer]

Good footage, from an excellent old girl, of a tidy SAR shout.

Good work fellas. :ok:

MT

[RumPunch]

RumPunch, your statement is incorrect and misleading. We are not taking SAR duties back before IOC or any other tasks, we are making best efforts to be available but with no commitment. Also, you be-little the task the groundcrew are facing in producing aircraft and flying hours. If the hours are available the crews will get trained.

Well thats a change from what we have been told yesterday from OC Eng. Its our duty and commitment to get back in there soon as MR2 leaves the job. Monday morning another get ****** for all engineers. Why does nobody have an idea what the hell is going on. If thats the intention then please pm me your position and I will happily pass that on come Monday

[nan2002]

No point in an MRA4 aircrew/groundcrew argument on this thread. The MRA4 will take SAR duties asap but no commitment to do so before IOC. The big boys are still wrangling over milestones in the introduction to Service so nobody can give you a definitive answer as to when each capability is to be declared. Anyone that tries to is just guessing or worse lying........