Private flying while commercially employed

[De_flieger]

Ive got a question for the more experienced here...is it realistically possible for someone working as a pilot to fly for a bit of fun on weekends at the same time? What I mean by this is, say I spend monday to friday flying warriors/chieftains/q400s/whatever, do employers allow those pilots who want to head to the local airport and fly a pa28 around just for the fun of it, to do so?

I understand that flying commercially for another operator would be a no-no, but do employers generally allow or prohibit solely private flying? And for those who have contracts that say "Pilots will not fly aircraft other than those owned by the operator" or similar, does this apply to the pilot solely in the course of their employment or for any flying at all?

Thanks!

[Lodown]

Good question D_f because in my opinion, there isn't enough of it in Australia. Fly in the USA and at almost any airport there'll be commercial pilots on their days off working on their aircraft, flying for fun or just jaw wagging. It gives the GA industry legs. It's a rare event in Australia to see the same thing, but it may relate in part, to the slightly different way that flight hours are summed. Not saying that one is any better than another, but the USA practice keeps a lot of focus in GA (particularly private flying) that is missing in Australia.

[yowieII]

Depending on operator, usually written in a manual or contract/eba etc. Just let them know, we aren't that backward downunda...........

[ab33t]

UK is pretty much the same as OZ not much of that going on after work.

[VH-XXX]

I still fly in my down time but I dont know many other people who do. It's very expensive just for a little bit of fun.

Now there's an argument you will struggle to win!

[an3_bolt]

My employer allows it.

HOWEVER:

They "own" my flight time limits under our contract and under normal ops it is all OK.

However - it could all turn very ugly if a roster disruption occurs that increases the stick hours (and it does!!!)

To be quite frank - I work hard enough at work and all I want to do on my days off is get away from airports and airplanes and see the family that I am "prostituting" myself to look after - flying privately does not figure in the equation one little bit any more.

Sorry - life with an ATPL is not what it used to be......

[The Green Goblin]

I don't know about you guys but I became a commercial Pilot so someone else would pay for my hobby. Why pay to fly when you can be paid to fly?

The exception is owning an aeroplane of course :)

You don't have to log the hours either (or keep a separate logbook like the ag boys)

[Goat Whisperer]

If you're a full time pilot, the operator has you for a maximum of 900 hours per annum (sometimes 1000).

If you want to do any private flying the hours will reduce your potential productivity for that company and you will need their permission. If you never get near your annual total that won't be a problem.

Many airlines have provision for private flying, mine has a policy where we apply for how many we want (ie 25 per year, so long as 50 below annual max) and it will usually be approved. Once I've flown my toy plane I tell crewing who note it in the flight/duty computer.

[wheatbix]

eocvictim if you're flying privately then there's no limit on your yearly hours, even if you alternate between private flights and operating under your employers dispensation.

The problem comes out if you started working commercially for someone else. Say one operator had dispensation for up to 1000 hours per year and another operator only 900, the minute you changed from the 1000 hour operator to the 900 hr operator your hours must be under 900 otherwise you can't fly.

[Sqwark2000]

In NZ, you can fly privately (even instruct) in your own time without affecting your annual flying limit for commercial ops.

Some guys fly the Warbirds & Southern Trust DC3's on commercial ops, these hours need to be reported to the employer and added to the flight & duty scheme so they are included in your 900/1000 p.a. limit.

It's like taxi driving, it doesn't stop you driving your personal vehicle without affecting your logbook hours.

[QFF]

if you're flying privately then there's no limit on your yearly hours, even if you alternate between private flights and operating under your employers dispensation.

Perhaps the crux of the question is - does private flying count towards the 900hr annual flight limit? I thought it did, but wheatbix's comment above seems to indicate not. Or did I misunderstand?

[Unhinged]

You don't have to log the hours either Bull****. All hours must be logged. All hours count towards the limitations for commercial ops

CAR 5.51 You must have a personal logbook
CAR 5.52 & Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Pilot Log Books (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD:1417522985:pc=PC_90100) You must record certain information about every flight you undertake
CAO 48.0 All private flying counts when calculating flight and duty time limitations for commercial operations


In regard to the original question, in my experience if I'm being paid on salary the company owns my hours and I need to arrange either an annual private flying allowance, or any specific flying I have planned; but if I'm on a casual rate I've just used the hours how I choose - except that flying for a competitor is always banned ! A friend of mine flies for the red rat and gets a specific annual amount allocated for non-company flying - I think it's 100 hours per year, but don't quote me on that ...

[The Green Goblin]

Quote:
You don't have to log the hours either
Bull****. All hours must be logged. All hours count towards the limitations for commercial ops

Legally yes, who's going to catch you if you don't?

[Unhinged]

who's going to catch you ?
If you worked for me and got caught doing undocumented private flying, I'd fire you on the spot and report you to CASA myself.

With an attitude like that, I'd have no confidence that you'd bother obeying any laws or company rules at all, and I certainly wouldn't trust you to fly my aircraft. Derr ...

[xxgoldxx]

get an RAA license ...

CAO's only apply to VH aircraft .. you could blast around in a high performance RAA aircraft for as many hours as you wanted..

Its a stupid rule... I could go and drive a semi trailer all day but I cant fly may mates RV for fun unless I tell CASA/Company etc etc

As long as I turn up fit to fly it should be none of their business...

[AerocatS2A]

That's one benefit of working for a company with an FRMS, no flight time limitations, only duty limitations. If the flying is not work then it doesn't count as duty and you can do as much as you like.

[maverick22]

Be careful with that one xxgoldxx, the CAO's do apply to RAA aircraft, but there are some exemptions. It's a bit of a grey area that one and depending on who you talk to you will get mixed answers on whether you can do it or not. Don't get me wrong, I believe that you should be able to fly for recreation whilst not at work, but after looking carefully at the regs esp CAO 48.0 and the CARs I was of the opinion that RAA time could be classed as private flying and as such would be counted towards your flight time limitations. I rang up my local CASA operations rep and asked him about it and he agreed.

[The Green Goblin]

Sounds like an instructor to me :ok:

keep a second logbook if it worries you :{

By the time you can afford to fly privately the last thing you want to be doing on your days off is flying! Especially with a wife and kids, and weekend (if you're home) sports etc.

[Lodown]

By the time you can afford to fly privately, the wife has taken the kids and run off with someone who's home more often. What else are you going to do: airport or the brothel?

[The Green Goblin]

It's cheaper to head to Thailand or the Phillipines :}

So a: Brothel

[40Deg STH]

Simple; Just send an email to Flt ops for approval and all is fine, infact they may even be envious.No airlines I've worked for would ever stop you. Perhaps just limit it to fit into work.
Eocvictim, relax private flying is for fun. I may happen to know an old, ex ag pilot or two who never got caught and now fly Boeings and Airbuses!!! ( I personally would not log Airbus time:))
Many Cathay pilots fly even airshows in pristine war birds.
No management will stop you if done correctly and their approval is really just box tick.
Enjoy

[Tankengine]

Qantas allows a max of 10hrs per month/100hrs a year, reported to them for the records.

[De_flieger]

Thanks everyone. Having had a ppl for a few years I now have an opportunity to get my cpl and make a bit of a career change (so any PMs of advice are more than welcome) but want to make sure I dont miss out on the sheer fun of taking a few mates for a flight on a sunny sunday afternoon!