EK(Emirates) whats the point joining? [Archive]

Modesh09

21st Jan 2010, 10:32

To all EK wannabees,
Been asked heaps of questions what EK is like in hotels and from friends

The Good,
The guys (fellow Pilots) really great guys !
Good and clean planes (fellow pilots leaving the flight deck clean)
The audi that drives you to and from home, if the car goes i resign
!
Not bad routes and always somewhere new to fly to

Bad
1) they mess around a lot with what we had been given when joined years ago, seem to just keep taking from us , but not really breaking our contract, (as the over time) just a FOM page that gets replaced.
2) fly your ass off so all these new places you go to you tend sleeping in the room,
3) layover money very well reduced and some places taken away,
4)Basicly you cannot plan you life or you future as they change your benefits daily , guys with kids in schools are bleeding , now the dewa bills on top of that , so as a FO you are squeezed a lot ! no savings and Dubai is not cheap anymore either.
5) long wait for the upgrade for new joiners , not that thats a bad thing but you really squeezed for money as a FO.
6)Warning letters or even getting fired is as easy as just walking out of your house , as soon as you get into the audi till you get dropped off you are not safe, Forget your hat at home and you will get a letter, take a photo of the plane you just flew - fired, walking through the security scanners at EK they start treating you like sh1t , you get shouted at and spoken to as if you are dirt, complain and you are the wrong one.
7)Junior cabin crew reports the pilots and everyone as this way they can get points with EK they think!
8)Dubai safe as far as crime goes- but you are NOT safe in your job and you cannot trust the police either , you tell them a girl got raped or hurt , she gets kicked out under her arse, you just look at the wrong guy and you will be jailed , NOT safe and NOT secure
ALL i can say if you do have a job , do NOT come to the middle east as these guys do NOT honour the contracts and they will treat you like a house maid !
Good luck to all , EK will just get worse this year , wait and see

GoreTex

21st Jan 2010, 12:07

modesh,
nobody will believe you just like you didn't believe it when you were warned, everybody who joined after 2003 shouldn't complain because it was all over the net how bad EK became, you own fault if you don't do a little research.

Fromagio

21st Jan 2010, 12:38

I dont think its that bad, I quite enjoy it actually. Its not perfect but where is!!!
Lifestyle is good, a lot of good flying and the company does look after you.
Thats my opinion anyway.

sexdriven

21st Jan 2010, 12:48

Goretex is correct. If you joined after 2003 then you should not complain about changing conditions as the precedent was already set.

Overall, still not a bad place to be in but remember that things are always subject to change. Unfortunately most of the change is normally for the worse.

High 6

21st Jan 2010, 13:58

I suppose the fact of the matter is that we are all adults and each individual will make the judgement call to join or not join EK based on their own personal circumstances.

With the amount of information given on these forums, one can hardly say they are not informed, however, EK can be a good transit point to gather ones thoughts etc.. before moving on. That would make it semi attractive, especially if your current situation is going tits up.

For my money, EK has certainly taken some major steps backwards from when I joined so many hot summers ago. Most of the what I read regarding the poor state of the working environment is true, the city of Dubai has gotten bigger but has lost it's soul and I seem to spend more time now reminiscing of the balmy nights camped at Mina Seyahi before the DIMC was built, than admiring another new skyscraper. Oops, was that another senior moment?? :eek:

surfnfly

21st Jan 2010, 15:43

Just recently got an invite for interview but not sure if it is worth the effort after reading on these forums. Lived and flew in Bahrain 12yrs ago so dealt with the Middle East before, but much has changed since. Plus have family this time.

ekwhistleblower

22nd Jan 2010, 01:48

You have to ask what guys are expecting when they join. You cannot change Dubai and underneath the veneer there is and undercurrent of vice and drugs but tell me where else this isn't the case. As to the locals being able to get away with anything, I would have said that was only partially true but having seen what happened to Shk Issar, it has made me less likely to stay for a full career if I can escape.

The reality of any of the expat jobs is that the days of being able to come to a country, live the life of Riley, save loads of cash and go home in 10 years has been long gone. The EK FO Salary in 1992 was about 15k, in 2000 about 17k (both with no flying pay), now it is 27k with a full months flying. Betweeen 92 and now prices in Dubai have increased by over 150% taking the official government figures. If you apply that to the FO pay in '92 it adds up to about 37k. The point is that a Captain now earns in real terms what an FO did in 1990 but that is probably true around the industry.

If you look at what EK gives it certainly isn't the worst but a demographic shift has caused problems. The school allowances are aimed at the Brit schools, the US schools can cost double; that is a serious issue if you are a septic with 3 kids. The time to upgrade has drifted from 18 months to probably 7 years. Essentially guys came to EK suffered a (back then) good FO salary for 2 or 3 years and got promoted to the land of riches. Now they will have to (in western terms) struggle for 6 or 7 years until they are promoted and then they will achieve a competitive global salary that is better than some and worst than the best.

The cost control and productivity measures over the last year have not been presented to the troops well but we all still have a job which is not the case at many other airlines. Coming onto PPrune and complaining isn't going to change much, what will is market forces. When other businesses start to expand and EK can't get the talent it needs it will up the package to attract recruits. Until then nothing will happen. However, the 90% that are on this site and think everything would be ok elsewhere need to wake up to the realities of the new airline business model. Low cost, low profit. As to fatigue, if you are unfit don't fly! Sadly many still will because they want the 45 AED/hour it brings. As long as that goes on the company knows cash is the real issue which they can afford to fix later.

A view from the other sand dune.:ugh:

Gulfstreamaviator

22nd Jan 2010, 05:18

You will be pleased to learn that EK has a non punative policy in regard to Flight Safety matters.

This was the statement made at the recent SMS seminar in Emirates Training Facilty Block B, to perhaps a hundred safety experts.

One can all rest soundly in our beds / bunks / bed spaces assured that should there be an incident, that EK will not dismiss us, but will investiage the incident, and put procecures in place to ensure enhanced safety.

Sleep well.

glf

Not from here

22nd Jan 2010, 09:05

What safety Culture, thought it was just a Department of fleet now:confused:

saywhat

22nd Jan 2010, 13:50

EK(Emirates) whats the point joining?

To feed the family.

allaru

24th Jan 2010, 00:44

Just a couple of stories that illustrate the crap that we have to put up with here. Ill try and keep it short.

A flight proceeds to destination A in the middle east. Another proceeds to destination B. On arrival at destination B the FO hands his training file to the Capt to be signed off for that sector, only problem is said Capt is not a training Capt. This flight is now grounded at dest B.

Capt on flight to destination A (who is a training Capt) is contacted by company and told to return to dubai via Destination B to pick up the pax.
Capt does as instructed.

After return to dubai, some time later, Capt is summonsed to the police station. (maybe run a red light, speeding, who knows)
Actually what has happened is that a local passenger on board has spat the dummy over the inconvenience of having diverted and used his contacts in the police to haul the Capt in and have him interrogated over the matter. And NO it was not a talking to it was an interrogation.

The horse turns up and is told to piss off so said Capt has to put up with this **** all day until he gets released with the help of his own North American embassy.

No apologies from the police, the company, the management NO NOTHIN.

Said Senior Capt is due for leave and has time to settle down, and on return resigns from his training position in protest.

Story two...

Two Capts proceed through security to enter the police compound (EK briefing).

Both set off the metal detector, police respond with their usual manners (“SHOES, WATCH”) pointing at one Capt shoes, and the others watch. One Capt has the gall to ask why one has to remove his shoes and one his watch.

Said 20 something year old police person takes exception to this scum bag infidel pilot questioning him, and takes his details, then invites him to the interrogation room for questioning.
As a result of the delay the Capt is removed from the flight, and told to go home to be assigned another flight.

Some time later the Capt is asked to return to EK briefing in uniform. He does so, and is then bundled in a police car and driven to a police station for a further round of interrogation.

In the course of having to fend for himself, being abandoned by the company as usual, and having to sign statements written in arabic, the most insulting bit was being marched into an office and being told to salute the police man sitting at the desk.

Welcome to the middle east, and emirates

btw I suspect the company has employed a few spin doctors in an attempt to counter the negativity they have caused, as some of the posts recently don't seem quite Kosher.

White Knight

24th Jan 2010, 02:44

Regarding story 2 allaru - I always heed advice I was given years ago as a young laddie... Never argue with airport police, customs, security or immigration... As you can see it just ain't worth it:rolleyes::rolleyes: Take off the damn watch and shoes or they WILL give you a hard time:(

PS slip on shoes are a lot easier and one of my best investments:}

Wizofoz

24th Jan 2010, 12:30

allaru,

VERY interested to hear your source for those two stories.

I haven't been here that long, but was here and in traing as a TRI when the incident with the student and non-trainer happened. I have NEVER heard anything about anyone being hauled in by the Police about it, nor about what was outlined in story number two.

Do you have first hand knowledge of either, or are you simply perpetuating Urban Myths?

Plenty of bad stuff happens here. VA getting his wife slung in Jail, the recent British girl getting arrested after reporting a rape, certainly the list goes on. That doesn't mean any BS story should be perpetuated if it just aint true.

climbtofl410

24th Jan 2010, 12:45

Story #2 is true. I know the pilot.

LLuke

24th Jan 2010, 13:29

You don't have the right to ask for an attorney?

If authorities/police have any questions about a flight, I would always refer to 'the company'.

It happens too many times that silly departments/agencies/prosecuters etc.. start their own investigation without having proper knowledge and/or authority to support conclusions they already made up.

allaru

24th Jan 2010, 13:40

'Heavens to Murgatroyd' wizza fuzz what does a guy have to do to be believed...there have been as many cadet/training captain incidents, as there have been 330 only rated pilots turning up outstation to find a 340 parked on the bay, or worse still a 777.

Wizofoz

24th Jan 2010, 15:49

Climb 2,

Thanks for that.

allura,

btw I suspect the company has employed a few spin doctors in an attempt to counter the negativity they have caused, as some of the posts recently don't seem quite Kosher.

If you make a quote like that, you really ought to be sure about your own facts.

Yes, there have been such incidents, as there have been at every airline I have worked for.

You story specified that a Captain was dragged in by the local plod because he obeyed a company direction. I find that hard to believe and the fact that you haven't said you have first hand knowledge of the people involved indicates to me that you are probably spreading a basless rumour.

Like I said, plenty of bad stuff happens in the UAE, and I take 410s word if he knows the guy concerned in your second story, but I don't think the first one is true, and you don't seem to be able to back it up.

ekwhistleblower

24th Jan 2010, 16:19

Government inflation figures. If you actually go around the various shops you can get all sorts of different deals but that is not the point; it is magnitude and the Capt to F/O angle is about right.

As to the training incidents. Yeah there have been a few but the police story is just that. As to the UAE being all bad, try pissing off a security guard at JFK and see what comes back. As to there have been as many cadet/training captain incidents, as there have been 330 only rated pilots turning up outstation to find a 340 parked on the bay, or worse still a 777.. That'll be not very many then but that is why the stars appeared.

It amazes me how a few guys wish to get the dirty washing out or even make it up and slag EK as if they are the worst employer ever. Try Qatar, JAL (15400 jobs gone), all the US majors who furlough at will, Sabena, SAS, Globespan etc etc etc. I'd rather have the job I have now than any number of other jobs around the industry for one reason alone; security. Many carriers didn't just not pay the increment they ditched 20% of the junior pilots and the pension schemes to boot.

Please tell me which jobs are so much better; why and why everyone isn't flocking to them all together. Korean, Turkish.....great if you need to commute and are prepared to eat sh1t to do so otherwise what planet are you on. Virgin, they looked after the crews nicely in 2002...not! I am not blinded to shortcomings nor any less frustrated due to some of the changes than the next guy but get real if it really is as bad as some say why would anyone stay?

I'll now listen to the usual Ed's stooge arguments or that I made a fortune in the property market blah but nothing could be further from the truth. My kids get a decent education, my family likes being here, I've got some good mates and get to escape every now and then for a holiday. I can't afford to go out as often as I used to and would love to be a banker getting a 10mil bonus but I am certain all the bitching in the world won't make it happen but it will make me a sad cynical tosser. My priorities will change, my kids will grow and I will eventually move on but I doubt the decision I make will have anything to do with going to a significantly better job but rather a lifestyle change for the family.

A view from the other sand dune.:ugh:

mensaboy

24th Jan 2010, 16:23

There is no point in joining EK (unless of course your are so desparate you can't feed your family)

I suspect that even pilots from areas of the world with a currency much lower than the DHS, and lifestyles (crime rates etc), not conducive to a happy existence....... will soon learn that Emirates and Dubai are not conducive to a happy existence either.

After a few years (months usually), the shine wears off and you realize you are trapped here and wish you never came. Honestly, Dubai is a nightmare in many respects.

Emirates Airline's treatment of pilots has to be in the bottom 5% of all airlines in the world, in spite of the fact, that they don't have to, based on economics and profit, but simply because they choose to do so!

Emirates Airline's approach to management of pilots is actually worse than companies who have somewhat justifiable excuses to destroy Terms and Conditions and hence lifestyle. EK does it because they can get away with it and they perceive it will increase their profits.

I have had a couple 'desparate' times in my airline career, but knowing what I know now about Emirates Airline, this place would never be on my list of options.

Seriously... it would take an entire book to explain the negatives about Dubai and this job. Yes there are some good points, but most of those are continually being eroded.

-death on the road is a possibility on each drive
-Police intervention that probably won't go in your favor regardless of the laws
-T&C's that change weekly, and always towards the negative
-FATIGUE FATIGUE FATIGUE
-a rostering system that favors the few and punishes the majority
-a rostering department that is not only incompetent, but also arrogant and UN-accountable, which coincided exactly with the time frame they were taken over by 'LOCALS' without a clue or regard for flight safety.
-****e layovers now, min rest and occasionally the worst hotels imaginable (NBO for eg.)
-a management team who decrees that we act as leaders, yet they have no concept of what leadership means
-corruption akin to earlier days of Gulf Air
-Flight Time Limitations that defy logic
-10 daily rants from the 8000 local establishments of religious zeal, ..... over Dolby Surround Sound speakers. It's mind boggling except it does achieve the goal of brainwashing
-Flying with generally good guys until you upgrade and fly with a surprising percentage of extremely inexperienced guys who are also handicapped because they are so bitter about their lives in Dubai. (understandable actually, but not conducive to Flight Safety)
-flying with the NEW generation of Emiratized cadets, who are about 50% less competent as previous generations of cadets.
-dealing with cabin crew who simply don't understand the chain of command, how to deal with issues and most importantly, would not perform admirably in an emergency scenario.
-very very very little time off, to interact with friends and family
-YOU will not have a good life in Dubai other than some good destinations but with minimum time off. But your life IN Dubai will not be a happy existence, regardless of how hard you try to take advantage of the perks. You will be too tired and pissed off to make the effort!
-Agreeably, there are really decent, intelligent and nice pilots and cabin crew at EK, but that percentage is declining as well. This company takes what they can get now, without due regard for the implications.

I could go on and on, especially regarding our T&C decline but most people already know about those facts.

I don't know ONE person who is working for Emirates Airline, who thinks this airline is headed in the right direction. That sentence should sum up everything about your decision to come here. Heed the warnings or suffer the consequences.

Dubai truly is a disgusting place for people with morals and values in life. If you are just passing through on the way to your next airline job, then perhaps your decision might be justifiable. Otherwise, RUN AWAY from this place as fast as humanly possible, haha

Just my opinion yes, and I truly hope I am wrong but for the life of me, I don't see a happy outcome for this place.

S.F.L.Y

24th Jan 2010, 17:05

Both set off the metal detector, police respond with their usual manners (“SHOES, WATCH”) pointing at one Capt shoes, and the others watch. One Capt has the gall to ask why one has to remove his shoes and one his watch.

Simply because the detectors shows if it comes from the shoes (floor level) or the watch (hands level) :8

Pilots are often complaining about the lack of knowledge of security staffs but some aren't obviously familiar with these basic tools:

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00MvJTBrythQkpM/LED-display-Walk-Through-Metal-Detector-VO-2000.jpg

BackpackPilot

24th Jan 2010, 19:13

some aren't obviously familiar with these basic tools That's no way to talk about the pimple-faced p!sswits and KFC-quaffing fat chicks behind the x-ray machines!

And please don't go ruining the thread with technical facts. (They ARE facts aren't they? Or did you draw that yourself?)

I'll have to check out the system after I walk through it tonight. Probably get arrested "for looking."

frankie777

24th Jan 2010, 20:23

Mensa. Great post. I 100% agree with you and by the look of it having been here probably the same amount of time as you I can see why. Knowing what I know now I would never have come even though I got the Command and ticked all the right boxes. The funny thing it isn't about the money it is everything else. i.e No leave. Night turnarounds before simulator, minimum days off with excessive flight hours, no leave and I could go on. I just know that friends of mine in Thomas Cook get treated better than we do these days and actually earn more money. If they help the company out they get rewarded properly. Asa result most guys are happy. Something our management could learn from.
Personally if I was desperate I wouldnt come here again. Choose Etihad or possibly Fly Dubai for the time being because one thing is certain if you come here you will be disappointed. It just takes a few years to reach that point.:ugh:

B767PL

24th Jan 2010, 22:10

And I thought EK would be a good company to work for.... I guess those don't exist anymore.

T O G A Boy

25th Jan 2010, 02:03

There was a time that pilots couldnt wait to join EK. They would lose many a night's sleep just dreaming of being an EK pilot and the dream of living in Dubai and the sunshine etc etc,,,
Today each and everyone is warning those EK wannabes.
Which leads me to think of 2 things..
1. Either we are tremendously greedy and ungrateful to what we have
2. That the company has changed drastically.

i Personally would take all these stories witha pinch of salt, cause we humans are known to add a bit of our own spices to a story to make it sound so interesting to the listening ear.

Although i have heard a lot of stories, i cant write it down here cause i dont have the first hand experience, nor the back up nor the proof...

Peace

Murrenfan

25th Jan 2010, 07:07

From Ed's mouth on my last training day: the 92 hours threshold will not come down. Never. The bidding system is now set to assign every pilot with absolute max number of hours, in other words, if you don't have any leave, simulator, OD, etc, you will fly up to the limit. Crazy roster practices like coming from Houston and flying to Manilla 48 hours later will continue since, according to him, this is now legal. When asked about FATIGUE, all he said is that they are not getting enough ASRs to justify any changes on the above policy. So if you're planning to come here, just be prepared to be in USA, far east and UK in a time frame of 10 days, and don't expect to spend much time with your family.
Mfan

Schnowzer

25th Jan 2010, 13:22

Actually I wouldn't be suprised if we become an East/West airline on a monthly basis like Cathay.

IXNAT

25th Jan 2010, 17:25

Simple question for those of us still here. Do you think the airline (EK) is moving/heading in the right direction? You can answer it with respect to commercially or how it treats its employees.

777boyindubai

26th Jan 2010, 05:20

EK is moving in the wrong direction with respect to its greatest asset. The people. Month on month, so many people are resigning even in these challenging times. The food on board is lousy, the CC's demotivated. Poor management of people the norm. Too many VP's and above who add no value. I hope EK wakes up before it is too late. Somehow, I doubt it. :ugh:

galactica

26th Jan 2010, 06:34

-After my interview, was driving home, I check my messages : Hi there, it s EK, can you start tomorrow ? I was not even home, lost of situation awarness. Bad sign
-First joining day, reach my new appartment in Dubai at 2:30 AM, was in class at 7:30 same day
-they make money, but, it s aint enough, we cut your contractual 3 % pay raise, and you know what ? All the pay raise we gave you the year of the largest Ek bonus, well, now, you will work for it. 17 % increase in working hours.
-Your wife was making a little salaty back home, you will need a maid to pick up the dust, and your wife won t have a job no more probably. Do you make more money ? 5 years for upgrade, well, it s still quit fast, but will you survive that long here ?
- Car crash, you are fair skin, it help a lot, you are a local, you are a winner, you just have to go to find the police station of the area where you crash and have them process your case while they are watching fool ball

- IF YOU HAVE A THICK SKIN, JUMP ON THE OFFER, YOU WILL NEED IT

High 6

26th Jan 2010, 10:50

Excellent post Mensa! That about sums it up.

One question, do you guys think not having a flying manager is part of the problem? In that all Flt Operations VP's and higher are non flying so in reality they are not in touch with the front line happenings.

You mention fatigue, flying with low experience F/O's, bad hotels etc.. if we had our senior managers experiencing these issues in real time maybe something would change.

This is only put on the table for discussion as I appreciate that the chances of it happening are as rare as an accident free day on Shaik Zayed Road.

S.F.L.Y

26th Jan 2010, 12:33

In that all Flt Operations VP's and higher are non flying so in reality they are not in touch with the front line happenings.

What about VP distributing meals, selling tickets, repairing aircraft, doing basic administrative work? Does an airline only have a cockpit frontline?

White Knight

26th Jan 2010, 14:42

He does say FLIGHT OPS VPS s.f.l.y.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

allaru

26th Jan 2010, 15:58

Hey Wizza Fuzz have you got to the bottom of story number 1 yet

If you are indeed a pilot here at EK, there are enough hints to be had in the posts to lead you directly to the source.

You have a company phone book don't ya, oh forgot the're too tight to print them any more. There is a PDF version on the portal to help you out.

When your done please tell us all what you found out.

So outrageous it couldn't be true...........

Wizofoz

27th Jan 2010, 19:52

allura,

I don't know what you're smoking, but if it is making you think that there is anything in your first post other than incoherent ramblings, I want some!

YOU'RE the one telling th story. If you have first hand knowledge of the incident, go ahead and give us all a clue.

IMHO the fact that you won't is indicative of it being a plie of B.S.

Put up or shut up.

allaru

28th Jan 2010, 03:11

I guess Ill have to all but spell this out Wooza fuzz. Take the words from the second post, (highlight right click copy) . Open the company PDF phone book paste the words as a search. When the answer is revealed give him a call I'm sure hell love to regale you with the FACTs of his incident. Actually the spelling may not be quite right but you should have got the hint by now.

Then Ill be waiting for you to tell us ALL here on PPRUNE what you found, before you dig a bigger hole for yourself.

Oh and if you haven't got access to a company phone list, well well what then...

Sheet House Rat

29th Jan 2010, 05:11

Potential new joiners at Emirates...

Due to the current "crisis" and "industry downturn" and "surplus of qualified applicants" that EK management reminds all of their pilots about on a weekly basis, be prepared to join an airline that will quickly cease to resemble the one presented to you during your recruitment.

IF you value seniority, i.e. rostering based on seniority, upgrade based on seniority, fleet transfer based on seniority, vacation allocation based on seniority, and anything else where time spent working for the company matters, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.

That being said, if you are truly desperate, maybe this is the place for you. You'll get a steady paycheck, decent benefits, housing, and you will get a chance to experience first hand how little a contract means in this part of the world. Oh, yes you're expected to adhere to your end of the deal, but the airline... not so much...

Keep lining up to join, and it will only reinforce EK Management's idea that they can continue to treat their employee group like unskilled workers, and suffer no consequence to the airline's continued operation. Only an inability to recruit qualified applicants will put a stop to this downward spiral.

The recession is more than half-way over. Think about that before signing a three-year contract with an outfit that will treat you like a third-class citizen the minute they've got you committed to being here.

There's enough info on other threads to corroborate this, you need only open your eyes.

Down in it,

SHR

Fellowship of the drink

29th Jan 2010, 05:55

Hear hear... I second Sheet House's comment

Do-27

29th Jan 2010, 06:23

Hi to all ek colleagues!,

Thanks for all your post about the current situation in Emirit....:}, unless one is totally desesperate to find a job this airline seems not to be the right place....:(.... why all these changes?????:confused:.....why pilots are not happy as they were before?¿......:confused:.

I am one of the posible new joiners of Ek:sad:...i wanted to received a good training, new interesting destinations and procedures....but i am really worried about the fatigue problem is going on over there:\.....

For shr, please, can u tell me if is mandatory to sing a 3 year contract with Ek?¿..:eek:..any other opcion?....

thanks to all of u!!:ok:;SAFE LANDINGS...:ok:

DMN

29th Jan 2010, 06:38

Total dispair here. Stay far, far, far away. If not for yourself, at least for your family.

flaphandlemover

29th Jan 2010, 06:41

@ DO-27

you are signing the contract once you decided to come...
The sheet of paper that you are signing is not even worth the money that it's written on.

So sign your 3 years contract and then just do a runner... Like loots of others have done it be4.

Emirates chanages my contract on a nearly-dayly basis....

So chill m8... just sign... it's worth nothing....

If you don't like it anymore... just bail out of the sandpit and start at a better place again...

EK went down the drain.... let's see what comes next but I doubt it goes the uphill road....

Ed is leaving soon and i guess Mr M MAHAGONY is already in the pits with new bright and way better ideas how to f.... us even more...

We will all say thank you when he f..... us and at least uses some lube....

Buddy, if you don't have a job... come and make some money... Bail out asap you have a better option and do a runner....
(easiest way and no hassle and trouble...)

Loot's of us are just on the jump...

I said it before...sh*&# goes always one direction... But when it's toooooo much it get's interaktiv and comes bk to you....

Ek will soon find out... The market is picking up.... ;)

TLavelle

14th Feb 2010, 01:52

are there any good things about this place? overnights, nightlife? Keep in mind that i am 27, single and i work for mesa, for the time being anyway,

flynhigh

14th Feb 2010, 03:10

Single 27 and working for Mesa.....You will love it at EK it's lot better than working for JO and it's better than flying CRJ or ERJ for next 10 years than make $65,000 a year. If I were you I would Take it.

atpcliff

14th Feb 2010, 07:39

Hi!

I was USA Jet/Trans States.

I would say single/27 EK is at least 10 times better than Mesa.

Only deal is how will U adjust to living in DXB???

cliff
NBO

atpcliff

14th Feb 2010, 08:01

Hi!

mensaboy:

What is the crappy hotel in NBO???

cliff
NBO

Pilotboy76

14th Feb 2010, 08:11

Tlavelle....I hate to say it, but coming here with all the negative press about this place, wouldn't be much different then when you decided to go to Mesa, right?
:E

Ramrise

14th Feb 2010, 09:07

Pilotboy76,

I follow your reasoning with regards to TLavelle. However, he may have some longterm career reason for going to the sandbox for a period of time.

IF he wants/needs some longhaul/widebody experience EK could be the ticket. As long as he remembers that he, by accepting their offer, also accepts whatever ELSE comes his way.

In other words: a means to an end?

Regards,

Ramrise

Marooned

14th Feb 2010, 09:30

Wet V2:

Manchester was a training flight with the wrong runway set in the FMC prior to the approach (two parallel Rwys 06 with the left one set up in the box with the right one in use). Not picked up in the approach brief.

Error not picked up until late requiring a go-around. GA flown according to FMC which was the wrong one, therefore turned left instead of right. One of those days.

F/O under training was sacked despite constant denials, basic outright lies from management. The lying continued even with the container packed up outside the F/Os door. F/O concerned had his family here with 3 or 4 kids with one on the way.

Nobody screws up on purpose like it was simple Human Error. Never the less we all could have learnt a cautionary tail and moved on. But, you have no recourse, no back up, no support. Once you are here and left any job you are at their mercy or lack thereof.

The 'human' element has been taken out of the management so we have to deal with this and other low levels of support on a daily basis.

There are other examples but I'll leave others to tell those but that V2 was the Manchester incident in a nutshell.

We all came here with the hope that it would be better for us and our families. As time has passed EK had declined below the expectations we set as a bench mark from our own experiences. Those who come now because 'it's better than what I've got now' will over time realize EKs capacity to erode terms and conditions, breech contracts so that eventually it will resemble the Ts & Cs from which you tried to get away from.

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 09:32

Is the accelerated captain program still in place for those who are captains when they apply?

What is Dubai like now, compared to before the financial crisis? Rent, school fees, availability of good schools, traffic, etc.

I don't need advice on the Middle East in general, the locals, the value of the local currency, etc. Been there before and seen most negatives as well as positives. I just want to know about present day Dubai, not the way it was two years ago.

EK Snorkel

14th Feb 2010, 10:10

Is the accelerated captain program still in place?

Well that was the joke of the day!

Mate, if you join EK now you will wait at least 6- 7 yers for a command if you are lucky. Irrespective of your previous experience ....
Do some research before you decide to come here.... you WILL regret it- I promise!!

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 10:26

I'll try again:

Is the accelerated captain program still in place for those who are captains when they apply?

What is Dubai like now, compared to before the financial crisis? Rent, school fees, availability of good schools, traffic, etc.

I don't need advice on the Middle East in general, the locals, the value of the local currency, etc. Been there before and seen most negatives as well as positives. I just want to know about present day Dubai, not the way it was two years ago.

I'm not asking if it works or not, I'm asking if EK has such a program.

saywhat

14th Feb 2010, 10:39

Is the accelerated captain program still in place for those who are captains when they apply?

No....But this can change again tomorrow.

Rent, school fees, availability of good schools, traffic, etc.

Rent - Paid by Emirates in company accommodation.

Schools are available, although you might not get your kids into the one you want. They are quite expensive. Emirates pays most, but you will have to put in a bit yourself..

Traffic.....The traffic is about the same as anywhere else in the world, however, the driving discipline is pretty poor. Expect to be quite defensive in your technique.

What is Dubai like now, compared to before the financial crisis?

There is a very tall building here that was not finished before the financial crisis....

Macrohard

14th Feb 2010, 10:41

Is the accelerated captain program still in place for those who are captains when they apply?

Yes, come on down ..... The water's nice once you get in ......:E

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 10:51

Do you have the option to choose your own housing with an allowance, or are you forced to take company housing?

I know schools used to be a problem, but searching other sites there seems to be a different situation now after the recent exodus of western expats.

Traffic must have eased some as well?

If you have nothing to say, then please don't.

GMDS

14th Feb 2010, 11:03

ManaAdaSystem

allow me to say something?

Your questions would find a clear answer, if gone through the search function. Or through the EK websites as a matter of fact.

Your condescending tone is therefore misplaced.

Please do come here and find out yourself, we desperately need collegues with such an attitude.
Once you discover the truth (which by the way is published right here as well), please come back to this site and report without changing your handler.

Pussinboots22

14th Feb 2010, 11:32

Dear Ek wannabes pilots,

I am sure that if you apply to Ek is because you can't find anything better.

if you get finally a job offer by ek, this is my advise:

1. Forget about company accomodation, rents in Dubai are a lot cheaper now and probably will be for a couple of years. You will make money out of it.

2. Do not buy a car because if you want to leave later on, you will lose a lot of money. Rent a car when you need it (it's cheap) or use taxis; Anyway, you will be using taxis all the time (no drink and drive in Dubai unless you like jail +deportation)

If you do this two things, you can leave Dubai anytime you want since the contract you sign is worth nothing.

And be ready for the probably worst rosters in your career (specially Airbus fleet). Don't be scared to call sick when your roster doesn't make sense, it is the only weapon pilots have against the company.

Cheers

Oblaaspop

14th Feb 2010, 12:11

Mana,

Out of interest, what command/total experience do you currently have? Let us know, and we can tell you if you qualify (in theory) for the accelerated upgrade programme.

And no you currently don't have an option to 'opt out' of company accommodation.

You rock

14th Feb 2010, 14:28

if you buy a propert worth more than a million Aed you can get the living out allowance, I have just done it

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 15:36

I have a tad over 10000 hrs total time with between 3 and 4000 hrs command time. Nearly all on EFIS, 737 size jets. Some wide body time, but no wide body command time.

I don't need to borrow money for a car, nor am I willing to do so. I don't need a Cayenne, a used 4X4, Pajero, Prado, Explorer or Jeep will do fine. Auto trader is full of them.
I don't need to send money back home, so the exchange rate is not a big concern to me. Not until I leave.
I don't need a villa, a 3 bedroom apartment in a nice location will be fine. This doesn't really matter if I can't opt out of the company program.
I don't have a pack of kids, so school cost will not be high.
I have worked in the Middle East before, for a worse company and for less money.
I know what it feels like to go to work and not be sure if you have a job when you get back to base, even if you have crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's during your flights.
I don't fight with security. I wear shoes without metal, I don't wear any jewelery, and I take off my watch and belt when I go through the detectors. I have done so in Dubai on many occasions without any problems.
I know the climate and I know the constant low intensity stress level that follow you everywhere you go in the region.
I know not to read the company memos before flight, but after. Any other practice is detrimental to flight safety.
I know when the store clerk says he will call you back, it will never happen.
I know what a Muslim country is, and I know how to watch my back and guard my steps.
I know, as far as it is possible, how the legal system works. I have been subjected to it.
I have my embassy on my speed dial.
I know the Middle East is no heaven, but to me at least, it was not hell.

I've done some research, but I don't believe everything that is written on this forum. It is dominated by those who don't, not those who do.
I have not found any information on the accelerated program anywhere, so I ask.

I do get some factual information, so thanks to those posters.

GoreTex

14th Feb 2010, 16:49

mana,
yes, the accelerated upgrade policy is still in progress, a 737 type command experience is great, they never had pilots with such enormous experience, I am sure you will be a well deserved captain in no time and bypass all the below standard F/O's in no time.
emirates needs you, come over and teach us how to fly airplanes.

GoreTex

14th Feb 2010, 16:53

oh yea, I forgot, but to have your embassy on speed dial helps a lot, because your country is just waiting to bail you out any time, your country doesn't care about diplomacy and your embassy is just here to help YOU and not do do oil deals or else with the UAE.

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 17:39

And Oh, I forgot to tell you I have spent many hours in the cockpit with copilots who seem to think they have a God given right to the left seat, and that it is not something they would have to qualify for.
Often they think captaincy is about how you fly and handle an aircraft.
That only shows me they are in the right seat. Literally.

puff m'call

14th Feb 2010, 18:27

Well welcome to Emirates then. :eek:

EK Snorkel

14th Feb 2010, 19:55

I'll try again:

Is the accelerated captain program still in place for those who are captains when they apply?

I'll try again:

No! Mate, if you join EK now you will wait at least 6- 7 years for a command if you are lucky. Irrespective of your previous experience ....

And by the way 737 experience does not impress many in EK. If you join EK do us "left seaters" a favour and don't complain about not getting your command. You have been warned. Thanks

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 20:15

So far I have 2 yes, 2 no and one "in theory" about the program.

I'm not trying to impress anybody, I got a question and I answered it.

If you lot are representative of most EK drivers, the EK cockpit must be a really fun place to be...

ManaAdaSystem

14th Feb 2010, 22:24

No, but my todger is huge! Does it help?

Some say yes, some say no, and they all do it in the same cheerful way, so who to believe?

You guys are a sad, sad bunch! Can't stay and can't leave. All you have left is to blow steam on PPRUNE.
So, why do you stay? Got too many apartments to pay for? Can't find something better?
It must be something keeping you in the sandpit. Please, do tell us what it is!

jinglied

15th Feb 2010, 02:07

Hey there "Man's Aid"...

With a name like that, you'll fit in well here. I guarantee you will be "accelerated". Depending on your orientation, you might even enjoy it.

You're post about this forum being "dominated by those who don't". Read your own words, that very post is full of things you "don't" do. And with your tone/stance, why do you even ask these questions? And the comment about the Embassy on speed dial, that's ridiculous.

Like "Macrohard" said.....Come on in!! The water's fine!!!

Have a few smarts will ya?...Read between the lines.

Jinglie'd

fatbus

15th Feb 2010, 02:23

Accelerated commands are and always will be an option for the company as well as DEC's . If you think that EK wont use that option , even when there is plenty of FO's waiting, you are mistaken.
To the FO's who think the right seat is there right , so be it, just look at the pass rate of late , you too can be one. There is going to be a lot of permanent fo's real soon.
With recruiting having problems and upgrade failures, where do you think the Captains Ill come from? Accel and DEC.
EK is in the same place they were 3 years ago, the only good thing is they might toss in some cash .

Oblaaspop

15th Feb 2010, 05:56

gliderdriver

15th Feb 2010, 08:25

Hey Manada...
'
You must be smoking something or your are totaly an Id..t. I can't find any other explanation base on what you wrote..

:E:E

Just another "litle man" at EK.. Oh well...Lately the level of stupidity and the BS is going to brake another world record..

ManaAdaSystem

15th Feb 2010, 08:50

Well Mada, the sad thing is, I was actually going to give you a sensible answer to your questions......

However, looking at the tone and attitude of your posts, it appears you are a rather unpleasant little man with a large chip on your shoulder, so I won't!

What I will do instead, is pass your experience profile to 'a mate' in recruitment so we can keep a good look out for you

I have tried to ask a few valid questions and I have tried to keep this conversation on an adult level. The answers I got could have been made by 14 year old juveniles. And you say I got a chip on my shoulder?

I've had to wade into the gutter to stay level with these "professional" EK pilots. Just about the only one who had anything resembling an adult answer was you. And you want to use my answer against me???

Do be careful though. When you throw the net out, you may just catch someone who is not me.

The thing is, I've seen it all before. "Don't come here, you've been warned". Have a look at treads about Qatar, Etihad, Gulf Air. Going back a few years the same stuff came from expats in Singapore. I do believe you find quite a few of them in the Middle East now. Some of the SIA expats actually threatened those who asked for information with physical violence if they came.
Why? There is a thought that if enough pilots turn down the jobs, T & C will improve. The company will change. The sun will be brighter. I will get my command faster. Whatever.

I have yet to get a serious answer to my questions, and I still wonder why, when you hate the company, hate the country, hate the culture, hate the job, hate the other guy who is occupying "your" seat, why do you stay?

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, but I'm getting one as we speak.

NautiFlyer

15th Feb 2010, 10:26

Mana,
This thread seems to have turned away from the original intent, and has focused on your one question about accelerated command, and apparent question of your attitude... In an effort to get back on track and simply answer your question...
The answer is NO... there is currently nothing in place for "Accelerated Command".
Personally, I was given the big hand shake and pat on the back along with assurances I'd have a command within 12 months of being here from the recruiting folks... based upon my experience, etc. Yes, I had 11 years of command, 10,000 plus hours, and 5,000 command hours all on heavy jets before coming here...
Currently there is a REQUIREMENT for 3000 hours in type... before you are eligible to upgrade.... for me with no Boeing experience... I basically went from "only 12 months mate..." to "Sorry mate, we don't do that anymore"... and that's where we stand now...:ouch:
I've talked twice now with senior mgt. about this requirement... and there is no budging on this condition... 3000 hours time in type.... trust me, if that requirement were to change, there would be a group of folks here at EK who, with tons of command experience on 74's, MD's, etc would be jumping at that position before you got your mitts on it. (But I don't expect that policy to change anytime soon)
As for coming here and doing your "penance" while awaiting a command... hey, Good Luck... it's all in the attitude you bring, and how big of a bitter pill you are willing to swallow.
This place is not Nirvana... nor is it some cr@p hole cargo carrier from deep in the Congo... But what I would surmise is that it is being "sold" as something that it once was... NOT what it has currently become... and that is , just another carrier trying to squeeze every nickel it can get away with out of the employee and run with that ball as long as they can get away with it.
There are plenty of really decent folks here... and we all pine over the good old days... and what aviation once was... now unfortunately, I don't care where you go... it's all turning to hell.... same old corporate shenanigans, etc.
If I could characterize EK to you in one way, I would describe it as a "Venus Fly Trap"... Lot's of pretty airplanes.... the smell of an early command... and then once you go to taste the fruit (flower)... well,... by that time, they have you by the "short hairs", and you just wait and get digested.
It's just like every other place... don't come here with any exceptional expectations.. the mill will wear you down until you either get fed up and leave, or you turn into a zombie and continue to live the "digested" lifestyle...
Enough "ruminating" from me... back to my hole in the ground...:\
NF