WW5603 - BmiBaby 5603, EMA-BFS, Cancelled 17/01/10

[redED]

I have a friend who has just turned up at the airport this evening to be told her flight (WW5603) has been cancelled and to pitch back up tomorrow morning to get another flight.

As i understand it (and according to EC Regulation 261/2004 - which established common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights) she is entitled to her accomadation for the night and subsequent airport transfers to be paid for, however BmiBaby have denied this.

Am i right, can anyone help me?

[davecr]

It depends on the reason for the cancellation... and the airline. (you will find some of the more expensive airlines will look after you a lot better in times of disruption than lo-co's. This is from experience as a passenger not my current job!)

Dave

[chrystall]

yes I understand they should hotac/transport and feed her and then give her compsensation under euro regs

[The Real Slim Shady]

In the event of flight cancellation or denied boarding, the passengers concerned have the right to:

* reimbursement of the cost of the ticket within seven days or a return flight to the first point of departure or re-routing to their final destination;
* care (refreshments, meals, hotel accommodation, transport between the airport and place of accommodation, two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails);
* compensation totalling:

- EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;

- EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;

- EUR 600 for all other flights.


Info is here (http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/consumers/protection_of_consumers/l24173_en.htm)

[Cymmon]

Probably wouldn´t get that with Ryanair, there would be a decent reason for non running. Outside of the airlines control etc......

[WindSheer]

The only reason hotac is not offered is when the reason falls under weather or 'force majeure' i.e nature or acts of god!

If it has been cancelled due to a tech a/c, lack of crew or some other (probable) reason, hotac and compensation has to be offered.
HOWEVER.....tell your friend to collate all the details and demand FULL compensation at a later date!!

Lo-Co scum...:mad:

[redED]

The only reason hotac is not offered is when the reason falls under weather or 'force majeure' i.e nature or acts of god!

Apparently they were advised the aircraft was stuck in Prague thus it was an "act of god".

I'd understand this excuse if the act of god impacted this sector but not previous ones.

Anyone know what conditions at the airfield were like in Prague today, it's currently giving light snow, mist and a somewhat contaminated runway from the snow.

[plaincrazy]

The BFS-PRG route is operated by a W pattern CWL based aircraft and crew. Unless they did an aircraft swap i think they could be telling her porkies.

[Ste_P]

Hows about the fact the aircraft probably does EMA-PRG-EMA-BFS-EMA?

Would be careful about shouting off about it as folk on here believe them to be telling "porkies".

I can tell you for a fact we (another operator) had an aircraft stuck in PRG for 3 hours yesterday due SNOCLO, which if the same has happened to Baby then it would be due to Force Majour.

Having just had a nosey it looks like their EMA-PRG actually diverted to VIE yesterday, and had to await PRG re-opening before continuing back to PRG.

[WindSheer]

There you go then..if snow was the reason, then no compensation is offered.

Make sure you gather the facts!

[The Real Slim Shady]

The difficulties on the PRG sector would have no bearing on the BFS sector. The rotation is an administrative / operational choice: the lady was booked on a flight which was canceled for reasons which did not relate to either her departure point or destination.

Baby can claim that it was due to snow, but the reason the BFS did not operate was because there was no aircraft available to operate the sector: slightly different take on things.

[Gibon2]

There's an interesting wider question here. For compensation purposes, when and where does an originally weather-related delay or cancellation stop being related to the weather?

Obviously, if your flight is cancelled because the airport you are departing from is closed because of snow, that is weather-related, so no compensation.

I'm guessing that most airlines would also argue that if due to weather the aircraft operating your flight is unable to leave its airport of origin to fly to your point of departure, that is also a weather-related cancellation, so no compensation.

But how far does this extend? If a flight is cancelled because 48 hours ago on the other side of the world, bad weather prevented a departure and messed up aircraft and/or crew positioning, does that still count?

I was recently booked on a BA flight from Sydney to Bangkok that was delayed by over 12 hours because of the bad weather in London. The weather in Sydney was fine, and the actual weather delay had occurred a long time ago, at an airport far, far away. As it happened, I was able to get on another flight, but I wondered what BA's position on compensation would have been.

[The Real Slim Shady]

. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

The critical wording is "all reasonable measures" and how that is interpreted.

Also the contract is for a specific flight so the previous flights should have no bearing on that contract. For example, if your 747 has an engine failure going in to SYD it would be reasonable to expect BA to have another aircraft available at LHR to take over the flight the SYD aircraft would have rotated in to.

It would be reasonable to assume that an airline as big as bmi baby, given its relation to bmi and LH, would have a spare aircraft to cover for reactionary cancellations. bmi always had a service backup available; Ryanair have spare aircraft at selected bases to provide backup, why not baby?

[The SSK]

Reg 261 has two strands - the duty of care and the monetary compensation. The duty of care (refreshments, meals, hotac) applies in all cases. The monetary compensation provisions apply if the cancellation was for reasons that the airline could reasonably have foreseen.

Your friend should have been offered the hotel. As for the compensation, she might say yes, the airline would say no, the case would be referred to the National Enforcement Body who would make a ruling; if both sides continued to disagree it could end up in court.

[redED]

Here's the reply from [email protected]:

In response to your enquiry regarding flight cancellation, we would like to inform you that, under the EU Regulation on air passenger rights (Regulation 261/2004), whenever your flight is cancelled the operating air carrier must give you:
alternative transport or re-routing to the final destination at the earliest convenience and subject to availability, or offer reimbursement of the full cost of the unused ticket segments (with a free flight back to the initial point of departure, when relevant).
full assistance (meals, drinks, communication facilities and a hotel room for the night, if necessary) even if the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances.
Compensation is possible under certain circumstances in case of cancelled flights and varies from 250-600 euro depending on the kilometres of the flight. Please note that compensation may be reduced in some circumstances (see articles 5 and 7 of the Regulation). However, airlines can in some cases invoke extraordinary circumstances and be exempted, but they will be obliged to inform passengers about the reason for the cancellation. The airline's written statement regarding the incident could subsequently be used in court proceedings and it will be up to a judge to decide whether the air carrier put all possible measures in place to prevent this situation from happening.

So despite Baby's stance they should have provided hotel accomodation and transfers regardless forthe reason for the delay.