Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

[Mr.Buzzy]

I watch passengers carry cigarette lighters (ignition source) onto aeroplanes every day.

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[SeldomFixit]

A very high percentage of your " Security staff " come from....................never mind

[Mr.Buzzy]

most airports have a "tradies door" that permits people in overalls to walk airside without much more than a casual glance at an ASIC from a disinterested contract security guard, yet if aircrew approach the same door they are turned away. Can I wear overalls too?

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[Mr.Buzzy]

after jumping through security hoops (that vary from place to place) I conduct a walkaround of my aeroplane and stop to chat to any number of unscreened airside workers. In full view of the public that you are taking for fools!

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[Aerohooligan]

Hate to be the one to further encourage the bees in your bonnet, but I recently qualified in Dangerous Goods Acceptance (as opposed to Awareness), and as it turns out cigarette lighters are permissible - only on a passenger or crewmember's person (not in their bagggage). Sounds backwards, I know, but that is the nature of security regs in this country, as you so rightly point out. :ok:

[Trent 972]

What mr flappy said.
After being 'randomly selected' again, whilst in uniform, I asked the security person "why do you pick out the crew members all the time". His reply was, "because we have to do a certain number of searches per hour and you guys aren't allowed to complain. It's just easier this way".
Walking through BNE security recently with my wife, she asked me what the security person with the wand does. I told her to smile at the lady and she would find out. She did, and she did.
So if you want to get bomb sniffed at security, just smile at the operator and they'll pick you because you look easier. Frown and scowl and they'll likely ignore you as you pass by. Of course they will deny this, but after the umpteen dozenth time it's happened to me, I'm convinced.

[apache]

Flappy and Trent....

I suggest you have a close read of the aviation security regs, Australia.
My understanding of them is that they are NOT allowed to wand,search(read HARASS) Air Crew IF there are members of the public that they COULD stop instead.
IF you are the only ones going thru security, then they have every right to ask you,preferably in english, to submit to swabs etc.

LIGHTERS are permitted to be carried on ones person as per IATA DGR table 2.3a

[Pinky the pilot]

and you guys aren't allowed to complain

Trent 972; I wonder what would have happened if unsmilingly, you had looked right into the security blokes eyes and replied
''Wanna bet?''

G'day Apache. Had any garlic bread lately?:E

[Keg]

After being 'randomly selected' again, whilst in uniform, I asked the security person "why do you pick out the crew members all the time". His reply was, "because we have to do a certain number of searches per hour and you guys aren't allowed to complain. It's just easier this way".

Given that this indicates that the selection of people to screen is not random then a letter of complaint should be written. :suspect: I haven't asked them recently but I will next time I'm 'got' and if that is the response then I'll send some paperwork in.

Of course, eventually the word will filter down to the screeners and instead of giving us the honest answer they'll come back with the 'random' response. :rolleyes:

[Trent 972]

Pinky, I will not post QF internal communications on a public website, but the memos from 'on high' have decreed that we will submit meekly to any security screening request, as is rightly so. The point I was making is that 'Aviation Security' is not best served by continually selecting aircrew in uniform to be subjected to testing because we are 'easy'. The screening officer records the number of people submitted to swab testing, if that figure also indicated if it was a uniformed aircrew person as opposed to joe public who was screened, then maybe a more representative cross section of threats to aviation security might be selected, rather than who makes the screeners job the easiest.
Apache, I've got more than enough important reading to keep up with now than to read all that crap, especially when I can't/won't argue about it with anyone in public anyway. I'll just post here and hope some journo might think there is a story in it.
Keg, what's the point of complaining. I can see the reply now, can't you.
Just like arriving into LAX at customs, a very formal request, "Sir, you have been randomly selected....." and nothing changes.

[Mr.Buzzy]

there is no difference in the alloy metal permitted on a childs pram yet prohibited on my blunt edged bottle opener.

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[Mr.Buzzy]

a wheelchair is permitted past with only a quick look over yet a roll of sticky tape in my work bag required the "professional opinion" of a supervisor.

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[Icarus53]

Serious question - can anyone tell me why we now have to present aerosols for inspection? This seemed to creep in at one particular port and now most seem to have followed suit. Aside from the international regs on GLAs, I cannot find anything to suggest that screening of aerosols for domestic flights is required, nor can I figure out what security benefit is obtained.

On asking to see said aerosol, guard glances at it and says "fine". On questioning staff about the requirement, I am offered anything between a disinterested "Don't know" through to a belligerent "We're just doing our job SIR".:suspect::ugh:

Someone once told me that they had to check that the cap was on the aerosol as otherwise it constituted DG. If this was the case, I presume all security staff have been trained in DG Awareness and should be issuing some sort of paperwork that certifies my deoderant as being safe to fly.

None of the Government required signage at security points makes any mention of a requirement to remove aerosols, nor do any of the regulations mention it.

My questions therefore: 1) Who was the git that told these morons that they should be checking for aerosols; and 2) Which git do I speak to in order to have them stopped?

(Today's rant brought to you by Rexona, and my realisation that if I start in on any of the other stupid c&#p that passes as security procedure in Australian airports, I will have an ulcer and a coronary before leaving the keyboard).

[Murray Cod]

How about buying duty free booze at KL. You purchase it , it dissapears and then it's delivered at the departure lounge in a plastic bag with a sticker on it for you to carrry on. Checked by who?
But nail clippers at Australian domestics are more of a concern , you could chew through a 737 spar in no time with those babies.
MC

[Trent 972]

Icarus53
Answer (http://www.vaustralia.com/cms/groups/groundoperations/documents/internetcontent/u_001265.pdf)to your question bought to you courtesy of VAustralia. About half way down. (Division 2.2 = Non-Flammable and Non-Toxic gases) You're probably more interested in the next line tho'.
regards

[Dave Incognito]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

....at regional airport terminals, the 10ft high steel bar & barb wire topped fence with security coded gate is only a deterrent for those too lazy to walk 50m (where the remainding 5,000 meters of airport perimeter is guarded with waist high fencing wire).

[Long Bay Mauler]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

I consistently walk past security staff who have their backs to the area that I walk through.Watching what? I do not know.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

my favourite party trick that both my colleagues and I like to do is to shout "morning" quite loudly to those guards who happen to be asleep when I walk past at 4 in the morning.

:ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

but the memos from 'on high' have decreed that we will submit meekly to any security screening request

Fine. But I'd still inform the Security bloke that I would be lodging a formal complaint! His remarks to you indicate that he/they regard Flight Crew as an easy mark. But then again, I'm not a Qantas employee. Never will be either.

as is rightly so.

Respectfully disagree with that.

[Howard Hughes]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

I fly an aircraft full of knives, scissors, needles, etc... not to mention what is in my flight bag! ;)

Yet I am required to pass through security screening, while ambulance officers are allowed unscreened onto the apron...:rolleyes:

[YPJT]

All very valid points. How many though bothered to respond formally to the government's Green Paper on aviation policy?

[Trent 972]

To quote the doyen of parliamentary enquiries
Sir Humphrey: Well Minister, if you ask me for a straight answer, then I shall say that, as far as we can see, looking at it by and large, taking one thing with another in terms of the average of departments, then in the final analysis it is probably true to say, that at the end of the day, in general terms, you would probably find that, not to put too fine a point on it, there probably wasn't very much in it one way or the other as far as one can see, at this stage.

[Flyingblind]

Trent 972, Exactly!

We allow this to happen through our acceptance of this inefficient and idiotic system and our trust that it is somehow going to deter a motivated terrorist!

Somehow I don't think the next major attack will be by air, methinks a nice big ship sailing into a city harbour with some rather nastiness in her hold is the go.

[Super Cecil]

Flyingblind pontificatedSomehow I don't think the next major attack will be by air, methinks a nice big ship sailing into a city harbour with some rather nastiness in her hold is the go.
Have you noticed since you posted that statement a van parked opposite your place? Phone have a funny background noise at times? Have you practiced holding your breath for the "Legitimate interrogation technique" now used for terror suspects? Your ASIO file is on the table being amended now :}

[Dog One]

Have you ever noticed that when you are running late to get to the aircraft, you will always be selected for the explosives test. When you have plenty of time, you just walk through!

[Icarus53]

Trent - Nice work and appreciate the response.

If we accept then that the crack troops of airport security are indeed inspecting our aerosols for DG purposes (and that they have been suitably trained for that purpose), it can only be a matter of time before they begin:

1) Inspecting spare laptop/PED batteries to ensure adequate covers are in place so as to prevent short circuits;
2) Confirming that said batteries have an output rating in the range 100-160Wh;
3) Checking hair curlers for fitting of suitable covers to the heating element; and
4) Physically confirming through demonstration that all matches are not "strike anywhere".

Bugger - now I've gone and given them ideas too!:oh:

[Mr.Buzzy]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

The tiny screwdriver attached to my house keys (that I use to tighten my glasses) is not as sharp or as long as the stainless steel pen that I'm permitted to take airside yet one of your goons took the screwdriver too.

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[frigatebird]

Hey Ic, don't feel bad, somebody's got to provide the ideas in a growth industry. Just a pity you can't patent your Intellectual Property contribution.. ;)

[Mr.Buzzy]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...

last week, during my walkaround, I almost tripped over an engineers toolbox filled with things that would send your goons into a frenzy!

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[NOSIGN]

... because the FLIGHT CREW (!) have to pay and display (bi-annually) an expensive ASIC card whilst the passengers that are escorted airside only need pay for their tickets! :ugh:

[NOSIGN]

... because YBDV has a high security perimeter fence :D

[68+iou1]

I carry a photo of a crash axe in my jacket pocket. Every time they stop me, I point out how pointless this exercise is. They don’t like it!
:}

[Sunfish]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because.

You don't screen the kangaroos that regularly infest certain regional airports.

[gutso-blundo]

Dear Minister, Your airport security is a farce because...

Your goons wouldn't let me through the gate because I was carrying my hook knife and leatherman (despite being in uniform at the time), so in full view of said goon I walked 50m to another gate where my colleagues were carrying through automatic weapons to the already armed aircraft and went through that way.

[Oakape]

With smoking not permitted on most, if not all, aircraft these days, what do passengers need lighters & safety matches for anyway?

[Cirrusly]

Being "checked" by security before passing into restricted airside area only to be denied access into the terminal sterile area.

[amishtechie]

CharlieRomeoGolf: "Being "checked" by security before passing into restricted airside area only to be denied access into the terminal sterile area."

Hit the nail on the head! I JUST WANT A COFFEE!!!! :ugh:

[Super Cecil]

You all are a mob of whingers, you should be worshoping lil Johnny Howard. Look how he has made this country safe from terror, none of you have seen terrorist behind any of these security measures or walking around Aircraft have you? (You didn't before but that's beside the point). Just admit it's the greatest thing done for aviation (At least security companies/jobs for certain minorities employed at airfields/fencing contractors in regional areas and providers of security passes) in Australia. :8 Stop yer whingin, it's now life as we know it Jim.

[werbil]

Sorry for the thread drift, but

Aersols - now let me see - MACE, PEPPER SPRAY, CAPSICUM SPRAY. All weapons IMHO.

[PyroTek]

while ambulance officers are allowed unscreened onto the apron...:rolleyes:with scalpels, needles and sedatives....:ok:

[Ultralights]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because... i can carry 100 Kg or more of whatever i like into the "secure" area of most terminals in australia simply by going up the stock loading elevator from the under terminal loading bay, with no security whatsoever in visual range. not to mention my loaded van/small truck i just parked under there.

[sprocket check]

Aerosol, just about any aerosol + cigarette lighter = flame thrower.

Pencil = deadly weapon

It is impossible to protect an aircraft unless pax are loaded in their undies, fully x-rayed and strapped down.

[Cactusjack]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because

1) You are a Politician - a complete tool who knows nothing about Aviation
2) Any idiot could drive through any of the large airports chain wire perimeter fences and park a vehicle loaded with the bad stuff under the wing of a large jet before the security guards have woken up or the ADF have left the comfort of their coffee room and television programs to investigate
3) All the larger AUS airports within your 'portfolio' sit next to the ocean where inbound jets fly a few hundred feet above trawler masts, easy pickings for any fruitloop who can rustle up a SAM from somewhere.

'Safe skies NOT,for all'

[PyroTek]

This is why CASA give us so much paperwork to fill out, so we don't have time to fly before last light! Safe skies for all indeed!

:ok:Pyro

[eeper23]

It is impossible to protect an aircraft unless pax are loaded in their undies, fully x-rayed and strapped down
Sir, there appears to be a rather large package in your pants. A strip search is going to be involved. :}

[GADRIVR]

"Sir, there appears to be a rather large package in your pants. A strip search is going to be involved. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif"
or
Sir, is that a canoe in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me??!!.......oh....it is?! Well....want to come back to my place then?:E:O

[psycho joe]

An airliner catastrophe is more likely to be caused by cost-cutting; Rather than whatever metal sh!t the manufacturer put in my shoes. :hmm:

[my oleo is extended]

Pyscho joe,
Try kevlar caps in your boots. It is more expensive than steel capped boots, but less of a hassle when passing through the detectors. Plus if somebody cuts loose with an AK-47 in the terminal and you get shot in the foot, you will keep your toes ! Hey thats a good idea, perhaps Anthony Albancheese will include that recomendation in the 2010 White Paper ??

[bilbert]

Dear Minister
As aircrew in a queue in a regional airport, I watched a small kid wearing a back pack full of explosives (!), step around the metal detector and walk in to the secure area apparently unseen by the preoccupied security professionals. I was about to say something but then, .... airport shutdown probably 4 hrs ... miss my flight .... upset hundreds of travel plans ...... was he really a risk. Realised that security b-s had so alienated me they lost my cooperation. That's not good Minister

[Taildragger67]

Quote:
After being 'randomly selected' again, whilst in uniform, I asked the security person "why do you pick out the crew members all the time". His reply was, "because we have to do a certain number of searches per hour and you guys aren't allowed to complain. It's just easier this way".

Given that this indicates that the selection of people to screen is not random then a letter of complaint should be written.

I rarely venture into threads such as this, but... in order to check the 'randomness', could a union person not do some monitoring of this? That is, watch a checkpoint for a period and see what proportion of aircrew are checked?

Doubtless this would require some sort of approval so as to allow airside access but would this not be granted by the airport operator (rather than the security point operator)?

[dkaarma]

With smoking not permitted on most, if not all, aircraft these days, what do passengers need lighters & safety matches for anyway?

Because tobacco companies donate rather large sums of money to political parties.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

...because RA-Aus people don't need ASICs.

[superdimona]

If RAA pilots don't need ASICs for a particular situation, then neither do GA pilots (use an AVID)

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

...or AVIDs.
ie No security check needed unless you hold a CASA licence.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Because tobacco companies donate rather large sums of money to political parties.

No, because smokers pay for approx 60% of the public health care system.

Why do think they haven't banned it? Same reason as for pokies. THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY! F:mad:CK doing the right thing!
(Yes, I do pay for all you "healthy" bastards!!):}

[TLAW]

Dear Minister. Your airport security is a farce because...a large number of baggage handlers aren't Australian citizens and are employed by contract companies at low wages without security clearances (at least initially.)

[jammydonut]

I regularly go through screening throughout the world carrying Diabetic syringes and needles...I have never been stopped or questioned