Haven't got your choice of meal available - why does this happen?

[silverelise]

VS200, LHR-HKG, Saturday 9th Jan 2010.

I've not flown Virgin Upper for a couple of years. I noticed the lack of IFB cos I missed the polos and the razor before the doors shut :sad:

But I digress. About 10 mins after dinner orders were taken, CC crouched by the lady in the next seat to me and had a conversation along the lines of "Would you do me a huge favour....you've ordered the chicken, it's very popular tonight, would you be really kind and have something else instead?". "I don't eat fish". "You could have the sausage and mash". "I wanted chicken that's why I ordered it. I hate sausages". *puppy eyes from CC* "Ok what's it worth?".
"I'd be really grateful".....

Now, given people are paying 3-4 grand for a ticket, is it too much to expect that you could get the meal you asked for? I felt sorry for the lady but also for the CC guy having to go round the Upper Class cabin asking all the "chicken" people.

How does this sort of thing happen? And how often? I can understand if we were down route on a day flight out of Timbucktoo but night out of Heathrow when most of the UC cabin has their jammers and their "do not disturb" faces on before the doors have shut I was really surprised.

Educate me! :)

[apaddyinuk]

I dont understand why the crew member was trying to plead with the lady to switch meals...sounds horrendously unprofessional!!!! Now if this lady was an unpaid upgrade, a staff passenger or something to that effect then yes change her meal but dont do what that steward was doing! That sounds awful!

It happens all the time. In BA we can have up to 70 passengers and 5 meal choices. Usually a Beef of which there is probably about a 60% loading, a chicken of about 20%, something veg and something light of about 10% and 5% and then a couple of cold main course salads. The company along with all their other money scrimping have reduced the over flow loading so narrowly now that the chances of not getting what you want are much higher.

I personally (although we are told not to do it) when taking the meal order usually take the orders based on FFP rank starting with gold cards, then silver and so on ending with Upgrades and then staff! That way the most important passengers in the cabin are least likely to be put out!

But its all about diplomacy at the end of the day! At the end of the day you must remember that even the best restaurants can run out of a particular meal half way through the night as demand was perhaps misjudged!

[TheTiresome1]

apaddyinuk makes some fair points, I think. All airline margins are being trimmed to the bone, and trying to ensure total availability of all meals in all cabins is simply uneconomic.

I would take issue with your breaching the rules when taking orders and doing it by FFP rank, however. I would assume they were imposed by someone in your company who carries a certain level of management responsibility - it is surely not your choice to ignore those instructions on a personal preference? But then perhaps that's why uncommitted passengers are leaving BA for other airlines, when they discover that Club Class isn't what they expected [paid for with their own money, instead of having tickets bought by a company]?

[Abusing_the_sky]

That way the most important passengers in the cabin are least likely to be put out!

That is not a very nice thing to say. Just because someone couldn't (or wouldn't, for various reasons) pay for First Class and such, that doesn't make them less "important", does it?

Just curious.

[agent x]

That isnt what apaddyinuk was saying! In the First Cabin (example only...could be done in Business/Premium or Economy) if meal choices were limited then the first to be asked should be those highest on the FFP list then upgrades then staff! He wasnt saying anything about anyone not being able to afford First Class! :ugh:

[TheTiresome1]

Agree with Agent x - I'd guess when he's talking about 70 passengers he's serving meals in Club. And then defying his company's orders by using his own rules to see who gets what meal choice first.

[strake]

In the First Cabin (example only...could be done in Business/Premium or Economy) if meal choices were limited then the first to be asked should be those highest on the FFP list then upgrades then staff!
First return to Narita is currently £9600. If anything isn't available at those prices then maximum damage limitation is necessary.

[jetset lady]

Unfortunately, forgetting finances, waste, or anything else that comes into the equation, even if we wanted to, we just don't have the room to carry one of each option, for every person in each cabin.

Out of interest, would you, as passengers, prefer there to be less options in the premium cabins, maybe three choices rather than five, but more of each option? I sometimes wonder if we offer too many different things, thereby, almost shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Final 3 Greens]

For £9,600 I'd expect the whole kahuna, i.e. a very wide range with plenty available.

On the other hand, I've spent £2,100 on a J class MUC LHR RUH LHR RUH today and would be prepared to be a little more forgiving (but not much, it is still an expensive ticket.)

Sorry JSL, this one went to BD, I will not book any tickets with BA whilst there is any threat of industrial action from the loonies at Heathrow.

[boardingpass]

It's a shame you can't book your meal choice in advance, either when confirming the ticket, or a couple days before the flight.

[Final 3 Greens]

Boarding Pass

That makes a lot of sense.

With some airlines (e.g. EK) I often order a seafood meal in advance from the special meals requirement options and invariably enjoy it.

[One Outsider]

What is the point of questions like these? Other than disguising critisim

[parabellum]

Quite often the 'seasoned' traveller will order a special meal, not for any health or religious reason, simply because they usually come out first!:)

Then, when all others are still on desert, you can slope off to the toilets before the mad post meal rush begins. Most relevant when travelling Economy but useful in Business too.

[Final 3 Greens]

Quite often the 'seasoned' traveller will order a special meal, not for any health or religious reason, simply because they usually come out first!

This is true :ok:

[PAXboy]

parabellum. Ssshhhh. Do you have to talk so loudly? We don't want everyone to know. (You too F3G!)

[Rush2112]

It's a shame you can't book your meal choice in advance, either when confirming the ticket, or a couple days before the flight.

SQ Business and First Class have "Book The Cook" and you choose your meal, from a menu, in advance, so not just "seafood" but it could be "Slipper lobster Thermidor, buttered asparagus, and slow-roasted vine-ripened tomato, and saffron rice" for example.

As to the question on too many choices, I'm happy enough with choice of 3 when lucky enough to be in Business. 5 choices surely means you must run out of something every time unless you can be massively overstocked??

[Matt101]

What apaddy says is not really unusual - although I was never told not to do it, just never told to do it, perhaps that leaves the Cabin Crew with some flexibility and common sense.

Personally I would agree that trying to ensure there is still a choice for the High Gold card holder at the back is a good idea - I used to do it slightly differently though so as not to be too obvious, generally however high level Freq. Flyers tend to be seated towards the front of the Cabin (which is why service runs front to aft to). Staff Passenger wise - you get what's available after the paying pax have had what they want.

In first I never (thankfully) had a problem providing first choice though if all 14 decided to order the more obscure option we'd have been in trouble.

I completely agree and sympathise with passengers, that paying the price of a First ticket should ensure first choice but, unfortunately in reality, space, weight and cost prohibit carrying 14 of everything (and certainly 70 of everything in Club), It's not physically possible either! (If you ever get the chance to watch the first galley operator on a BA 777 you will quickly see that the space is tiny and the storage a bit like a game of tetris!)

[Golden Ticket]

F3G and others, you can book a special meal yourself with BA too, Seafood is available and about 19 others weather Vegetarian Gluten free etc. that's in all cabins on long haul.

[Final 3 Greens]

F3G and others, you can book a special meal yourself with BA too

To take up this offer, they firstly have to convince me that they are the best option to choose.

Currently, they are not.

[The Real Slim Shady]

JSL makes a very good point.

The "expectation" that your choice, and or a selection, of meals will be available together with a superior selections of wines etc would suggest that quality and not quantity should be the order of the day.

Makes much more sense to offer 3 meals with the certainty that all 3 will be available and a couple of reds, whites, rose and champagnes than 5 or 6 choices with limited numbers.

[Final 3 Greens]

Makes much more sense to offer 3 meals with the certainty that all 3 will be available and a couple of reds, whites, rose and champagnes than 5 or 6 choices with limited numbers.

With respect, I don't agree if you have paid £9.6K for an F class ticket.

On my £2K business class ticket, I would be happy with your suggestion.

Airlines that offer F need to really differentiate it from J.

[WHBM]

Whenever this gets discussed, increasingly nowadays due to reducing the meal numbers towards the actual numbers of pax, there are always those who say "ah well, we can't carry 50 sets of every choice, you know", as if this is somehow the ONLY option beyond carrying 20-20-10 and then saying "tough" to the people at the back of the cabin.

For what it's worth some years ago carriers used to be able to handle it well, knew what the averages were, knew how many overcaters to put on (not a huge number, but a few), and the issue rarely arose. It is quite possible. Excessive cost-cutting zeal has wiped this out. In times past they did NOT carry 50 of everything.

[wings folded]

Remember UTA, any of you?

I liked the airline, but flying back from an African country to Paris, I had elected lamb chops. They looked nice as they went past me down the aisle.

Chap turns up and dumps in front of me what, given the scales, fins etc. was clearly a fish.

Now, I have a violent allergical reaction to eating fish.

I say "That is not quite what I ordered"

He says "That's all I have left"

I say "If I eat this, can you have the skipper radio ahead for an ambulance revved up and ready to go, on the apron, because I am just a weeny bit allergic to fish."

The dead fish made a getaway which would be a credit to a live fish pursued by a predator.

It was replaced within seconds by a couple of nice chunks of lamb.

I thanked the kind fellow and ate my lamb (he was very friendly but courteous at the same time; know what I mean?)

The lamb was actually very good.

I suppose therefore that he was trying to foist off fish wherever he could, because it was not in huge demand, and because there was a massive demand for the lamb, and he could see that he was going to run out of lamb. Not his fault. Improvising as best he could, I think

Or he had brought his own emergency supplies of lamb with him, just in case.

Great bloke anyway, and great airline, sadly missed.

[jetset lady]

F3G,

I'm talking, mainly, about the Club Cabin. As far as I'm aware, it's rarely an issue in First due to the lower passenger numbers. They don't tend to let me up there very often. :{

WHBM,

That is exactly what we do do, although as already said, the company have reduced the number of overloads which has created more problems than in the past. However, I am still convinced that, in Club at least, we offer too many options. 20-20-10 is no problem. But add another two options into that, plus the special meals and storage starts to get a bit tight. Once again, I ask. Would you prefer less options in Club with more chance of getting your first choice, or all the options but the possibility that you will have to choose something else?

In my opinion, the airlines have always been their own worst enemy, especially in this area. After all, we bang on and on about the "Fine Dining Experience" whilst, seemingly forgetting that we are in the business of transportation. We are not a restaurant. We are not a cocktail bar. But by the time you arrive on board, we have built your expectations up way beyond what we are able to achieve!

Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.

Edited to add;

Wings Folded,

That lamb was probably a crew meal. Been there, done that! :ok:

Jsl

P.S. F3G, much as it pains me to say this, I don't blame you in the slightest. :(

[Final 3 Greens]

WHBM

You make a good point.

In over 200 C class flights with Air Malta, they have always managed to give me my preference, so presumably the art is still alive in the islands.

[Union Jack]

My favourite is when you are told that they are out of your preferred choice and then later you see the cabin crew happily tucking into what one of them told you you could not have!:suspect:

Jack

[wings folded]

JL

I bow to your inside knowledge.

A bit disturbing though.

If it was a crew meal, does that mean that because of my rather irritating allergy, two of the crew had to eat the same thing?

I thought that crew had to eat different meals, just in case of contamination.

Although my stay in the said African country had been one tournedos short of a gastronomic experience, I would prefer to be hungry than have two of the crew incapictated by food poisoning.

We might just get by with one CC u/s with food poisoning, but what if it were front left seat and front right seat?

How do you manage this?

My questions are sincere, since the same scenario is likely to crop up again sometime.

[jetset lady]

Wings Folded,

It's the flight crew, up the front, that must have different meals and that will always be adhered to, for the very reasons you have mentioned. I have to be honest and admit that I don't know if it is actually a requirement that cabin crew also have a selection of different meals. I should know that really, so will find out ASAP! However, we do always get a choice on long haul flights and there is usually someone on the crew willing to give up their choice of meal in the circumstances you describe. Either that, or you'd be amazed at how inventive we can be with combining different things. You wouldn't believe the number of passengers with serious dietary requirements that have, unknowingly, eaten a main from one cabin, served on a bed of starter from another, followed by a pudding from a third cabin. If it enables them to have something to eat, we'll do it! It is, however, all unofficial....;)

[WHBM]

In my opinion, the airlines have always been their own worst enemy, especially in this area. After all, we bang on and on about the "Fine Dining Experience" whilst, seemingly forgetting that we are in the business of transportation. We are not a restaurant. We are not a cocktail bar.
I now what you mean, but look at many carriers' advertising, they do not portray the engines, or the route map, or have much beyond a peripheral mention of their transportation side, but show an elegant FA (and we are all sure that JSL is one such :) ) serving an elegant meal, rather than the guys up front with their heads in the Jeppesen and the navigation computer. So that is what customers are being told they get for their money.

After all, the differentiator between paying £200 in Y and £2,000 in F is not the transportation, which is achieved in exactly the same way for both. So the £1,800 differential is for more seat, more space, and a "fine dining experience".

[jetset lady]

I agree, WHBM, which is why I added....


But by the time you arrive on board, we have built your expectations up way beyond what we are able to achieve!

Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.



However, following...

..but show an elegant FA (and we are all sure that JSL is one such http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif )

I'll agree with anything you say, anyway! :O

[wings folded]

Thanks JSL for you reply.

I have flown shedloads of times on a famous Dutch royal airline, sometimes in first when they had it, but mainly in business.

It's funny how they asssimilate luxury with fish: caviar, salmon and so forth.

I think that more than once them up front have had my caviar when I was happy to have their soup (generally excellent)

Wonder whether the caviar took a left turn after the cockpit door or a right turn......

[L'aviateur]

A few years back I was in business Cathay Pacific, and had an option of steak or a list of many asian meals, and unfortunately the steak wasn't available by the time they reached me, and I really didn't fancy an asian meal. So after she told me the steak wasn't available, I politely declined and said i'd be happy without a meal, then a few minutes later was suddenly presented with the steak.... :-) I found it unusual, but was happy nonetheless.
Often in business I decline the meal, as it just seems such a faf and takes so long and i'd rather sleep. Yet when i'm in economy, i'm quite happy to eat it as anything that makes the time pass quicker is welcomed...

[wings folded]

JSL

Don't want to be a bore and this is not aimed at you in particular, but just a plea to all airlines / restaurants / cafes:

Do not believe that you can scoop some fish / seafood off a bed of salad, for example, replace it with chunks of beef, and assume all will be fine.

The contamination is there.

Three days in hospital with an intravenous is not my idea of fun, and I suspect would not be other's either.

I know.

It has happened more than once.

[jetset lady]

WF,

You aren't being a bore at all. I'd say it's a totally valid point as many don't realise the seriousness of cross contamination, although the publicity surrounding nut allergies has certainly raised awareness. In the airline I work for, they do cover allergies and anaphylactic shock in a pretty big way, so hopefully, none of our crew would do this. Any caught doing such a thing would be slapped with the same piece of fish they were removing! After all, the last thing we want is a medical emergency at 35,000 ft.

Jsl

P.S. Is it wrong to feel ever so slightly pleased with myself for managing to spell anaphylactic correctly, first time? :cool:

[wings folded]

JSL

Congrats on anafillactique!!

If you will, just spread the word about people with allergies. You are so right that you do not want a medical emergency at FL350.

Neither does the PAX in question.

Nuts have raised awareness, but I believe that there still is no reservation code for a Pax with a fish allergy, whereas if you are nut allergic or pig allergic (Jewish, Islam or no doubt others) you can have a code.

Seems to me to be a small missing element.

[rmac]

I know I am always banging on about how great Air Berlin are for European travel :O

But take a look at their website, you can pre-order from a very good range of meals which are both tasty and low cost (like the airline). When you do this the CC bring the meal to your seat before they start the general cabin service.

If a lo-co can do this, in the age of modern internet technology, why can major airlines not at least let premium passengers select their meals online when they book or check-in. No dissapointments, in fact this would be a product differentiator and the money saved on loading extra choices (or not in this case) could be used to pay for the software required.

[TheTiresome1]

rmac, that's a nice thought, and potentially do-able. I would anticipate, however, that the airlines would charge a premium for that facility - they seem to do for everything else these days.

[strake]

Ahh, how this talk of food and wine brings back "the good old days"..of the nineties.
I quote from a menu for First Class AA, 1993:

"Welcome Aboard...

Your selection of award winning-wines has been personally chosen by Dr Richard Vine (true!)professor of enology and consultant for American Airlines...."

Pommery Cuvee 1985
Montrachet Clos de Vieux 1990
Chateau Lascombe 1990
Sandeman Character Sherry
Malvedos 1982 Vintage Port.
Johnnie Walker Black Label

Please also allow us to offer you a selection of cocktails.

And afterwards...
Courvoisier VSOP Champagne Cognac.

The Caviar Cart will be served no later than ten minutes after take off:

Sevruga Caviar from the Caspian Sea
Blinis
Absolut Vodka
All chilled on Ice.

Appetizer Cart
Smoked Salmon with Barbeque Chateaubriand Salad
Sorbet of Kiwi Lime

Entrees
Rack of Welsh Lamb
Steak Lousianna Filet Mignon
Grilled Oregano Chicken
Penne Pasta

Fruit & Cheese
Stilton, Provolone and Carrigbyrne with Sandemanns Vintage 50Yr old Port

Dessert
Ice Cream Sundae Cart
Hot Fudge, Butterscotch or Berry topping
Whipped Cream

Afternoon Meal

Seared Barbeque Chicken with Plum Ginger Sause
Lemon Linguine Chicken

Iced Tea

Baked-on-Board Cookies....."

And BA First to Miami August 1994:

"British Airways as a member of La Confrere de la Chaine de Rotisseurs - the world's oldest and most importantt gastrononomical society, founded in 1248 and granted a Royal Charter in 1610 - welcomes the priveilege of continuing long-standing traditions of comfort, elegance and hospitality for the most discerning of travellers.....

Glenfiddich Excellence single Malt
Johnnie Walker Black Label
Smirnof Silver

Martell XO Supreme
Fonseca Port

Marinated Salmon
Yorkshire Pudding with Foie Gras

Roast Welsh Lamb
Baked Snapper
Aberdeen Angus Filet Steak
Porcini Mushroom, Caviar and shaved truffles

Strawberries and Cream

Afternoon Tea

Courgette Flan

Scones with Strawberry Preserve and Clotted Cream

:{:{:{

[G-CPTN]

Rather than consider how popular the chicken might be, isn't it worth asking why so many didn't choose the alternatives? Maybe that was the problem rather than the appeal of the chicken?

Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees . . .

[Final 3 Greens]

rmac, that's a nice thought, and potentially do-able. I would anticipate, however, that the airlines would charge a premium for that facility

What part of 'premium passengers' proved challenging to you?

[silverelise]

Just wondering, since my OP was in relation to Virgin Upper, could they show me the menu and let me choose my options when I get in their car to the airport? That's usually 4 hours ahead of departure time - is that far enough ahead to sort out the catering allocations or are they already done by then?

[PAXboy]

That sounds like a very smart idea. Make the suggestion and, when implemented, make sure to claim a fat load of Flying Club Miles. :ok:

[RevMan2]

@ paxboy. Agree
The sadly lamented Lauda Air used the same principle, albeit during flight.

MIA-MUC, one chose one's breakfast on departure and it was there - perfectly prepared - within moments of awaking.

[Bob Upndown]

Simple top tip - when flying East in F or C/J, go SQ, CX, MH, et al. Avoid VS and definitely BA:yuk:.

VS are hurting big time right now and making huge cut backs across the board, including the catering loading into J. The days of a ''First Class product for a Business Class fare'' are sadly long gone (some say it started with the downgrading of the amenity kits (the Y kits are better now!) and moved onto the removal of the IFBT and so it goes on....).:(

[G-CPTN]

Do the wishes of cabin crew (as to what meal they want) over-ride that of passengers?
I'd imagined that CC got the choice of 'what was left' - except the flight deck crew perhaps.

It could get tedious if the remaining meals were always the vegetarian option (though maybe CC would prefer that to the steak? :E ), but they could at least make their displeasure known to the catering staff. Does the purser have any influence on the number of which type of meals are loaded? After all, the purser has to act as the restaurant manager (amongst other functions) and possibly has some ideas about what 'sells' - or do the caterers merely prepare whatever they have the ingredients for?

Do all flights get the same menu? I appreciate that flights heading for Asian destinations might need different choices to flights heading for Scandinavia.

WRT ordering your meal in the courtesy car, I'd imagine that that's way too late for the caterers to respond and would result in a knock-on in the supply chain if the actual meal load was dictated by passenger choice (yes, I know that the passenger is the customer, but think about the time needed for getting the prepared meal to the aircraft).

[Gulfstreamaviator]

The mantra seperate meals for the flight deck, is repeated many many times in training, and outwardly appears to be complied with.

However they come from the same kitchen, posible prepared by the same hands, stored in the same chiller cabinet, delivered in the same truck, I wont go on and on, you get the point.
Untill 100% separate supply chains are adopted, there is always a slight chance of cross contamination.
I almost forgot: Your chicken Kief looks better than my chicken a la whatever. Same chicken.?
As to CC meals, in general as you say, it is often or certainly was the case, that certain off "cuts" would be prefered rather than the supplied catering.

In conclusion, yours is the worst job in aviation, and I thank you for your smiles...(even at 03 very dark).

There is only one emergency worse than the double incapacitation at 35,000 ft and thats the one at 45,000 ft.

glf

[WHBM]

WRT ordering your meal in the courtesy car, I'd imagine that that's way too late for the caterers to respond and would result in a knock-on in the supply chain if the actual meal load was dictated by passenger choice
Not at all. The actual passenger load fluctuates until the last moment and the catering goes with that quite straightforwardly. Are those four F pax on the inbound connecting flight going to make it or not ? When are we going to know if any Y need to be upgraded to C ? Catering takes all this in its stride, some pre-ordering hours ahead is much more straightforward.

[jetset lady]

WHBM,

As you say, the final load figures fluctuate right up until departure but we're usually talking about a relatively low amount of passengers. 5, 10 or even 15 people arriving last minute can usually be accomodated, but I'm not so sure it would be possible for the entire Club cabin to be able to choose their meals, that close to departure. Once the catering rep has run out of uploads from his van, that is it and we have to make do with what we have. If anyone is in the know, I'd love to know the time frame, from taking the first meal out of the freezer, to loading the whole caboodle onto the aircraft.

Maybe a choice could be made at the time of booking, but then again, I could see that causing other problems. Cost would no doubt be an issue for the beancounters, but there is also the fact that people may change their minds. On Friday they may fancy chicken, but by the time they board on Monday, they could be leaning towards the lamb. As it is, a fair number of people that order a special meal, change their minds once on board, although to be fair, it's not always the passenger that has booked the choice. PA's, in particular, seem to be very keen on putting their bosses on diets!

Gulfstreamaviator,

I'm sorry. I'm probably being really thick here, but I'm not completely sure what you are asking. As far as cross contamination of flight crew meals goes, I suppose it's a case, as with everything in life, of minimising the risk as far as is practical. That and making damn sure I know how to operate the radio on every aircraft I fly, just in case! :uhoh:

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ BobUpndown ...

Interesting observation. Simple top tip - when flying East in F or C/J, go SQ, CX, MH, et al. Avoid VS and definitely BA. VS are hurting big time right now and making huge cut backs across the board, including the catering loading into J. The days of a ''First Class product for a Business Class fare'' are sadly long gone (some say it started with the downgrading of the amenity kits (the Y kits are better now!) and moved onto the removal of the IFBT and so it goes on....).

The last time I flew VS [to USA] was in 2004 ... it was "OK" in PE. I've been tempted occasionally to try VS Upper, especially with the current problems with BA. However, with the only options on my sector being BA and VS [and 2 US 3-star carriers] it's a bit of a conundrum. VS does cheap USA car hire, though, if you find the right buttons ... depending on which one you click, I could have paid either £520 or £900 for the same rental from the same company!!

[flying lid]

I allways fly Yorkshire Airlines, Allan Bennett class. Their pie and mushy peas is quite exquisite "Cuisine du Heckmondwike", and you don't get the smell of whippets and ferrets from the working class section.

YouTube - Yorkshire Airlines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLYpKGVBUg)

Lid

[Final 3 Greens]

The sadly lamented Lauda Air used the same principle, albeit during flight.

This is standard SOP in Swiss J class.

It works very well.

[Bob Upndown]

Two-Tone_Blue,

Ah! You do indeed have a conumdrum Sir! I think in your position, given the choice between BA, VS or one of ''those carriers'' out of the US, I'd see if there's any cruise ships doing the Soton - Miami run around the same time:}

Well, OK, I guess VS at a push! Def not BA (last and final trip in C, I had to check with Mrs Bob to see if I'd done something to upset the crew; with the aggressive attitude and surly demeanour from every one of them, I was sure I must have shot one of their family members:sad:)

Thread drift I know, but talking of ''those carriers'', has anyone seen the AA business class adverts featuring Kevin Spacey on TV lately - good god, that seat is about ten years out of date, what were they thinking???!!

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Ahhh, Bob ... I'm not going to Miami [EVER]. My destination is the undiscovered tourist world of Northern Virginia - as it has been for the last 10 years or more. They can't get cruise ships up the Potomac!

As I have BA miles to burn [in April if they let me fly] I shall re-evaluate the position before September. We had noticed VS going off the boil several years ago, so I'm REALLY not sure who to pick.
The one that's still operating will be a starter! :}