heaps of questions from absolute wannabe!

[cimore000]

Hey everyone.
Maybe you guys have heard of this site: The Truth About the Profession - Home (http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com)


It is really informative.
I sent him an email with heaps of questions but unfortunately, he is an american and does not know much about the flying, companies etc in Australia. I would really appreciate if you guys and gals could answer my questions!
Here is the original letter.
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Hey,
I read your very detailed truth about the pilot profession and would like to say, it was GREAT! It gave me a lot of information and a realistic view of a possible prospect for me.
I have many questions and I really appreciate that you are helping many pilot wannabes.

I live in Australia and a few cadet programs have been offered by reputable airlines (rex, swinburne qantas) within Australia. These cadet programs stated on the website that it costs about 80-90k Australian dollars. My question is, should I steer away from these cadet programs run by reputable airlines? are these cadet programs just schemes to rip student pilots off and rob them or does it vary similar to different flight schools.
I am wondering if I should go with the smaller flight schools at a local airport or apply for these cadet programs run by reputable airlines.

My next question is about employment. I understand that getting into a major commercial airline (my ultimate goal) is incredibly hard.
But, let's not even talk about major commercial airlines. Let's only talk about a reputable airline within Australia. Is it REALISTIC to find a job in a regional airline? Or is it hard and not even realistic for a pilot to be employed in a regional airline. I would not mind settling into a regional airline.

You also mentioned this under the 'final advice from me section':
4. Try to choose a flight school that provides a direct path to employment, preferably to reputable regional airlines.
Could you please give me more information about this? I am considering the cadet programs as a maybe but I need to do more research but, do the smaller flight schools provide a direct path to employment? I have heard of schools employing flight instructors but what other kind of jobs can you expect? I am looking into the schools at my local airport.

You also mentioned that the younger, the better for applying for the major commercial airlines. What is a realistic age for someone to start working for a major commercial airline as a pilot? I am worried that if I get a bachelors, it will cost me too much time and eventually become 'too old'.

Should I invest my time in a 3-4 year bachelor degree? You said that many job applicants for the major airlines have a bachelor degree, does this improve the chances of employment or is it more of a back up if the company is in trouble? I am finding it very hard to decide whether I should get a bachelors degree as I am more than happy to settle in with a regional airline but would go crazy for a commercial airline pilot job!

Thank you very very much for investing your own time to help wannabe pilots.

Regards, Simon
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Thanks for the answers!

[Wizofoz]

cimore,

Yes, that is an excellent site, but appears to be from th US which has significant differences to the industry in Australia.

There are no doubt others with more recent experience of the first career steps than me. It's 2 1/2 decades since I came through the ranks, but many of the same truths hold true.

I'll try and give you my insights, but certainly stand to be corrected by those with more up-to-date info.

Of the Cadet programs, the one that would defiantly make sense is Qantas. If you can get into and pass the QF cadetship, you will almost certainly end up as a Pilot for QF, and that is probably the last truly well paid flying job available in Australia. Swinburne does not, as far as I can see, offer any special path to employment. The REX Cadetship has troubled to begin with. I haven't heard how it's going now, but at best it is a path to an uncertain future as there appears to be no path from employment as an FO to gaining the command hours necessary to gain a command.

Employment by a Regional Airline is often just as hard as getting into a Major. It is very challenging flying, often with a relatively short time to command, and, as such, they try and get very experienced pilots when they can, often focusing on people who are either too old, or have previously missed out on, employment by the Majors.

First jobs flying in Aus are still often the piston single and light twin jobs in NT, FNQ and NW Australia.

As to number 4, this is where the US in different to Aus. With the exception of REX, there ARE no flying schools associated with regionals. MAC air had something like this, but they are now defunct. The fact is there is almost always a big enough supply of experienced guys from the bush to fill airline seats, so the only real incentive for airlines to run flying schools is if they think they can make money out of it!

Age discrimination is less of an issue these days. It seems the Majors in Australia abide by employment law, so I don't think you should worry too much on this aspect.

I still believe a degree is not of any particular value in Australia, and is time spent in which you could be missing out on one of the periodic "booms" in hiring (usually 3-5 years after a recession- so do the math!!).Neither QF nor VB require a degree of any type and I don't think it would enhance you chances more than the 1500hrs you could accumulate in that time.

At this point there is no point "Aiming" at a regional vs a Major, as it will depend on the demand in the industry at the time you have sufficient qualifications and experience.

Hope this helps, and best of luck with your future flying.

[apache]

just to add to this.....
F/O Regional = approx 50,000 p/a
Capt regional = approx 90-100,000pa.


F/O LCC (ie jetstar or tiger or virgin) = approx 100,000 pa
Capt Lcc (see above) = approx 170,000pa


these are VERY approximate figures. BUT just to inform you of what you are looking at for where you ultimately set your sights. There are NO guarantees that you WILL or WON'T make the position you desire.

RFDS is PROBABLY the cream of GA positions.... and they pay in the order of 85-95k pa including allowances.
Having said all that... I have enjoyed my life so far, which included many years and beers in GA. I have yet to amass my fortune as an airline pilot, but am enjoying the lifestyle so far.

I do NOT have a degree.

good luck, which ever way you choose to go.

[DC323]

I know all too well the situation you are in. Whether to choose the red pill or the blue pill! Well for that matter there are many different pathways to choose in aviation and what maybe right for some, is not right for others.
My personal opinion is that first you should research (not just the internet, but going down and talking too) various flight schools in your area. Gather as much information as you can, ask to be shown the aircraft, facilities, etc. Doing your homework here could avoid you wasting time and money at a place you are not happy with.
I would also research on how you are intending to finance flying. It can be expensive (certainly when it comes to ratings, etc.) This is a good idea as it can avoid any delays to your training if you get your finances in place before you start. I understand that this is very difficult.....especially in the present economic climate!
Then start training. Study hard and learn as much as you can. Believe it or not, this is where the 'basics' are taught and a lot of people view flying Cessnas, etc as just 'ticking the boxes' to get a licence to go to a jet job. This is not so. Some of the best things you will learn are at this stage and form the foundation of your flying level and skill on which to build on.
Next phase is finding a job. Most head to either charter work or flight instructing. Many will debate the advantages over the other. I am not about to enter into it, but I will say on a personal note - that flying 'bush' is some of the best flying you will do. I'd head up North and grab whatever you can. Doing a couple of hours in Cessna 210 before you go up couldn't hurt (if your flying school has one or can x-hire one). Many see this as a stepping stone. Try not to view things like that. Your aim should be to become a pilot. Be proud in that fact. If you take pride in your job and again study hard then the rest will follow. Do not fixate initially on becoming an airline pilot. Instead view the position as what you would ULTIMATELY like to become. Instead of looking for the quick way in, I would be looking at the best way to just start flying. Sure, some have been lucky and have gone from flight school straight into jets - and good on them! But don't count on it. Shortcuts are out there but are not the best way in. Don't learn the "tricks of the trade", instead, learn the trade.

University degrees are helpful and nice to look at. But I would get flying. At the end of the day, it is a numbers game and hours count. Plus, you can do your degree online now via correspondance. So, you could get a job and do that.

These are just my personal opinions (and I am in no way against cadetships or uni courses and have no prejudice against the pilots that graduate that way. It is simply a case of "if the shoe fits...." I have friends that are QF cadets and went to uni.) and are neither right nor wrong. But when all is said and done, nothing beats experience! And for the most part, flying in general is a great one! I am lucky to have made it into an airline position flying the 737 and I absolutely love what I do. But, I have many fond memories (and a sore liver! ;)) of the road it took to get here and I wouldn't trade them for quids! Print out a picture of the aircraft you would ultimately like to fly. Hang it above your desk and when those CPL/IREX/ATPL late night exam sessions are driving you around the bend, just glance up. PM by all means if I can help with any questions. Other than that, Happy Landings!

DC3

[Keg]

If you want to get into aviation then you need to be happy that the pinnacle for you may be bank runs and bush pilot work because many pilots never crack it into the majors. That doesn't mean that you don't set your sights on the majors, it just means that you need to acknowledge from the outset that not everyone gets in and that may be you.

Not sure how old you are but be doing everything you can to develop your non technical skills- communication, teamwork, leadership, decision making, situational awareness, etc. With two candidates who share the same stick and rudder skills (or even two candidates who simply exceed the minimum standard required), it is these non technical skills that will crack you a job in an airline and determine who is taken first. Any of these skills can be practised and finessed in settings well away from aviation so get involved in team sports, organising activities, debating and the Air Force or Army cadets (if you're at school), etc, etc.