Type Rating - Europe

[flygirl1985]

Hello everyone!

I need a bit of help. I want to make sure I am getting the right advice!!

I am moving to Europe this year due to personal reasons. I have a EU Passport and I will be converting my ICAO licence. I have over 500hrs turbine multi-crew etc. To convert I can : Do my JAR CPL, IR then MCC OR Do a type rating on a JAR23 aircraft.

I am more inclined to do the TR as I see more value in a TR then redoing a CPL/IR etc.

Now the question comes... which TR? I have been recommended by schools to do a A320 or B737... Buuuuut due to the GFC I am not sure this is worth it without some hours on type to back the TR... :confused: What do you guys think? I apprerciate how hard it will be to get employment so I always have the option of returning home (I will take this into account when choosing my TR). I was thinking the DHC-8 might be more value even if it was just to reduce cost of my conversion... Although I have yet to look closely at costs.

Any thoughts??

[wanabe2010]

schools recommends the A320 because it' s one of the most expensive rating=more money for them.

today,chance to get a job are near 0

[bestglide140]

Beside this, which is actually not better to express, neither a A320 nor a DHC8 are JAR23 Aircraft. I personally have no experience of converting a ICAO to a JAR Lic. but if the requirements are like mentioned in your post you`ll have to review it!
If so, maybe the C525 could lift you up, but either not reliable!

Cheers, BG140

[redsnail]

Howdy,

A couple of questions. Do you hold an Australian ATPL?
Forget JAR 23 aircraft. You want JAR 25 aircraft. (ie the ones you mentioned, such as the B737 etc)
What type do you have the 500 hours on? If it's a JAR 25 aircraft, then all you need to do is a LST in the sim. (It being observed by a CAA examiner)

If you go the way of a type rating, remember you'll need to have the LST observed by a CAA examiner. Believe me, organising that is a real pain.

Have you looked through "LASORS" on the CAA's website? it has all the requirements.
Also, the JAA site (JAA TO - Joint Aviation Authorities Training Organisation (http://www.jaa.nl)) has all the types etc. It's a bit of a pain to sift through but it's well worth it.
Note, JAA is morphing into EASA so make sure you confirm every thing with the CAA.

[potkettleblack]

A word of caution. There are loads of expats in this part of the world that have thousands of hours under their belts and no chance at a job so come over with a backup plan.

The European market has changed significantly over the past 5 or so years. Previously turbo prop time was seen as an advantage, as was instructing. Airlines such as Flybe would take on loads of expats onto the Dash and would value your hours and experience base. Easyjet would factor your hours depending on what type you had but if you had sufficient time then you could have found yourself in the RHS of a 737 or A320 having met their minimums. When BA were recruiting they would take on suitably qualified and experienced pilots so long as they passed their stringent entrance tests no matter what type.

Presently pay to fly schemes abound. Not only are type ratings being paid for but people are forking out 30k for 500 hours of line training as well on types such as the 737 and A320. Schools such as CTC are churning out cadets with 250 hours. These cadets have all passed a battery of psychometric, verbal reasoning and other tests before they even got onto the course and handed over 100k or so. Schools such as CTC have "partner" airlines that will take on these cadets eg: Easyjet, Monarch. As they are prescreened then they fit into the airline mould and tick all of the HR boxes. Overall this is seen by recruiters as a way of reducing the training risk to the airline. They then get a type rating when a job is on offer which will be done to company SOPs so that they hit the ground running when it comes to line training.

Only problem now though is that there are no jobs. The hold pools at CTC are filling up fast. The airlines are even changing the rules as well. Rather than offering firm jobs they are making them seasonal contracts on daily rates. There is no job security. People are coming out of the holding pool, doing 6 months work then going back into the pool.

Whilst your experience is no doubt valuable, in todays market the rules have changed. Why will an airline such as Easy employ someone like you who will demand a decent salary while there is someone that will work for free?

Smaller operators who do not subscribe to the above system are not recruiting. The pilots that are employed by them are staying put as there is nowhere else to go to. The traditional shift from instructor, RHS turbo prop, LHS turbo prop, RHS jet just isn't there anymore. Also the big players in the market such as BA have no plans to recruit for the foreseeable future. This previously had a positive effect on the overall market as it gets people moving up the ladder.

Other options such as the corporate jet market are even tougher to get into as there are so few jobs and lots of these are through word of mouth. Redsnails employer is if I am not mistaken one of the largest in the world and is undergoing significant change with no light at the end of the tunnel for a pick up in recruiting.

Good luck.

[redsnail]

pkb,
Yep, you're very right re NetJets. This year will be "flat" and slow but measured growth for the coming years. Unfortunately, we have a lot of crews on job share (and about 20? cadets) to be absorbed before hiring will take place.

Of course, many of those guys just might jump ship when the inevitable recruiting returns. Just when that'll be is any one's guess. However, it won't be this year for sure.

Your view on the European, esp UK industry is pretty much the same as mine.
:(

[flygirl1985]

Thanks for all your replys! Sorry I did mean JAR25! Opps!

Yeah I know I have a fight on my hands jobwise but my back up is returning home. I have always wanted to complete my JARs even if it means completing it then heading home for a job. This is personally a good time for me to conduct the training even if professionally it is not!

I have an Australian ATPL and 600 on a B1900... Which isnt a JAR25 but I have been advised that I can count that as it is required by our AOC to be multi-crew. I am awaiting confirmation of this from the CAA.

As the job market is soooo limited I am looking for the cheapest (but not lacking in quality) training/conversion etc...

Again thanks for all your replies!

[redsnail]

Ok, to keep the CAA happy they will want a letter from your company validating those hours. It has to be on company letter head paper and have your dates of employment plus hours attained.
Also, the letter must state that the aircraft was flown under multi pilot ops because of local regulations. I have forgotten the CAO it comes under. (If the B1900 is a single pilot aircraft, I don't think it is)

One thing you might want to check if the B1900 is acceptable to the CAA for the ATPL LST. If it is, then just contact Flight Safety at Farnborough, there's a B1900 sim there.

I am not sure if there are any Dash 8 sims in the UK. I could be wrong but I think you might need to look at Paris or Sweden?? Remember, you need to get the LST observed by the CAA (assuming you're using the UK as a starting point) and this will be very expensive to organise outside of the UK. (Business class airfares, hotels etc)

As for a cheap JAR 25, you used to be able to do it on a Shorts 360 but I wouldn't advise that now. I would contact FSI at Farnborough and see if they have any spare seats on a Hawker 800 or Falcon. Price might suit.
Failing that, A320 or B737 are your best bet to get the licence.

Now, bear in mind that you'll need to do base training (ie 4-6 circuits) to finish the job. £££.

Therefore, as much as I hate to say it, the boring old CPL/IR may be the most cost effective and cheapest way to go.

[flygirl1985]

redsnail...
Thank you! That has got to be the most straight forward and truthful reply (to countless emails and calls) I have got to date!!:ok:

I will look into all of those avenues. I might have to post (or search) soon for the best flight school if I do go the CPL/IR route. But Ill have quite a few months in the UK before I start training so hopefully that will give me time!!

[r44flyer]

fyi, Farnborough has Dash8-400 sim, but no longer a B1900, I believe.

[redsnail]

Many thanks for that. :)

FSI (http://www.flightsafety.com/fs_location_center.php?c=1452&r=G&_ce=0&_site_unique=16166256454b49ec9f55fec2.16360140) Farnborough.

[flygirl1985]

:ok:
Does anyone know anyone who has a 1900 sim or aircraft for training purposes?