Lost logbook

[vee1-rotate]

It seems the day has come where my logbook has had enough and walked out on me. Seems to have been misplaced in a recent cleanup at my parents place and I can't find it anywhere.

Anyone had a similar experience and know what to do in a situation like this? I have a copy of all my hours in an electronic logbook (excel spreadsheet) that I would update straight after my hard copy logbook after every flight.

Is it a simple case of copying the hours from the electronic logbook to a new hard copy? CASA website doesn't have any information. What would happen to the little stickers and signatures that were in the hardcopy?

Cheers

[Lasiorhinus]

You'll need to send in a Statutory Declaration advising them of the loss of the logbook.

The sticky labels should all match up to entries on your license as well, so you won't be disadvantaged by lost ratings, etc.

[goldypilot]

I had this convo yesterday and it had happened to plenty of people. However sometimes they seem to conveniently go missing. I hope you don't empty an entire pen if you try writing a new one up.:}

[snoop doggy dog]

Talk to CASA. Your total hours are given at each medical. :ok:

[Clearedtoreenter]

Lost mine fairly early on in the piece so only 'lost' a couple of hundred hours or so (actually, flight bag was stolen in a row of cars broken into outside one of the promient flight schools in that wondefully honest place southwest of Sydney.)

CASA were quite happy to 'give' me all of the min times taken to gain the various licences/ratings but not much else. They said I could fill in stat dec and place in front of the new log book but not sure what value that has. :*

I now put my digital camera on 'document' and keep a digital copy separately - very quick and easy way to back-up paper records.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Talk to CASA. Your total hours are given at each medical.

That's not exactly verification. (When did your DAME last check your logbook?)

Your last license/rating will most likely be the hours that can be recovered/verified by CASA. Anything after that you will have to chase up yourself (trip sheets etc.)

[3 Holer]

When did your DAME last check your logbook?



He doesn't have to.

You sign off on your Medical form that all contained in it is true and accurate information. :ok:

[muddergoose]

This may shed some light? (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90100)

Maybe you should print a copy of the web page and stick it at the front as an introduction should it be queried in the field.

[ab33t]

I think we all have been down this road once before , I tend to scan my logbook and keep a digital copy , just in case

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

You sign off on your Medical form that all contained in it is true and accurate information.

So this substantiates proof that the extra 400 hours someone might want to claim in the event they "lost" their logbook is correct? :hmm:(People who fudge hours should burn in hell.)

An ATO/FOI certifying these hours having actually seen a logbook would provide a much more believable proof in the eyes of CASA, wouldn't you agree?

[3 Holer]

........provide a much more believable proof in the eyes of CASA

It's not CASA you are trying convince, it's your prospective employer.

Your medical records, and the cumulative hours you have stated are correct on those records, are on file forever. It is impossible to "fudge" another 400 hours between the Jan 2003 medical and Jan 2004 medical in your new logbook because your total hours for the end of those years are already on file.

Seems logical to me.

[Howard Hughes]

If you are employed, then your employer probably has anything from the last page to the last six months of your log book from when you started, as well as your ratings/endorsements stickers. Get those copies, then use your flight and duty times to corroborate the flight time since.

Or just print out your electronic logbook and pay $25 for a copy of your licence to verify your licence/ratings.

[Hotpot]

It's totally legal these days to only have an electronic logbook although most people still have the paper logbooks. I believe CASA require you to be able to print a bound copy out if requested. In regard to the stickers and any logbook stamps they can be inserted on the print outs.

I'm currently in the process of entering all my hours into an electronic logbook,it's a lot of work when you have a lot of hours but in the end it will be really easy to keep a track of hours on types etc,really good for job applications and upgrades. If you keep a couple of backups in seperate places,you will never lose the data.

If I was starting out,I'd use a paper and electronic logbook.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Your medical records, and the cumulative hours you have stated are correct on those records, are on file forever. It is impossible to "fudge" another 400 hours between the Jan 2003 medical and Jan 2004 medical in your new logbook because your total hours for the end of those years are already on file.


So if I quote, say, 400 hrs TT at the 2009 medical, only actually fly 200 over the next eleven months, then decide to quote 1100 hrs TT at my 2010 medical, this is an impossible situation and there is no way this discrepancy could not be detected? Still logical?

It's not CASA you are trying convince, it's your prospective employer.

This is true. Many (hopefully all) forgers will come undone at the flight check stage, however CASA are the ones who conduct checks and will prosecute (as they should).

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/376633-log-book-forgery.html

So your argument is still that the pilot stating their own time at their medical is more believable than an ATO certifying your logbook at a licence/rating test? Really.....:rolleyes:

[3 Holer]

So if I quote, say, 400 hrs TT at the 2009 medical, only actually fly 200 over the next eleven months, then decide to quote 1100 hrs TT at my 2010 medical, ..................

Then you would be guilty of falsifying a legal document and if you have no problems doing that, I would respectfully suggest, you would also have no problems "fudging" 400 additional hours into your logbook.:=

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Stay on track.

My point was it is not impossible, as you stated, to rort the system in this way and that an ATO/FOI who has actually seen your logbook would be more believeable than your word in the eyes of CASA.

Save the back and forth.
My next post will have the CASA position on this issue for everyone.

[3 Holer]

This (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90100) is the CASA position on this issue for everyone.

There is no requirement under the current Civil Aviation Regulations (CAR 5.51/53) to "prove" the hours written in your log book are genuine.

However, there is a disclaimer:

"Falsification of a log book is a criminal offence;"

Have a good day MIHC. :ugh:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

WTF does the requirement to keep a logbook have to do with verifying lost hours?:confused:
Have you a ruling that actually relates to the topic?

Well we are actually both wrong.:}

As Clearedtoreenter has said, CASA will only credit the hours required to gain the ratings and endorsements you hold. Unless you can track those hours from the trip sheets/flying schools where those those hours were gained, you're pretty well up the creek. This is the position quoted by a CLARC manager.

As for the stickylabels, CASA transfers those to your licence, so You shouldn't need to recover those. (All the ATO's I know keep copies of the forms and their old sticky books as well.)

"Falsification of a log book is a criminal offence;"
Duh! :rolleyes:
I sorta have stated that opinion right from the start, so let's not try slander to win an argument, eh?

And a good day to you as well, sir!

[KopitePilot]

May seem a little over to the top, but I copy each completed page of my log book and have it certified as an insurance. Having a lawyer for a wife helps with this process though!

[3 Holer]

Well we are actually both wrong.:}



I don't think so :=

..................verifying lost hours?

He didn't lose his hours, he lost his logbook. :hmm:

Have you a ruling that actually relates to the topic?

No. The topic is "Lost logook". What "ruling" are you after? :confused:

Hooroo :ugh:

[3 Holer]

..................so let's not try slander to win an argument, eh?


"Falsification of a log book is a criminal offence;" is a statement of fact.

Slander would be if I accused you of falsifying your logbook. As I have not done this, I am interested to know what you meant by your statement "let's not try slander to win an argument, eh" :suspect:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

You don't think so?
Well how about you ask CASA how many hours will be credited?
They won't give you back to your last medical. Ask them. I did. They also won't validate back to your last rating application.
Again Clearedtoreenter is correct.

The difference between lost hours and a lost logbook?
It's the same context here.

When I pointed out a flaw with your "impossible" claim, you start insinuating,
if you have no problems doing that, I would respectfully suggest, you would also have no problems "fudging" 400 additional hours into your logbook
If you can't win an argument without this sort of behaviour, maybe you should join the Amatuer Pilot's Rumour Network, cause it definitely doesn't present a professional approach.

The topic is "Lost logook". What "ruling" are you after?
The ruling is about what happens if your logbook gets lost, which as far as I can see doesn't exist in the CAR's, not about a requirement to keep a logbook, which you quoted.

Had enuf this topic.

[Zoomy]

CASA can give you the min hours to last licence/renewal ect because they have verified records of that. They cannot verify anything beyond that because they don't fill in your logbook, you do. The only person who can verify beyond that is you, that is where the stat dec comes in. You can use the stat dec, however you must be able to in a court of law, explain the calculation of those hours.

In summary anyone can falsify the hours in the logbook anytime anywhere, you do not have to lose your logbook to do that. You can use a stat dec, thats the LAW, and there is not an aviation regulation to say you can't, you just need to be able to explain the hours.

[Deaf]

As private, mostly RAA flier, logbook hours are started from CASA certified copy of application for CPL way back and add logged hours from 00 (when I started flying after 18 year gap) onwards.

To cover a missing quarter of a century (especially on insurance forms) I put down logbook hours as per and estimated missing hours as separate and total them.

Then again I don't need x hours of whatever for a job.

[18-Wheeler]

Quick story about a mate of mine who this actually happened to - I'm not sure how many total hours he'd really clocked up when the department lost his logbook, (yes, they lost it) but he lost a full thousand hours as they wouldn't credit any more than that. I'd guess it would have been something like 30% - 40% of his total hours .... gone.
Point being, never ever lose your logbook(s).

[MyNameIsIs]

Take photos of all your logbook pages.
Burn to disc.
Place in safety deposit box/safe/another location (like parents house).

Especially if you have pages stamped by employer every few pages.

Takes very little effort actually.


18-Wheeler, every care in the world can be taken to not lose the logbook, but some things are sometimes out of our control (fire/water damage, theft etc).


However, simple precautions now can potentially save big hassles in the future!

[frigatebird]

Have diarys going back to the '60's with the details recorded. Current year carried in the nav. bag and written up at the end of a flight. Duty time, approaches and I.F., aircraft, etc. included. Log book done from it and summarized and reconciled at the end of each month. Standardized now a long time on Collins Sterling 133p A7 day-to-a-page, so could rewrite all 8 old log books if I had to. 3 and a half inch floppys came and went out of fashion, but the diary stayed.

[rmcdonal]

V1R

Print out your digital log book and write a stat. dec. to gist that the original book has been lost and that the digital print out is a true copy, then start a new log book bringing the totals from your digital log book across.
The big loss would be the sticky strips in the log book, however CASA would have the endorsement page (the one the stick strip comes from) on file and for fee I imagine they would be able to send you a copy.
If you can track down any photocopies of your original log book then include those with your print out as they can help confirm your hours to any perspective employer. CASA don’t really care if you loose your log as long as you can re-produce it (which you can).
Loosing a log book is not the end of the world, however for the rest of your career you will have to explain to any new employer that you lost you log book, the most important document that you own in regards to flying, not the best look. :ouch:

Happy flying :ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I keep it simple and just snap a photo of my logbook when I finish a page. That photo then gets copied to a logbook folder on my computer as well as another copy which just lives in the same folder as the family photos.

No need to have the copies certified.

FRQ CB

PS It's very wise to keep an electronic copy too (excel, dft etc)