Aust' charter aircraft spying on Sea Shepherd

[Iron Bar]

Fairfax press reporting a number of "charter" flights ex Albany, Melbourne and Hobart. Allegedly with the task of locating and reporting the position of the Sea Shepherd anti whaling contingent. It is also alleged the charter was organised by A NZ national, (who happens to represent the PR interests of the Japanese whaling fleet) under the guise of a NZ government SAR monitoring mission.

OK what's the story? Was someone hoodwinked by the sneaky Kiwi????

[Sunfish]

OK, confess. Which one of you did it?

[Sunstar320]

yet nobody seems to ever think about the poor whales.

[Dark Knight]

yet nobody seems to ever think about the poor whalesWhich the Japanese are hunting in accordance with IWC conferences. (strangely by a Democratic decision of that body): (and, I suggest the reason KRudd & Garrett will not go to an international court as they would lose)

Which, the IWC report are increasing in numbers overall.

DK

[Skystar320]

Krudd wouldnt even have the balls, nor he is likely to do anything. Looking at the christmas island situation :ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

When they start bombing them, let me know!:ok:

[Iron Bar]

Ve havt da vheys and means oft making you talk!!!:E

[PLovett]

Land rights for gay whales I say.:}

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

At least old Bob got Gareth Evans to use the F111's to spy on Tasmania during the Gordon below Franklin dam controversy.

One would have thought KRudd would have slipped on down in the RAAF VIP B737 to save the whales!

[Lodown]

Are the alleged flights illegal?

I'm waiting for the shoe-on-the-other-foot action where the aircraft drop parachuters onto the Sea Shepherd so that they can disrupt the so-called monitoring operation and perhaps chain themselves to the mast.

They're minke whales! The numbers increased furiously from the early 1900's when the larger whales were hunted to all corners of the seas, which left huge amounts of food for the minke whales that were considered too small to be worth hunting. Instead of a calf every second year, minkes started having two calves every three years to take advantage of the situation. There were krill everywhere and not much competition. The IWC object about the whale hunts, but aren't overly concerned, provided the Japanese stick with minkes. Quite rightly, there'd be hell to pay if they started on other species.

Not to my taste anyway. They're bitter (like dugong) and need opposing sweet, salty and sour foods to make a nice meal. And a nice warm glass of sake helps too. Turtle is much nicer, although very rich.

[Bolty McBolt]

Not to my taste anyway. They're bitter (like dugong) and need opposing sweet, salty and sour foods to make a nice meal. And a nice warm glass of sake helps too. Turtle is much nicer, although very rich.

For mine the old minke tastes half way between Platypus and Koala but more blubbery in texture You are not wrong about needing a glass or 2 of sake to get it down :E

[VH-XXX]

The last thread here on this ended up in jet blast!

[blackhand]

The last thread here on this ended up in jet blast! and then .........Disappeared:confused:

From the SMH
The Hobart flights were paid for by Wellington-based Omeka Communications, air industry sources told The Age.
Omeka is a public relations firm retained by Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research. The Hobart flights carried Omeka's principal, Glenn Inwood, who is an institute spokesman, and another man, the sources said.

[AYD]

Isn't Krudd what Whales eat, whoops its Krill ??

[VH-XXX]

How's this, just in, a great start, it's only just got there!


JAPANESE whalers have rammed one of the Sea Shepherd's protest vessels in the Southern Ocean, cutting it in half.
The Ady Gil was shadowing Japanese ship the Shonan Maru when it suddenly started its engines and hit the Sea Shepherd vessel.
Paul Watson, the captain of Sea Shepherd flagship the MV Steve Irwin, said the $2 million Ady Gil was paralysed and probably unsalvagable.
"It cut eight feet off the front of the vessel. There is a big gaping hole, so it can't go anywhere or it would fill up with water," he said.

[Andu]

Before we all get totally outraged, (and yes, I'm totally against the Japanese whaling too), I think it would be one of the safest bets in Chrisendom (if Chrisendom still exits) that the Sea Shepherd mob put their boat into the path of the Japanese vessel in an attempt to stop the whaling, quite possibly leaving the Japanese skipper and helmsman with nowhere to go but straight through the Sea Shepherd vessel.

Even if they're (in Americanese) "rootin' fer the good guys", they (Sea Shepherd) don't have a reputation for conservatism in the way they employ their sea vessels.

[TBM-Legend]

At least some money is being spent on the charters. Good deal for those companies. Keeps a few drivers airframe employed.

We eat cows/pigs/sheep/goats/roos/emus and the men and women from Nippon like seafood - what's the difference?:hmm:

[Howard Hughes]

But aren't pigs 'unclean'? Oh sorry wrong 'us'...:E

[VH-XXX]

I can't believe that they were using CHIEFTAIN's (and 404's) to fly down there from Hobart !

[Checkboard]

ABC news site has video of the ship collision.

ABC News - Top Stories - Breaking news from Australia and the world (http://www.abc.net.au/news/)

[startingout]

Who are they using, only real choice would be AOT or Tasair when it comes to 404's and Chieftains?

[The Green Goblin]

You'd have to be keen as mustard to take a piston twin that far south overwater!

[nick2007]

Whale is certainly not widely available in Japan. But one occasionally stumbles across it on the menu.... It's generally quite pricey.
I recently paid about AUD$20 for 8 small slices of whale "bacon"... mainly blubber, but it was delicious - it had a butter-like flavour.

[YPJT]

From ABC news

"One of Tasmania's two main air charter companies, Tasair, has declined to comment on whether its planes or staff were involved in the flights.

Tasair managing director George Ashwood says that kind of information is commercial in confidence."

I guess that's a yes then?

[Launchpad McQuack]

The Ady Gil is barely making knots in the video, until the last moment when you see the wake froth up. It certainly didn't appear that they placed themselves in front of the Japanese vessel, one would assume the sudden power increase came when they realized that collision was imminent.

At the start of the clip there is another vessel visible, it then appears the camera has been shot to the right perhaps to avoid making it obvious that the Japaneses vessel was turning to the right? Based on that video it looks like the Japanese were responsible for the collision, they certainly weren't forced into it.

[VH-XXX]

The papers are also reporting the aircraft to be from DIRECT AIR when the Tassie based pilots ran out of duty hours.

[40Deg STH]

Direct Air advertise many jets. Do they have them or their just another "Want to be company" advertising aircraft they could perhaps charter from other operators?

[dudduddud]

Land Rights For Gay Whales!

Land Rights For Gay Whales!

Land Rights For Gay Whales!

[krankin]

Hahahahahahahahahaha.......:}

And i agree with the previous! Very keen to go that far south in pistons!!

:eek:

[assasin8]

Folks, folks, come on...

The Japs aren't "eating" them, they're just chewing, swallowing, digesting and excreting the whale meat for scientific purposes!

Let's get the facts straight!:hmm:

[Flying Binghi]

Have a close look at the video in the Checkboard (#20) supplied link ABC News - Top Stories - Breaking news from Australia and the world (http://www.abc.net.au/news/) at the end you can clearly see the wake of the Japanese ship shows a left turn away from the sea shepherd muppets....:hmm:

[TBM-Legend]

from the video the clowns in the 'sea monster' moved into the path of the Maru something!

Hardly avoidable...

[Ultralights]

I do believe the Australian Antarctic Division are launching an aerial survey this summer in a bid to find Minke whales as their numbers have declined sharply in the last 2 yrs.

[Flying Binghi]

Before leaving, Ady Gil Captain Pete Behune said he was planning to take the fight right to the harpoon vessels.
"We will be on the fleet the whole time. Once we engage them, every day we'll be looking to mess them over,"

LOL, he "messed them over" alright... his own boat that is....:hmm:

I wonder what the donor of the Ady Gil thinks of his boat being deliberately set up for destruction....

Anti-whaling protest boat Ady Gil holed after colliding with Japanese whalers in Southern Ocean | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/anti-whaling-sea-shepherd-boat-ady-gil/story-e6frf7jo-1225816658175)

[PLovett]

I might have missed it but who said the charters were being done in C404 or PA31 aircraft?

Tasair has a C441 and Directair also has such an aircraft.

Might be an interesting upshot to the collision as the same rules apply on sea as in the air - give way to the right.

[Flying Binghi]

Heres the sea shepherd take -

The Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin left Hobart, Tasmania at 1800 Hours on December 31st, 2009 to return to the search in the Southern Ocean for the illegal operations of the Japanese whaling fleet.
The Steve Irwin had lost the tail of the Shonan Maru No. 2 when the Sea Shepherd crew returned to Tasmania. The Japanese were anxious to put that tail back on the anti-whaling ship knowing that a continued tracking of the Steve Irwin would keep the conservationists away from the whaling fleet.
The Japanese were desperate to not lose track of the Steve Irwin, so desperate that they appear to have fraudulently poised as New Zealand government agents in their efforts to find the Steve Irwin at sea.
On January 1st, 2010 two men, Glen Inwood and Chris Johnston from Omeka Communications located in Wellington, New Zealand chartered a Chieftain aircraft out of Melbourne. They identified themselves as acting on behalf of the government of New Zealand to track down and locate a New Zealand catamaran and the Steve Irwin on the pretext that if they (the Sea Shepherd ships) were to get in trouble it would cost the New Zealand government a great deal of money to rescue. They wanted the ships located and an estimate given of their track and speed.
The Chieftain aircraft undertook two four-hour searches. The searches failed to find the Steve Irwin. The Ady Gil, the Sea Shepherd catamaran, was fourteen hundred miles south so finding it was out of the question. It was the Steve Irwin they were looking for.
The two searches failed to find the Steve Irwin so Inwood and Johnston chartered a second Chieftain for another four hour flight. It also failed to spot the Steve Irwin.
Sitting at the 200-mile limit, the Japanese harpoon vessel Yushin Maru waited for word from the spotter planes to resume the tail on the Steve Irwin. It had been spotted and identified by a boat out of Hobart with a six-person crew identifying themselves as the Taz Patrol.
Meanwhile, the Steve Irwin had latched onto a passing storm and rode the winds and heavy rains across the Economic Exclusion Zone into international waters undetected.
The 12 hours of flight with the Chieftains at $1,610 an hour cost Glen Inwood $18,320. He put it on his personal credit card.
Was Glen Inwood a representative of the New Zealand government as he said?
No, Mr. Inwood owns Omeka Communications, the New Zealand public relations firm that represents the Japanese whaling industry.
It will be interesting to see if the New Zealand government has a problem with a Japanese hired public relations firm representing themselves as New Zealand government agents.
The end result was that the search was unsuccessful, the Steve Irwin is running south without a Japanese tail, the Yushin Maru is not whaling, and the whaling industry is out another $18 thousand dollars.

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100105-2.html

[fixa24]

Who cares. Seriously. :suspect:

[Super Cecil]

Most do care

[pause]

We eat cows/pigs/sheep/goats/roos/emus and the men and women from Nippon like seafood - what's the difference?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Good point. How many of us responding are sitting with battery-caged-eggs for breaky or driven-across-the-country-in-trucks lamb/beef for dinner or farmed-in-envoronmentally-destructive-farms-off-Thailand/China Prawns at a BBQ?

Whilst I don't condone whaling, there are plenty of food industries that are inhumane.

The media attention is similar difference between road and air crashes. Some stories the public respond to, some they don't.

For the record, I am not a Vegie.

[Capt Fathom]

You may find this video will clear up which direction the boat veered!

Video from the SMH (http://media.smh.com.au/national/national-news/vision-from-mv-bob-barker-1019679.html?sy=smh&source=smh.com.au%2Fenvironment%2Fwhale-watch%2Fwhaling-war-set-to-worsen-after-crash-20100106-luej.html%3Fautostart%3D1)

[Aerozepplin]

Personally it’s the obvious lying that angers me. The claims that its "scientific research", and the manipulation of the IWC is rather unpleasant. Likewise the claims that it is culturally significant are incorrect from what I understand, with there only being a history of extremely small scale coastal whaling. From what I've read a lot of the motivation for Japan to continue whaling is a resistance to the perceived racism of the anti-whaling movement, which of course may be true.

I would hope that no one would condone the hunting of non-Minke whales, ie. Right, Blue, Humpback, etc, and the opposition of hunting these endangered species is probably the catalyst for the more general anti-whaling public sentiment.

On an aviation note though... 404's and PA31s over the South Pacific! That'd be exciting. One of those flights where you look at the engine instruments are little more frequently than usual. Is that Brisbane Oceanic down there?

[VH-XXX]

So the boat got hit and it looks like the Japs tried to avoid it, that's a good thing.


Back to the flying part though...... so what are the thoughts on a Chieftain (or similar) being so far out over water, I assume that is 100% legal, where else do such long over water flights take place in twins of this sort and what type of gear would you have on board? Sea Shepard were saying that you only have a few minutes to survive in the water once you're in it.

[AerocatS2A]

You may find this video will clear up which direction the boat veered!

Woah. Veered twice in an obvious attempt to ram the boat.

Perhaps they need to send a Dash 8 down to keep an eye on things.

[D-J]

I wonder if they'll try sending the japs a bill for that one...

[Aerozepplin]

Would the crew have full immersion suits on?
I also assume CASA requires the same as NZ CAA in regards to twin engine flight over 200NM from land, life raft, survival kit, ELT on the raft, etc

[Flying Binghi]

You may find this video will clear up which direction the boat veered!


Yes it does Capt Fathom.

Considering the first part shows video taken from the M.V. Bob Barker which is moving right to left across the bow of Shonan Maru 2 the impression is given of SM2 turning right.
The video shot from the SM2 clearly shows the Ady Gil accelerating just before the impact. I note that the ultra reliable muppet watson claims the Adi Gil were reversing prior to impact...:hmm:

[Flying Binghi]

Who cares. Seriously

Yer gotta wonder fixa24.

Sea shepherd claims "...we'll be looking to mess them over..." The Japanese take the prudent course of hiring aircraft to spot these sea shepherd terrorists so that they can avoid them and that is news...:suspect:

[Hotpot]

So Tasair are involved are they ? What's going to happen when one of their clapped out Navahos ditches 200 miles south of Hobart,who's going to pay for the search ? We tax payers shouldn't have to fork out for it.

It would be a suicide mission,I hope the pilots have their life insurance paid up and George is paying them danger money.

[Fred Gassit]

Why all the anxiety about over water flights? I would rather ditch than go down in the South West wilderness area any day.

[VH-XXX]

So Fred, do you prefer negative water temperatures with a limited chance of survival outside of a raft somewhere less than 10 minutes with your Epirb sunken somewhere on the ocean floor 2km below because you couldn't get the raft out in time with a potential wait of a day or two for a boat rescue, or would you prefer a forced landing in a hot desert in the shade with an ELT beside you, sitting in the shade sipping water from your first aid kit as you await rescue?

[pause]

a forced landing in a hot desert in the shade with an ELT beside you, sitting in the shade

Unless we are talking about a different Tasmanian South-West Wilderness, I don't recall there being any deserts there.

[Aerozepplin]

That's some seriously cold water down there though. There was an accident near NZ's Stewart Island some years ago (C402) and I remember seeing the chart for water temperature vs. survival time. They were only a degree or two away from having litterally minutes before they were helpless. I'd imagine that a bit further south would be a very lonely place to be floating.

[Flying Binghi]

What are the fish spotters flying down that way ?

[Lodown]

I apologize for veering from the aviation discussion. For those claiming the Japanese obviously diverted to hit the idiots in the Ady Gil: what happened prior to the commencement of the video edited by the anti-whalers?

Here's another version: Ady Gil tried to run across the bow of the whalers to scare the captain into changing course. Whaling ship Cpt can't see the Ady Gil after it disappears below the bow and turns starboard to avoid them by going behind where he thinks the Ady Gil will be. Ady Gil IOC (Idiot in Charge) decides he/she has done a nice job at scaring the whaling ship captain and cuts power (edited video starts about now). Crewman on the bow of the whaling boat radios to skipper that Ady Gil is stopped and make full rudder turn to port. Whaling ship doesn't maneuvre like a small boat.

The nuts on the Sea Shepherd won't be happy until one or more of them is "martyred". Revoke their Australian citizenship for piracy and see where they go from there.

[VH-XXX]

Unless we are talking about a different Tasmanian South-West Wilderness, I don't recall there being any deserts there.


Better the jungle than the freezing Arctic.

[Hempy]

We eat cows/pigs/sheep/goats/roos/emus and the men and women from Nippon like seafood - what's the difference?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

umm cows/pigs/sheep/goats/roos/emus are farmed for human consumption, unless of course you are one of those big macho hunter types who goes off into the wilderness to stalk and hunt your own wild sheep.....

This whole thing is typically Japanese tbh. I don't trust those little fkrs one bit (nor does my ex 2/19 Battalion father...)

[mikkk]

One thing to note in the Sea Shepherd video is the rear mast of the Shonan Maru. In the first few seconds it is visible to the left of the ships bridge then as the ship veers towards the Ady Gil it appears to the right of the bridge then as it hits the mast swings back to the left of the wheelhouse on the SM. Absolute proof in my book that the Japanese deliberately ran the Sea Shepherd boat down. They did not steer a straight course and most definitely turned towards a stationary Ady Gil.

As to people comparing eating whales with eating chicken or beef, when we kill cattle or chicken (slowly) with explosive tipped spears then maybe your comparison will make sense.

Do these chartered flights really have any hope of finding their target? The southern ocean is a biiiig place and sea shepherds boats could be anywhere.

[Fred Gassit]

I wouldn't choose either scenario, I guess my point was more about when did flying in piston twins become an unacceptable risk?

These things fly RPT/Chtr all over the place including over areas you probably wouldn't survive a forced landing.(eg the south west wilderness)

I think the risk is more psychological than actual.

[VH-XXX]

I look at it like this.

To fly over Tasmania in a Chieftain, how long does that take, perhaps 50 minutes from one end to the other of which say 30+% is survivable terrain with a rescue chopper civillian or otherwise is within an hours flight from you?

Now compare that to flying around the Antartic where you're flying for 4+ hours where potentially 95% may not be survivable (as soon as you leave the Tassie coast, with no nearby rescue choppers, freezing temps, risky business with your raft, immersion suits and the odds against you.

It's serious flying and has it's risks. Being summer might reduce the risk with weather etc due icing so that's one bonus.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I thought the Oceanic Viking was supposed to be there keeping an eye on things. Like how Garrett and Rudd said they would pre election...oh, hang on...its in Freo at the mo, maybe finally on its way after a slight delay.

At least the Sea Shepherd people are doing something. Garrett used to sing "do you want to be a doer or a talker" he also sang "I open my mouth and some idiot speaks" ..so sick of the hypocrisy. You can apply a Midnight Oil lyric to prove his hypocrisy in just about anything he says these days.

[Barry Bernoulli]

15 seconds into the video footage on the SMH site (taken from the whaling ship) you can clearly see a line being trailed behind the Ady Gil.

It would be consistent with past tactics if the Adi Gil was trying to drag a line across the bow of the Shonan Maru 2 in an attempt to foul the propellor or rudder.

The Ady Gil training a fouling line would also explain why the Japanese ship made no attempt to pass behind the Ady Gil.

In the collision footage taken from the Shonan Maru 2 you can see, just after the collision, the line being trailed from the Starboard sponson.

Further investigation of the YouTube footage, shows a previous bow crossing performed by the Ady Gil, further suggesting that they were trying to employ a fouling line (see link below).

YouTube - Ady Gil Just Prior to being Rammed by Japanese Whalers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmpGm5Z1ik)

The trailing line can most clearly be seen in this footage at the 35 second mark.

Just after they cross the bow they decelarate, which would be consistent with trying to let the line pass under the keel.

The following footage confirms that they are towing a line.

YouTube - Sea Shepherd amazing effort 2009. Ady Gil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj6D75kq3_o&feature=related)

And here is something that the pilot fraternity can relate to, the Ady Gil uses lasers as well.

YouTube - Ady Gil Arrives in Antarctica 23.12.09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR96rKo6M7k&feature=related)

Note the narrative:

The Ady Gil utilise a photonic disrupter (laser), prop fouling stern line and a projectile firing launcher in these clips.

I wondered what use they had for a high speed vessel in the Southern Ocean.

My opinion is that the Ady Gil was making an attempt (second or subsequent) to tow a fouling line across the path of the Shonan Maru 2. Just prior to the collision they were making about 4 to 6 knots headway. They are seen to accelerate just prior to the collision, possibly in an attempt to cross the bow. The Shonan Maru 2 bears away to Port, leading to the collision.


No innocent parties there!

[flywatcher]

Sea Shepherd and Ady Gil, the new style terrorists.

They should be locked up for what they are doing down there, it is against every law of the sea.

To tow a hawser across the path of another to try to disable it is a criminal act and should be treated with the full force of international law.

The interesting thing in the previous videos, apart from the anti boarding nets on the Jap whaler, is what would happen to the Ady Gil if the hawser did go into the screw of the whaler. From where it is fastened on the superstructure, it would either turn the Ady Gil over or it would be pulled apart.

Those people are as fanatical as a man boarding an aircraft with semtex in his undies.

[Bing Gordon]

Wow, what a lovely collection of bitter old men. Terrorists? Hmmmm :D

[Flying Binghi]

The Japanese fishermen are going about their valid work of farming the sea for sustainable food. Sustainable food that can be increased to feed many more..... on the other hand we have sea shepherd (that's the dip-wits that want to reduce the worlds population to less then a million) who just wants to have fun in all them expensive boats and not produce anything that actually feeds or cloths one single person...:hmm:

Via the Barack Obama book, Dreams From My Father. Obama is in Kenya and wants to go on a safari. His Kenyan sister Auma chides him for behaving like a neo-colonialist. "Why should all that land be set aside for tourists when it could be used for farming? These wazungu care more about one dead elephant than they do for a hundred black children." Although he ends up going on safari, Obama has no answer to her question.











.

[Under Dog]

Garrett can sing but thats where it ends.....

The Dog:)

[nick2007]

umm cows/pigs/sheep/goats/roos/emus are farmed for human consumption, unless of course you are one of those big macho hunter types who goes off into the wilderness to stalk and hunt your own wild sheep.....

This whole thing is typically Japanese tbh. I don't trust those little fkrs one bit (nor does my ex 2/19 Battalion father...)

Wow... :ooh: The son of a hero - a true diplomat and gentleman no less.
Remember - if you're going to tar everyone in Japan with the same brush, don't complain when other countries do the same to Australia.

Fair argument about farming cows/pigs/sheep etc. But a lot of the fish consumed in Australia are caught in the wild from managed fisheries. At least animals caught in the wild have a bit of a chance.

I think of all the arguments against whaling, the only one that has any weight is the method by which the whales are killed.

[VH-XXX]

Flying Bungii, Whaling is NOT sustainable! That is what this is all about!!

[nick2007]

VH-XXX - isn't it? This isn't a wind up. Is 1000 minke whales a year not sustainable? In my mind it would make sense that there is level of whaling which would not have a significant impact on the population - thus that would be the "sustainable" level.

[Flying Binghi]

Whaling is NOT sustainable! That is what this is all about!!

Not sustainable... best show us your evidence eh...:hmm:

[Barry Bernoulli]

Estimated population of the S. Minke is somewhere around 500 000 - 600 000. If I had that many cattle I'd be sending a few to the saleyards each year.

Aside from any opinion of the merits or otherwise of sustainable whaling, I think that what is going on is deplorable. As a pilot who also has some expereince of, and therefore a healthy respect for, the ocean, I am certain that the maritime environment, like the aviation environment, is potentially treacherous and unforgiving and there is no place in it for renegades, cowboys or others who treat it with less that the respect it deserves.

[Aerozepplin]

If you had a farm covering a greater area than all the land on earth with that many cattle then you'd be seriously thinking about a new career. Not to say of course that whales should be packed into feed lots... but the ocean is a very large place.

I believe Cod numbers in the North Atlantic have achieved very little growth since they stopped being fished, most likely because of the likelihood of enough of the survivors meeting is quite low.

Respect for the ocean extends to what lives in it too. With the trawling example, which is an incredibly inefficient use of a fragile resource

[Capt Fathom]

OK... back to the topic!

The Japanese are hunting whales for 'research'.

A group of privateers are trying to stop them!

Australian aviation companies are hiring out their services to ... help themselves!

Pretty poor show really!

:ouch:

[blackhand]

Capt Fathom sed

Pretty poor show really!

If you are referring to the Cheiftan flights, not sure that I would have declined the job, sounds like it paid well

BH

[The Wawa Zone]

mmmm Big ego trip, I think; roaring around in a pointy black painted hoon-boat with a skull and trident symbol on the side, yapping on the media all the time waving the high moral ground. Must be real boring when the Japs finally go home and you have to stop and become just another scruffy greenie.

Interesting to consider if the same mindset would lead to their helo interfering with passing VH-registerered aircraft trying to get close to their vessels ?

These things are just whales, not important stuff like sheep, guide dogs, etc..

Save the Rat...

[Flying Binghi]

Hmmm, the FBI got some worrys -

Together, eco-terrorists and animal rights extremists are one of the most serious domestic terrorism threats in the U.S. today…for several good reasons:

The sheer volume of their crimes (over 2,000 since 1979);
The huge economic impact (losses of more than $110 million since 1979);
The wide range of victims (from international corporations to lumber companies to animal testing facilities to genetic research firms); and
Their increasingly violent rhetoric and tactics (one recent communiqué sent to a California product testing company said: “You might be able to protect your buildings, but can you protect the homes of every employee?”). FBI — Eco-Terrorism - Press Room - Headline Archives 06-30-08 (http://www.fbi.gov/page2/june08/ecoterror_063008.html)










.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Without entering into the rights and wrongs of whaling generally, the real "cultural history" of Japanese large scale whaling is seldom talked about in these days of political correctness.

Firstly, before WW11, whale meat was not part of (and largely isn't now) the Japanese diet. Large scale whaling was established by the Allied occupation forces, as a source of food, when General Douglas MacArthur was the military governor of Japan --- nothing "cultural" or "historic" about it.

Secondly, for virtually the whole period since WW11, the civilian Government of Japan has been dominated by the Liberal Party, in reality a conservative party. As we have seen, in the past in Australia, (Queensland and Joe, for one) a thorough gerrymander can give a lot of power to small groups, whose desertion can bring a government down. Amazingly high subsidies for local rice and beef, and very strict agricultural import quotas are part of the picture, as Australian farmers well know.

That is what you have had in Japan for may years, a far right wing, fascist if you like, faction of the Liberal party, who have never accepted that Japan lost WW11. Loss of support of this far right faction would have brought the government down.

As opposition to the whaling gathered momentum in recent years, particularly in "Allied" countries, the one way that this political rump has been able to "maintain the rage", is by demanding and achieving the Government as a whole support continued whaling, and face down demands for a cessation of large scale whaling.

In short, continuation of Japanese whaling has got nothing to do with "farming the ocean", or more normal fishing, and everything to do with continuing a two finger salute to the Allied powers, who defeated Japan in WW11, and occupied it for many years afterwards.

Any of you, who have spent any time in Tokyo, will have seen the campaign buses of this party, with their loud speaker trucks, shouting the odds. If you understand the posters, or understand the loudspeakers, most of you would find it unflattering, and unpalatable. Unsurprisingly, the US and Australia are right at the pinnacle of the fascist hate list. Leaves the average militant Islamic fanatic's description of infidels for dead, as far as graphic language and images go.

Remember, there is little to nothing in Japanese school textbooks about a "military incident" that we call WW11, or the Manchurian invasion of the '30s. To this day, the majority Japanese population (I choose my words carefully) is probably one of the most xenophobic there is, both part of the reason for their success, and now their failure, as an economy.

Don't get me wrong, I have greatly enjoyed all the time I have spent in Japan, and still do, but we shouldn't be blinded to some important facts, in our thoughts for and against Japanese "industrial" whaling.

Tootle pip!!

[blackhand]

Firstly, before WW11, whale meat was not part of (and largely isn't now) the Japanese diet. Large scale whaling was established by the Allied occupation forces, as a source of food, when General Douglas MacArthur was the military governor of Japan --- nothing "cultural" or "historic" about it.

Leadsled:

I have found references to ancient and more modern evidence of whaling and dolphin hunting in the Jomon period but no reference to increase of whaling by post war Japan

Cheers

BH

[Aerozepplin]

From what I understand it was extremely small scale coastal whaling. Something tells me it didn't involve a fleet of diesel powered ships in the South Pacific.

[FOCX]

Blackhand, I think you'll find that Leadsled is basically correct. The Japs did do some very limited coastal whaling in days gone past (as another poster has pointed out), but it became very much commercial after WW2.

What I object to most strongly is their whaling (sorry, carrying out scientific research) in the southern hemisphere, raping and pillaging. Why not do that in their own waters? Oh, they've done that already, haven't they!

Let them go and they'll abuse any quota you give them, just as they did with their southern bluefin quotas in very recent years. They have fished out any area they can. They buy out the rights of Pacific countries then fish them dry, they have no sense of proportion.

As to whether or not it's sustainable, do we have to take anything and everything just because we can. It's not as if there is a shortage of protein in Japan.

With regards to the difference of slaughtering farm animals and whales; one group have been breed for that for a few thousand years. Also consider the method and time to death.

I don't know how some of you come to your conclusion, but to me both the SMH and the Jap vids show to me the ramming was deliberate.

All I can say is, go Sea Shepherd!

[Howard Hughes]

Have you ever been out on a decent sized harbour for example Sydney Harbour? Regardless of any laws of sea, you will see hundreds of boats (powered and sail) giving way to larger less manouverable ships. The Ady Gil, one of the fastest ocean going boats on the planet, could have gotten out of the way of the Shonan Maru (sp?), but chose not to! They were deliberately causing a nuisance and I wouldn't be surprised if they were not quietly elated that the incident occured.:ooh:

Anyone who thinks they can work out what the larger vessel was doing from the videos, has not been on a ship in heavy seas while it is heaving to and fro!:rolleyes:

[PA39]

:mad: Some guys sell their a**e for money, some guys sell their soul.

[frigatebird]

I'm with Aerozep in post 41. How can they (the Japanese, a smart people in so many ways) justify the COST of the whaling fleet so far from their islands for so little protein,- unless there is another agenda. It beggars (my version of) commonsense. Let the whales that choose to live there alone. Other than oceangoing adventuring humans who can identify with the local wildlife,and the environment, for the good of all species, leave the creatures to their icy home. They take plenty of this countrys iron ore and coal, ..now then, increased beef imports would be more cost effective in these hard times....

[Hempy]

If you are referring to the Cheiftan flights, not sure that I would have declined the job, sounds like it paid well

Yep, anything goes for a $ right?

LeadSled: precisely my point

[Arnold E]

I would like to know how many KNOWN unserviceablities were on those "AIRCRAFT " flying down there, that far from land?

PS And how many people were dumb enough to fly them?

[blackhand]

Hempy asked
Yep, anything goes for a $ right?

I said not sure, but with salaries, parts, fuel and maintenance to pay sometimes cold hard reality wins out.:(

[LeadSled]

HH,
---- heaving to and fro
I know what "heaving to" is, but I am not entirely clear what "---heaving fro" is!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Tootle pip!!

[Flying Binghi]

before WW11, whale meat was not part of (and largely isn't now) the Japanese diet

LeadSled, personaly i dont care much about the historical precident here, though 5 seconds searching brings up thousands of references. Heres one -

"...historical evidence can be found among the objects excavated from shell mounds. Shell mounds have been found all over Japan and provide much information about ancient people's diets. They contain bones of deer, wild boars, whales, dolphins, sea lions, fur seals and so on. This indicates that the people of the Jomon period (3000 BC) ate whales..."

C. HISTORY OF THE TRADITIONAL DIET: JAPANESE AND THE WHALE (http://luna.pos.to/whale/jwa_trad.html)






.

[fasterblaster]

Doesn't sound much different to our indigenous hunting dugongs, turtles etc!

Same principle but different people. I bet someone else in the world is complaining about us hunting these creatures.

[xxgoldxx]

If they can sail or paddle a "traditional" vessel to the southern ocean and back then let them have thier traditional fare..

but how hard can we really complain when we allow "traditional" hunting of dugung and the like with a evinrude, tinny and rifle.....

[Stationair8]

Didn't the government use the A319 out of Hobart for some flights over the whaling fleet last year?

I heard a news item yesterday where somebody asked the PM, to put pressure on the operaters not to do any of these spy flights, she flatly rejected that idea.

[Lodown]

Someone wondered about the effectiveness of aircraft in finding the Sea Shepherd. You don't have to find the protesters. You know where the whaling ship is located. Once there, you need to clear an area where the whaling ship is heading. Much smaller and better defined area.

If I was the aircraft operator though, I'd be concerned for the serviceability of the planes. Anti-abortion, anti-logging, anti-development protesters have already shown to have a radical few that view the cause as being above the worth of a human life.

[Flying Binghi]

IMO the "spy flights" name is a furphy. The flights were legitimate confrontation avoidance surveillance. The legally operating whale farmers are entirely justified in hiring aircraft to find the sea shepherd terrorists so they can avoid them, i.e. so they can avoid the dangerous confrontations that the Ady Gil Captain Pete Behune forecast when he said "Once we engage them, every day we'll be looking to mess them over" .....what did the Oz government do when these words were uttered ? ....:hmm:

By allowing sea shepherd to use Australian ports the Oz government is promoting and assisting known terrorists.

The aircraft company involved in these survalence flights were conducting anti terrorism operations, pure and simple.






.

[FOCX]

Flying Binghi, you should read a little bit further than the first line!

Archeological evidence in the form of whale remains discovered in burial mounds suggests that whales have been consumed in Japan since the Jōmon Period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dmon_Period). Without the means to engage in active whaling, consumption primarily stemmed from stranded whales. The earliest records of hand thrown harpoons date only back to the 12th century.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan#cite_note-jwa-history-7)

If providing links there is not much benefit if you can't see where the article is sourced from. It helps to know where the article originated from.

As to your accusation of the Sea Shepherd being 'known terrorists' :ugh::ugh:
Whoever is operating the flights has every right to, but to call them anti-terrorist ops! Under who's authority would that be?

No one has claimed that the Japs have only just started whaling, the argument is over the commercial nature of it, and the need for it. Let them piss off to their own waters to do it, oh they have all ready, and fished them out!

I don't see how you can compare abs using tinnies and rifles for dugong etc in their OWN country for personal consumption, to factory ships, whale chasers, aircraft and explosive harpoons half way around the world for commercial sale.

[bonvol]

The legally operating whale farmers are entirely justified in hiring aircraft to find the sea shepherd terrorists

They Japs are hardly down there farming these whales ! :mad:

[Hempy]

One man's freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. The Japs would probably be calling most of us terrorists now if they had succeeded in 1942 (well, with the exception of the Quislings, hey Binghi)

[Dark Knight]

terrorism –noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
terrorist
–noun
1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.

2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.

4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

************************************************************ *********



By definition it would appear this succinctly covers the actions of the Sea Shepherd and other anti whaling operatives.


DK

[FOCX]

DK, I'd have to agree, the Japs were so terrified that they cut the Ady Gil in two and continued to spray the ship with water cannon for sometime after. I have yet to see anyone of note to claim they're terrorists and as far as I know they're not on any recognised terrorism list, and not proscribed as such by the UN either.

You shouldn't use a dictionary to do your thinking for you, just apply good old commonsense!

By the way, they're not whaling legally at all. The Federal Court has already made a determination that the whaling is in breach of Australian law, so if anything, the Australian government is allowing them to continue breaking the law.

Terrorists, what a load of puerile BS.

[Dark Knight]

Talking of commonsense, maybe you (FOCX) should check the IWC website where Japan & Australia are both signatories. Japan complies with IWC whaling quotas.

You may not like how the Japanese were able ot achieve this but should you believe in a democratic process that is how it was achieved there.

The Japanese are whaling legally in accordance with the IWC, the world body set up by the countries of the world to monitor, control whaling. Go and read the website.

Commonsense is also sadly lacking here with much of the comment heartstring comment.

Are you suggesting the actions of Sea Shepherd, etc complies with common law or law of the sea??

How would you describe the actions of Sea Shepherd and the other boats??

Are you also going to claim Australia does not partake or offer incentives to other countries to vote according to Australia' wishes??

Australia's courts may have made a determination some whaling may be in breach of Australian Law but World law or courts does not necessarily agree or apply and, regardless of the protestations of Garrett, KRudd, etc, the advice they have received both supports and does not support making an application to a world court.

The advice is heavily weighted in the negative to the effect any application will fail most likely being laughed out of court.

DK

[Brian Abraham]

The Federal Court has already made a determination that the whaling is in breach of Australian law
True, but the trouble is Japan and other countries don't recognise Australia's claim over the territorial waters involved, and Australia has been reluctant to have the claim tested in the event they lost. Full story of the legal position here http://ozelaw.b l o g s p o t.com/2006/07/japanese-whaling-in-australian.html

Remove spaces to access

[FOCX]

I'm well aware that most countries do not recognise our claim to those waters, however as far as Australian law goes that doesn't matter one bit! An Australian court deemed the whaling as illegal. Enforcing that without going to the extremes of gun boat diplomacy is another thing. If you go back to the cod wars the Canadians, I believe, did exactly that. Also Iceland had a run-in with Britian over the same. This resulted in change to international law and the result was an increase to the economic exclusion zone out to the present 200nm (or is it 200kms). That is now being pushed to allow certain underwater land mass structures to extend that even further. See the Russian attempts at trying to prove their claim that they may have rights over large sections of the North Pole. Frankly I couldn't give a **** what the IWC say, it's been corrupted anyway. Let them ruin their own waters, oh, we've pointed out already that they've done that, haven't we.

As to quotas, I haven't claimed that the Japs have exceeded them for whaling, but they got caught out exceeding/cheating on their Southern Bluefin quotas for 5 yrs. I doubt that their is any real verification that can be done with the Jap whaling.

No. no heart bleeding here, just had enough of Northern Hemisphere countries destroying their environment then heading south to do the same. See what EU countries are doing in Africa with fishing rights etc, which is what the Japs/Taiwanese have done in the Pacific, north and south.

Whether or not the Sea Shepherd is acting in accordance with the law of the sea or not doesn't make them terrorists. Are they shooting/bombing anyone? They most harm they'll do is disable a vessel designed for those waters and requiring one of its sister ships to tow it back to port. Claims that they are terrorists is puerile, the best you can do is quote a kids dictionary definition while claiming your opponents are making heart-string comments.

I'm surprised you give a hoot about a World Court, or does it just suit your argument for today?

Maybe they were so scared of the terrorists, that after they sank them they refused to respond to their mayday call and offer assistance. That's Law of the Sea as well, isn't it? But, I'm sure you'll justify that. That ramming had real potential to cost lives.

[FOCX]

DK,

My apologies for making my posts somewhat personal!

This whole argument is purely political, there is no formula for working out the correct answer. I'm aware of all the counter argument, I just don't find any substance behind it, and while always willing to look at another view point I doubt very much I'll be swayed to change my mind.

[Dark Knight]

terrorist
noun:
a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
terrorism
noun:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

One would hardly classify the Oxford & Webster dictionaries as `kid’s dictionaries’

In a court of law there have to be some definitions where to begin and I suggest these would be a reasonable start.

Neither did I suggest I give a hoot about a world court though it and the UN is where Laborites, the ACTU and Fluffies continuously claim protection, where we should go and as the overall protector of the world.

What I did stress is the reason Garrett, KRudd and Co have not instigated proceedings is there is strong advice they will have a very slim chance of success.

Not caring about what the IWC says defeats your total argument or point of view as on the one hand you argue for the point of law of an Australian court, argue for lawful jurisdiction by a world court re the Russians, Iceland, Canadians, etc, but do not appear to accept that 88 countries comprise the membership of the IWC which was set up under the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling which was signed in Washington DC on 2nd December 1946 The purpose of the Convention is to provide for the proper conservation of whale stocks and thus make possible the orderly development of the whaling industry.

As I previously pointed out how this body manages to make decisions about managing the whale population or establishing whaling quotas may be questionable but the final rulings are basically established in a democratic manner.

The Japanese in this instance were acting in accordance with the current quotas and what happened in previous years is now historical the use of which is a diversionary tactic to the current discussion.

Whether or not the Sea Shepherd is acting in accordance with the law of the sea or not doesn't make them terrorists. Are they shooting/bombing anyone? They most harm they'll do is disable a vessel designed for those waters and requiring one of its sister ships to tow it back to port. Oh yes it does! Start by referring again to the definitions of terrorist/terrorism and the reported actions of Sea Shepherd, etc. That is precisely what they are attempting to do; they are using violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims; they are using systematic means of coercion; and by your own admission are attempting `disable a vessel’ and there are no guarantees there will not be loss of vessels or of life. (`That ramming had real potential to cost lives’).

We are either in favour of a democratic system, one which has laws with a judicial system to support this democracy and laws to which we must all be beholden. I am not making an argument for or against whaling or for the whales; my argument is the Japanese have been acting in accordance with decisions made by IWC and have been harassed repeatedly in a manner which have reached a level where the manner of these acts can be considered as acts of terrorism.

How then do you describe the actions of Sea Shepherd and the other boats??


DK

[FOCX]

DK,

You seem to have missed the point. Those actions by Canada and Iceland at the time, no doubt, were against international law of the time, but didn't stop either country from responding at the time in an 'illegal manner' and resulted in the said changes. At no stage did I suggest any support, it just shows how international law changes. I haven't argue the case for it one way or the other. As to Australian law they have been found to have breached it. As to whether or not they are terrorist why have the Japs not taken any legal action against them in an Australian court which would see them not able to transit an Australian port or New Zealand for that matter where most of the ships are flagged. If they took legal action it would deny them a base to work from. Do you see any legal opinion that they are terrorist, no. Your interpretation of the dictionary definition is way to broad and your continued argument about it is just doesn't hold. Why don't you just say it's your opinion it's terrorism. No court and no government has listed them as a terrorist organisation.

Your politics are as I suspected, extreme right wing. NO climate change, left wing conspiracies (UN) to control the world no doubt and a host of others I'm sure.

You miss the point, they are breaking Australian law, whether or not it would make it in the World Court doesn't matter. If they step foot on Australian soil it can be enforced. World Court rulings can and have been ignored in the past.

We'll just have to agree that we will never agree!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

There is a reason KRudd will not take this to the International Maritime Court. It's called Timor Leste!

[Flying Binghi]

Your politics are as I suspected, extreme right wing. NO climate change, left wing conspiracies (UN) to control the world no doubt and a host of others I'm sure.


Panic stations, FOCX has lost the argument and is looking for a distraction...:hmm:

[Flying Binghi]

DK, I'd have to agree, the Japs were so terrified that they cut the Ady Gil in two and continued to spray the ship with water cannon for sometime after. I have yet to see anyone of note to claim they're terrorists and as far as I know they're not on any recognised terrorism list, and not proscribed as such by the UN either.

You shouldn't use a dictionary to do your thinking for you, just apply good old commonsense!

By the way, they're not whaling legally at all. The Federal Court has already made a determination that the whaling is in breach of Australian law, so if anything, the Australian government is allowing them to continue breaking the law.

Terrorists, what a load of puerile BS.


FOCX, lets have a look-see at a couple of your claims.

the Japs were so terrified that they cut the Ady Gil in two

The Ady Gil was not "cut in two"...your coming across as a hysteric FOCX.

...and continued to spray the ship with water cannon for sometime after.

Have a good close look at the videos here http://www.icrwhale.org/eng-index.htm The rear water cannon operator is actually a little inboard. I doubt he would have seen much of the hit at all. Probably heard/felt a load bang and then the Ady Gil pops into view. I'm thinking the rear water cannon operator being mindful of the Ady Gil's captain saying he was going to "mess them over", the AG's prior attempts to disable the SM2 via cables, laser and sundry missiles and possible personal boardings...hell, he justifiably repelled them with max water pressure.









.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

This whole issue is political. If the idiots from the Sea Shephard Society pulled their heads in, this issue would disappear. Sure, keep the IWC involved with direct monitoringing and recoding of the catch to ensure the directive is not exploited.

It would appear from research, the Japanese people consider the harvesting of whales is an activity purely done by ex-public servants of the fisheries industry. The people realise that whale meat is toxic yet is OK to eat on rare ocasions. However, those same people rail against external pressures against perceived traditions.

So, to stop an industry being created....remembering the eating of FUGU nets millions of dollars into the economy and processes upwards of 10,000t a year of deadly puffer fish...I want to eat FUGU but I do not want to die...Culinary russian roulette...get the protests off the air and the leave it to the Japanese people to dictate their own controls. If it is uneconomical to harvest for a very limited market...it will die out. Keep protesting and the Japanese as a community will dig their heals in.

[FOCX]

Dearest Flying Binghi,

Yes, I'm just hysterical, pathetic! Glad to see you learnt to colour in at pre-primary and the use of bold is just outstanding Binghi, are these the equivalent of shouting from the roof tops? I'm certainly glad you decided against becoming a investigative journalist! And here's a better use of smilies :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk: The boat sank, that just about says it all.

I'd suggest you go to today's Australian On-line article about the incident and follow the link to video taken from the Ady Gil. It shows the crew relaxing and chatting about the days events while the SM2 is approaching, it certainly appears to be a deliberate ramming.

It also reassuring to see your critical thinking in action, using a carbon fibre boat to board a steel vessel weighing in at hundreds of tonnes, I don't think so.:yuk:

By the way, have you heard of any the 'scientific reports' from this 'scientific research'. US researchers have stated that the very few reports published are seriously lacking in scientific rigour (WSJ, admittedly a couple of years ago).

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Sea Shephard Society...undertaking controlled acts of sabotage on the high seas...deliberate attempts to disable a ship at sea by the use of heavy ropes. Throwing of acid onto the decks of your target, boarding illegally, use of lasers.(...a thread here on use of same on pilots was considered a criminal act) These attempts are not passive in nature. Use of fast motorised boats to outflank their targets. Use of ship based helicopters to enable location and long distance trailing of said targets. Funded, equipped and highly organised command and control...sounds like a military operation to me.

And then to grumble about this company hiring Australian aircraft to protect themselves from these people...somewhat hypocritical:yuk:

[Dark Knight]

FOCX; Firstly read this: Full story of the legal position here: http://ozelaw.b (http://ozelaw.b/) l o g s p o t.com/2006/07/japanese-whaling-in-australian.html (Remove spaces to access) (Thanks to Brian Abraham)

Accepting this argument and decision of this court that as a matter of Australian law, Japan’s whaling in Australian Antarctic waters is illegal one can see the dilemma the current Australian Government faces.

The government allows Japanese whaling ships (or at least it used to) which understand they are conducting whaling operations in accordance with IWC rulings and legally under International law, to make repairs, provision and fuel in Australian ports.

The government allows Sea Shepherd and ships of this organisation (registered and sailing under the flag of other countries) to make repairs, provision and fuel in Australian ports when the ships and masters of these vessels unequivocal stated aim is to disrupt, stop and destroy the operations of the Japanese whaling operation using tactics of intimidation, coercion, harassment, sabotage and/or terrorism. Not only is this their clearly stated aim they have actively and are visibly pursuing this.

The actions of Sea Shepherd vessels are clearly in contravention of International law and law of the sea.

Therefore, how then is this resolved?

The government pursuit of diplomacy is not working or will only work over many, many years.

Should the claim to the Australian waters be sustainable then it is up to an Australian government to police and protect these waters. How?

The government could refuse right of entry to Australian ports to both parties however, this does not remove the role of upholding the law over actions within Australian waters.

Send in the gunboats to remove who?

The Whalers?

The ships harassing, intimidating, sabotaging ships or operations of ships of another country who believe they are legally conducting whaling operations and are sailing in accordance with the law of the sea?

Removing or interfering with the Whalers could be seen as an act of aggression with serious (international) ramifications.

Removing or interfering with the Sea Shepherd operation could be seen as upholding the role of law.

There is no way this Australian government led by PM KRudd is going to take this matter to an International court or undertake any policing action. All we will see is a continuation of pith & whiffle, spin & procrastination with expensive inaction. This government has clearly demonstrated its inability or unwillingness to protect Australia, Australians or its Australian Territorial rights by its very inaction of preventing illegal entrants/Aliens entering.

`You miss the point, they are breaking Australian law, whether or not it would make it in the World Court doesn't matter. If they step foot on Australian soil it can be enforced. World Court rulings can and have been ignored in the past.’I have not missed the point at all: Continuing with diplomacy and court action takes time however, you cannot claim for support and protection under law whether it is International or Australian law, whilst then allowing actions which are an anathema to common decency and role of law.

The question is what is your considered, constructive solution?

DK

[VH-XXX]

New footage on heraldsun.com.au today of the 5 mins before the Ady Gil was rammed.

Taken on-board the Ady Gil, Clearly shows the SS guys casually sitting there talking (engines not moving them) amongst themselves having a laugh. They start pointing their audio device at the Japs who are a reasonable distance away. Shortly after the Japs change course, head towards them and ram them.

Pretty simple and akin to attempted murder in anyone's book.

[blackhand]

Shortly after the Japs change course, head towards them and ram them.

Pretty simple and akin to attempted murder in anyone's book.

I have watched the Jap video and this one together. Doesn't look like the same incident to me.:confused:

[VH-XXX]

Suspect you've drunk too many beers and or not watched the correct video.

This video goes for 5 minutes before the event and clearly shows the Japs heading towards them from quite a distance away. There's no trailing lines or any quick moves, they are just sitting there not moving which is what they said they were doing back on the day of the collision.

Never fear though boat lovers, there'll be a new Ady Gil replacement on the water by the end of the year. They have the moulds to make it, they just need to get it organised.

[Flying Binghi]

This video goes for 5 minutes before the event and clearly shows the Japs heading towards them from quite a distance away. There's no trailing lines or any quick moves, they are just sitting there not moving which is what they said they were doing back on the day of the collision.


Here's a link to the 3 minute video VH-XXX is referencing -
Note staged camera angles, crew constantly looking over shoulder to ensure SM2 is where they want it, and M.V. Bob Barker and film crew placed in position....
YouTube - Ady Gil rammed by Shonan Maru No. 2, view from Ady Gil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBdp0zJiQdE)


Many videos here of the days activities of the Ady Gil -
Note many uses by Ady Gil crew of lasers and trailing propellor jamming lines...
http://www.icrwhale.org/eng-index.htm


Sooo, the Ady Gil after a day of not achieving anything. i.e. NO dramatic footage for the reality TV crew. What to do.....Hmmm...:hmm:






.

[VH-XXX]

Film Crew in place? (try $100 USB handycam maybe)

It is BLATANTLY obvious from the footage that they are staging a non-violent protest, are sitting there idle, firing their noise cannon (big deal) when they are deliberately rammed by the Japanese.

I'll bet anything Mr Binghi that you also believe in conpiracy theories like the moon landing not really happening and 911 being a conspiracy thorough the US government to reduce the number of US citizens or some crap.

[Dark Knight]

What is interesting watching videos from the above mentioned site is the wake & prop wake of the Ady Gill just prior to, during and following the collision.

My boating experience would lead me to believe the evidence shows the AG accelerating to ensure it either passed in front of the ship or to be deliberately in its path. (or maybe to slip past just in time hoping the ropes would foul the other vessels props and they misjudged?)

However, others with far more maritime experience than I will be employed to make qualified judgments as will video experts with sufficient expertise to expose time lines and editing of tapes.

Sea Shepherd run serious credibility risks should they be doctoring the evidence.

DK

[desmotronic]

binghi what is a ship at sea required to do when on a collision course with another vessel to starboard???
:mad:

[blackhand]

binghi what is a ship at sea required to do when on a collision course with another vessel to starboard???

Get out the camera??:ok:

[FOCX]

DK, I'm not even going to waste my time now responding to your request after reading your last post. You and Flying Binghi have to be twins, love children offspring of some low gene-pool trolls! Both of you need to head off and get your eyes checked :8:8:8:8 or put your glasses on!

Getting towed in a sea biscuit doesn't count as maritime experience.

Last post as it's the same as doing this.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[bonvol]

binghi what is a ship at sea required to do when on a collision course with another vessel to starboard???

Of course the answer to that is fatal to the Japanese argument.

The Ady Gil had right of way and if anything the Japanese vessel should have altered course to port. Instead they altered course to starboard.

[Flying Binghi]

DK, I'm not even going to waste my time now responding to your request after reading your last post. You and Flying Binghi have to be twins, love children offspring of some low gene-pool trolls! Both of you need to head off and get your eyes checked or put your glasses on!

Getting towed in a sea biscuit doesn't count as maritime experience.

Last post as it's the same as doing this

FOCX, could i recomend some herbal treatment for your problem...valerian perhaps....
Hysteria - many herbs can calm the nerves and help with this problem. (http://www.digherbs.com/hysteria.html)






.

[nick2007]

Ah, this is starting to read like a typical aircraft crash thread. A pile of armchair experts hypothesising on a subject that they aren't really qualified to hypothesise about, consequently descending into an argument ad hominem...

I think it's time to leave this topic alone.

[Stationair8]

Save the whales, eat pussy.

[Flying Binghi]

Here's a compilation of some of the sea shepherd terrorist organizations attacks -

YouTube - ???????(The Ady Gil)??? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q3wQ0Ux8TI#t=1m17s)







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[Flying Binghi]

...aren't really qualified to hypothesise about...

Lets keep nick2007 happy with some comments from an old salt....:)

...retired naval commander Norman MacMillan ....the Ady Gil was at fault.
Although sea law dictates that any vessel on the starboard, or right-hand side, of a ship has right of way, Mr MacMillan said he believed the Ady Gil left it too late to avoid a collision with the whaling ship Shonan Maru No 2,
..."It appears that the Ady Gil was putting itself deliberately in front of the whale catcher to try and make it alter course,"...

Sympathy cash 'pours in' for loss of Ady Gil | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/sympathy-cash-pours-in-for-loss-of-ady-gil/story-e6frfku0-1225818122162)







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[LeadSled]

Flying B,

As several other posters have pointed out, there was small scale coastal whaling going going back into the mist of history, as there was with almost any country with a coastline and whales.

As I thought I made clear, I referred to industrial scale whaling. I suggest you look up any of the many good books written about the Allied occupation of Japan post WW11.

Sadly, the uncontrolled harvesting of krill probably poses a greater danger to whales than Japanese "research", but there are no dramatic pictures of blood and gore, so no media interest.

But a whale dying of starvation still ends up a dead whale.

Tootle pip!!

[Lodown]

Likewise a pod of killer whales taking 4 hours to kill a large whale by chomping out the pectoral fin muscles, taking out the tail fluke, laying over the blowhole to drown the beast, and then eating just the tongue and leaving the rest, still results in a dead whale.