View Full Version : Gatwick Zone
3rd Jan 2010, 14:42
In reference to the current 1:500:000th CAA chart, were is the main zone transits for Gatwick? East and West of GY/GE respectively or can it be done via the overhead (Traffic permitting and a phone call to the tower)
Due to start my NPPL soon, and was wondering If It can be done considering LONDON/CITY CTR is ILLEGAL to fly over in a single.
3rd Jan 2010, 14:55
LGW used to offer overhead transits in the good ol days, but i haven't managed to get one in the last 5 years..
I'm not sure it's 'illegal' to fly over LCY in a single, just Rule 5(3)(c) to comply with, as i guess it's probably a congested area. Doesn't seem to prevent the annual airshow there though:ok:
Why not get your NPPL first and then worry about the difficult bits?:E
3rd Jan 2010, 15:22
Overhead Gatwick via the active threshold is still possible and will be given as well as any other transit.
Overhead LCY in a single is contentious particularly if going up the Lea Valley. I regularly use to go that way in a single but tend to only do so in a twin these days, not that IMHO I really had any reservations about doing so in a single as long as you are prepared to get your feet wet if the worse comes to the worse.
Sir George Cayley
3rd Jan 2010, 16:47
Transits by Helos seem fairly commonplace, which reinforces my feeling that ATCOs don't really understand the difference and think an S76 is more 'controllable' than say an SR22.
As for LCY - don't get me started. Not only are they not keen on overhead transits, try asking to land there in a single:eek: You'd think you had suggested treason.
But, when they want a few a/c for an open day - boot - foot - other :ugh:
A disingenuous operator when it comes to SEPs in my opinion.
Sir George Cayley
3rd Jan 2010, 18:12
Zone transits are possible for Gatwick. In fact I got one this morning. You obviously stand more chance if the place is a bit quiet.
3rd Jan 2010, 18:30
As for LCY - don't get me started. Not only are they not keen on overhead transits, try asking to land there in a single You'd think you had suggested treason.
I've landed at LCY 3 times in a single:ok:
As for LGW, I still believe it's easier to say "no" than "yes" these days.. It was commonplace in ye good old days. Nothing has changed, the runway is still in the same place, maybe a bit busier, but even in a permit to fly aircraft with a handheld, I was never, ever refused a transit Redhill to Shoreham. In the 10 yrs I have worked there, I've only ever seen one single overhead and that was taking photographs... S/E helicopters on the other hand...
3rd Jan 2010, 19:25
Thanks Guys for the replies. If anyone remembers my post a while ago about flying over London and R158/R159 that it was Highly Illegal, becuase of ANO Rule 5 or something like that, in a SEP.
Even though the airspace is Class D 1500-2500ft, SFC-1500ft being Twin Engine Helicopters only.
Now If Im correct Heathrow is 2500ft Class A, so If I were to fly over London It would be 1000ft Seperation Minima from Class A being 1500ft. the Upper limit for R158/R159.
So what makes It Illegal, If I'm 1500ft clear of buildings and 1000ft clear of Class A.
I know bugger all so please correct me If I'm wrong, I'm starting my NPPL shortly and one thing I want to do it is fly through Gatwick's airspace and route over my Home town.
Now onto Gatwick - Cricket23, I've seen a youtube video of an overhead thanks to the nice TWR controller, but I have heard off zone transits. What VRPs are these normally to/from and are they east and west of the threshold such as GY and GE?
3rd Jan 2010, 20:45
HA, The London TMA begins at 2500 ft. The LHR control zone is from the surface, so you wouldn't be avoiding it.
You would also need to comply with the "land clear" requirement:
(d) The land clear rule
An aircraft flying over a congested area of a city, town or settlement shall not fly below such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the congested area in the event of a power unit failure.
4th Jan 2010, 06:43
What is also worth noting, and often forgotten about the "Land clear rule" is that you cannot use playing fields, golf courses and the like as your nominated landing area if it does all go quiet.
As this CAA safety sense poster states :-
GA Safety Poster: Crossing Large Built Up Areas | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2355)
There are some circumstances where you really would have no choice, on approach/climb out of plenty of airfields for example, a park or playing field would be your only option if a return to the airfield was not possible.
By the way chaps, I think you'll find that the "GY" and the "GE" went off to the non-directional hangar in the sky some time ago.
4th Jan 2010, 16:51
So It's affectively a no go?
I thought that aswell - however they are still on the Current CAA Chart :hmm:
So does anyone know the Standard Routings Transiting the LGW zone?
4th Jan 2010, 17:47
There are no 'Standard Routings' for GA through the Gatwick Zone. Plan on avoidance, but call Approach on the day, you may be lucky but they are a busy IFR aiport.
The current CAA chart is almost one year out of date. The new chart will also be obsolete the moment it is published.
I know it is a pain in the ar*e but you need to keep pace with NOTAMS and chart amendments if you want to stay out of trouble.
Nobody said it would be easy!
4th Jan 2010, 21:24
Heathrow Airport. re your question to me, it's as Cessnapete says, except as I was taking off from Redhill we communicated initally with them who obtained the Gatwick clearance for us.
5th Jan 2010, 17:06
HeathrowAirport, perhaps you can illuminate me as to the difference between 'illegal' and 'Highly Illegal'?
5th Jan 2010, 18:15
Just to add to previous replies on this.
I've regularly been given VFR transits overhead Gatwick when returning to Redhill; although I don't ask if its clearly very busy on frequency as its probably a waste of time for everyone concerned. Usually you end up doing a few orbits whilst waiting for the crossing clearance - but the view is always good.
The other routing I've had is up the eastern side of the zone, remaining east of East Grinstead as a bit of a shortcut from the MAY area going back to Redhill.
Nothing but a big :D for the Gatwick controllers, they've always seemed very friendly to GA based on my (albeit slightly limited) experience.
6th Jan 2010, 10:07
......and another thing, ......... don't forget the listening squawk !
dial this in for a few minutes before initial call up, especially if you are close to the zone boundary. Expect that there will be a delay before any crossing clearance would be issued, due to ,IIRC , co-ordination between the LGW App controller ( Swanwick ) and Twr ( on airport) for traffic separation.
My experience is that mid afternoon is a good time to request and obtain a crossing.
Transponder Code .............Gatwick / Thames 0012
Solent / Bournemouth also will be implementing a similar listening squawk from 28th Jan 2010...........see .... FLY ON TRACK (http://www.flyontrack.co.uk/content/)
6th Jan 2010, 17:01
A visit to Valance strip gets you about as close as you can get. ATC were very helpfull. On departure you even have to contact Gatwick ground. Good fun. The photo was taken climbing out from Valance strip, turning just in front of the tower to head north.