Flight Training in NZ

[JamieK]

Dear all,

I´m currently 16 years old, living in Holland. I have two more years of school to do so when I´m finished with school I will 18 years old. I´m keen to be a pilot and already obtained my microlight license (NPPL) in the UK (which will be valid next month, when I turn 17)

This is the deal: My family wil be moving to New Zealand in two/three years time. What will be the best strategy for me to follow? Obtain my commercial license here in Holland (expensive) or do it in New Zealand? I don't want to fly in Europe since I would like to live in New Zealand (or Asia/pacific).

I find it really hard to make a decison here, my ultimate dream would be to fly for Air New Zealand, though I'm aware that this would take a lot of time and experience.

Any information and reccomendations would be higly appreciated,
Kind Regards

[seneca208]

JamieK,

As you say, training in the UK can often be expensive due to weather, traffic and other problems that can not be evaded. You also say you have no desire to fly in the UK, therefore there is probably no reason for you to get a JAA CPL.

I'd say wait until you get to NZ and just stay with the Microlights. That will keep you keen long enough until you step of the plane in NZ.

In saying that, do Air New Zealand only employ New Zealand Citizens? I had a feeling they do, but I guess you'll be eligible for that.

[Downburst]

When you get to New Zealand check out CTC Aviation in New Zealand. They are a daughter company of the UK CTC Aviation and train to European airline standard. As far as I know they even run approved JAA training too. I know people who are now flying with Easyjet who trained there.

[Downburst]

At the moment I am doing a job in New Zealand. I can assure everyone - there are no jobs here and Air New Zealand takes people from their braches (like Eagle Air). Aspiring Kiwi pilots all try to get a job in Oz.

[c100driver]

In saying that, do Air New Zealand only employ New Zealand Citizens? I had a feeling they do, but I guess you'll be eligible for that.


Air New Zealand employs people with the right to live and work in New Zealand, i.e. New Zealand and Aussie citizens plus those with New Zealand resident status.

The job market in NZ is very very small, but with student loans available for aviation flying training the number of commercial pilots produced each year is very large, i.e. it is not going to get better anytime soon.

[JamieK]

Thanks everybody, really helpfull!

So the best thing to do would be to get my CPL in New Zealand and try to build up hours there or maybe in Australia? Because when I do my CPL here in Holland it would just be unneccesary? If Air NZ only recruites from the regional ones like Eagle Air and Air Nelson, how hard is it to find a job there? I presume you have to build up hours but where would you do that..Instructing, Scenic flying, is that easy to get into?

Thanks,
JamieK

[c100driver]

JamieK I have highlighted the problem again for you. That is not to say it is impossible it is just very difficult which is why many kiwi pilots try their luck in Aussie and Africa.

The job market in NZ is very very small, but with student loans available for aviation flying training the number of commercial pilots produced each year is very large, i.e. it is not going to get better anytime soon.

Instructing is possible but limited usually to the school you started with, it is rare to get an instructing job at another organization. Scenic type work is even harder.

Air NZ does not limit employment from only the link carriers, though DE to the jet airline from outside is likely to reduce in the future.

Last but not least if the desire is strong and you have the will to succeed you will make it into a job flying, it will be hard work but the outcome will be sweeter when you get that first job.

[cutter2]

Keep doing what you are doing at the moment. When you get to NZ, look at all options, some Aero Clubs run very good flight training schools along with the bigger operators. For what its worth theres only one operator to stay away from ,a little angry English chap in NZTG,:ok:

[AutopilotEngage]

theres only one operator to stay away from ,a little angry English chap in NZTG,http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Rubbish, nothing but pleasant experiences with him.

If Air NZ only recruites from the regional ones like Eagle Air and Air Nelson, how hard is it to find a job there? I presume you have to build up hours but where would you do that..Instructing, Scenic flying, is that easy to get into?

Nothing is easy to get into but you're right about the career path. Most people in Air Nelson/Mt Cook/Eagle would have done instructing for 2 to 3 years before being accepted. However this was in the past few years and there has been little to no movement lately.

Skies look grey but there's always blue somewhere. Set your mind to it and you'll make it.

[JamieK]

Thanks everybody for your tips, that really helped me.
I think a good plan for me would be to do my flight training in New Zealand, and after that grab every oppurtunity to just fly (Australia, Africa, Pacific, etc.) and build up hours.

Thanks,
JamieK

[JamieK]

I was now looking at the following: Doing my bachelor in Aviation Managament at Massey University in Auckland and after that do my ATPL at Massey. This way I have something to fall back on.. Some universities also offer a combined 3-year course where you do Aviation Mangament and your ATPL at the same time. Is this a good studie? I found it really interesting, what about career options?

Thanks!

[27/09]

You would be better to do another more worthwhile degree and do you flying somewhere else. Massey and one other rather large provider have very slick marketing, however there are other flight training organisations that provide equal or better flight training for less money.

[Tarq57]

What town/city are your parents (and presumably, you) going to be moving to?
Or is that immaterial?

[PegasusFury99]

Sorry to dissapoint a bright young hopeful - BUT - lets look at the long term view. What is the point of getting a NZ licence if the job options are limited ? / opportunities are few and far between / promotion to mainline and jets is even longer.

35yrs ago I had the same aspirations as this young man - but there were NO jobs available in NZ(and never have been since) So I packed bags, got a one way ticket to the cold side and a few years and 4000hrs later had a jet command. I have flown in every continent except S America. Yes, home country is NZ but family have been with me enjoying life outside the 'fishbowl'.

A NZ licence is worth NOTHING overseas. If you are going to spend a mortgage on getting a licence, then get a JAA/JAR licence. I did and it allows me to fly 25% of the aircaft in the western world - UK/Dutch/German/French/Danish- all scandinavian/Italian/Irish- (Ryanair God forbid - ONLY when you really have to - take 6mths off is better)/ie. Most of Europe - with minimal hassle. A 6mth European summer contract will net more than enough to be comfortable in NZ.

Ask yourself - 'Where do I want to be when I am 55?'
Answer that question first, then decide how to get there. Make sure you start with the WIDEST possible options. Sadly this is NOT with a NZ licence.

I know its expensive to learn to fly in Europe - I live there and see at first hand the cost of life there. BUT - I still say, get a JAA/JAR licence.

I look forward to the torrent of opinions on this subject.

[waren9]

Pegasus

Sure, you've moved on and seen the light. Very good. NZ (and Australia, for that matter) are indeed fish bowls compared to whats out there.

This young fellow (and he's not alone) has set his sights on living and working in NZ. He and the others could do a lot worse.

When it comes to a career and its progression I absolutely agree with what you've said.

But for some, their career and the money they earn over a lifetime is not as high in their priorities as perhaps some others. If it were, NZ would be uninhabited (except for the retired and very wealthy). We each place quite different values on other instrinsic and immeasurable qualities that living in NZ brings that is not available anywhere else.

Where will you be at 55? You may or may not be looking to retire back home in NZ. Either way, you did not enjoy the best years of your life in one of the best parts of the world.

What price that?

W9

[JamieK]

Thanks everybody, gives me a lot to think about. So doing your ATPL at Massey isn't ideal. But what about that studie: Aviation Management, is that a good studie in case there is no work as a pilot, and you still want to work in the aviation industrie?

So you say the best thing to do would be: get your JAA ATPL in Europe and work at a European carrier? But I would like to be in the Asia/Pacific region since I don't want to be at the other side of the world when my family is in NZ. Are there any carriers in the Asia/Pacific region who hire ab-initio pilots? Maybe the Singapore Flying College is a good idea?

Thanks for your help,
JamieK

[Downburst]

JamieK, here is a suggestion. Investigate to learn in Australia. Schools can and will assist with a student visa. In Australia schools need accreditation to enroll students from overseas. To get that they need certain facilities and they need to have staff qualified not just as flight instructors but to have formal additional qualifications to teach. This is not the case in NZ. I thing the training is better in Australia.

[glekichi]

What makes you say that Downburst?

I have worked as an instructor in both countries and beg to differ.

I know a couple of other instructors that have also worked in both that agree with me.

[27/09]

Downburst

You need to get your facts straight.

It is a requirement for New Zealand schools to be accredited to enrol foreign students. All New Zealand Instructors must successfully complete an Instructiuonal Techniques course. From JamieK posts it seems he will be resident in New Zealand so needing to enroll as a foreign student is not an issue.

You are entitled to think the training in Australia is better, I am not so arrogant to say it is better in either country. In my experience the standard of training is directly related to the individuals conducting that training, not where they come from.

However few years ago I flew with an Australian pilot who was demonstrating an aircraft and thru the course of his work had flown extensively with a wide range of pilots in Australia and New Zealand. He told me that he was very impressed by the pilots he flew with in New Zealand.