Prank SELCAL call?

[MainDude]

Today we received a SELCAL call on HF, just after we advanced the thrust levers for takeoff. As we were only doing about 30kt, we aborted - who knows, it could have been a bomb threat or something.

We checked with the company & Stockholm Radio, but neither of them had initiated a call to our code.

Has anyone else experienced this type of thing before? Could it have been a prank call? Is this something that can easily be done?

[Boroda]

All might have been, but I have expierenced such unreasoned SELCALs many times on VHF/HF. It is something with false call, because no message followed after reply to call.

[Rainboe]

You rejected for a selcal call? I could understand if you had someone knocking on your window, but not a selcal call!

All you need is those 4 tones coming consecutively on the HF to set the thing off. They were either strange sounds on the HF, or a mistaken code transmitted, or a code misidentified by your HF box. They were not a prank- I doubt whether anyone is daft enough to transmit various codes on the HF in the hope someone, somewhere might think it was a call for them.

[lomapaseo]

You rejected for a selcal call? I could understand if you had someone knocking on your window, but not a selcal call!


Most concise, informative response of the year and only a few days left:ok:

[Spooky 2]

30Kts? I would have done the same thing. No harm, no foul and like the guys said, it might have been important although you normally expect that kind of message to come from ATC.

[BOAC]

Could be your oceanic clearance - you would need to stop so you could both write it down - it is dangerous for both pilots to write things down at more than 30kts on the runway.

[hetfield]

@BOAC

Oh, if it was an A340 there would have been time enough to stone hammer the clearence.

[dixi188]

Rainboe,

Only two tones but 4 letters!

However, always a good idea to have HF of for take off.

Safe flying,

Happy new year.

[Spooky 2]

DIX188. I have never heard any reason one would want to have the HF in an OFF position during takeoff and especially if you plan to use it during the flight. Enlighten me on this procedure, if it is in fact a common practice, call me clueless. I've only been doing this for 45 years now and I can recall Constellations with Radio Operator stations. Just pulling your leg a little but I'm sure even old dogs can still learn something. :ok:

[Herod]

Many years ago there was reputedly a pilot on one of the military transport fleets who was blessed with perfect pitch. The story went that he would listen to a SELCAL check and then, once the receiving aircraft had gone onto SELCAL watch, he would just transmit those tones. Apparently many long hours flogging across the pond were enlivened by the frustrated BA etc constantly answering their calls.

[NSEU]

What sort of aircraft was it? Selcal alerts (or parts thereof) are inhibited on some aircraft at takeoff thrust.

Rgds.
NSEU

[Spooky 2]

Not sure that any SELCAL alerts are inhibited and even then it would be at a much higher speed.

[mm43]

@MainDude

It would be useful to know where you were taking off from, your primary HF frequency, and at what time UTC. The general area would do. More likely you received the SELCAL co-assigned to another aircraft presumably operating a semi-hemisphere away and transmitted by a similarly remote HF station - more likely around sunrise / sunset.

With the available letters, there are somewhat less than 11k of unique SELCALs.

On the other-hand, how often have you been SELCAL'd in error!

mm43

[737ngpilot]

12 tone SECAL is predicated on the usual geographical area of the position of aircraft,so it is possible that an airplane with the same 12 tone SECAL was in your geographical area.Also more than one airplane can have the same SELCAL.
What you are describing has happened to me

[18-Wheeler]

I haven't seen it mentioned above, but with one airline I flew for we used to takeoff with the SELCAL switches in the off position and the HF's on. In the other airline we had the SELCAL's in the usual positions but the HF's off below 10,000'.
This eliminated the chance of getting a spurious SELCAL gong.

[Itswindyout]

Cos it might have been the dinner gong, we always anounce dinner in our residence with the gong.

If it was Queens Birthday, then rogue gongs are quite common.

Seriously does anyone still use SELCAL on VHF.


Hat already in hand.

windy.

[Dan Winterland]

If the HF is tuned to a radio station playing music, the SELCAL can be triggered. One airframe I used to fly alway had the SELCAL triggered by the music that preceeded the 'pips' on the BBC world service as the music onviously had two successive tones that were identical to the aircraft's call tones. The SELCAL would always trigger about 15 seconds to every whole hour if the world service was tuned.

[dixi188]

Spooky 2.

As a fairly old Freight Dog I am also always willing to learn from others.

You have time over me.

I have 40 years in aviation but only 20 as Flight Crew, and a lowly F/E at that.

However I was told many years ago that HF off for Take Off was good practice for the very reason in post no. 1.

Obviously if you can inhibit Selcal for T.O. then that is good enough, but our old A300s dont have this option. (selecting off freq would be another option)

Fly safe and Happy New Year.

[Willit Run]

Believe it or not; There are more than one airplane flying with the same selcal code!!!

[Rainboe]

One is usually too busy setting up a departure under time pressure to have time to even consider what HF frequency is on- selcal is automatically covering HF. I have had at least a couple of incidents of HF selcal going off during takeoff- we just looked at each other and cancelled it. It is not a reject issue and I wouldn't dream of doing so.

Every departure is emergency briefed. Reject up to 80kts for problems is more likely than above 80kts where specific items are reeled off. Faults should be confirmed or backed up by other indications. A take-off reject for a selcal call, even if I had previously checked selcal with a ground station, is not on my list of priorities at all- I would not do it. That is why I was in disagreement. Sorry, but in my opinion, it is daft- nothing less.

[hector]

One is usually too busy setting up a departure under time pressure to have time to even consider what HF frequency is on

Rainboe, check Part A, 8.3.2.6.1

"Preflight checks on all flights, HF radios are to be tuned....etc.":E

However, I do agree with you. There is seldom time.

[Spooky 2]

Rainboe, for starters I have never had a SELCAL go off during a takeoff so my personal experience is certainly less than yours. My comments were directed at something less than 30kts and nothing more. Approaching 80kts might be a different story depending on circumstances surrounding the departure and it's certainly not a briefing item on any of my departures. Once TOGA has engaged it would certainly affect how this would be handled.

Cheers:ok:

[18-Wheeler]

One is usually too busy setting up a departure under time pressure to have time to even consider what HF frequency is on- selcal is automatically covering HF

Of course there's time - part of the panel setup and only takes a couple of seconds.

[MainDude]

I agree with Rainboe, stopping for an HF call is not usually a factor to consider.

Our circumstances were different though,
- we were the only aircraft there (no others in approach either),
- long runway, engines had not fully spooled up yet,
- as an operator we don't normally get HF calls, and when... in the past they have been for serious reasons.
- below 70kts the TO Inhibit warning/(call suppression) feature isn't yet active so by design we're open to receive new information & have to time to act on it either way.

Thanks for all the responses so far. The main question I had was whether other guys were also experiencing this kind of thing, and whether the trend is increasing...

Best wishes for the festive season

[MainDude]

Quote:
One is usually too busy setting up a departure under time pressure to have time to even consider what HF frequency is on- selcal is automatically covering HF

Of course there's time - part of the panel setup and only takes a couple of seconds.

On our aircraft it's fully automatic & there's nothing to set.

[Rainboe]

We must remember a lot of people use these forums to learn experience and develop their skills. It's important to stress the lessons about making valid reject decisions. I have had selcal go off on takeoff roll- it was just an eyebrow raising event with no thought to reject. Via HF, you are not going to receive any information in those seconds that is of any importance, and students must understand that a reject is a fairly serious event, even at low speed, and such a decision must be taken sensibly. A reject creates a hazard and stoppage on the runway requiring extensive ATC intervention, and some airports require an automatic runway inspection as they don't understand what has caused it.

Selcal alerts are not unusual, even when apparently nobody is calling you. Maybe it is a slip of a radio operators hand, or just spurious warnings. Perhaps we should have it disabled automatically when the wheels are down and not compressed.

[punchus]

Certain 320/321 with a specific model of AMU in the Comms set up will generate spurious selcals if box 2 has an atis frequency set in the standby window. Don't ask me how it's avionics black magic stuff. Just deselect the atis freq on box 2 and it's fine.

[hector]

Of course there's time - part of the panel setup and only takes a couple of seconds.

Yes, to dial up a frequency only takes a couple of seconds but if you do it "by the book" you would then call Stockholm Radio for example to check transmission/reception, get a Selcal check and if there are more than one box, it takes a little longer.

[18-Wheeler]

Yes, to dial up a frequency only takes a couple of seconds but if you do it "by the book" you would then call Stockholm Radio for example to check transmission/reception, get a Selcal check and if there are more than one box, it takes a little longer.

That's not what I meant - I meant that it's not difficult to make sure you either have the SELCAL not selected to HF, the HF's off, or the HF's on a non-used frequency. Takes scant seconds.

[MainDude]

Certain 320/321 with a specific model of AMU in the Comms set up will generate spurious selcals if box 2 has an atis frequency set in the standby window. Don't ask me how it's avionics black magic stuff. Just deselect the atis freq on box 2 and it's fine.

This was our case. Is this "deviation from original design objectives" documented anywhere, or is it something you've noticed?

[slamer.]

Im with Rainboe on this one. An RTO for a selcal is crazy.

[punchus]

Main Dude: to answer your question you would need to get your engineering department to confirm with airbus if the amu's used in your comms set up are prone to spurious selcals. I believe the problem may have already been modded out. I have had the same on numerous occasions regularly over the bay of biscay.
Hope this helps.

[Surrey Towers]

BOAC wins! :ugh:

[ACSfirstfail]

On the L1011, as part of the scan checks, we select the selcal's to vhf 1 or 2. Teaching is you are less likely to get a spurious selcal on vhf. Better still, certain of our frames have a VHF 3 selcal position and we don't have a third vhf radio so we select that for take-off or landing.

[Rainboe]

I'm not sure I know what to make of this advice:Rainboe, check Part A, 8.3.2.6.1

"Preflight checks on all flights, HF radios are to be tuned....etc.

Most planes I have ever flown have selcal armed and ready to go and no ability to switch off. It doesn't matter what you tune your HF to, you can still have a spurious warning. If tuning ensured that you would not have a spurious alert, I could understand the advice!

[Jumbo Driver]

Way back in the 70s (was it the VC10?), I seem to recall part of the Before T/O Check actually being to select SELCAL away from HF (e.g. to VHF) precisely to minimise the chances of such a distracting and usually spurious call during the departure.

Oh, and yes, I have had a SELCAL chime during the take-off roll ... and NO I would never reject a take-off for a SELCAL chime ...


JD
:)

[FLCH]

Believe it or not; There are more than one airplane flying with the same selcal code!!!

In the same fleet no less !

I have answered for a sister ship several times with the same SELCAL code :*

[mnttech]

Only two tones but 4 letters!
That's incorrect, each letter is a different tone, so you hear two tones together, then the other two tones together, making it sound like just 2 tones.

[hector]

Rainboe,

I'm not sure I know what to make of this advice:

I never give advice. :rolleyes:

Following your earlier reference to time pressure and selection of HF radios, I was merely drawing your attention, with tongue in cheek, to the relevant section in Part A. The procedure, as laid down, (and which I don't think I have ever observed anyone doing!) requires some minutes to complete.

I do not necessarily agree with it.

[tvrao]

Interesting discussion on SELCAL. I am surprised the system provided alert on HF system when a VHF frequency was selected.Normally the ATIS is on VHF frequency.
The SELCAL decoder inside AMU should have provided alert on VHF if spurious tones randomly coincided with selcode of that aircraft.
In case of Boeing aircrafts SELCAL decoder is a separate box, it is not part of AMU.
You can get indications similar to SELCAL(call light on ACP and chime) when you receive a message from ground station on ACARS . ACARS uses Center VHF (third VHF on Boeing aircraft) .

[ampclamp]

Doubt it was a prank.Likely as stated that other aircraft can have the same code.
Beyond that, there are selcal test sets where you can select the code for the aircraft and test your selcal without calling on HF where in some places you may experience a birthday or 2 waiting for some station to wake up.

So the selcal may have been local and possibly accidental.