Who can do type endorsements?

[BlinkC182]

Hi folks,
I have the intial multi and looking at getting a Baron or 310 endorsement shortly but just wondering the requirements for the person giving the endorsement? Obvious that they have to be endorsed themselves on type, but do they need META, etc? I remember reading it in the regs once but can't seem to find it.:ugh:.
Thanks.

[Fonz121]

Generally speaking yes, they need to be an instructor with META. For the types you have mentioned it should be fairly easy to find someone suitable. You can get approvals to do type endorsements if you are not an instructor but can't remember the exact details off the top of my head.

[Zoomy]

Pretty sure they can, I could be corrected though by those more senior.:}

[inver TED]

The person giving the endorsement usually must hold a current instructor rating with META, a type endorsement and 10 hours Comand on type.

In addition, as a general rule, they must be working for a flying school that also has those types on the AOC.

A Grade 1 Instructor with META may conduct the endorsement without a flying school, as a private operation, but this is dependant on the personal veiws of the local CASA FOI's and the instructors willingness to sign you off without the legal/insurance backing of working under an AOC.

Also Check captains working under a CAR 217 organisation may have the privleges without having an instructor rating.

And lastly independent ATO's or CASA FOI's may aswell.

I dont think I have missed anyone. for more info see CAO part 40, CAR 5.23 and the 'Flight Crew Licensing Procedures Manual' (its on the CASA website)

Hope this helps

Ted

[manymak]

A Grade 1 Instructor with META may conduct the endorsement without a flying school, as a private operation

Are you sure that only applies to Gr1's? I'm certain any META instructor can conduct endorsements as a private operation?

[manymak]

grade 2 can give conversion training.. i.e not initials

I'm sure you'll find that any instructor with a META can do any training on multi-engine aircraft. Of course if IFR training a Gr 2 or 3 must have instrument training approval.

[Unhinged]

AOCs/FOIs/flying schools and personal opinions have nothing to do with it, and Grade 1's have no special privileges in this regard. Nor does "initials" make any difference.

Firstly, CAR 2 defines it as a private operation.

CAR 2 (7) (d): An aircraft that is flying or operating for the purpose of, or in the course of:
(vii) conversion training for the purpose of endorsement of an additional type or category of aircraft in a pilot licence;
shall be taken to be employed in private operations.

Secondly, under CAR 5.21 CASA can approve any aeroplane or helicopter pilot to give conversion training, but CAO 40.1.7 also gives the privilege to all Grades of instructor, as long as they have META and 10 hours pic on type.

CAO 40.1.7 Section 9.1: A Grade 3 flight instructor may:
(bb) if he or she meets the requirements of paragraph 9.7, give flying training for the issue of an aircraft endorsement for a multi-engine aeroplane;

Section 9.7 specifies META and 10 hours in command on type.

Thirdly, the CAR definition of "conversion training" in this regard makes no distinction between initial and subsequent multi-engine endorsements.
CAR 5.01 (1): "aeroplane conversion training means training undertaken by the holder of an aeroplane pilot licence for the purpose of qualifying for an aircraft endorsement for an aeroplane."

I really do wish people would actually read the rules before offering unsubstantiated and incorrect advice.

[601]

Any pilot who has the approval of CASA.

Certain Grades of Instructors have this approval through the CAO.

A private pilot could granted approval by CASA to give conversion training. The approval would stipulate the qualifications and experience required.

[Josh Cox]

Any instructor, 1, 2 or 3 with META can do a multi engine endorsement, including intial multi, as long as:

* The instructor has META,
* Endorsed on type with 10 hours in command,
* the student holds a licence: PPL, CPL or ATPL.

In the same way any instructor with a C208 endorsement can do a C208 endorsements for other licenced Pilots.

A flying School only need be involved if the student does not hold a licence.

CAR 206 is also worth a read, private ops.

[FJ44]

Nothing to say a Grd 3 can't do initial twin as a PVT op, the aircraft must have full dual controls for an initial though, I.E. Dual brakes.

Off topic, if a Grd 3 has an IF training approval they can do IF training with a flying school as well, isn't only for Grd 1&2's.

The hardest part doing a PVT endorsement is getting the sticky strip, either from an ATO, flying school or CASA who will charge you for their time as usual but if you have all the proper paperwork filled out it shouldn't be a problem, I just rather not paid the $75 or what ever they charge for 2mins of their time.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Nothing to say a Grd 3 can't do initial twin as a PVT op, the aircraft must have full dual controls for an initial though, I.E. Dual brakes.


The FOI's at Tamworth will slap you down for that one and pretty sure Bankstown will too.

Stby will see if I could be bothered digging out references on Xmas eve :rolleyes: :hmm:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Ok... I am wrong.

CAR 206 provides that you must have an AOC to conduct, amongst other things:

flying training, other than conversion training

CAR 206(2) then provides:

(2) In this regulation:
aircraft endorsement has the same meaning as in regulation 5.01.
conversion training means flying training for the purpose of qualifying for the issue of an aircraft endorsement.


I think there is only one way to logically interpret that: you can conduct type endorsement training without an AOC.

[Josh Cox]

Jeezuz,

A grade 3 does not need supervision for this type of training, read the regs....

I am a grade 3, have been for 8 or 9 years, absolutley no ab initio experience, perhaps you want to work out what the supervision is for, ab initio.......


Any instructor, 1, 2 or 3 with META can do a multi engine endorsement, including intial multi, as long as:

* The instructor has META,
* Endorsed on type with 10 hours in command,
* the student holds a licence: PPL, CPL or ATPL.

In the same way any instructor with a C208 endorsement can do a C208 endorsements for other licenced Pilots.

A flying School only need be involved if the student does not hold a licence.

[Xcel]

deleted my posts...

need to learn to read and not post when drinking...

woot

cheers yall i can go deliver me some space shuttle endo's now on my shiny new grade 3 licence... its ok i got META :}

[Lancair70]

Xcel, as long as you have 10hrs PIC of the space shuttle ! :confused: