Routes to License

[drivez]

It's come time that I start to look at universities and other options and was just wondering if anyone could give me a little advice.

I'm currently in sixth form, and have decided that I would like to become a pilot. However there are many different options for my training once I have completed my A levels.

Currently the option I am leaning most toward is the degree entry. I am looking at Kingston University as my first option and hope to do the BSc(Hons) in Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training. This course is run through Cabair, I was wondering if anyone on here has any experience of this course and how well it intergrates with Cabair?

Another option would be to go through the normal flight school route.

It would be a great help if someone could give me a little advice on a) The quality of training at different flight schools, i.e. which are the most respected, and run the best courses, and b) Which of the two options, degree or flight school, would be most valuable to me when trying to get a job.

Any replies much appreciated.

[12Watt Tim]

I can see no purpose to the aviation-studies degree. If you want a degree, do a proper one. If you want to be a pilot and don't specially want a degree do an independent ATPL. Especially if the degree means having anything to do with Cabair.

[demomonkey]

I agree with Tim, having an aviation related degree is unlikely to be a substantial advantage during flight training or seeking employment. If you're set on doing a degree prior to starting flight training, I would consider doing a standard degree programme. This will have the advantage of giving you a wider range of options in the future but still show your academic abilities.

Good luck! :ok:

[BigFenton]

Out of interest..would airlines not look at all CV's and favour those with some sort of degree? So it could help doing the course rather than spend 3 years doing something your not that interested in?

[12Watt Tim]

A few airlines might, I suppose. I know of none in Europe that asks for a degree for pilots though. For some education to A level or equivalent is required (i.e. passes in exams normally taken at about age 18), although I know people in some of the largest airlines in the UK who left school at 16. I worked for a small operator where I was the only person with a degree, counting the crews, ops and admin staff and the directors.

If there is nothing drivez is interested in then why not just skip the degree? To improve the chances of getting a flying job the money saved would be far better spent on flying of some sort.

[drivez]

Thanks, I mean I would be quite happy to go straight into flight school, but my parents really want me to go to university and I also would quite like a degree so I've got something to fall back on incase I was ever to lose my medical.

Thanks for the replies anyway, big help.

[XL319]

I did a law degree, but doing the ATPL's at the moment. I felt this would give me something to fall back on should I find it difficult finding that pilots job. I wouldn't like to do the ATPL and a related degree for fear of being out of work.

[student88]

Just to support Tim here - don't go anywhere near one of those Aviation Management degrees. You're better off spending 3 years working as Cabin Crew rather than studying a course that's been put together in a sloppy seconds style. At least you'll be earning money to lessen your debt. If you so chose to do a degree, do something you can fall back on, something you can make a profession out of, no way related to aviation.

BigFenton - I doubt it. Yeah it shows you've got some sort of academic ability - however when you're applying to airlines the fact you've passed your ATPLs show your academic ability. They're more concerned about how well you fly and that you're not a total :mad:.

Flight schools? IMO stay away from the big 4 ( FTE, CTC, OAA and Cabair). Indirectly these guys have contributed to degrading our future terms and conditions. I think they need to pay, one way or another. I say let's stage a revolt against them.

[BigFenton]

Thanks for the reply Student88.

I went to an open day for the degree course and one of the students made the point that when you apply for jobs the airlines will have 2 piles of CV's those with degrees and one with those without. Does this sound true to anyone with recruitment experience?

However for someone wanting to become a pilot one day and also wanting to go to uni the degree with ATPL training does sound ideal as you end up with your frozen ATPL and a degree.

From reading this forum the wise advice seems to be, do a totally different degree not airline related as a backup. But that's tough advice to follow for someone who only wants to be a pilot.

[student88]

I went to an open day for the degree course and one of the students made the point that when you apply for jobs the airlines will have 2 piles of CV's those with degrees and one with those without.

To be honest that's the bull :mad: they say to you to make you join the course. Silimar to the BS the big FTOs say to you to make you join up. Don't believe the hype.

If anything, their pile is ordered in level of experience, hours etc. I know what you mean about it being tough advice to follow. At the end of the day only you can make the decision based upon thorough research. Just remember: don't jump into anything quickly, don't pay up front and listen to those who offer you advice - just be careful what advice you act upon.

[lpokijuhyt]

Today it doesn't matter if you have a degree or any ability to fly an aircraft. You just need a fat wallet. Sounds absurd, but it's the truth. There may be two piles of Cvs as you mentioned, but the CV piles are grouped according to ability to pay for a Type Rating vs. those who can't afford to buy the right seat of an aircraft. Conditions will never return to what they were several years ago.

[student88]

A bit absurd, but I get your point.

[12Watt Tim]

Listen to Student88 and lpokijuhyt. they speak wisely. A degree is not going to help significantly, and a trivial degree like aviation studies/management least of all.

Are your parents trying to run your life? If you fail your medical you can do a degree then - if you have a good job and insurance you will also have the means to fund it. If you want to do a degree, and have interest in a subject, then go ahead. Don't do it for your parents or career if you want to be a pilot!

[Poeli]

Hmm I'm currently getting my B1/B2 engineer licences (with part66), does this mean that I won't have any benefits from it when I do my modular training?

[Groundloop]

If you want a degree, do a proper one.

rather than studying a course that's been put together in a sloppy seconds style.

and a trivial degree like aviation studies/management least of all.

Do you people ACTUALLY know the content of these degree courses? Have you looked at them in detail. Some of these "aviation-related" courses have been well put together.

Also, a degree in a particular field of study does not necessarily restrict your employment chances in other areas. One of the most important factors in chosing a degree is that it is in a subject that really interests you. Spending three years studying something that you have no interest in whatsoever will hardly ever result in a good result.

Are your parents trying to run your life?

They could be paying for it!

[12Watt Tim]

Well put together? From what? Like many modern 'degrees' it is not a degree at all, just an extended diploma which teaches nothing that can't be learnt by working in the field to which it relates. What research can possibly be done on aviation studies?

If there is not a proper degree whose subject interests you, then why do a degree at all? There are not enough graduate jobs anyway, and most of those don't really need graduates.

[BigFenton]

From what I heard on the open day a lot of the students qualifying now are working in check-in as there are no pilot jobs. So maybe that shows that the degree won't help in times likes this. They are just trying to get in with an airline doing a job anyone could do without a degree.

But does that mean it is not worth doing? For someone who wants to go to uni and to become a pilot?

In an ideal world you would do some other degree and train for your license later? But that could then take 5 years time and you could end up with a degree you may never use?

While on the open day the course leader said they are inviting the airlines in to show them what they are doing and tell them all about the degree.

[philc1983]

Hi Drivez,

My advice would definitely be go to University first and get a degree in a subject that you are fairly interested in. If you are maths/ science/engineering inclined, a qualification in either of those fields could only stand to be a positive for an aviation career, and will equip you well should you suffer medical problems or experience a period of unemployment in the future. I am aware that it is not necessary to have one but personally that is what I would do.

Any other questions don't hesitate to PM me.

Good luck.

[12Watt Tim]

Jambone

Why?

Nothing to do with rushed course. If anything padded. The objection is in that one word. I cannot see any reason for doing this.

[philc1983]

It's showing capacity to learn at a high level, not so complicated that you need be a genius. A maths degree was only a suggestion, it could be a history or business studies degree it makes little difference if the ultimate aim is to be a pilot but I am personally rather sceptic of the value of a vocational "airline" degree course. Some do have merit but in comparison I think we can all judge which is more beneficial.

[12Watt Tim]

Jambone

Oh, dear. I think you are going to be disappointed. These aviation degrees are marketing b_s_....they offer new knowledge related to the subject area.So does a job in the aviation business. One of them costs money, the other pays you money. One is considered a bit of a joke at least in the parts of the industry I know. The other will give you the experience and contacts to get you respect anywhere in the industry. Contacts mean a lot in the small world that is aviation.

[Whirlygig]

Allow me please to draw an analogy ...

When I went into accountancy training with a degree in physics, the general consensus amongst the Top 8 firms (with one of whom I trained) was that they specifically did not want trainees who had accountancy degrees; they wanted students who had maths, sciences, English, any but Accountancy, Finance and Business Studies.

The reasoning was that Accountancy degrees offered nothing in relation to real life finance; it was all wacky theories and current concepts - nothing that was actually useful to the real world of Companies Acts and double-entry bookkeeping.

Cheers

Whirls